Ohio School Levy vote compared to Florida (not Ohio) -- and get this

[KaliTracy]

supposedly some people showed up to sign the poll book, pretended to vote on ONE ISSUE and turned in a blank ballot -- and this is seen as "normal" ?? I wish I had $$ to survey the people who voted (it was about 26,000) to see if that were really true. (Which begs the question.... why isn't there a "no vote for this issue" option on ballots? Is there a reason? Seems to me it would clear up some of this "undervote" crap)


http://www.pulsejournal.com/news/content/news/stories/2005/02/23/pj0224levyfinal.html

Lakota issue takes on Florida flavor
Lawyers circle as ballot questions arise; recount coming


Wednesday, February 23, 2005

"The final run for the Feb. 8 special election brought more suspense than closure for Lakota School District.

"And as in Dade County, Fla., four years ago, Butler County is taking a closer look at the ballots themselves.

"Official results reported Tuesday by the Butler County Board of Elections revealed Lakota’s Issue 2 failed by five votes, 13,182 votes (49.99 percent) for and 13,187 votes (50.01 percent) against.

"A recount is automatically conducted for an issue with a margin of less than one-half of one percent. Board of elections director Robert Mosketti said the board will certify the final run to the secretary of state today. The recount must be performed within 10 days of certification."

[emlev]

1. link not working--where's that link repair spray? n/t

[saltpoint]

2. I'm off-subject here, but can I ask how that statue of Jesus --

-- is going along I-75 in (I believe) Butler County? It's on the east side of the interstate somewhere or other around the exit for (I think) Monroe, Ohio.

I drove past it a couple months ago and this huge statue of Jesus was lying in chunks in front of a church's parking lot. Or something like that.

Anyone have an update?

[KaliTracy]

6. it's doing fine -- reaching up to the heavens and all that... see here

I pass it every day as I go to and from work. It's actually in Warren County.

[saltpoint]

10. Thank you for showing that photo!

Wow, is that a tacky statue or what?

How much more would it have cost to commission one like the one in Rio de Janeiro?

Thank you for the extra steps, KaliTracy.

[KaliTracy]

13. not a problem -- there's a thread about it in the Ohio Forum - go

to this link if you are interested -- they have some other photos there, too...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=172&topic_id=4666&mesg_id=4666

[saltpoint]

14. Thanks, KaliTracy. That's value-added DU posting at --

-- its finest.

Kind thanks.

[emlev]

11. Even Jesus is up to his navel in dirt these days! n/t

[Wilms]

3. "Link Repair" didn't work! So I used "Link Reconstituter".

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:C04bGiI-8o8J:www.pulsejournal.com/hp/content/news/stories/2005/02/23/pj0224levyfinal.html++%22Lakota+issue+takes+on+Florida+flavor%22+site:http://www.pulsejournal.com&hl=en

[KaliTracy]

5. thanks wilms! *smile* n/t

[Wilms]

15. Notice that the link in post 3 to google's cache is now dead

I tried to google again, and this time there are no matches at all.

Not the first time that's happened to me.

[eomer]

4. Butler County must be using "Recount Magic" spray

From the article:

To conduct the recount, Mosketti said election staff would randomly choose 3 percent of the 26,369 Lakota votes and count them by hand. They would then run the ballots through the computer, repeating the process if the two counts did not match. If a second hand-computer count does not match, the board would have to hand count every ballot cast from Lakota’s 66 precincts. Mosketti said that has never happened in his experience.

<Emphasis added.>

Somehow they never, ever have a single case of a chad that looks one way to a human counter but another way to the machine. Recount Magic for sure. Magically, the machine is able to apply the chad rule (two corners detached) even though it doesn't have any mechanism for doing so.

The 2004 presidential recount in Butler County went just as "magically":

December 16, 2004:
Preliminary Report by Green Party Observer

The recount ran very smoothly today, with only a few glitches that did not affect the outcome, which was that the manual count of 3% of the precincts matched the machine count. By now the counting of the remaining ballots by machine is probably complete.

A few of us will return tomorrow to inspect the poll signature books and absentee and provisional ballots for the same precincts counted today. So chances are good that we will finish sometime tomorrow.

http://www.votecobb.org/recount/ohio_reports/counties/butler.php


It is apparently standard operating procedure in this Ohio county to fudge the recount every time.

[KaliTracy]

7. Definitely magic. They are doing the "recount" today -- for the levy.

It will be interesting to see how many extra votes they will find out of 26,000.

[emlev]

8. Okay, since you seem to be into this spray, idea...

Toss this around a little with me. (We could start a thread about it.)

I think we need a way for people in this country to show they think the election was bogus (I'm not talking about the school levy here), something that's visible and countable but doesn't take a lot of effort on the part of the couch potatoes of this country. What can we count on people in the U.S. to do? Buy stuff. So I think we need to design a product people can buy that means, "I think the election was stolen and it's not okay with me." Somethink like "electoral hygiene spray," or "election in a box" (the last election was bought, now you can buy one for yourself). It would work best if it has cult "pet rock" sort of appeal. Sales could be tracked easily and become an objective measure of how much the awareness of the stolen election is growing. I think this would work best if the item people bought was something they used publicly, so others would see it, ask about it, get their own.

What do you think about this concept, and do you have ideas? If I start a thread, will you brainstorm with me to keep it kicked?

[KaliTracy]

9. I think it's a riot! Something more than a bumper sticker -- something

that people use every day.... but what? Could we do something with Canned Air that has a label? hmmmm Or Air Freshener?

I like the election in a box idea, too (also have access to a laser engraving machine....) My lunch hour is over -- but if you start a new thread, I'll pitch in to keep it visible.

[mod mom]

12. Em, was just gonna contact you on this, what do you think of:

A scale of justice, unbalanced with identical squares with X's through them (like a vote symbol). You mentioned the other day about having image pop up all over the country, and people questioning what it means. Later down the road, the text : DE-VOTED AMERICAN would appear. PS I can't remember who came up with the DE-VOTED AMERICAN, but was someone on USE. Not a product, but a suggestion on the symbol idea.

[KaliTracy]

16. Recount found No Change in Vote Count Still Lost by FIVE votes

I just find it ironic that in this almost total Red district (I live here, sparse Kerry backing) -- that they are having this legal fight over the issue that means something to them -- and guess what? They were allowed a random 3 percent of the ballots counted before being fed into machines -- AND the local media talked about this rule the days before the recount!

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050305/NEWS01/303050002

"HAMILTON - After six hours of lawyers, election officials and witnesses discussing disputed punch cards, more than 26,000 ballots for the Lakota school levy were recounted Friday - and the school district lost again.

"The margin was exactly the same as last month's official vote tally - just five votes.

"The recount, witnessed by attorneys and representatives from pro- and anti-levy camps at the Butler County Board of Elections, might have ended the drama surrounding the Feb. 8 election, unless Lakota school officials or levy supporters decide to take legal action.
<snip>

"Powell said that despite Lakota attorneys' earlier claims that some poll workers had given at least six pro-levy voters improper instructions leading to their provisional ballots being nullified, she does not favor the district pursuing legal action to overturn the election. She added, however, that other school board members might not agree."

[eomer]

17. KaliTracy, do you know more details about the recount?

They were allowed a random 3 percent of the ballots counted before being fed into machines

Were you a witness to the recount?

Did they do the random selection in public and then proceed immediately to the recount without an opportunity to manipulate the stacks of cards?

I can't believe that the 3% hand and machine recounts would match so often unless they are doing something extraordinary such as working over the cards to make sure there are no hanging chads, using a cheat sheet to force the machine count to match the results of the hand count or some such device.

You make a good point about the discussion and publicity over the randomness of the 3% selection in this case (in contrast with the presidential recount) but the end result was the same - no need to do a full hand recount.

[KaliTracy]

18. eomer, no, all I know is what is in the paper, and the little they've had

on the public radio station I listen to. This was a pretty big increase (for a 200K house taxes would go up $500.00).

It took all afternoon for a little over 26,000 ballots. They had troubles with the provisional ballots,stating that poll workers gave wrong instructions to 6 pro-levy voters.

I just found another article in the local paper -- the 12 extra votes were from provisional ballots that weren't counted before.

"A visual examination by three attorneys representing Lakota, the Yes Lakota campaign and the campaign opposition, found six of those votes to be “mirror images.” Those are ballots made by voters who put ballots in upside-down, making their punches in the wrong place. If reversed, the intended vote can be counted according to a mandate from the secretary of state issued October 2004.

"“Those ballots will be remade because the voter’s intent is clear,” BOE deputy director Betty McGary said. “The reason this is being found today is due to the fact we’re for the first time by request examining every undervote ballot.”

"That request came from Lakota attorneys from Bricker & Eckler law firm who asked to visually examine the 89 undervotes. Those are ballots on which holes are not clearly punched. "

<snip>
"Before the recount ended, Lakota board president Joan Powell had pointed to districts where votes did not balance by her measure. For now, she is satisfied but she will go over the data again later."

They also attributed 5 additional votes to chads that disengaged from the ballots when fed through machines again.

http://www.pulsejournal.com/hp/content/news/stories/2005/03/04/pj0304recount.html