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Hitler never abandoned the cloak of legality.

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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 09:27 PM
Original message
Hitler never abandoned the cloak of legality.
The Republicans are beside themselves about a statement Sen. Byrd made today about other Republican Senators and thier furor Bush about their attempt to kill the filabuster concerning the judicial nominations. I only have Right-wing radio here in Cleveland and Hugh Hewitt was freakin out about this statement by Sen Byrd.

"Hitler never abandoned the cloak of legality. He recognized the enormous psychological value of having the law on his side," he said.

All I can say is, "It's about time!"

If these judges get approved, our chances for justice are slim to none. Forget about election reform. Should these "Nazi's" be granted judicial power, any court case would get thrown out on appeal. They wouldn't need to manipulate the lower courts as long as they are assured that the highest court in the land is now in thier pocket.

I support and applaud this statement by Senator Byrd and I am writing him a letter to that effect.

This is his response form if you wish to do the same.
http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_email.html
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Way to go. n/t
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick
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ryan_cats Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Way to go Byrd.
Your statement about only having right wing radio around you reminds of my last birthday. My brother gave me limbaugh's book, how to buy Oxycontin online no, it was "See, I told you So" for my birthday. I'm going to give him Fahrenheight 9/11 and Bowling for Columbine on his birthday.

Gee, I haven't had the time to read his book.


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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here is the text of his speech today, C-Span 2 had the replay
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Thanks for the link. -- (n/t)
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dzika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Byrd was mentioned on CNN
They also show some conservative blogs that were attacking him.



Video in Real Media format(2 minutes)
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks for the video. n/t
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. The same thing was true for Stalin
The Stalinist purges went to great lengths to matain a facade of legality - too.
All legal.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Was this carried on MSM
I didn't hear a word about this.
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No idea
I may just be thinking about some Russian history I read ages ago.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Byrd must have hit a sore spot...
Some of these guys might be getting a conscience and with Bryd rubbing salt in the wound, I'm sure there is going to be allot of damage control to get the Party in line.....

Here's my favorite parts:
<snip>

We may have a duty to legislate, but we also have a duty to inform and deliberate. In the past quarter century we have seen a phenomenal growth in the power of the executive branch. If this continues at such a fast pace, our system of checks and balances will be destroyed. One of the main bulwarks against this growing power is free debate in the Senate . . . So long as there is free debate, men of courage and understanding will rise to defend against potential dictators. . .The Senate today is one place where, no matter what else may exist, there is still a chance to be heard, an opportunity to speak, the duty to examine, and the obligation to protect. It is one of the few refuges of democracy. Minorities have an illustrious past, full of suffering, torture, smear, and even death. Jesus Christ was killed by a majority; Columbus was smeared; and Christians have been tortured. Had the United States Senate existed during those trying times, I am sure these people would have found an advocate. Nowhere else can any political, social, or religious group, finding itself under sustained attack, receive a better refuge.
<snip>

But witness how men with motives and a majority can manipulate law to cruel and unjust ends. Historian Alan Bullock writes that Hitler’s dictatorship rested on the constitutional foundation of a single law, the Enabling Law. Hitler needed a two-thirds vote to pass that law, and he cajoled his opposition in the Reichstag to support it. Bullock writes that “Hitler was prepared to promise anything to get his bill through, with the appearances of legality preserved intact.” And he succeeded.

Hitler’s originality lay in his realization that effective revolutions, in modern conditions, are carried out with, and not against, the power of the State: the correct order of events was first to secure access to that power and then begin his revolution. Hitler never abandoned the cloak of legality; he recognized the enormous psychological value of having the law on his side. Instead, he turned the law inside out and made illegality legal.

<snip>

For the temporary gain of a hand-full of “out of the mainstream” judges, some in the Senate are ready to callously incinerate each Senator’s right of extended debate. Note that I said each Senator. For the damage will devastate not just the minority party. It will cripple the ability of each member to do what each was sent here to do – – represent the people of his or her state. Without the filibuster or the threat of extended debate, there exists no leverage with which to bargain for the offering of an amendment. All force to effect compromise between the two political parties is lost. Demands for hearings can languish. The President can simply rule, almost by Executive Order if his party controls both houses of Congress, and Majority Rule reins supreme. In such a world, the Minority is crushed; the power of dissenting views diminished; and freedom of speech attenuated. The uniquely American concept of the independent individual, asserting his or her own views, proclaiming personal dignity through the courage of free speech will, forever, have been blighted. And the American spirit, that stubborn, feisty, contrarian, and glorious urge to loudly disagree, and proclaim, despite all opposition, what is honest and true, will be sorely manacled.


I sent him a E-mail, I hope everyone does...this gets my vote for greatest page...
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. And . . . how about his saying, "Yes, we believe in Majority rule, but
we thrive because the minority can challenge, agitate, and question. We must never become a nation cowed by fear, sheeplike in our submission to the power of any majority demanding absolute control."

"Generations of men and women have lived, fought and died for the right to map their own destiny, think their own thoughts, and speak their minds. If we start, here, in this Senate, to chip away at that essential mark of freedom--here of all places, in a body designed to guarantee the power of even a single individual through the device of extended debate--we are on the road to refuting the Preamble to our own Constitution and the very principles upon which it rests."

_________________________________

RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman said he found "Senator Byrd's invocation of Hitler's Germany in discussing the duty of U.S.Senators to advise and provide consent on judicial nominees...reprehensible and beyond the pale." Wonder why? Is it possible that Byrd's speech was too close to the truth?

:shrug:
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Actually I really liked the whole speech, but we are only
allowed 4 paragraphs to post...
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. I will fax him my praise. n/t
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. And nominated!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Come on now, he has explained this over and over again.
He made a mistake when he was a young man. He has apologized and explained why he was involved in the clan. His explanations and apology are good enough for me and his words and actions over the past decades have shown his true character. If he is fooling me, fine, this is the sort of facade I prefer.
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sea dee Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. he still uses racist words
Didn't he use the N word as recently as 1999 though?
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Why don't you tell us?
If you have proof, you should post it. Otherwise it's just innuendo.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. "...as recently as 1999...."? How about March 5, 2001?
Edited on Wed Mar-02-05 04:09 AM by Petrushka
Yep, he used the (uh) "N word", saying:
"There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time . . . if you want to use that word."
What, you might ask, was West Virginia's Honorable Senator Byrd talking about? What, exactly, did he mean when he said "white niggers"? And who did he have in mind when he said it? In what context did he say it? Etc., etc.

Ah, yes! You might have asked those questions; but you weren't really looking for answers, were you, sea dee? (tsk!)

For anyone else who doesn't know it all already, here's the URL for an article titled, "Just Who WAS the 'White Nigger' Senator Byrd Was Thinking About?":

http://www.bannerofliberty.com/OS3-01MQC/3-5-2001.1.html
And here's another URL, for an article Re: definition(s) of"white niggers":
http://hnn.us/articles/1220.html
Have a nice day!

Returned to edit and add: Oops! Almost forgot! Sea dee said that Byrd "...still uses racist words." Please provide documentation, sea dee . . . otherwise I might think you're simply a misguided Freeper's diminishing echo.

:eyes:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Robert Byrd has obviously tried to grow up, and to transcend the...
...the bad aspects of the culture he was born into. I admire him for that, and I would say, given his speeches and votes especially in the last few years--on the Iraq war (the Iraq war resolution totally illegal and unconstitutional, he said at the time) and the Bush Cartel--I'd say he has done some really hard and righteous thinking about our government and our culture. I have found his speeches on Bush Cartel items--like the recent nominations of Rice and Gonzales--extraordinarily impressive. The man is brilliant, and he is right on.

In that interview, he said something to the effect that we've solved the race issue, we've all improved, and we now talk about it too much and make it into a bigger thing than it is. This is a very typical attitude of white persons, and is not necessarily racist--more likely ignorant. I had this attitude myself until a black friend told me about all the places in this country that she is afraid to travel to, for fear of her life. Black people know about them. Whites don't know about them--because we're privileged and accepted in most places. So I think he's wrong about that. Racism is far from solved. I was also struck by Greg Palast's article, "Kerry won--just count the votes at the back of the bus!" He estimates that 3 million black and minority votes were suppressed in the 2004 election using the ballot "spoilage" excuse in a highly discriminatory way.

I DO think that racism and economic oppression need to be studied and understood together. Because the rich obviously use race to divide and conquer and keep poor people poor--and use it more viciously against blacks than anyone else.

And now, with Bush Cartel cultivation of people like Kenneth Blackwell, we're seeing a real nasty twist of events--a few blacks permitted to acquire wealth and power as the front men--n this incredibly vicious, greedy, bloodthirsty regime--in order to oppress the multitude. It's not a unique strategy, but it's sure been magnified, and well-planned, by the BushCons. They're now working on black male ministers to paint "liberals" as immoral--i.e., on issues of a woman's right to choose abortion, and gay rights--using federal money as the bribe, according to Maxine Waters.

And I heard something on the Senate floor during the Rice and Gonzales debates that is still burning my ears. I heard Orrin Hatch (and others) accuse the DEMOCRATS of RACISM for opposing these poor, abused, rags to riches Bush nominees, an African-American woman and an Hispanic!

And then I SAW something that shocked the hell out of me: Andrew Young (former aide of ML King, since risen to UN ambassador) with several black women in tow (one of them C. Dolores Tucker) in a C-Span interview, echoing Orrin Hatch--saying Rice should be approved BECAUSE she's an African-American woman.

My mouth fell open. Risen so high, to fall so low, was my thought. Cozying up to the Bush Cartel.

Ah, me. The BushCons are masters at corrupting people. We'd be well to keep that in mind.

As to language, I've heard black people use "nigger" as a term almost of affection--meaning, I gather, "Hello, fellow slave! Brother in oppression!" It has multiple meanings--not just restricted to a person of low cultural and moral values (as the article contends). It also has this meaning of an oppressed person, a fellow slave--not at all low, inherently, but rather pushed around, abused and exploited.

"Girl" used to be a sore point word with grown women--a word used to demean women. But I now hear it used sometimes, among women, as a term of affection, meaning something comparable to "nigger" (in a friendly greeting among poor blacks). Also, "gal."

"Nigger" is a LOT touchier, though, because the forms of oppression by those who used it (or use it) as a word of contempt are far worse, in the modern era, than the forms of oppression against woman--including hideous lynchings and other kinds of torture and murder in living memory, as well as the ugliest forms of segregation ("whites only" drinking fountains, etc.).

To be a "gal" or "girl" just means that you're a femme and only interested in painting your fingernails and snagging a husband (although the oppressions of a limited life, limited career, and in some cases abuse or rape have, in the past, underpinned this mildly demeaning terminology) . To be a "nigger," on the other hand--if the word is used by bigoted whites--means you are fair game to be hunted and murdered. And this is WHY the word is such a touchy one, and is mostly forbidden today.

To come back round to Byrd and his "white nigger" remark, I think it's really a stretch to conclude that he meant Bill Clinton. Those two statements are very far apart in the interview. And, reading it, I just thought: Criminy, he's a very old man, give him a break. So what if he has some nasty epithets rattling around in his brain! Maybe I wouldn't think this if he hadn't made such wonderful speeches against Bush.

Anyway, who knows what he meant? It's not possible to tell. And he is a man who loves language. He is NOT your typical, bland, boring, sounds-like-a-TV-commercial, poofy-haired politician. He's real. He speaks his mind in a way that few politicians do. His speeches reveal a highly principled man whom no one can intimidate.

I think his remark about Hitler and the legal cover for Nazism, in relation to the Bush Cartel, is the most truthful and penetrating thing that has been said about this regime by anyone.

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Trish1168 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. Good for him
He's a fighter and I like that. Older folks sometimes don't know how to be PC, so his racist remarks, while not appropriate.....at least I can better understand it in someone who grew up in a different time. The older relatives in my husbands family were like that, and I just figure its too ingrained in them to change. Yet, they aren't bad people (definitely not hateful....they just don't know many minorities and aren't used to being PC).

So...I like the guy for his revolutionary spirit and his outspokeness. I like that he called Bush what he is.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. It's amazing how often we see this analogy. nt
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