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Ohio Voters Challenging Election Results Drop Lawsuit

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TruthBeTold22 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:07 PM
Original message
Ohio Voters Challenging Election Results Drop Lawsuit
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:08 PM by TruthBeTold22
Wow...how about this?

http://www.nbc4i.com/politics/4071567/detail.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The voters challenging the presidential election results in the Ohio Supreme Court asked to drop their lawsuit Tuesday, saying congressional certification of the electoral votes last week and the upcoming inauguration render the case moot.

Citing fraud, lawyers representing 37 voters on Nov. 2 had asked the court to examine several problems with voting procedures in the hopes of overturning President Bush's victory in the state.

The election turned on Ohio's 20 electoral college votes, and not until preliminary results were finally available early on the morning of Nov. 3 did Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry concede.

Chief Justice Thomas Moyer of the state Supreme Court must still rule on the motion to dismiss the case, although he is expected to go along with the request.

Without giving specifics, attorney Cliff Arnebeck said challenges of the results would continue in state or federal courts. But he conceded that there was nothing available now to try to prevent Bush's inauguration.

"We are not quitting, we are going on to any other forum that's available and we intend to pursue those avenues aggressively," Arnebeck said.
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Crud........I'd say something worse but my New Years Resolution is to
stop swearing.

This is awful.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. I'll do it for you
God damn motherfucking piece of shit asswad shitstorm of hellfire!!!

:evilgrin:
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Twas to be expected.
Nonetheless, it is very sad news, but it does make the lawsuit moot given last week and next week's events...
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. OMG Has this been verified? nt
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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. but.. but..
"Arnebeck is a brillian lawyer".

"He must have some iron-clad proof that he is not revealing yet".

"Arnebeck has a secret strategy".

What a grandstanding, show-off, incompetent failure of a lawsuit. Starting from filing late, continuing with deliberately pissing off the judge and compounding with lack of any proof of the allegations. (and don't tell me about "discovery" - fraud cases are not allowed the same "fishing" leeway).

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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Boy...
how little you know.

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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Are you saying
that the Arnebeck lawsuit was not a flub? We have been constantly told, very cryptically, that Arnebeck has this brilliant strategy that only looks like clumsy incompetence. Is this still the party line?
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. it might depend on what your party is
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. Arnebeck is brilliant...
But the court stymied every effort at discovery. The defendants would not allow themselves to be deposed. Every effor was made to stop this case. They ran the clock out...Now...Cliff will pursue another avenue.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Arnebeck has my vote.
I've talked to dozens of people involved on the "good side" and even a few on the "bad side" of this effort. I can't vouch for his legal filings because I haven't read them, but I can tell you that he is intelligent and has the kind of curious, open mind that one needs in this endeavor.

With Andy working with him -- ha, double trouble for the bad side.

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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. PS Andy -- so, how was your morning?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Andy is this true? nt
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KingoftheJungle Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. well all knew it was going to happen
and now we have proof that Moyers continually ruled in favor of himself and Bush to the point of the case being thrown out due to stalled court proceedings. This only helps further cases.
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bemis12 Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yeah, it's a GOOD THING
Right..............
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not surprising...
I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is that the suit was worded in such a way as to specifically challenge OH's electoral votes, which is a moot point now. Arnebeck makes it very clear that the issue will continue to be pursued "aggressively."
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. And Cliff...
is very agressive.

Let me put it this way everyone. I was only supposed to be here in Ohio till the lawsuit was completed one way or the other. I was asked this morning to "stay on a while".

I am not saying what...just that there is more coming down the pipe. Do not be discouraged. I have a lot more evidence to gather...so there you have it...and remember patience is a virtue.

Andy
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. It is true everyone...they are dropping this lawsuit.
but something else is waiting in the wings.

There was no remedy available now. Look for the press release a bit later today.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Thank God for you Andy
Thanks for keeping us posted.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Thanks, Andy, and for the info about press release later today.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Great. Will be watching for the latest announcement.
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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Andy in the meantime
I would die of suspense... but what's death of one more leftie (love your posts)
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Hey Andy, has anyone told you today that they love you?
If not, let me be the first - "I love you" - if they have, let me join in the sentiment - "I love you" :loveya:

Folks that post reasonable, rational posts that contain tidbits of what is to come make my day and earn my love and respect. You, sir, have both! :hug:
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Thanks Andy.....
Sending love your way

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. it's obvious from the statement, they are pursuing other courts
OH state court was a waste of time anyway!!!
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. Andy, thanks for keeping us informed...
and all your hard work. I believe it will pay off. And you are right - patience is a virtue.

All good things come to those who wait (and work their asses off).
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hmm...
Why drop the lawsuit? I know that it obviously can't change 1/20 inauguration, but that shouldn't be the deciding factor. I am confused :crazy:
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. There is still a federal lawsuit in play.
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:26 PM by flpoljunkie
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TruthBeTold22 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Federal Suit
Wasn't the federal suit only about the how Ohio conducted the recount? Weren't they just using it to prod Blackwell to complete the recount in time to use the OSC case to deny Bush the 20 electoral votes on 1/6??

Maybe I misread it.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. CM'ON - THIS IS **GOOD** NEWS
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:16 PM by garybeck
Read what Arnebeck is saying at the end, it's going to continue AGRESSIVELY.

I've been saying all along, the OHio supreme court was a waste of time.

The sooner he gets out of the Ohio state courts the better. If he continues in federal court, he can now introduce more evidence in other states, which was what was KILLING the ohio case. Because it was limited to OHIO, nothing about Diebold, Clint Curtis, Wendy Orange, BBV, Florida, Volusia, etc... could be presented in the case.

This is GOOD news. Get out of the OHio state court system and continue the fight agressively. That is GOOD!!!!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. GOOD!!!!
You are so right. There is much aside from just Ohio (though I still wanna see Blackwell indicted!!).
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is the reason why the Washington Repubs are going to
interfere with the Gregoire certification.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Let them. They have no case.
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pilgrimsoul Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. I am really disappointed to see this
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:39 PM by pilgrimsoul
So what if pursuing the suit wouldn't prevent the inauguration?! Talk about missing the forest for the trees! The whole point is to get the allegations and evidence out there and into the public record. The court of public opinion is just as important as the Ohio Supreme Court.

The only thing dropping this lawsuit will accomplish is to validate and reinforce the "move along, nothing to see here" viewpoint of those who continue to deny the truth. I would rather have seen the case dismissed by Judge Moyers outright than to have Arnebeck non-suit the case voluntarily. Now people will say that the lawsuit was frivolous and none of the legitimate allegations raised in it will receive the attention they deserve.

If Arnebeck had pursued the suit for a while longer, at least some discovery could have been conducted and possibly even some sworn testimony taken and placed into the record before the judge dismissed the case. And Arnebeck would still have grounds for appeal because of Judge Moyer's conflict of interest.

As long as the lawsuit stayed alive, election fraud would remain on the media's radar screen and they would be obligated to release at least an occasional, albeit brief, update until its resolution, one way or the other. Now, the issue of election irregularities and fraud will just dissolve from America's collective consciousness and the public will assume that the lawsuit had zero credibility to begin with. I shudder to think how the rightwing punditocracy will characterize this retreat on their cable talk shows. Folks, this is the final nail in the coffin for clean, transparent elections in this country.

This development is devastating to the cause of election reform no matter how you look at it. No one, save the few of us who staunchly support the cause, will take the issue seriously now. I am utterly bewildered at Arnebeck's actions here. It is difficult for me to believe that this outcome could possibly be better than not filing the lawsuit at all.

EDITED to add that I posted the above before reading Andy's post regarding the upcoming press announcement. I will wait to read that before drawing any other conclusions. But I still maintain hope based upon what Andy said. Damn, what a roller coaster ride!
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. read the article, they're not giving up.
this is not devastating
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
29.  Sounds like all but ONE who is still in the lawsuit...check out this snip
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 02:08 PM by KoKo01

from the article. Now maybe I can't count but look at how oddly this article is worded: 3 dozen voters pull out but 37 filed. (makes me think the person who wrote this purposely put in "3 dozen" so we wouldn't notice that there was still "1" left. Not that it matters..Moyers was always going to throw it out...but still I've never seen an artice use "Three Dozen to describe 36 people..."
--------------------------

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - Three dozen voters challenging the presidential election results in the Ohio Supreme Court asked to drop their lawsuit Tuesday, saying it is moot with last week's certification of the electoral vote and the upcoming inauguration.

Citing fraud, lawyers representing 37 voters on Nov. 2 had asked the court to examine several problems with voting procedures in the hopes of overturning President Bush's victory in the state.
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NationalEnquirer Donating Member (571 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
30. This was never going to pan out anyways.
Did anyone really expect it too?
There are other fish to fry here!
You have to choose your battles carefully!
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. Hopefully, they'll file an ethics complaint against Moyer
Moyer ruled that the original case was not submitted properly because it had his name in it as well as the President's. Wouldn't it be a great day to read that Arnbeck was filing ethics charges against Moyer for failing to recuse himself from the first case?
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. Ok, now I'm depressed. All that work to have it not even be
looked at?
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Please read Post #7
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 03:19 PM by LeahD
from Andy Stephenson.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Some people just jump ship at the slightest provocation around here..
jeepers.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Oh and thanks for the update, Andy
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pilgrimsoul Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. I cannot speak for others here
but I can say that I am not in any way, shape or form "jumping ship." What I am trying to do is to interpret the news that the lawsuit has been dropped in a reasoned manner. To me, it seems reasonable to express disappointment at this development and to question its impact on the cause of election reform. If this non-suit turns out to be a good thing, I will be among the first to breathe a sigh of relief. But my professional experience tells me otherwise. Never in my 20+ years as a legal professional (paralegal) have I seen the voluntary dismissal of a civil lawsuit strengthen a plaintiff's case or result in the slightest strategic advantage for a plaintiff. That does not mean it is not possible -- only that I have never seen it happen.

The attorneys on this board could certainly address this question far better than I could. I am merely expressing an opinion, with which you are welcome to disagree. Believe me - it would absolutely thrill me to be proven wrong in this instance.

My apologies to anyone who may have been offended the tenor of my previous post.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. It was expected here, Now they can get to the meat of the matter.
Go Cliff, and Andy :smile: cross all the "T"s and dot all the "I"s, Get all that you can on these thugs. This is so dirty, The hard part about their job is itemizing all the illegal activities. Thanks Andy for all you are doing, a true patriot!


:hug:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. From what I've seen here...Election Law is very complicated.
Individual States and the Counties in the states all have differing Election guidelines. I understand what you are saying..that in typical cases this might not look good.

But, election laws are so varied it's very tricky. Believe me on this...I had no idea myself until I got in volved here in my County in NC in this last election.

So, I'm going with Arnebeck on this one. He knows Ohio and Election Law...it may take a long time...but we have to have patience on this. I'm totally disappointed that we couldn't get this last Election overturned. But, we've got to realize that Blackwell/Bush & Co. have the top lawyers figuring out how to scam the system...and Ohio and Florida was where they had really big help and where they put their big guns. They knew the law inside and out and how to figure out the different Precinct and County laws and work it to their advantage.

Your experience as a paralegal is valuable, but unless it was in Election Law...it's not the same.

But I understand your frustration...we're all dealing with it.
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
44. Maybe the good news in this is that Moyer does not get to put
a decision on the record...
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Quite true
However he did put enough on the record that will tarnish him for life...maybe into the history books. :7
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
45. It makes sense to me. I wonder if
a civil rights violation case in federal court will get more publicity.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. Apparently that is what Ms Truitt thinks based on this item...
...from BradBlog:

UPDATE: A report via a Yahoo Newsgroup on this issue reports that Susan Truitt, one of the attorney plaintiffs who brought the case, has said the decision to drop the case was based on a number of issues (which the AP story interestingly failed to mention). Amongst them, the report says they plan instead to file a Federal civil lawsuit in U.S. District Court, alleging civil rights violations and election fraud. That, instead of the Ohio action, which, the plaintiffs had come to discover, was being heard by the Republican Ohio Supreme Court Justice who had shown a lack of impartiality in the case (e.g. He refused to recuse himself from it, despite being a a candidate on the ballot in question).

<snip.

The post, from a usual reliable source, also says that Truitt "was concerned the biased, Republican-dominated Ohio Supreme Court would assess huge fines and penalties against the plaintiffs/attorneys filing the suit, in order to attempt to "deter" any further legal action." And concludes with, "Susan is working hard toward the federal civil action which will be filed very soon."

Link:

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001119.htm

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roenyc Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Amazing how they just left that out
but thats OK, the less "they" know the better. let everyone think its over and done. and just whack them with it when they least expect it.

Ohio is as corrupt as Chicago in the (well whenever it was that the mafia owned Chicago) and as bad as Florida in 2000.

i am just glad I have this place to hold my hand through all this.

thank you guys for all the info and all your brain power.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
47. The courts were stacked with Reps who ran out the clock
among other things... But this was the appropriate place to start legal action.
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bj2110 Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
48. So, was the press release that Andy referred to ever, umm... released? nt
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I've been checking back all day for it n/t
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TruthBeTold22 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. Sounds like Arnebeck's Filing of the Suit
Maybe tomorrow, then maybe the next day....geesh.
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
53. Bradblog covers this. It is being said they plan to reintroduce a case...
a civil lawsuit under a Federal District court. This is actually good news if so. The case under the Ohio Supreme Court would most likely have been sabotaged. Court biased and all. Also they could have imposed HEAVY fines. http://bradblog.com/
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pilgrimsoul Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Wow - this is really good news
Keeping my fingers crossed that Arnebeck can get the case heard by a truly impartial federal judge (who's not a shrub appointee). If that happens, there's no stopping the truth from getting out. And if Arnebeck wins his case, I'm really hoping that federal prosections of those responsible will follow. I'd love for that sleazy, shameful waste of an inaugural to be the neocons' last hurrah before finally being exposed as the disgraceful traitors they are.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
56. Profound thanks to Cliff, Andy, Susan and everyone involved...
...for trying to protect our right to vote, for fearlessly pursuing BushCons, and for all the trouble and worry and work it surely has been!

You are heroes! And what a few posters don't seem to understand is that heroes don't fair well in courts these days, so many stacked courts there to protect corporate and war interests and the rich, and doing so without any regard to fairness or the truth. It is a pity. I studied Constitutional law in college and gained an impression of our modern courts as protectors of the helpless against the powerful, and as enforcers of Constitutional protections, and, at the least, as seeking a fair balance among interests.

That reputation is gone, and judges are now, more often than not, naked powermongers and politicians. The Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore in '00 inflicted the final blow to any credibility the courts still had.

Now, finding a fair judge--just a fair judge, not a raving liberal--is like looking for a just man in Sodom and Gomorrah. Hard to find. (Yeah, I know, it's a patriarchal story, and probably the opposite of the truth, but you get the idea.)

Thus Cliff's, Andy's, Susan's and others' heroism in this legal effort is all the greater!

And that they are PURSUING IT in a different venue is more than we could have expected. Much more. I am so glad!

The weak-kneed Democrats could learn a thing or two from you all. Never give up our right to vote. Never!

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sharman Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
57. Question for Andy
If Arnebeck has identified specific precincts where he believes Kerry votes were switched to Bush (IMO, the heart of his case), are there plans to canvass those precincts? Seems to me, you could a real good reality check, for one's supporters if no other purpose, by polling 100% of the voters in selected precincts and checking their responses against the official election results. (And if you can get enough voters to sign affidavits...)

I know I keep asking this question, my apologies for the broken record. But I'm hoping to hear an answer, one way or another, from someone connected with a group that is seriously pursuing election fraud.

Much thanks for your fine work, whether or not you can answer my question.
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