Computer & elections experts: isn't this quote rather important info???

[berniew1]

"The Director for Fulton told me that Triad is able to reprogram the computer to count only the Presidential ballots by remote dial-up. I do not know when after the election that occurred."

"County officials were cooperative."

— Green Party County Coordinator
Henry County Recount

(I've saved that site as a file and screen shot)
taken from another thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x185734

[Darkhawk32]

1. Man, they need to impound all these machines.... n/t

[Higans]

35. It may be too late to impound the machines.

If that Map is correct and the central tabulators are only in three counties, then there is a good chance any recount hope lay in a full hand recount.

Per signed affidavit at http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml the Tabulation software has been compromised.


This makes it impossible for a 3% sample recount to determine if the tabulation software was operating correctly at the time of the original counting. In addition the new software possibly added could be programed to count accurately for the first 3-5% of the vote totals and then still feed you what ever numbers the programmers want after 50% or 75% or 100% have been counted. Thats just the way it is. You know this technology at least as well as I do People. Hard drives are so small. I could fit one in my pocket just as easy as you can. I could swap one out with a simple screw driver just as easily as you. If I installed a wireless card to my computer OR YOURS there is a good chance I can control the system without your knowledge. Or any one for that matter. wouldn't even have to be in the building.

Just the fact that he had the opportunity to remove possible evidence from the central tabulator is a gaping security hole. A lot of computers can be networked and controlled with a device that can fit in the palm of your hand and can be installed with out the use of a screw driver. wake up and fight these Hackers. Even if this Battle is lost (and I don't think it is) the war will be with us forever if we do nothing.

[understandinglife]

2. That's why I saved the file and have sent it, along with other..

...materials to Conyers, Arnebeck, NVRI, Friedman and others.

Peace.

[sabra]

3. Wow!

That's a very revealing statment...

Can I see a demo on how they do that? Someone needs to investigate this!

Thanks for the post.

[crispini]

4. Well, from a computer point of view:

The company where I work sells proprietary software systems that do a very specific thing. Not voting. We have always -- since 1995 at least -- had a method of accessing these computers remotely using dialup. The customer always knew about this and WANTED it -- it was used for maintenance, patches, upgrades etc. If they didn't want it, they could always unplug the modems. The remote access method has changed over the years-- there were several different programs -- but it always had some form of security on it, encrypted password, special version of the program that only we and our customers had access too, etc.

So, the mere fact that dial-up EXISTS doesn't cause me any heartburn. The question is, does the COUNTY carefully control the access to the dialup? This quote doesn't tell us that.

And I can't speak about the elections propriety of it.

[Red State Blues]

6. Being in a similar computer position.

The idea of a live update is something I find very disturbing. I agree that something like this could be fine, It can make updating software BEFORE an election or BETWEEN elections very simple. However, in light of claims that this sort of thing can not be done by the manufacturers with conflicting information that seems to show election info on private election equipment sites DURING the election, this seems like a HUGE problem.

BTW: For me, during the election the only sort of "access control" that is acceptable to me is NONE. No passwords, nothing. No wireless, no modems no connection whatsoever could be acceptable.

I used to work in a company that used highly proprietary and secure software where we did constant live "patching".(not voting related) We were secure but not as secure as you would need to be for something as serious as the fate of Democracy. We also used to joke about things we could do to customers that upset us to blow off steam. Nothing was ever done, but what could we have done? Anything we would have wanted! Sure, months later, after forensics experts ripped the machines apart we MIGHT have been discovered but I think there were people I worked with talented enough to get around that as well.

[crispini]

9. Yes, you make a very good point.

The engineers at our company have also similarly joked about how easy it would be for us to do X or Y. Even in the banking industry (many of our customers are banks) the level of security I see is wildly variable. There are some banks I have dealt with where I would NEVER open an account -- others who have an appropriate level of paranoia.

The systemic failure I really see here is that the individual county offices will have widely varying levels of security and computer expertise.

That's why, IMO, although posting on DU is fun, what every single one of us needs to do for a long term solution is to go get involved in our local League of Women Voters or some other citizen organization and take it upon ourselves to educate our local election boards. Just my two cents! :)

</soapbox>

[me b zola]

14. This, for me, is cause for a revote...

I realize that this is a very simplistic view, but how often isn't truth hidden within simplicity??If we have used a system that can not be verified, doesn't that nullify the results?
I contend that until ALL results of the general election can be verified, those results are illegitimate.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, repukes et al.

[anamandujano]

24. "If we have used a system that can not be verified"

I agree that this is the whole enchilada, no verification=no election.

There is no way to get around this. We should not have to accept a hodge podge of "don't worry, I only did this", "trust us" and the like.

[me b zola]

29. And for future elections,

perhaps this should be the bones of any legislation that is proposed.
If you can't prove it, it isn't legitimate. That simple. If you can't prove that the system could not have been hacked, then we must assume that it was. Clear and transparent.

[anamandujano]

30. Word!

This can't be left to the repuke congress to decide, it must be kept before the people. You probably know that the repukes sidelined a bill to insist that the machines in this election have a paper trail. I think I heard Jerrold Nadler say that they wouldn't even have a vote on it. Some lackey that was on Charlie Rose (with Nadler) chimed in that they didn't want to spend the extra $60 per machine for printers and they were worried about "paper jams" on election day. See how stupid they think we are suggesting that we might buy that crap.

[me b zola]

31. Ah, but the masters...

always believe their slaves(speaking in a Marxist tone) to be beneath them, intellectually and every other manner.
The drumbeat of our movement...no proof= no legitamacy.
no justice= no peace.
We must not allow ourselves to be sat in the back of the bus ever again.
No lesser legislation should be accepted by ANY of us!

[pointsoflight]

7. Problem is, uncertified pateches and upgrades are illegal.

The software being run on the election machines must be certified. If patches are being uploaded after the certification, what you end up with is software on the computers that has not been certified. This is the basis of the California lawsuit against Diebold (which led to a 2.6 million settlement).

[mulethree]

12. Fuzzy

Software is computer programs. Is this message - a bunch of text - software? It is affecting what you're reading on your screen. Is a spreadsheet that has formulas software? How about a spreadsheet that contains conditional logic? Surely a spreadsheet that includes scripted programming is software.

The voting machine software that gets certified is not specific to each county or precinct. There is something else that defines the Ballot - what race, what candidates, how many choices for this race, text to display for an Issue question, text for each response etc. Potentially several sets for different languages, audio data for the visually impaired etc. This is configuration information.

Simpler for a ballot scanner, what hole/mark position corresponds to which what race-issue/response.

The admin for the machine has to (Ohio Law) tweak the configuration so that only one race will be recounted. Might save time and expense for a hand count, but not for a machine count - so it's a dumb law that doesn't let you leave the machine untouched and just read the appropriate result off the screen or printout.

In this case, and many that I've seen, the counties outsource their election machine administration to companies like Triad. They create the ballot configuration, fix broken machines, and tweak the ballot configuration to prepare for a recount.

The state or county law should have requirements for this type of configuration information. The configuration used for the election count, and that for the recount should be public record along with documentation describing the configuration file format.

[sandnsea]

20. They used it to adjust the software

That's what Conyer's letter says. They adjusted the recount tabulation software remotely. Between that and the tech's admission that they were trying to avoid a hand recount, it's plain unethical. Even if it isn't out and out designed to throw the election.

[Digit]

36. I say dump the electronic machines.

We need technology that is BASIC enough for the people at the BOE to oversee. I am not a techie, but I know enough to have built my own computers and I can't say I would know what kind of upgrade or whatever these guys are trying to put on unless I dealt with these machines day in and day out.
Technology is wonderful. It has it's place, but we need to have honest and fair elections.
We have people who are donating their time, who cannot possibly know how these machines work. When there is a problem, they don't know how to correct it, so someone has to be called.
What is the problem rate in the other modes of voting?
Where I used to live, we used the lever machines.
Maybe it is just not time for electronic voting.

[corky44]

26. you didn't pay close enough attention-

the dail-up was used to "prepare" the tabulators for the recount.

CREEPY

[Carolab]

32. It would seem the answer is "no"

since it was stated that the password was 1111 across the board and everyone pretty much could access with it.

[Clark2008]

33. You know they don't, crispini

I work in marketing for a tech company and I know for a fact that most people are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to technology. Not to say these people aren't smart at other things, but you start talking remote access, upgrades, patches, etc. to most people and their eyes glaze over.
I'm willing to bet that the county doesn't carefully control anything regarding the access to dialup and, unless they have some specific program that their county IT people use to monitor Internet usage, they probably don't monitor for that, either.
"Just fix it," has been given a new meaning, eh?

Hey - whadda ya know - not only are we both from "T" states and like Olbermann - we both work for tech companies. :)

[wrate]

5. As a Computer Engineer, I'd worry about what they DON'T say that the SW

can do.

[KaliTracy]

8. wasn't programming the computers to tally only presidental

votes the reasons that some people say that representatives showed up on-site prior to recound without someone from the local BOE contacting them?

[JackORoses]

10. yes

if it can be done by modem, there should be no reason to be there in person... unless you are doing something else

[anamandujano]

37. Good point!

WHO decided this was the way the recount was to proceed, ONLY recounting the presidential tally.

[IndyOp]

11. Internal modems built into many opscans, why not punch card tabulators?

From: VOTE FRAUD: WHAT THEY AREN'T TELLING YOU

"The missing link in the vote fraud investigation has been found. The November 1996 issue of Relevance Magazine reveals that two-way hidden modems are being built into the ever growing number of computerized optical scanner/direct recording voting machines in use all across the country from New England to California.

"How can tens of thousands of these independent voting machines in tens of thousands of separate locations possibly be manipulated without involving tens of thousands of people?....The bombshell from O'Halloran's article is that these hidden modems are accessible by remote cell phone technology. In other words, these voting machines can be accessed and manipulated from a central super computer without a phone line connected to the wall, and without the local precinct workers knowing that anything is happening at all.

"According to Dr. O'Halloran, "Of course, when the same company that writes the source code, also designs the internal modem, the possibilities are endless for accessing the computer either before, during or after the election to alter, or at least interrogate the computer's vote count. It raises the specter of a remote high-speed, vote rigging computer automatically and surreptitiously contacting, querying and rapidly adjusting the votes inside many precincts and/or central counting machines nationwide."

<http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd72.htm>

[Zan_of_Texas]

13. This is VERY VERY important.

There is no point in going through even the sham of voting machine certification and all that if someone can call in and change the instructions for the computer. ANYthing can be on that tabulating computer.

Are you going to sit there and BELIEVE what a tech or a computer company tells you? "Ya sure, it saves us a bit o' time ya see, to just call it in."

When the fate of the governance of the most powerful country on the planet is in the balance?

Government for, by and about the computer technicians. No thanks, not for me.

[BeFree]

15. So

Most any of these machines can be accesed as easily as mine can, by me, right now??

You have got to be kidding me?

There's no way BoE's would ever accept such a piece to hold and tabulate the votes. No way. Unless of course they never really knew.

But we have a pretty good idea, don't we. IIRC, Bev used to harp on this subject, oh, last two years or so. Yep, do believe she did, cause I remember thinking about this back then.

Geez, how frustrating it must be to have figured this out years ago, and now see everyone else just now getting it?

[jdog]

16. there was a meeting with the SOS of Colorado, and the public

was invited. Part of the meeting was a presentation by the Larimer County Clerk & Recorder who made a presentation. In that he stated a couple things I found interesting. One, that they actually experienced a power failure on election night (something I've seen discussed awhile back on DU).

The other was the fact that they had 30 different ballots, depending on the issues, etc. When asked who programmed those ballots in he claimed it was his staff. To tell you the truth, I didn't really believe that. I mean, how proficient could his staff be with this stuff really?

I just figure most people who don't deal with these particular machines on a regular basis would need to consult with a technician.

[Zan_of_Texas]

18. jdog, you got a link on the power failure story?

I've been tracking down a similar story here in Harris County, Texas.

[jdog]

19. No link.

The mention of a power failure came up during the meeting at the SOS office. They've just posted a rough draft of the minutes and it's not included. I'm planning on getting a copy of the tape of the meeting and offering my input on the minutes if they'll have it. I just noticed the comment because I remembered that being an issue awhile back here on DU.

[caligirl]

22. There was a complaint registered of power failure in Pleasanton Ca

on election day as well. Some guy called it in to one of the voter problem 800 numbers.

[caligirl]

23. Also look at the last line here in an editorial posted

on another thread:

Democrats continue to complain that many ballots in Montgomery County showed no vote for president, apparently intimating that those ballots would all have been for Kerry.

****Turns out there was an electrical malfunction, and the counts were made and Republicans benefited.*****

Not much of a conspiracy....


http://www.thenews-messenger.com/news/stories/20041223/...

[jdog]

28. Does anyone remember who it was looking for electrical outages? n/t

[jdog]

17. Kick. By the way, I think this is VERY IMPORTANT too. n/t

[Zan_of_Texas]

21. John Conyers seems to agree

Conyers follows up this info with a letter to Brent A. Rapp and Michael Barbian, Jr.

December 23, 2004
posted as a PDF by Raw Story

http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/conyers_triadnew_122304.php

includes questions such as:

Which counties can you access remotely?

Which counties did you access remotely? What changes did you make?

Since voting machines can be accessed over the internet, what steps have you taken to be sure they are not tampered with?

[anamandujano]

25. Question about possible replacement of hard drive

If they have either replaced or initialized the hard drives, then all evidence of malarky is gone.

Initialization (I only know about Macs), I'm fairly sure, still leaves a trace of history that clever recovery people can get. Replacement would mean no history of election day.

We should make sure that any evidence we accept, assuming they can get these machines in discovery, is not blank. It sounds stupid the way I'm explaining it, so hopefully some accomplished programmers will weigh in. If they hand us a hard drive with no history of the vote then that will constitute proof of cover-up. I'm sure they'll be able to trace the shennanigans in any altered or cleaned up history.

I don't know much but I could have walked into that office and initialized the hard drive, maybe even replaced it with the help of a manual. (Also know how to wipe my fingerprints from movies which no doubt would be my most important activity.)

[jdog]

27. Like the Nixon tapes missing minutes.

18 1/2 minutes of nothing. I think most people figured it was erased because it was incriminating. It would certainly be a point of interest if numerous polling locations came up with gaps.

[merh]

34. I guess Rove sitting at his computer on election night

(see image 3 on the slideshow at this link http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6399124) we just Karl playing solitare.