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Who would be the Senator to step up and challenge the results?

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wheresthemind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 11:58 PM
Original message
Who would be the Senator to step up and challenge the results?
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 12:05 AM by wheresthemind
What Democrats are on their way out and have nothing to loose? Because in mounting a challenge they would be ending their mainstream political career.

As Keith put it:

"But the challenge itself, even if it garnered exactly one vote each from the Senate and House, would be a powerful protest, and an earnest signal that a full investigation of what happened in Ohio should take place, even after the inauguration. It could even be relevant, legally, in terms of the impounding of voting machines and records, to serve as the basis for some later examination to determine what, if anything, failed - and how it could be prevented from failing again."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

What do you guys think about Robert Byrd? Any other predictions. Remember, not even Wellstone stepped up in 2000.

My dream might be out going Edwards, even though it would be the end of him, it would be AMAZING to see him stand up and have his last action be to fight for those who voted for him. Yet both Kerry and him want to run again, so I don't see either of them doing it.
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Gore asked them not to
I don't know about Byrd - he rocks... I wouldn't want him to go down.

How about the one who Cheney told to go "f**k himself?" Isn't he from VT? I think the people of VT wouldn't hold it against him.
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wheresthemind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Byrd does rock...
but isn't he predicted to not run again?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Which is why he could afford to do the right thing n/t
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dmac Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
50. Absolutely
Except anytime he goes out on a limb the reps bring up the days of old and the KKK . . .
Bottom line - he lived those times, he changed with the times, and he learned, grew, and is a better man for having been there (unlike some of the other side's old timers). He has integrity - REAL integrity. And I do not think he is seeking another term. I think he is a great candidate for the job and I think he would be respected instead of taken down.

but I could be naive . . .
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Jim Jeffords (sp) might too, no fan of reps now n/t
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
47. I like Jeffords because he is an INDEPENDENT
i.e., has the nonpartisan stamp of approval
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Leahy
I think that's how it is spelled.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. Cheney told Pat Leahy to go f*ck himself. n/t
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WMliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. i bet our new minority leader would do it!! he's SOOO liberal
:P

I think we're gonna have a repeat of the beginning of F9/11. Only this time Crashcart holds the gavel.
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mslux Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. Senator John Kerry?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think that would look bad. Lets find someone else. But I do agree that
it would be smart of us to look around and find some senator(s) that we think we could persuade and then really target them with a concentrated effort.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Here's an idea.
How about EVERY FRIGGEN' DEMOCRAT SIGN ON TO THIS? Why should 1 Senator take the media/Republican heat when it looks he or she is the only one interested in the integrity of our vote system?

Why isn't every Democrat scrambling to be the first in line to show solidarity with the majority who won the election? Isn't it time that we stopped letting the Republicans beat us senseless....and send a powerful signal that it will not be "business as usual" in the next Congress?

There is strength in numbers, folks. If you don't take the issue on, it'll be your seat that is lost unfairly next. And if you don't show courage to stand up for us....don't be surprised if there isn't a Democratic electorate who'll bother to invest the emotional/financial capital in the next election cycle.

It's now or never people....start acting like the Party that has majority behind you or wimp out and watch your base evaporate.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. How about a republican?
Like Lincoln Chafee. Someone who had contemplated switching parties because of his disgust with this administration. Think that disgust shrivelled in the face of fraud? Doubt it. Chafee backed off from switching and I have to wonder why. There was more to it than party loyalty. He knows his party left the building right along with Elvis.

Did the Dems convince Chafee to remain in the GOP because they wanted/needed a republican Senator in their corner to protest the election results and give the fraud issue more credibility with the public? Chafee can always switch after the election is overturned. Besides, he has to know his days in office are numbered with the machines running the show, now. If he is the one to speak out against the fraud and demand accountability, history will show him to be a true Patriot and hero. He'll become an icon and will grow old in Congress if that's what he wants.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Maybe Snow and Collins will join him.
They, too, have a date with destiny. Or face extinction in the next election.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Very true. I'd also include all other non-neocons.
Such as McCain and Specter. Not that I hold out much hope of either of them doing the right thing.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. The Party of Lincoln eh? n/t
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. I think they offered Chaffee something
to stay.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Maybe somebody did.
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 01:00 AM by txindy
But which side? And what was the incentive? :shrug: I think he has potential as the one we need to stand up in the Senate and blow the doors off of the election fraud investigation. Theoretically, anyway. I don't know the man, but it sounds like the perfect positioning to me. They'll rig the machines against him in his next election. He has nothing to lose and a place in history if he makes this stand against fraud.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. Obama? he has the passion and a "mandate" in IL n/t
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:15 AM
Original message
no one going out will be there!
The vote is done with the new congress, which is swore in on the 3rd!
thus my Obama suggestion..
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. Biden? n/t
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. No way. n/t
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. You all don't seem to be paying attention...
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 12:26 AM by libertypirate
ALL OF THEM!!!

Since we have evidence of FRAUD they ALL should OBJECT.

This is not a political movement it's a democratic one...

They should be embarrassed not objecting.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Agree. What began today ....
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 12:47 AM by understandinglife
....must quickly transcend partisan.

The Alliance for Democracy is not partisan.

The partnership forged between Rev Jackson and Mr Arnebeck is not partisan.

Please, everyone, our American franchise of Democracy is at the brink of destruction.

The one way, likely the only way, we can save the rights written with the blood of 2 centuries of those dedicated to expanding the ideals of our Constitution is immediately and vigorously to reach out to all our fellow citizens.

Remember just how many Republicans of stature endorsed Senator Kerry; even before the election they fully understood the threat to our franchise.

As I just wrote to Mr Olbermann:

"Your 'blog' about the hearings is interesting but I think you and many others are not yet reporting to our fellow citizens the severity of the crisis. We are at war, Mr. Olbermann. A war in Iraq, as totally unjust and unjustified as Vietnam, but still a war declared by Mr Bush.

Our Constitution is rather explicit about acts that even attempt to undermine our Government during time of war. What has been done to the electoral process in 2004, already documented, is as severe an act of undermining our Government as any could be -- a systematic denial of citizens' choosing that Government.

You are outstanding, and largely alone, whose responsibility it is to bring the truth about our Government to full exposition for the elucidation of the citizens of our franchise. But, as I mention in the correspondence below, the horse left the barn today and it is not going back in. You and your management team need to begin planning on how you are either going to be a significant partner in saving our American franchise of Democracy or a bit player in chronicling its demise.

I hope you will be truly courageous and I hope those concerned with the economic success of your organization will realize that only one broadcaster is required in a totalitarian state and fox news has got you beat, hands down, for that assignment."

We need to adopt, quickly, a true, impassioned and constant message to everyone, not just 'Democrats,' -- this is not about Kerry or Bush. Neither of them can 'win' because in a democracy the only winners are the people and the people only 'win' when they all have fair access to vote and to the knowledge -- not belief, but knowledge -- that their vote was counted as they intended.

For all of you who read these threads and have so very much more stature, influence and resources than I will ever have, please, please focus on the threat confronting all of us -- we are in the midst of a Constitutional crisis while also in a state of declared war. Spending time on anything other than gathering every one of our friends, neighbors, associates and bringing all of our collective energy to a focus on this crisis is what must be done, now.

Forget the future of the DNC, forget 2006, forget social security, forget all of it -- if we don't save our franchise of democracy now, all those other issues are of zero reality. We will be living in a totalitarian, theocratic state and will be struggling for generations to find our way back to what was achieved at Independence Hall in 1787 and approved by 1789.

Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
36. Naw, the Demos can't tell a narrative and they don't have any values
................?


Maybe that's what up?

It sure would be one heck of a story if the Dems did it now wouldn't it?

Stand up for values?

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rhite5 Donating Member (510 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
59. I completely agree with you .... Rs and Ds and all
It is not a partisan issue.

Either voting means something or it doesn't.

I would dare any senator to not stand up, and carefully note who doesn't.

We must frame the issue that way.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
68. I whole-heartedly agree!
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
14. Byrd, Obama, Jeffords....
all are possibilities. Time will tell.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. Only one Senator...
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Byrd does rock but
I heard he's a former KKK member. Is this true or just disinformation?

If it's true, it would be the ultimate irony. A beautiful thing! Talk about being born again; it would be like Nixon gong to China -- better!

On the other hand, how about a Repuke senator, or a former one like Jeffords?

Arnebeck has some Republican ties too. He's not a senator but you get the drift. Some of them may actually be honest and we know there were a number of them for Kerry.

One more thing, I don't think anyone who's term is up this year can do this. Jan. 6 is actually the next congress. You know, the ones who were fraudulantly elected! :-)
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I've heard that Byrd story
But only from freeper sites. I don't know its origins, but it gets a lot of play with the wingnutty population of morans devoted to Junior.
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thanatonautos Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
52. I believe it's true ...
Byrd was a KKK member, back in the 1940's. It came out
first in the 1960 presidential campaign, I think.
He was a recruiter of some sort, and I think corresponded
with some of the higher ups.

Byrd voted against civil rights legislation, but
said later on that it was one of the two votes in
45 years in Congress that he regrets.

I think a point to keep in mind is that Byrd
disavowed his racist past a long time ago, now.

He's openly acknowledged his Klan membership again in recent
years ... here is a decent article on the subject.

It's maybe hard to believe, and probably it shouldn't be
believed in most cases. But even hard core racists are
capable of reform. Racism doesn't always run so deep
in people that it can't be consciously excised.

There are some other examples, like George Wallace.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #52
60. Read the article. Interesting.
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 08:44 AM by txindy
At least it wasn't a raving wingnut site. Easier to believe that way. Not to mention, easier to understand, since it's written in comprehensible English.

Okay, Byrd made serious mistakes forty+ years ago. He's certainly renounced those decisions, unlike, as the article points out, Strom Thurmond. It cracks me up that freepers refer to Byrd as "Robert Byrd (KKK, West Virginia)" because he's a Democrat. If he was a wingnut, like themselves, he'd be an icon. That's the sort of background they get off on. If he put on a dorky little pseudo-military (or organ grinder's monkey) uniform, they'd probably want him for president.

You're absolutely right, people do make mistakes and are capable of reform. If they're smart and have a conscience to call their own, it doesn't take a lifetime. If they're not smart and are completely sociopathic, they start 'pre-emptive' wars and economically drive their countries into the ground.
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thanatonautos Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Word!
Those are absolutely my feelings. Byrd was one of the
very few Democrats I respected during the buildup
to the Iraq invasion. I was immensely moved by his
arguments on the Senate floor. He refused to authorize
what I feel was essentially a decision based purely on
domestic politics to go to war immediately in Iraq. I
never bought any of the arguments that claimed Saddam was
an imminent threat, but I would certainly have liked
to see him removed on humanitarian grounds. But that
should have been done by Bush I, when there was widespread
international support for it. If * wanted it to be done,
he should have spent the years necessary to build
up a case on humanitarian grounds, which were the
only legitimate ones possible.

The Dems should have seen that this was a trap, and
opposed the `war resolution' (for it was not sold
as a war resolution). It was a case of all politics
being too local (Tip O'Neill?).
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #61
69. Byrd also has a serious book out.
I forget the name but it's not hard to find. It's about the end of the republic, the constitution, or some such thing. This makes him a good candidate for contesting the electoral vote, along with some of the others mentioned, and anyone else who will agree.
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thanatonautos Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. I want to read this one.
It's called:

"Losing America: Confronting a Reckless and Arrogant Presidency"

Good title.

Review

Thanks for telling me ;)
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. Arlen Spector! (Sorry Anita Hill...) n/t
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proud_Kucitizen Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
58. It is true
He said so himself in an interview with Larry King just before the war began but he did say he's not particularly proud of that era of his life.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe Tom Harkin from Iowa?
Senator Tom Harkin from Iowa may be man enough to step up to the plate.

He has been very vocal against BushCo.
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
23. I begged my Senator Leahy - he just said...
...that yes, he knew of the situation

You'd think he'd want to return Cheney's "go fuck yourself"....
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dazeconf Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. someone old and soon to retire (nothing to lose)... Byrd? nt
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
46. I got as close to a nonanswer as you can get from anyone from him, too n/t
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
25. Ted Kennedy. Think he'd ever be defeated w/o fraud?
I doubt it. But he has to know that his days in the Senate are numbered if those machines aren't stopped now.
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. I don't think Kennedy would be a good idea - just because
he's so tight with Kerry. It might look bad.

Don't get me wrong - he is the best! ( I love having him as my senator, he works his a** off for us) :)
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. He's not my first choice, but if we only need one, he may be the one
The only willing one, anyway. Somehow, though, I get the feeling that there is something going on regarding this very situation. The Dems are too quiet overall.

Anyway, Kennedy if no one else will put themselves on the line. He'll do it. In the end, the messenger won't matter. When the truth about the fraud is revealed, the message will prevail - and the messenger will go down in history. :)

Any Dem or non-neocon repub who doesn't stand up is going to be removed from office in their next election, anyway. They have nothing to lose!
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
27. Obama n/t
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
62. That would wake up the media!
But my money's on Senator Byrd -especially if there's a groundswell of requests. He understands that.

Obama is a novice and while it would generate some intense coverage (as would KERRY'S involvement but whatever) it would also place him at risk right out of the gate. Of course the cause is worthy of ANY one Senator, but *if* there's a choice...my first letters will go to Senator Byrd.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #27
70. He is my guess. He is the one. He has the clean slate required.
All other members of the Senate can be bought, and none other are as potent a messenger for the cause of human rights than a gentleman of color who will actually be relegated to slavery based on his skin color if the Republican Revolutionaries succeed in shredding the Bill of Rights and nearly all of the Constitutional Amendments.

If it unfolds like this, then a Lady Representative of the Congress, perhaps Cynthia McKinney, should second his motion to investigate the election, since SHE would have even more to lose than Senator Barack Obama.

It is only fitting that two who have most to lose should be in a position to gain the most, by defending this nation from the immediate, present, direct, and dangerous domestic and foreign attack by theocrats being aided and abetted by Neocons in their attempt to overthrow the Republican Party of, the Democratic Party of, and the United States of America.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
28. Graham ??
He's on his way out.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
38. Graham WILL NOT BE THERE IN JANUARY.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
31. How about Corzine? n/t
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
35. Senator Daniel K. Inouye
"Biography of Senator Daniel K. Inouye

Daniel K. Inouye, the third most senior member of the U.S. Senate, is known for his distinguished record as a legislative leader, and as a World War II combat veteran who earned the nation's highest award for military valor, the Medal of Honor.

Although he was thrust into the limelight in the 1970s as a member of the Watergate Committee and in 1987 as Chairman of the Iran-Contra Committee, he has also quietly made his mark as a respected legislator able to work in a bipartisan fashion to enact meaningful legislation."

I nominate him for Chairman of the Election Fraud Committee!
Ranking member at least!

Anybody second?
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senegal1 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. Inouye!!! Seconded!!! Brave, patriotic, not afraid to do the
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 01:18 AM by senegal1
right thing! Well reasoned. Good Demo choice but we need a Republican too! Also its a good idea to get EVERYONE on board but I doubt we can do it in this short time. I suggest getting one Republican on board will do more for us than 100 Democrats (edit spelling sorry its late).
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Agreed. It should be bi-partisan n/t
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
37. well....it's not something that I am terribly proud of, but...
Trent Lott is a distant cousin...ya want I drop him an email?
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
40. A Senate Blaster/Resource Center is all set up for this.
Here's the link that started it all:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x73567

Tell the U.S. Senators you want them to contest the Presidential election!

The U.S. Representatives are ready to do it. All it takes is just one Senator to sign on too! In 2000, not even one would! Let's not let this happen again! Email them all and let them know how you feel!
Individual:
http://www.independentmediasource.com/senatevote_individ_sa.htm

Blast all:
http://www.independentmediasource.com/senatevote.htm

Lots of letters/tools/subject lines here, both to em your individual Senators, and Blast 'em all! The only thing missing is an "Email to Friends" letter. If anyone wants to write this letter, do it and PM it to me. It would be much appreciated since I'm focusing all my efforts on updating my National Media Blaster.

Page for Email to Friends" letter:

http://www.independentmediasource.com/senatevote_emailothers_sa.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------
National Media Blaster:

http://www.independentmediasource.com/voteintegrity.htm

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steelyboo Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
42. I posted this on the first thread
I thought that Kerry might do it, but there would be deafening deafening cries of conflict of interest.

But, I have a plan . . . :P

How about the new Junior Senator from Illinois?

If he's the future of our party, he better get to leading, and I think standing where no one had the courage to stand in 2000; beside the members of the lower house, the people's chamber; that would be the best place to start.

Otherwise, I will be going Green, don't give a shit if some think its a waste, I got to be able to sleep with myself at night.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
43. The article mentions a Senator and a Congressperson
For Congress, why not Conyers himself? He's been there in the house for 40 years and has a "safe" seat.

His district is one where 661 Michigan voters made calls to voteprotect.org due to various problems. Some of the problems were being sent fliers to vote on the wrong date, registering and having the registrations not turned in, being sent to 2-3 different locations to vote even though they have voted at the same place for decades, being told they were not registered even when they had the physical registration card in THEIR HAND, etc.

So now that that's been decided...;)
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Farmgirl Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
45. Could we have our Senator???
Check out this Change For America website link:

http://www.changeforamerica.com/community/node/view/1803

"BIG NEWS: We needed one Senator to sign off on the objection for the 2004 election and to call for an investigation. Well it sounds like we may have him. Senator Bill Nelson...of Florida is investigation the voter fraud...and has apparently agreed to cast a vote for Rep. John Conyer's call for an investigation."

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Oh, that's TERRIFIC news!
Let's all write to Senator Nelson and give him our fullest support!
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Greybnk48 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. shouldn't this news get its own headline?
Hi Carolab

I'm new here, but shouldn't this info be posted in the discussion forum under its own headline? If this is correct, this is HUGE!!!
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #45
57. I called Senator Nelson's office yesterday
and gave an earful to the staffer that answered the phone.

Amoung other things I asked that the Senator go public now about the election, that he go to Ohio with the House Democrats and that, if it came down to it, that he be the one required Senator to contest the electoral college result.

Of course, I'm nobody and assume the staffer I spoke to was just rank and file, but maybe the rest of the staff was simultaneously taking similar calls from other constituents.

By the way, I've never before called a Senator's or Representative's office before. Yesterday I was so outraged that CNN carried the breaking developments of a fight at a basketball game all day long and never a mention (that I could see) of major violations of the law involving the most important foundation of our country, that I had to do something.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #45
73. OMG! Post this in it's own thread!!!!
:hi: :bounce:
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
51. ROBERT BYRD OF WEST VIRGINIA IS THE ONLY CLEAR CHOICE
PERIOD.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
53. How about Edwards? He's on his way out...
Or is he unavailable?

He's already booked for a New Hampshire event...maybe he has time.
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g9udit Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
54. BYRD IS THE SENATOR . HERE IS DOCUMENTATION TO SEND HIM

Byrd is far and away our best chance, as he has guts and integrity,
he has spoken out more than anyone against Bush, and VERY importantly
he's old and he can't be scared or intimidated by the neo-cons.

Below is a letter sent to Byrd, with some of the best
Documentation websites on the Election Fraud issue.

Among other things, I included the fact that 5 Diebold Senior
Developers, including their VP are convicted Felons.

I strongly encourage other people to email Byrd as well.


Dear Senator Byrd,

I am asking you to please come to the aid of the Brave 13 Congressional Representatives who have called for the GAO to Investigate the many documented errors, questionable results, and evidence of Voter Disenfranchisement, Voter intimidation, and an insufficient number of working voting machines in many
polling places, that occurred in this months Presidential Election.

However, there can be no investigation, and the Country will never get to the truth of whether there was election fraud on November 2nd, unless at least One United States Senator is willing to add his or her
name to the list of House Members making this request, and state officially that the American People deserve answers to the many below questions that have been raised regarding the reported election results on Nov. 2nd.

Please consider the below overwhelming Statistical Evidence indicating that the Computer Voting software may have been
manipulated to alter the reported results, and to tip some decisive swing states to Mr. Bush, in the recent Election:

I) Statistical Probability that Election Fraud occurred based upon
Historically Reliable Exit Polls vs. Computer Voting results
is conservatively estimated at over 99 percent probable by
Research experts and Polling professionals.

Dr. Steven Freeman of the Univ. of Pennsylvania has recently released a research paper that puts the chance of exit poll statistical anomalies being off, to the degree that reported Computer voting totals suggest, at a mere 1 in 662,000.

In "The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy," Dr. Steven F. Freeman, who has a PH. D from MIT and whose expertise lies in Research Methods, states :

"As much as we can say in social science that something is impossible, it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote counts in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error."

The odds of those exit poll statistical anomalies occurring by chance are 662,000 to one.

Dr. Freemans's Research paper can be read in it's entirety at : http://www.ilcaonline.org/freeman.pdf

Dr. Freeman can be contacted via his email address that appears at the above PDF file, or via the email address of

[email protected]

Professor Freeman concludes the research paper with this:

"Systematic fraud or mistabulation is a premature conclusion, but the election's unexplained exit poll discrepancies make it an unavoidable
hypothesis, one that is the responsibility of the media, academia, polling agencies, and the public to investigate."

In addition to Dr. Freeman's study of the Voting Anomalies, the below website is a links to a similar study done by the UC Berkeley
research security team on this issue.

The UC Berkeley research team concluded that the probability of fraudulent Reported Election results were over 99 % :

http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/new_web/VOTE2004/election04_WPwappendices.pdf

Professor of Mathematics David Anick, formerly of MIT, did an in-depth study of the discrepancies between exit poll results in Swing States, and the Voting totals reported in those states, and Prof. Anick concluded that the chances of the exit polls
being as wrong as the reported vote totals would indicate, are only 1 in 50,000.

A comprehensive Master List of the voting problems documented in the recent Presidential Election, including links to Scholarly analysis done of the Computer Voting totals can be found at :

http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm


II) How could Computer Voting Fraud have been committed and
was it feasible?

Please see the below demonstration of how Computer Votes could have been manipulated, in a 4 Step demonstration,
using Diebold's own GEM operating system software, from Chuck Herrin , a certified Microsoft Systems Engineer and IT auditor :

http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm


III) Suspects : Is there any reason to be suspicious of the Computer
Voting companies?

No less than 5 of Diebold's developers are convicted felons, including Senior Vice President Jeff Dean, who tops
the list with his twenty-three counts of felony Theft in the First Degree.

Mr. Dean was convicted of all 23 felony counts of theft in the First degree by - and this should raise Red Flags to any
objective person - planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection.

The above information comes from Case File No. 89-1-04034-1 (State of Washington ):

So we have someone who pleaded guilty to 23 counts of embezzlement, who is given the position of Senior programmer
of the (Diebold) GEMS central tabulator system that counts approximately 50 percent of the votes in the (Bush-Kerry) election,
in 30 states, using both paper ballot and touch screen machines.

And while Felons are not allowed to vote in the United States, they are allowed to write the software that is used
to count millions of the votes for the United States Presidential Election.

And their software is proprietary, with reported results that cannot be verified by a paper audit trail , since none exists.

Both ES & S and Sequoia, the other 2 main Computer Voting companies, also have a track record of criminal behavior,
which can easily be verified by checking the legal histories of these companies.

IV) Bullet point summation of the most serious 2004 Presidential Vote total errors found so far :

In addition to the 57,000 Voter complaints concerning Voter disenfranchisement, broken down or insufficient
voting machines, received by People for the American Way, below is a bullet point summary of some of the most serious
Presidential Election errors found so far, which are almost certainly just the tip of a large iceberg :

-The almost 4,000 votes awarded to Bush in Columbus, Ohio, reported by the AP, which was only noticeable
because more votes were recorded in the precinct than there were registered voters.

-Apx. 4,500 votes lost in one North Carolina county.

-3,000 phantom votes were added by a Nebraska "vote tabulator" which doubled the votes.

-22,000 North Carolina votes which later had to be added because the computer initially discarded them due to system overload.

-A glitch in San Francisco computers which caused many votes to be uncounted.

-Florida's anomalous results where only districts with touch screen voting had disproportionate votes for Bush than expected.
This analysis has since been duplicated by a UC Berkeley professor and others.

-AP reports in Florida and Ohio of voters who stated when using touchscreens, when they selected "John Kerry,"
that instead "George Bush" would appear on the screen.

-Long lines in urban Ohio areas, to the point where voters left in frustration after 8 or so hours.

-21 voting machines in Broward County, Florida, malfunctioned, eliminating prior votes that had been cast on them in this most-Democratic county in the state.

-Warren County, Ohio's, refusal to allow independent monitoring of vote counting based on a terrorist incident which turned out later to not exist.

- Machines in Oklahoma counted BACKWARDS for Kerry, with a net result of Sen Kerry losing 37,982 votes to the ES&S Optech Machines.
During the same time period President Bush gained 393,825 votes.

See this newspaper for confirmation of above Oklahoma problem http://okimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=344

-Malfunctioning vote cassettes in Palm Beach, FL.

-Boxes of absentee votes discovered after the election in a Broward County election office.

- In Cleveland, Heavily Democratic wards, such as Precinct 6-C and precinct 13-F, reported less than 20 % turnout, despite record turnout in most cities :

V) Conclusion : - Means, Opportunity, and Criminal Track Record exist, justifying an Investigation into a matter of this importance

The above facts show that the Means, the Opportunity, and a Criminal track record of those involved in writing the Computer Voting Software all exist,
and these 3 points taken together, along with the vast discrepancy between historically accurate Exit poll data and the reported Computer voting results
in swing states, point to a very strong possibility that Fraud did occur on a massive and significant scale in this months Presidential Election.

At the very least, an independent investigation is needed to look into these serious matters, not only
to be sure who the winner of the last election was, but also to insure that our Election voting procedures
are safe, accurate, secure, and fair for future elections in our Country.

Please make sure that Future Generations will have the sacred American right to vote and to be sure there
vote is recorded accurately, by supporting the members of Congress who have called for an Investigation.

I'd like to finish by saying that it would be a great tragedy if the citizens of the Ukraine are allowed to have
a recount to verify that their recent National Elections were valid , while the citizens of the United States,
the greatest Democracy on Earth, are not granted that same right.

Do the Ukrainians have more Courage and more fighting spirit to keep their newly won Democracy, than we Americans have ?

Does the Ukrainian opposition party have more Courage and dedication to Democracy and to a Just and Fair Election than the leadership
of the Democratic Party has here in America, which was the Democratic model and Ideal that inspired so many foreign people, including
the ex Soviet satellites, to cast off their Tyrannical governments, so that they could become Democracies themselves?

Can it be that America, the Beacon of Democracy, is a nation where their President is decided by an election where the votes are counted, using propiertary software, by 3 corporations that have both criminal records and heavy financial ties to the Republican Party, and of whom one of their CEO's, Walden O'Dell openly boasted that he would deliver the Electoral Votes of Ohio to Mr. Bush ?

Where is the Democratic Senate Leadership at this time ?

When will the Democratic Party reclaim their courage and Leadership, and stand up and Demand a just, and verifiable Vote count in America,
without disenfranchisement?

Please Senator Byrd.

I beg you on behalf of the Brave American Troops who will no doubt die unnecessarily in Iran, if Mr. Bush is allowed to steal this election, and resume his reckless agenda of preemptive military strikes, which only further cripple our armed forces,
provide propaganda recruitment to Al Qaieda, create more enemies and more terrorists, and damage the relationship with our allies.

Your service to your Country has been Honorable.

Please now take a stand once more, and help our Country end this long national nightmare of fear mongering, deceit, and subversion of
our Constitution, by aiding those Brave Congressional Representatives who are calling for an investigation into the overwhelming questionable report vote totals in several key swing states, especially Ohio and Florida.

The Ukrainian Parliament has just taken steps to demand a new election in their country, after the widespread fraud that occurred there.

Do not American Citizens, deserve at least the same rights as Ukrainians to a Fair and Verifiable election ?

I await your reply.

Sincerely and in Love of Our Country and It's Democracy,
YOUR NAME
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wheresthemind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. very nice
thanks
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #54
63. Correction needed?
g9udit, you wrote:

"However, there can be no investigation, and the Country will never get to the truth of whether there was election fraud on November 2nd, unless at least One United States Senator is willing to add his or her
name to the list of House Members making this request, and state officially that the American People deserve answers to the many below questions that have been raised regarding the reported election results on Nov. 2nd."

g9udit, It is my understanding that the GAO has been requested to investigate and that they have agreed to do so.

The reason we need a Senator to sign on has nothing to do with the GAO investigation, but rather to block the seating of the Bush Electors (in the electoral college)from Ohio. This needs (at least) ome member of the House and one member of the Senate.

A good discussion of this can be found on Blogger man, Kieth Olbermann's blog site http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/
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mostly_lurking Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
56. Edwards will already be gone
I believe the new Senate seats January 1. Edwards term will already be expired.
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3 DanO Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
64. Finding one Senator is not the problem
You seem to be putting a big effort into getting a stalled car moving and have completely ignored the fact that the bridge is out just up the road.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
65. Byrd
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
66. I've been thinking about this a lot.
Obama would be my choice. The repukes can't use Alan Keyes to get him out of office.
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KerryReallyWon Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
67. Here is the latest action/result of hearing...lawsuit filed!!! And....
William Rivers Pitt: From Selma to Ohio: A Report from the Conyers ...



Senator Byrd will probably be one of several to do it. Why not Graham, as part of this mess IS his responsibility. He is leaving.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
72. This was my question to Conyers the other day.
I told him to start working on the Senators NOW. I could see Obama stepping up to do this. However, this is something that needs every Dem Senator. Not just one. Power in numbers. If only one Senator signs on he/she will be crucified by the cabal. If ALL the Dem Senators sign on, it will look to be as important as it is. If we see a rerun of the F911 moment (SHAMEFUL!!!!) I will not skip a beat in joining the Green Party. I promise you. If these Democrats don't have the guts to fight for our right to vote, I'm finished with the party. :grr:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. This seems right to me, although they'll try to pick someone out
of the herd. But, we don't have to make it easy for them.

More, Al Gore had no business telling the Dem senators to stand down. It wasn't his election, it was ours. It's that old notion of representative government that these guys have so much trouble hanging onto.
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