I feel like saying something to the DUers, from an old fart.

[Mountainman]

I'm not eloquent but here goes. Maybe others my age can add to this.

I'm a child of the 60's. The coming weeks, months and years in this country will seem a lot like the 60's to me again.

Basically what the right wants is to turn back the clock to the 50's and maybe even farther back. Most of you younger than me don't have memories of that time but my feeling today is that you will learn what it was like just by living in this country in the future

If I have any good feelings left today, if anything sustains me, it comes from this idea. In the 60's we were the minority. We were freaks and hippies. We could recognize each other and we gathered together in homes and parks and coffee houses. We had an underground press and alternative movie houses and we connected through the popular music of the time. We had protest songs. We were hated and despised but when we were together we were happy. We had our ideals and we had hope and we knew we were right about many things. We were not perfect and many of us killed ourselves with over indulgence in drugs and other pleasures that we felt had no consequences.

The point of this is to say that I hope many of us live like the freaks and hippies of the sixties. I don't mean to be like we were but to have some means of recognizing each other. Have underground news. Have a popular music that you can connect with. Be good to each other and love and comfort each other.

There is a happiness in not conforming to the madness around you.
When the social safety net disappears, form co-ops to help each other out. Live in commune type communities where you spend your days with progressive people who think like you. Get the books and writings together that give you comfort and support. Share them and spend weekends meeting and discussing your beliefs.
For me the Unitarian Universalism Church has a group of progressives that I can socialize with and share my beliefs and feeling with.

So from an old fart from the sixties I aant to ask that you turn on, tune in and drop out. I don't me to turn onto drugs like we did, but turn onto your shared beliefs and sense of ideals.

It looks like a bumpy road ahead, but what ever you do, don't ever sell out.

[ewagner]

1. From another old-fart....

Thanks for the great post.

We'll suffer silently but never give up the fight.

[undergroundpanther]

4. I love both of you guys

As for your so called farts they smell like flowers in this shitty world.

[Carla in Ca]

51. Old fart? No way!

Being a liberal keeps me from being one. Being compassionate, open-minded and tolerant. Any driving my 57 Chevy (350 4-speed) doesn't let me think of myself as old.

OK, I survived the 60's and the lessons learned from that era is what will sustain me at this time of devastating disappointment. The key for me is to not dwell on the 'little things' of yesterday but to face the reality by looking at this on the whole; what it means for us as a country and where do we go from here.

I think the fight should be with the voting machines with no paper trail. I do not understand how we can ever trust this design. IMO, that should be the focus now.

My first thoughts were: I hate this country, I'm never voting again and my disappointment will consume me.
But, no, that is not who I am. I have to stay true to my beliefs as I absorb this, not let this absorb me.
So, we will do what we can, take the time necessary to get through this, and fight on.

[watercolors]

78. Yhank you

from another old fart. Some of my thoughts too. I want to watch bush and this administration fall flat on their collective asses, enjoy the show gang. We will get thru this one too. Find your peace for yourself in your way.

[prayin4rain]

2. That is a sweet post. :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Thanks! We shall overcome!

----------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/

[Triana]

5. UU is cool...

....I go to one ocasionally myself and an non-denominational. I was always a 'hippie' - always an 'outcast' - always will be the UNmainstream.

Nothing will change for me. bytheway 'intentional' communities can be really cool things. Google it. Study it. Not a bad way to live if you can find the right people.

[dxdem]

55. Yay.

Go UU's! Lol

[donsu]

6. I'm older then you - this is not like the 60' - this is brand new shit

this is the criminal bushgang owning the voting machines, thus owning the country.

destroy the voting machines - demand paper ballots

[Bridget Burke]

14. One current difference is the lack of a draft.

That truly radicalized many of the young people. (I was young, but it was different for girls.)

But that might change.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Don't worry...that's coming real soon.

[papau]

19. I agree - perhaps because I also am a bit aged - this is 50's like theft

of the right to vote.

And the GOP attitude is the same - as in "What problem?"

And the media backs the GOP - as it did then.

Back then folks said you can't fight city hall because the rich will find citizens who will whore for them to get a little more in trinkets than the those who demand freedom will ever get. Being a Democrat was never the way to make money in the Board Room - it was something you had to overcome to get into the Board Room.

I feel like the 60's are needed again - but without racial justice and women's rights as a flag to rally around, it will not be easy.

Heck this go round a majority of married women voted to end abortion choice - to end their personal control of their bodies.

Indeed the GOP increased the percentage of Gays and Hispanics and Jews that vote for them by 20% to the point 1 in 4 gays and 40 plus % of Hispanics voted GOP - if the "results" are to be believed.

The increase in the Jewish vote is to be expected given the PA situation - but why the GAY and hispanic increase?

I'm tired - and it is time for a nap.

[patrice]

7. Let's get creative!

We should begin to form our own private alternative economic systems, including things like progressive co-housing.

[undergroundpanther]

12. If you cannot reform or defeat the system

You can always abandon it.Abandonment is something the powers that be can't control or stop,they have no defense against it.They can't make you care, or force you to cooperate or be loyal to them.They can kill or threaten bribe or blackmail that's it. Walk away from it. If they won't play fair with you walk the fuck away from them and let the RW monsters run society,the market,everything into the ground by themselves and take the fall that comes with being a bully full of hubris and arrogance.They will suffer eventually because might makes right is not sustainable as a 'culture'.Remember the greedy,bully and control freak do not know how to care ,to love, to give to each other freely from the heart.The RW types need to bully people like us because they know they betray humanities core values and we have what tyhey lack and they know they will die and fail without us and our goodwill..

[patrice]

15. We CAN do this. n/t

[JohnOneillsMemory]

29. NO! Walking away from atrocity is COMPLICITY. Fight back with joy.

I will agree with you on the point that we must rebel by living as we choose and being joyful despite the fear-mongering fascists.

But millions of innocents are being bombed and starved and our species does not abandon the weak to die at the hands of the strong.

Working for justice is the answer to oppression. Keep it up!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. That looks nice (nt)

[sui generis]

22. oh no you can't

. . ."or any contract that can be construed to convey the benefit or appurtenance of marriage" . . .

As for my part: I will never hire another republican or conservative, and I will be quite open about it. Don't even get me started on christians, maybe I'll use a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for them.

Also, since protections for sexual orientation are eroding, I will probably also have to make sure I don't hire any of those (shudder) hetroseckshuls - I've got values you know.

I'm not a peacenik. Will wage war, and using their terms and stupidity against them.

[demokatgurrl]

8. But I NEED drugs right now!

Thanks for the great post, from an almost-old fart.

[Kali]

9. good advice

its always been a pendulum, it will swing the other way eventually.

[wabeewoman]

36. That is what is keeping me going...

knowing what goes around comes around, the pendulum swings back and forth, some people are REALLY slow learners. I am encouraged by the posts here and believe we will find some light in this darkness. I am not leaving my country, not yet anyway. And we aren't exactly alone. Half of the people are on our side. Thanks to all of you at DU-I would be really depressed without you all.

[Bonobo]

10. I think you're very eloguent. Thank you.

[eleny]

11. "...will seem a lot like the 60's to me again."

It already feels like that this morning. Thanks for putting your finger on it.
P.S. I'm a 58 year old fart myself.

[llmart]

13. Very eloquent post....

from an "old fart" woman of 55. I'm in the unfortunate situation of being married to someone who has drunk the Kool Aid during the Clinton bashing years, so I have to go outside of my marriage for someone to relate politics to. The next couple of days will be very hard for me what with his gloating and everything.

[yorkiemommie1]

73. me too

i am not speaking to my husband. He guzzles kool aid. His eyes glaze over, he goes deaf and dumb and has not understood word one about this horrid administration.

we have had horrid fights. in fact, one of the columnists at LATimes wanted to come watch the returns w/ us and do a column. there would have been nothing to write. we barely spoke to each other. i spent all night here on DU, where I have finally gotten up the courage to post after lurking for so long.

[seemslikeadream]

17. I'm hanging out here with you guys

I remember how it felt when Nixon was re elected. Ya just keep on keeping on.

[Political_Junkie]

18. You know every ageing hippy

I have ever met has told me on first glance, that I was born too late. Maybe, they were wrong, maybe I was born just at the right time.

edited for stupidly not using the spell check. :P

[merh]

21. Make love & not war!

I'm with you, we just have to keep loving and caring, they can't take that from us.

Thank you for the lovely post! :hug:

I love DU - :grouphug:

[Sydnie]

23. I also lived through it and remember

that no change happened without revolutions, whether local or national. I remember the riots of the 60's and the fear that "we" struck in the hearts of the "elders". It wasn't a process that took shape nor power overnight.

My fear for us (the oldsters) is that we have become the capitalists that Abby Hoffman warned us about. Remember -- never trust anyone over 30! We have forgotten what it felt like to wear a flower in our hair and discuss the world with a deeper well of colaboration of the minds. We forget how hard it was to win the concessions of a nation and just how poor we had to become to make it so. We have forgoten how to hold our beliefs as "self-evident" and not to compromise "just to get along". We oldsters must be the anchor but the revolution belongs to the young again.

Oh how different our world we be if the Kennedy brothers had be allowed to complete their "mission in this world".

John Kerry is that leader. He has also lived as we have lived, placing his entire life as evidence that we (those with like minds) have not ceased to exist. When money and power overshadow human needs, it is time again for a revolution of thoughts. The "youngsters" must, MUST I say, speak loud and proud and never give up.

I know I will be right there with them. I was talking with a friend (of like age) the other day and we were discussing the candidates through music. I was great to think that we would have a president that actually listened to the music that we did, way back then. How cool it would be to have a president that listened to the revolutionary music that shaped our generation with an understanding of it from OUR perspective, both then and now. It was not lost on us through this conversation that at some point in the not too distant future, we could have a president that was shaped by head-banging music. Imagine that!

[ramapo]

24. Turn inward for comfort

I'm on my way to being an old fart (49). Today is deja vu...the bitter feelings of defeat, hopelessness, a bit of rage, sadness, and a yearning for what might have been but will not.

I have always followed politics and current events, often personalizing events to an unhealthy degree. This election was the zenith for me. I invested time, money, and so much hope. It was an event that I looked forward to for four years, a chance to right the wrongs of 2000.

Instead I see my country taking a giant leap in the other direction led on by fear, greed, and hate.

It has been nearly a quarter century since the election of Ronald Reagan. We're not yet at the bottom of this long trough.

Growing up during the '60s, the future was bright with hope of progress, in spite of the serious problems of that decade. That light is very dim now and I wonder if I will live to see a resurgance.

Personally I need to heal. DU is such a wonderful place, somewhere that we've been able to share our hopes and now our sorrow. I'm torn between remaining here with all the reminders of the ugliness of the next four years and on, and just calling it quits and retreating to somehow finding some peace and fulfillment.

Bottom line is...this really sucks

[placton]

25. Amen - but

we will be dead by the time (if ever) our philosophy wins. This is more like 1932 in Germany, when Hitler took power. People power ain't gonna do it this time.

[johnnie]

26. Although I was born in 1964

I can relate to what you are saying. I had a guy here (at work) the other day ask me if I have always been a liberal. He asked it like he was insulting me. I said, "hell yes I have always been one and i will die one...it's in my blood".
As I stated in another thread this morning, if you are going to be a liberal...you are a minority and it is one long battle. We have to stay together and fight for what we want.
My philosophies of life have never been widely accepted and in my 40 years I haven't been one of the crowd yet. I have always felt like a hippie, because I seemed hip to what was really going on and not what I was being force fed.
Thank you for a great post.

[JDPriestly]

27. Been there, done that

I'm old too. Remember, if we want to form our own alternative culture, we have to drop out of the dominating, commercial culture. That means getting rid of the TV -- no cable, no evening news, no Tweety or Hannity. Don't buy commercial CDs, DVDs, etc. As long as so many of us pay attention to all that noise, it will run the country.

[wovenpaint]

28. You brought a smile to my face!

"There is a happiness in not conforming to the madness around you." Very eloquent for an "old fart", lol. Very wise words.
Ah yes, coffeehouses and music (and...) I was a "hippie freak" also, Weekends at Cambridge Common. Vietnam war protests, the Moratorium...such deja vu with current events.
Now, I have 3 children that I've raised to near adulthood, working and hoping for a better world for them. sigh.....
Today I feel shattered. I cling to the hope that JK and the DNC has the fortitude (I grew up along with JK, I'm sure HE does)to fight these neocons, PNACers, and dominionists.
Trying to hold back the fear that has gripped so many of us for so long, I pray now. I pray for my kids, for all your kids, our collective grandchildren. I stubbornly refuse to believe that the vast majority of this country thump their Bible and take the words literally. I stubbornly refuse to believe that such a majority think we're on a good path. I really hate to lose my faith.
When asked what I'd do if * won again, I said the same basically as you've said. I'm dropping out, I'm an artist, so that's what I'll BE.
I'm also a member of UU, lapsed in these recent years...think I'll go back this weekend. Thanks again for the smile. And thanks for reading my rant.

[InternalDialogue]

30. Thanks, Mountainman

DU is already one of those ways we connect. It will be happening more and more on the streets in the real world over the next few years.

We thought with Clinton that we had become a strong majority and had taken the power we hungered for, but they've flipped the system on us. It's no longer enough to get more people to the polls -- they've worked hard to cheat the rules to cheat us of our voice.

We will regroup. We will REMAIN strong. And we will not turn our backs on each other.

Thank you for your message.

[ethereal]

31. This would be a good time

to be quiet for a while, and think good and hard about what the future now holds.


Stop the negativity, stop the infighting and continue to band together. Thank you for your words, Mountainman.


If we start now planning for 2008, the world will be plenty ready for a change after another * term with no fear of having to run for re-election.




And God help America.

[jugami]

32. Thank You!

I am having a very hard day. What you wrote means an awful lot to me.

[Paranoid_Portlander]

33. The RW wants to turn the clock back to the 1650s...

... not the 1950s. Otherwise, I agree with your post, having lived thru the 1960s (born in 1943).

[Jackpine Radical]

35. Hard to pass up an old farts thread.

Yeah. I hear some notions here that resonate on my frequency. Co-ops, organic back-to-the land, sustainability, a culture of love.

[makeanoise]

34. TODAY I WEEP FOR MY COUNTRY

as someone once said...

Let us all remember that NIXON too was elected for a second term, and we know what happened to him dont' we?

He thought he could really get away with anything, well, he thought wrong, and Bush is no NIXON, mentally anyway.

So keep the faith and the pressure, and let's not give this man a blank check ever!

Peace...

[liberal N proud]

37. Show us how to get started again

I am old enough to have witnessed as a child all of the sixties.
We need the ecouragement from people like you!
Thanks man.

[Pathwalker]

38. Not with a right-wing Supreme Court.

Not until at LEAST fifty thousand American soldiers die in the Middle East,
not until students are shot and killed on an American college campus demonstrating against a newly-reinstituted DRAFT, and if history repeats itself more fully -
not until we lose a Bobby Kennedy and a Martin Luther King.

And, oh yeah - the Civil Rights Voting Act comes up for renewal soon...




Yes - I'm feeling VERY cynical today.

[not fooled]

76. Yeah, Ang...we are now on the downward spiral

Unfortunately, now the right will be able to consolidate and strengthen their power much, much more: not only control of congress & the judiciary but also state offices so they will be able to control the election process even more.

And, factor in the media propping them up (& failing to reveal their true colors)+ the lack of critical thinking skills on the part of the populace that would enable them to evaluate the admin's policies (let's face it, they won on the backs of dumb guys + religious kooks) = recipe for a slow-motion catastrophe whose full effects will not immediately become apparent.

So, not until when the pain escalates to the point that there is widespread acknowledgement of the tragedy will things change.

[meganmonkey]

39. Thank you, old fart!

:P

Don't worry. Some of young ones are freaks and hippies, and we network with each other and with the 'old farts' (I would say 'wise elders').

We won't give up on our country and our democracy that easily.

And we have a LOT of work to do!

[Hardball]

40. Errr... No.

My take is the opposite. The 60s were a collosal failure. Why? Because the lessons of Vietnam were not learned and now this country is doomed to repeat its mistakes less than half-a-century later.

Instead of making sure that those lessons were learned the ex-hippies sold out all too often and were more than willing to join the establishment when the horrors of that war were over. Instead of throwing out every elected official that supported that war they were re-elected time and time again. They solidified their power base and we are where we are today because of their failures.

Instead of believing in truth and justice, voters of today apparently believe "might makes right" and are all too willing to believe obvious lies.

Journalists and those that report the news, newspapers, radio and television, have turned away from truth. It's now all about the almighty $ folks, read 'em and weep.

In 2008 when there are MORE seniors who can't get their prescription drugs at an affordable price, when there are 75 million Americans without health care insurance, it will be too late for them to do anything about it. It will take only about 10 years to wait out the last of those irksome baby boomers. No, the 60s failed miserably because the critical lessons were never learned.

[Mountainman]

49. I understand what you are saying. I'm not saying the 60's were not a

failure. I agree with you if the measurement of that time is in how the ideals were brought into the future. They surely were not and yes many of us did sell out, maybe most of us.

I'm just saying that in the coming years, we can find some comfort and meaning by spending time with like minded people and maybe have some type of positive effect on the future.

If the 60's were truly successful we would not be where we are today I think. But then I don't know if we can judge a period in time as being a success or failure, it just was a point in time. I remember something from back then that we called a happening. It wasn't something that could be planned or that you could make happen, they just just happened and they were great events. The 60's were a happening and maybe it will happen again and maybe it will be more successful this time.

[Hardball]

54. As a happening...

OK, you put that well :) And it could happen again, I agree with you there. My pessimism is based on how much BS passes for objective truth these days. With Vietnam, there were lies aplenty but some number of people really did believe we were helping to stop the spread of Communism (flawed as that domino theory might be). The big lesson of Vietnam - in my opinion - should have been "don't think you can win a war where the people you're fighting for don't want anything to do with you".

The "failure" of the 60s, I think, actually had more to do with not showing the rest of the country why the protesters and hippies were actually onto something good and decent. In retrospect I don't really think "selling out" was as bad as I made it sound in the 1st msg. After all, peaceniks and hippies and student protesters never really did want to destroy this country, contrary to what Nixon et all thought (and many still think today). They wanted to change it. And there's nothing wrong with taking advantage of opportunity in America so being critical of the so-called sell-outs was maybe wrong on my part.

Hopefully we will see a resurgance in activism if this gross war continues much longer. There's no "family value" more important than not wanting your kids (or yourself) to get killed in a war not worth fighting.

[Mountainman]

57. I remember some thought selling out was trying to change the system by

working in the system. Others thought you could not change the system from within because once you joined the system you became part of the problem and not part of the solution. So, many who wanted to change the system from within were absorbed by it and became just like those they use to protest against. I think the thought pattern change went from thinking about the common good to thinking about your own personal good first and then to thinking about your own personal good only.

Many of us have never gone all the way to becoming a self centered republican.

[DemBones DemBones]

41. Will we be allowed to drop out? Or will they hunt us down and

re-educate us, as Mao did Chinese dissidents?

I do want to drop out. We decided last night to end our Direct TV subscription, just use the tv for viewing movies. I'll miss the Daily Show and LINK tv but I'll soon adjust. In the sixties, we lived out in the country and were only able to get PBS, and it was great. We listened to music a lot more, we made our own music, too. Time to get new strings for my dulcimer, time to find more people who like to get together and play and sing. Time to turn back into our artwork and our lives.

Good news, just heard on "Democracy Now" on LINK, Dennis Kucinich has won re-election. Dennis will keep fighting the good fight. I wish I'd written Kucinich in yesterday, instead of voting for Kerry, since Kerry's caved so quickly. Gore fought longer than Kerry. What the hell is Kerry thinking?

Truthfully, I don't know if I'll vote anymore. I voted for Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and John Kerry. Carter won one term, Clinton won two, but I had to endure two terms of Nixon (with Ford filling out his second term after he resigned), two terms of Reagan, one term of Bush I and now we'll have a second term of Bush II. Next they'll run Jeb, and he'll win. Why bother caring?

[Mountainman]

46. I live in the country now. I have 20 acres in the mountains with my wife

our 5 dogs. 3 cats and 3 horses. I hope that I can invite some progressive people to come out on weekends to sit under the trees and talk and share food and wine and play music and art and just be mellow and be happy together.

[Hardball]

59. Jeb will be next

You can count on it. The time is now to start finding the "Swift Real Estate Scammers for Truth" and getting them on-message. The 2008 campaign begins today.

[October]

42. Very cool

:hippie:

[NJCher]

43. wonderful post, Mountainman

I really needed to hear that.

And Patrice, your post has given me food for thought, too.

("We should begin to form our own private alternative economic systems, including things like progressive co-housing.")


Cher

[alwynsw]

44. TITODO.

It worked before. It can work again. Not many truly did the DO part for very long. That's why the system works so well in the long term.

This is essentially a speed bump, albeit a very large one.

[Pacifist Patriot]

45. As a UU minister I'm very happy to see this.

I would like to see UUism flourish once again as an instrument of social change like it did in 19th century America. We need to become a strong voice for the positive liberal values upon which this nation was founded.

Great post.

[Mountainman]

47. I think that this is a time that could really grow our membership

I'm thinking I would like to get more involved with UU. To turn my energies from the political to something more rewarding.

[Pacifist Patriot]

64. With UU, you can do both!

[Merlin]

48. Great thread, everyone. Mountainman, I must correct you.

You are indeed quite eloquent.

There are so many wonderful thoughts in these posts and I am so exhausted, I can't adequately put my feelings into words.

Yes it is like the 60s, but fortunately without the unbelievably devastating, demoralizing, depressing impact of those political assassinations.

Dropping out is not the answer. Communes are not the answer. Leaving the country is not the answer.

We will survive this. But it will take a generation to recover from it and to begin undoing it.

Thank God we've got each other.

Thank God and David and all the rest for DU. Let's make damn sure we continue to support it.

Thank God we've got the internet, and let's make damn sure we protect it.

We can't expect to undo the left's 30 year long sleep in a single election cycle.

We can't continue to forfeit the airwaves. We've made a meager first attempt to fight back against the right's propaganda empire, but we have so much further to go.

Abortion will be lifted from our backs very soon, clearing the single most significant obstacle to majority support for our party and for the broad sweep of its remaining agenda. The Democratic Party does not exist for the purpose of defending abortion rights. It exists for the purpose of governing this nation. The nation--with the support of evidently the majority of women--has made it clear it does not support abortion rights. It will have to live with the consequences of that stupidity. It will have to learn the lesson all over again. Meantime, our party is now relieved from the responsibility to keep throwing ourselves on this terrible sword election after election. It is now up to the women's movement to find a solution to this issue that will enjoy the support of a majority of the electorate.

We have every right to look askance at religion. But we can no longer continue to blow off the fact that the heart of our party's philosophy comes directly from the philosophy of a man named Jesus. If we don't start putting that to good use, we are utter fools. Putting it to good use means not being afraid or ashamed to use the name Jesus (not "Christ"--a title--but Jesus, a man's name) in our discussions and our political appeals. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with social philosophy and our personal moral obligations toward others and toward making the world a better place.

We are truly defeated only if we don't get back up and keep fighting.

We must never give up. Never. Never. Never.

No retreat. No surrender.

Thank you everybody on this site for your companionship, support, ideas and energy. Because of you, this terrible tragedy is so much more manageable than the many earlier ones we have suffered.

We shall overcome.

[cubsfan forever]

50. From one "old fart UU" to another:

Bless you for your poetic and eloquent message. I remember those times, too. I have been saying exactly the same thing: The thugs want to turn the clock back to the 1950s. Wow, great minds think alike! Ha! For you younger DUers, listen to Mountainman's words of wisdom. We shall need all the strength of our spirits to move ahead and eventually take back our country. In 1972, when I was a poll worker/canvasser for McGovern, I thought the world had ended when Tricky Dick was re-elected in a landslide. It didn't, and it hasn't now. Keep the faith. We will prevail.

Professor 2

PS~And if memory serves, didn't something happen to Nixon shortly after his landslide? Hmm, wonder what that was...

[Lindsay]

52. Just wanna send out some hugs to my fellow oldsters.

And youngsters as well. I'm so glad you're here...we really do need each other at times like these.

[grasswire]

53. two members of my family...

...are UU ministers, at opposite ends of the country. This morning, their talk is of providing inspiration and backbone for the task ahead. No talk of shrinking. No talk of appeasement. They're citing Paul Wellstone this morning: "Stand up. Keep Fighting."

[spanone]

56. I felt just like this when NIXON got re-fucking-elected!!!!!!!

But the mountainman speaks the truth.

[MaryH]

61. It is like Nixon! And look how that turned out!

And that gives me hope.

Trouble is - we have to have people who are brave enough to take these guys on. Because these have a bite that is way worse than their bark.

[mlawson]

77. It's like 1972, except:

then we held both houses of Congress, and there were no touch screen voting machines.

And we had only Nixon and Haldeman and Erlichman to worry with. This current bunch of criminals is a whole different ball game.

[Carla in Ca]

58. Kicking a great post...

n/t

[VegasWolf]

60. Great words, Mountainman!! Gee, I feel comforted just knowing

that there are so many of us 60's children still kicking
and fighting the system. I am always proud of my generation.

[stevedeshazer]

62. I'm with you, buddy.

Well said. I'm a lot like you.

[PATRICK]

63. America is an archipelago

of the spirit. The clock never stooped being at midnight in my thinking, but I was relaxing slightly under Clinton. Big mistake.

I am no hippy. Never had the pleasure or inclination.
I am not selling out. I am not relaxed.

The spector of the consequences of this day seem almost superfluous. I don't anticipate welcoming this future, but hey ho. In America we shed more tears than blood. Still wondering really how long that will last.

[Maat]

65. I so totally agree with all that you said, Mountainman.

I'm 45. I remember the 60's - and the 70's. I intend to surround myself with friends.

I am a Unitarian also. I also go to the Church of Religious Science (very similar).

But I make sure I hang around those who can encourage me. Don't misunderstand, I keep in touch with the opposing viewpoints, so that I can respond. But I surround myself with wisdom, instead of shit.

[sallydallas124]

66. Definitely

I've actually been saying "turn on, tune in and drop out" to myself for several months now. Everyday I'm slowly moving away from conventional society - the culture of tv, buying, getting ahead. I'm trying to be more self sustaining, doing things I enjoy especially artistic things, trying to stay in balance physically & emotionally, spending time w/family & friends. It can be hard when you're surrounded by BS, but I feel it helps keep me in touch w/what's true. One of my biggest goals is to pass on what I believe is the truth to my child, so he can carry the torch. I fear that there will be efforts to squelch what's good & right, and I want my son to be able to stand strong in the face of it.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

67. Interesting that you mention UU...

I've been thinking recently that with "faith-based initiatives" and whathaveyou, it may be time for a trek down the UU path. It'd be good to get together with people who want to help others without being disrespectful of their beliefs.

Thanks for your advice, young man... ;)

[Mountainman]

68. Well someone here at DU turned me on to UU

I was last spring or summer when the UU's in Texas lost their tax exempt status (they got it back) and there was a post here about it. Texas said that it wasn't a true religion because they didn't have a set of core beliefs or something.

A UU who replied to that thread said that yes they do have some core values and gave a web site where we could read about them.

I liked what I saw there and my wife and I went to a local UU church and after a few weeks and some orientation we joined.

This Sunday I am going to go up to the front and talk about this election and how going to the UU church will be more meaningful to me because of it.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

72. "Texas said that it wasn't a true religion"

Why does this not surprise me?

What really bugged them was the fact that UUs vote liberal!

[Cleita]

69. We need to go back to that again I guess.

We need the activism without the sex, drugs and rock and roll, which IMO diluted the cause a lot.

[The Doctor.]

70. Well, If we all just leave the Repukes to their own devices...

They will run the economy into the ground, destroy the environment, strip our civil liberties, repress free speech, etc...etc...

But they will always blame someone else for their problems.

We could:

A)All leave the country and leave them to their fate.
B)Stay and fight and provide plenty of 'homeland security' fodder for them to throw to their rabid base.
C)Stay and help run the economy into the ground by shopping at Wal-mart and investing in the Euro.

I'm for A or C

[yorkiemommie1]

71. Same vintage as you

and I heartily agree. It seems much scarier this time around, though.

..." How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see?"... Bob Dylan

[Silver Gaia]

74. From one old fart to another...

Thank you, Mountainman. I have tears streaming down my face as I type. I remember. I was there, too. Thank you for voicing this. I wish I could say more, but right now, the tears are flowing too hard, and I have trouble focusing. Just... thank you, and bless you for these words.

[Iris]

75. Please, guide us!

I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm an excellent writer. I''d love to contribute to an underground publication.

I was educated in the 70s by your "type" and I'm so sad that all the optimism from that time is lost. I remember my reading book had an African American child named Van and he was friends with the White kids. They did stuff together like I did with my White friends. I was one of the first generations to watch Sesame Street. I really believed we could all cooperate to make this country and world a great place to be.

Please bring this topic back when everyone calms down. You're right. We need to reconize one another. Let's find a way!

And, btw, I think you've convinced me to check out UU. I've been toying with the idea for a while, then considered the Episcopal church, but I just don't think that's going to do it for me. I have one friend at the local UU. I'll probably give her a call later this week.

thanks so much for your post.

[pandorasox]

79. Will we be getting the psychedelic drugs again too?

And the guides who know how to utilize them?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

80. Yet another old fart here.

Yes, it is a lot like the '60s, maybe even scarier, more fascist. But as you said, it is essential to work together for change. It doesn't happen fast, and it's tough and sometimes frightening. Sometimes the antiwar protests were violent, people got arrested or teargassed. We were not very popular. Families broke up over the war, just like now. But if you care about what's happening, as we did then, we have to do this again. I didn't think that I'd have to take to the streets again at the age of 55, but if that's what it takes, that's what I'll do. And now we have the Internet. Check this out: http://www.Nov3.us