North East Assembly

[Guy_Montag]

How would you vote if you had the chance?

Actually this is mostly aimed at The Skin (since he's got a vote), but everyone can join in.

[T_i_B]

1. Well I'm sure we can extend it...

...to ALL reigonal assemblies!

I know Yorkshire & Humberside has one, but I'm not sure if we even have one down here. Mind you, since I'm happy with having a County Council I'm not too worried if we don't have one.

[D-Notice]

2. Not sure...

What power will it have (if any)?

What'll happen to the existing councils?

Why an all-postal ballot? We had enough problems with them at the local elections in May...

[LibLabUK]

3. Hmm..

"What power will it have (if any)?"

The power to spend £431 million on an assembly building and the power to change into a dinosaur or a robot... or a robot dinosaur!

---
I don't see the point in all these regional assemblies... I'd much rather we concentrate on forming sensible policies that take the needs of the regions into account without having to resort to public relations stunts like this.

Maybe I'm just misinformed, but I've yet to see the benefit of of devolution anywhere... it's all just been a colossal waste of taxpayer's money.

[Nihil]

4. So check the pockets ...

> Maybe I'm just misinformed, but I've yet to see the benefit of
> devolution anywhere... it's all just been a colossal waste of
> taxpayer's money.

I don't think you're misinformed. Nor are you blind.

The only people to benefit from these acts of "devolution" are
the ones who receive money that they would otherwise not receive.
This includes the politicians in each assembly, their hangers-on
(sorry, "staff") and the companies that gleefully land all of the
tasty supply-chain contracts ...

This covers everything from the architects, the builders, the
outfitters, the cleaners, the drinks, food, security suppliers ...
absolutely sh*tloads of handshakes, back-slaps, nods and winks.

Don't forget that as there are now some more open mouths to feed
in the political nest, the tax income must go up ... but in order
to reduce complaints, it doesn't go up by much and so there have
to be more "savings" in other areas ... like hospitals, schools,
street-lighting, all of the little things that people don't really
mind being trimmed back ...

Nihil

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. No overall financial benefits for the countries

but I think Scottish students are happier with their funding than English ones, for instance. I got the impression that most Scots are glad to have their own Parliament - so don't be such a breadhead, man! ;-) It's not always about the money ...

[Guy_Montag]

6. I'm an ex-pat Scot

I think it's a waste of time & money. I agree whole-heartedly with what Nihil was saying.

The people that dop well are the pols & their hangers on. Not the proles. I agree Scottish students are happier not paying so much in tuition fees, but they should not be paying anything,

[Nihil]

8. Thanks!

I do wonder how much the things like student fees, healthcare changes
and so on are truly down to the regional assemblies per se and how much
are down to political ploys (on both sides of the border).

I believe that students should not be paying fees (education used
to be free) and that healthcare for the elderly should be free (there
is a genuine debt owed to earlier generations that must be repaid).
These should apply regardless of whether you live in Perth, Pembroke
or Pimlico (or even Pittsburgh for that matter!) but I think this is
getting even further off topic than ever so I'd better stop here ...

Nihil

[Nihil]

7. Point taken

> It's not always about the money ...

True (but be wary of people who say that with their hand out :-) )

> I got the impression that most Scots are glad to have their own
> Parliament

Not sure about that ... most of the Scots I've met (most of whom are
admittedly ex-pat) always qualify any praise for it with rude comments
about the waste.

I think there are two separate issues here:
The first is that any new infrastructure put in place is guaranteed to
be less efficient and more wasteful than the existing organisation.
This will be true for quite a few more years than the proponents like
to admit but is unavoidable due to the duplication, re-assessment then
rationalisation of each and every element that has been "devolved"
(i.e., not just talking about the physical buildings here).

The second is that the perception of the "devolved" region is that
they are free of control (or slightly more so) from "those bastards
in London" (to quote a rather vocal Welsh friend).

Most people outside the Home Counties harbour a resentment of being
ruled by Westminster - the degree of which appears to increase with
the distance involved. For that reason, a locally responsible level
of government is a good idea. This is why there are parish councils,
town councils, county councils and, now, regional councils.
The downside of this is that with each layer "up", the answerability
is reduced yet the cost is increased.

This is still talking about the actual government layer itself here,
not the opportunities for additional corruption, kick-backs, etc..
The latter is included, the cost increase for each additional layer
is practically exponential (and the responsibility inversely proportional).

This "freedom from remote interference" is the reason why such
local government approaches are popular: on a trivial level, the idea
of regional government is a "good thing", it's only when you stop
and think the whole thing through that the problems arise.

Sadly, too many people only ever consider the trivial level.

Nihil

[non sociopath skin]

9. Hey, you guys didn't need me!! ...

.. you've raised most of the issues without me!!!

It's a tough one. A couple of years ago I would have given anything for an assembly. Now I'm not so sure.

Yes, the democratic deficit is a problem. During the Heseltine Review of Local Government, we managed to keep a two-tier system because Northumberland is such a weird place geographically & demographically - most of the population in the rustbelt South East, lotsa sheep but few people and few roads anywhere else.

If we go for the Assembly we get either a whole-county unitary or two smaller unitaries ie number of Representatives slashed mightily in favour of TWO - COUNT 'EM, TWO - REPS on the Assembly - one of which will more than likely be a huntin' shootin' fishin' Tory from the Wild Hills of Wannie.

And it's perfectly obvious that Blair does NOT want Regional Assemblies and is NOT willing to give them real power - a factor not lost on the "No" campaign who are definitely gaining ground. The LibDems are in favour at the moment, but I suspect that Bonnie Prince Charlie isn't too enthusiastic about subsidiarity either, when the chips are down. And like my mam says, if Metro man Sir John Hall, the ultimate robber baron is for an Assembly, it can't be all good!

Got my papers. Dunno,dunno - instinct right now is to go for the Assembly and the two Authorities. Democracy, don't you just love it???
(sigh)

The Skin :hangover:

[Atlanticist]

10. I've got a vote too - both the missus and I voted No

'fraid electing another tier of second-rate politicians doesn't appeal at all. If Ray Mallon and John Hall are both in favour, it doesn't auger well.

I'm very much in favour of regionalism, but this will be an assembly with no meaningful powers at all. Come back with a proposition whereby the regional assembly can actually affect the lives of us north-easteners, and I'll maybe think again.

[non sociopath skin]

11. As I said in my post, in our case it wouldn't be another tier...

... we'd keep two. And sorry to hear that you feel that all North East politicians are second rate including, presumably, the ones you vote for. Maybe you feel that the "No" campaign was right to run its affairs from London, where the first-raters are?

A colleague of mine, when we were both second-raters on our District Council, used to smile sweetly at the bar-room politicos who moaned about the low quality of councillors and explain to them that he felt it incumbent on him, as a good citizen, to keep the seat warm until such a time as they felt it was time to give the District the benefit of their wisdom...

Seems silly, but what finally convinced me to vote "for" was the thought of that smug grin on Michael Howard's face if it was a "no" vote.

The Skin

[Guy_Montag]

12. If we get an assembly...

do you think we could have a (very, very quiet) spin off forum. It might just be the three of us& we wouldn't have much to talk about, but that would be symbolic.

[LibLabUK]

13. Ahh....

"but that would be symbolic"

Would it cost £450 million to implement?

[non sociopath skin]

14. Not if we use an already-existing forum ( maybe one in Durham?)

The Skin

[Guy_Montag]

15. Durham is too publicly funded already

Top four employers in Durham

1) Uni
2) Prison
3) Hospital
4) Passport office

If we get the assembly it will also push up house prices even further out of my reach. Not that I'm bitter, actually I'm very bitter.

[Atlanticist]

17. Hey Guy, we share the same tag-line!!!

What're you doing in Durham ? - I have fond memories of my student days there in the 80's, avioding lectures and trying not to get beaten up by the toughs from Ushaw Moor, Sherburn etc etc (and that was just the lasses!!).

[Guy_Montag]

18. I work at the uni.

But even so I still have to avoid the toughs from Ushaw Moor, Sherburn etc.

[Atlanticist]

16. NSS - I should have used the word "mainly" in front of

"second-rate". My view, from watching the NE News is that many of our locally elected politicians can barely put together a coherent sentence, which , I'm afraid, colours my judgement of their abilities somewhat. Wifey has spent a considerable part of her career mixing with local politicians firstly in the transport arena, then policing and then health, and she's confirmed my view that many are very second-rate. I'm sure some of our local politicians, yourself included are first-rate, and indeed many at Westminster are second-rate.

The point at issue is will an elected assembly actually achieve anything? I understand the political class (yourself included ?) favour an assembly - more gravy, but I don't see why council tax payers should spend hundreds of millions of pounds just because it'll make Michael Howard miserable.