If Al Franken runs against Norm Coleman, what are his chances...

[Eric J in MN]

...of winning?

[scarletwoman]

1. I'm truly not happy with the idea of Franken running.

Can you imagine the kind of attack ads that the repugs will mount against "Stewart Smalley"? Will the general public be able to see Franken as anything other than a New York comedian? We already had a pro wrestler for governor, I don't think Minnesotans will have much enthusiasm for another "celebrity" candidate.

I can personally appreciate Franken's sincerity, intelligence and grasp of the issues -- but I'm a political junkie who's been tracking his transformation from SNL writer/performer to outspoken liberal commentator for over 4 years now. For the non-political junkie public, however -- what will they make of him? Will they consider taking him seriously at all?

I'd REALLY prefer seeing someone else run against Norm in 2008. I have no idea of who it should be, it's just that the thought of Franken doing it really worries me.

But that's just my opinion...

sw

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. I'm also unenthusiastic about Franken

Sure, he has name recognition, but it may be NEGATIVE name recognition among rural and suburban voters.

How about somebody with an understanding of what is now called "Greater Minnesota," like Becky Lourey?

[scarletwoman]

3. Becky Lourey! YES!

I LOVE her! Thanks for bringing her up! I was sitting here stumped on who would be a more viable candidate than Franken -- just shows how burnt out I am right now that Becky (whom I know personally) didn't immediately come to mind.

Time to find out if she's given the idea any consideration...

sw

[Bjorn Against]

4. I was thinking the same thing...

except my concern was no so much with rural and suburban voters, I actually think he would probably be a very popular candidate. Remember he was on during many of the good years of SNL when people still enjoyed watching it.

My concern has more to do with his stances on the issues, if you listen to his radio show the guy can take some fairly conservative positions once in a while.

I like Al Franken as a person, but Becky Lourey is not only a great person but she is also much stronger on the issues. I would definately support her if she ran. I will support Franken if he gets the nomination, but I don't think I will support him in the primary.

[dflprincess]

5. There's a whole lot of voters who have come of age since Franken

was on SNL - unless they've caught it in repeats.

I hope we find someone other than Franken. Lourey or Ford Bell come to mind for me.

[CrazyForKucinich]

7. I second both of those nominees

To the person nominating Hatch(in response to someone saying Lourey no less). Shame on you. The past does not need to be repeated.

[northernsoul]

10. on this, we agree

I don't think that trying to retread Hatch in 2008 is a good idea.

[CatholicEdHead]

6. Neither am I

Hopefully someone more local can be found.

Should Mike Hatch run for US Senate?

[indigo32]

8. I hope not

Ummm no.. Mike Hatch shouldn't run for Senate.

I'd like to see Becky Lourey run

[dflprincess]

9. Hatch has never expressed much interest in the Senate

he always had his eye on the governor's house.

[CatholicEdHead]

12. What about Dean Johnson?

I think he was mentioned on KARE 11 last night as he was considering it.

[Bjorn Against]

15. Johnson carries too much baggage

The little flap with his comments about the MN supreme court killed any chance he may have had. Yes, it was overblown but it was a still a very stupid thing for him to say and it damaged any chance he had for higher office big time. Plus he is far too conservative for my taste, and I don't think he really has the ability to get people excited.

Lourey would be my first choice, although there is still plenty of time for others to come forward.

[CatholicEdHead]

17. Lourey may be seen or portrayed as too far to the left

for the general population. While that label was tried to be applied to Amy it did not stick, but it will stick much easier with Lourey. Her Camp Casey trips come to mind. While it was a good thing to do, it can easily be spun as a major negative in many peoples' eyes.

[PrimeRibGuy]

48. Remind me sorry,

was Becky Lourey the one who was involved in the whistleblower deal?

If so, didnt she just lose in a congressional race?

[scarletwoman]

49. You're thinking of Colleen Rowley, former FBI agent.

Becky Lourey used to be a state senator, she gave up her seat to run for governor. She lost the endorsement to Mike Hatch at the state DFL convention but kept her name on the ballot for the Primary election, which she also lost (unfortunately).

She's a wonderful, progressive activist politician, and was one of the prime movers in creating the Minnesota Care program.

Btw, her son ran for her vacated state senate seat and won.

sw

[PrimeRibGuy]

50. Thank You

I couldnt figure out why we wanted to push for Becky when she just lost to that idiot hatch.

[scarletwoman]

51. Becky Lourey is popular because she's a principled progressive in the Wellstone mold.

Her main drawback in the governor's race was that she didn't have a very big statewide campaign organization -- not enough $$$.

sw

[dpbrown]

11. He is doing everything necessary to become local and not "Stuart"

His radio show, his moving to Minnesota...everything he does is to set him up for the showdown with Norm.

If a stronger candidate comes up next year, so be it. I am not opposed to Franken, however.

As he says, if he wins, Minnesota will be represented by a New York Jew who was actually born here.

[katinmn]

13. I like Al Franken. He's a visionary. He brought us Air America.

Air America ain't perfect and neither is Al. But who is, dammit?

I don't agree with him on every issue but I trust him and I believe he will fight for the little and the middle people.

[wellstone dem]

14. My three favorites

Kelly
Lourey
Johnson

[Eric J in MN]

16. Can you give us all their full names? NT

NT

[goodhue]

28. It is Kelley, not Kelly

And yes, Steve Kelley is very likely to run. I prefer Becky.

[wellstone dem]

36. whoops, and I know that and still got it wrong. thanks nt

[MinnesotaMike31]

18. Al Franken was HUGE in helping Tim Walz get elected in southern MN!

I think Al would be great! Let's look at his backround a little bit:

-born in New York City into a Jewish family,
-grew up in St. Louis Park, Minnesota,
-he graduated in 1969 from The Blake School
-attended Harvard University
-graduated cum laude in 1973 with a Bachelor of Arts in government

-served as a Fellow with Harvard's Kennedy School of Government at the Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy
-became the first nationally syndicated radio talk show host to visit Iraq, where he headlined two USO shows
-has done five USO tours to date


Al is a GREAT speaker, debater & seems to speak plain english to people, not the political talk most politicians use. I believe the younger voters would come out to support him in great numbers.

Tim Walz used him down in southern MN & look how that turned out. By having Tim win down there I think the DFL & Al have made some good in-roads that need to be capitalized on.

Just my very quick thoughts.

[Bjorn Against]

19. There is no doubt he is a great campaigner and fundraiser...

he proved that in this election. Given his hundreds of hours of radio broadcasts and his books there is going to be little question as to where he stands on the issues either. Unfortunately it also means there are a LOT of things the Republicans could attack him on. Considering that he is a comedian however the public will give him a certain license to say things that they may be offended by if they were said by someone else.

I guess the bottom line is that Al Franken would be a good candidate, although I am still not convinced he would be the best candidate. I am convinced however that he will run, so it will be very interesting to see what happens. If he does get the nomination then I can not wait to see him debate Coleman.

[scarletwoman]

20. On "Almanac" tonight (TPT channel 2) one of the names

of possible 2008 MN senate candidates that came up was Mike Ciresi. Made me go hmmmm...

I don't really know enough about him to have an informed opinion, I've only ever seen him once; a couple years ago on that same channel 2 "Almanac" program. He was debating some Rebublican hack and utterly wiped the floor with the guy. He seemed wonderfully articulate and intelligent and I was really impressed -- I really liked the guy.

But as I say, I really don't know anything about Ciresi. I lived outside of Minnesota for many years, and only started paying close attention to Minnesota politics in 2002. I will defer to those who know more about him.

The other name (besides Franken) that was brought up in this evening's discussion was Judy Dutcher -- ugh. I just plain don't like her. I've met her, spoken with her, heard her give speeches -- and I absolutely do not like her.

So, however much I deplore a Franken candicacy for the 2008 Senate seat, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat over Judy Dutcher.

sw

[katinmn]

21. Judy Dutcher came across as clueless: E85.

She didn't add anything to the gov ticket and may have taken away.

[scarletwoman]

23. She was singularily unhelpful.

I didn't actually see the debate/interview where she flubbed the E85 question -- but geez, how out of the loop do you have to be to not even be familiar with the term?

As I said in my post above, I just plain don't like her. I don't like her personality, I'm unimpressed with her speaking skills, and I find her general attitude unattractive. I fervently wished that Hatch had chosen someone else as his co-candidate.

Maybe she would have been a competent bureaucrat, but she really added nothing to the ticket. And I do think her E85 fumble definitely hurt Hatch's campaign.

sw

[dpbrown]

33. In Dutcher's defense, she was ambushed on the E85 question...

...as I understand the situation, she was having a detailed conversation with a bunch of people about some educational something-or-other when a FOX reporter asked her about E85. Her bewilderment, in context, was thinking for a minute if this was some kind of educational acronym. By the time she realized that the question was completely outside of what everyone had been talking about, the reporter, who had been filming the encounter, replied that he "had enough" and later broadcast the exchange to portray her as clueless on E85, which she's not, since her father has apparently had something to do with agriculture or ethanol or something like that.

While she might have been quicker to realize what was going on, the way it was portrayed in the media was not at all what had gone on.

Hatch's outburst hurt the campaign more.

[scarletwoman]

37. Ah. That makes more sense. As I said, I never saw the exchange, I only read about it.

From your description it was obviously a "gotcha" setup -- that's a shame. I still don't personally like her, but it's just a "vibe" thing that happened when I met and talked with her during the 2002 campaign.

I think you're correct that Hatch's temperment was his real downfall. Btw, did you read Syl Jones' column about Hatch in the Sunday Strib "Opinion Exchange" section today? Really twisted the knife regarding Mike's temper. Syl was pretty damn merciless -- he's obviously way pissed off that Pawlenty got re-elected and really blamed Hatch for fucking up.

Thanks for clearing up the Dutcher thing -- what a drag!

sw

[Eric J in MN]

22. I hope there are at least two big names in the Democratic primary...

...to give Democratic activists a choice.

[scarletwoman]

24. I'd like to know what others think of Mike Cerisi.

I could see a good primary contest with him and Ford Bell, for example.

I still love Becky Lourey best of all, but have no idea if she'd be interested in national office. I don't buy the "too far left" crap -- presented correctly, her ideas are really down-to-earth and common sense. And with over 2/3 of the country polling against the Iraq war, being anti-Iraq war is hardly a radical position these days.

sw

[northernsoul]

25. I know him professionally

I don't really have an opinion one way or another right now, but here are some factors that may be in play:

1) He has enough money to self-finance a run for endorsement / primaries, and will not be outspent in a general election.
2) He absolutely, positively will not take any shit from Norm Coleman or anybody else. Good luck to anybody who thinks that they can swift-boat this guy.
3) I think he might have some problems making a personal connection with the activists who show up on caucus night. He actually comes from a blue-collar background, he's dedicated his legal career to fighting for regular people, but an unfortunate side-effect of his professional success is that he will probably come across as "slick" or "establishment" to liberal activists.
4) My guess would be that his position on many issues will be perceived as "centrist," whatever that means these days. Once again, this may make it hard for liberal activists to warm up to him in the endorsement process, but could also be an asset in the general elections.
5) The guy's a damn good advocate and strategic thinker. It wasn't by accident that he was the first person to take on Big Tobacco and win.

[scarletwoman]

26. Everything you've listed makes me like him as candidate even more.

I'm a far left old hippie, but I've got enough sense to know that no one like me is going to be elected for national office. I have no problem with that. If I find myself in a dilemma that falls within the purview of the "establishment", I don't go looking for another hippie to solve it, I look for someone who knows their way around that realm.

I am SO over letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. That doesn't make me "centrist", it just makes me pragmatic.

sw

[dpbrown]

34. Related to the "establishment" thing...

...way before Franken had a radio program, he used to come to Saint Paul to fire regular people up on door-knocking nights. He's paid his dues in the shoe leather department, as far as many on-the-ground activists are concerned.

[northernsoul]

43. Who? Ciresi or Franken?

I'm not the brightest bulb in the drawer sometimes, Dan, which one were you referring to?

[dpbrown]

45. I was referring to Franken

My apologies for not being clear.

[dflprincess]

30. I would prefer we not have a primary

a good contest from caucuses through the state convention - but after that all of us behind one candidate. Of course I know that's easy to say now when we don't know who the candidates will be.

Normie's going to be doing a lot of tap dancing and will probably manage to fool a lot of people and he'll be the incumbant. I'm afraid he won't be as easy to beat as Screech - or even as easy to beat as the weasel would have been this year. Unless he's polling awfully low, the RNC will fight like rabid dogs to hold onto his seat. If our primary was in June instead of Septemeber it wouldn't be such a big deal, but I'd hate to see us spend all summer fighting each other rather than concentrating on getting rid of Coleman.

[Eric J in MN]

31. Why doesn't Minnesota have primaries in July? NT

NT

[dflprincess]

32. Current state law puts it in September

and the law would have to be changed to move it. July probably wouldn't be a good month. Primary turn out tends to be low enough without scheduling during the biggest vacation month of the year. May or early June would make more sense.

[Eric J in MN]

35. If primaries were in July, people who want to participate in the primary...

...could schedule their vacations for another day or vote absentee.

[scarletwoman]

38. May seems like it would be a good month. The Caucuses are in March,

that would give candidates plenty of time to make their case for a May primary. With a DFL controlled state legislature, maybe we should start a movement to have the primary election date switched?

sw

[northernsoul]

42. Was anyone else surprised at what a poor candidate Screech was?

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy is dumber than a bag of hammers. But I thought that he would at least be marginally competitive. Boy was I wrong!

[goodhue]

27. His chances are pretty good, but I'd prefer as serious progressive candidate

Unless Franken changes his positions on things like . . .

health care reform (he does not support single payer),

international trade (he supports NAFTA-type agreements, is opposed to trade "barriers"),

war and peace (he does not support immediate withdrawal from Iraq, supports current military spending levels, thinks dept of peace and other peace promotion funding is naive)

I certainly won't be caucusing for him at the March 2008 precinct caucuses.

I would be pretty excited about Becky Lourey as a Senate candidate.

[Eric J in MN]

29. I've heard Al Franken say when speaking in public,

(paraphrase) "Dennis Kucinich supports a Department of Peace. That's a pretty good idea, right?" to applause.

So I'd say Franken supports the idea of a Dept. of Peace.

[krispos42]

39. Isn't that what the Dept. of State does?

It's when State blows it that the Pentagon is call up, right?

Irregardless, we can't really lower Pentagon spending right now. Even if I was able to click my heels and bring home all the troops and their equipment now, it would still be a multi-year effort to repair, refit, and replace all the thousands of vehicles used, not to mention replacing spent weapons and other equiptment and training the replacements for the wounded, disabled, and retired. It will be a multi-year challange. We would save oodles of cash by not dumping it into corrupt companies and people, but we'd still have work to do.

I think that once the occupation of Iraq is over, there will be a modest surge in enlistment as people who wanted to join but specifically were against the war in Iraq will finally take the oath.

[scarletwoman]

40. May I suggest that you read Kucinich's argument for a Dept. of Peace?

So you can understand what it's about:

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/departmentpeace.php

Department of Peace

The United States was founded on hope, optimism, and a commitment to freedom. We can once again become a beacon of hope for the world. To do that, we must reject the current administration's policies of fear, suspicion, and preemptive war. It is time to jettison our illusions and fears and to transform age-old challenges with new thinking. This is the idea behind my proposal to establish a Department of Peace. This is the idea to make nonviolence an organizing principle at home and abroad and dedicate ourselves to peaceful coexistence, consensus building, disarmament, and respect for international treaties. Violence and war are not inevitable. Nonviolence and peace are inevitable.

We can conceive of peace as not simply the absence of violence but the presence of the capacity for a higher evolution of human awareness, of respect, trust, and integrity. We can conceive of peace as a tool to tap the infinite capabilities of humanity to transform consciousness and conditions that impel or compel violence at a personal, group, or national level toward creating understanding, compassion, and love. We can bring forth new understandings where peace, not war, becomes inevitable. We can move from wars to end all wars to peace to end all wars.

Citizens across the United States are now uniting in a great cause to establish a Department of Peace, seeking nothing less than the transformation of our society, to make nonviolence an organizing principle, to make war archaic through creating a paradigm shift in our culture for human development for economic and political justice and for violence control. Its work in violence control will be to support disarmament, treaties, peaceful coexistence and peaceful consensus building. Its focus on economic and political justice will examine and enhance resource distribution, human and economic rights and strengthen democratic values.

We must change the metaphor of our society from one of war to one of peace. The Department of Defense now requires in excess of $400 billion for its activities. A Department of Peace can be an effective counterbalance, redirecting our national energies towards nonviolent intervention, mediation, and conflict resolution on all matters of human security.

A Department of Peace can look at the domestic issues that our society faces and often ignores as we focus on matters internationally. We have a problem with violence in our own society, and we need to look at it and address it in a structured way. Domestically, the Department of Peace would address violence in the home, spousal abuse, child abuse, gangs, and police-community relations conflicts, and would work with individuals and groups to achieve changes in attitudes that examine the mythologies of cherished world views, such as "violence is inevitable" or "war is inevitable." Thus, it will help with the discovery of new selves and new paths toward peaceful consensus.

The Department of Peace will also address human development and the unique concerns of women and children. It will envision and seek to implement plans for peace education, not simply as a course of study, but as a template for all pursuits of knowledge within formal educational settings.

Americans have proven over and over again we're a nation that can rise to the challenges of our times, because our people have that capacity. And so, the concept of a Department of Peace is the vehicle by which we express our belief that we have the capacity to evolve as a people, that someday we could look back at this moment and understand that we took the steps along the way to make war archaic.

Violence is not inevitable. War is not inevitable. Nonviolence and peace are inevitable. We can make of this world a gift of peace which will confirm the presence of universal spirit in our lives. We can send into the future the gift which will protect our children from fear, from harm, from destruction.

sw

[krispos42]

41. Ah, thank you n/t

[Demrock6]

44. What about Tim Walz?

A straight talking progressive prairie populist who has appeal in both blue and purple areas of Minnesota?

[Eric J in MN]

47. It's too soon for Tim Walz.

Walz will be starting his first term in the House in January.

If Norm Coleman wins in 2008, then perhaps Tim Walz should run against him in 2014.

[election_2004]

46. Another vote for Becky Lourey, here....

Lourey would be able to connect with voters much more effectively than Franken.