Swift and Company Marshalltown Raid

[DU9598]

I just watched WHO-TV news coverage in DSM about the raid in Marshalltown. I have to admit that I was both angry and distressed by what the cameras witnessed and the stories that were told. I am very concerned about the children of people affected - as well as concerned about the people who have worked hard and will lose all of their worldly possessions, their homes, pay, legal rights to workers' compensation benefits, accrued vacation pay, etc. What will happen to children who were born in the US, but whose parent's were not? What will happen to people taken to Mexico who have no family, possessions, or support system in place there? Will we being heairng any of their stories? I doubt it greatly.

What is often missing from intelligent debate on immigration matters is what is legally required for someone to become a legally documented worker or a full citizen of our nation. I know it was not difficult for my foreign born grandfather (or my other immigrant family members) to arrive in the US in 1907 and become a citizen, almost by default. How has the process to enter the US legally changed in the past 100 years? What is often missing from our "immigration debate" is an understanding that "legal" immigration to the US is impossible in our current immigration system and therefore we force people to break the law if they have any hope of a better life here - something my grandfather likely would have done in 1907 if the current laws were in place back then.

Let's not forget how many employees the state of Iowa is short today, let alone how many we will be short in 20 years if demographics continue.

Six busloads of workers today from Marshalltown are gone - who knows to what conditions. How many small businesses in the city and surrounding towns will not survive with their customer bases gone? Does a raid like this help the interests of anyone? I suppose it could assist the unions - if any of our unions were still powerful and had the ability to turn the Swift jobs into the high paying jobs of 30 years ago ... but none of us are naive enough to think that today's federal actions will help poor American citizens gain higher paying jobs or more union protection under the current federal labor laws and conservative stacked federal courts.

Anyway ... just my rambling with tears in my eyes for all of the heartache amongst the children, mothers, fathers, brother, sisters, and others in Marshalltown. May God watch over them all ... someone has to.

[pstans]

1. I am a teacher in Marshalltown

I teach 2nd grade and I had 2 students pulled out of my class during the day. Other teachers had kids leaving crying. I don't know how many kids altogether were pulled out at my school. I am worried about if the 9 Hispanic students in my class will have anyone home when they get home from school.

My school has the fewest Hispanic students out of the all of the elementary schools in town. I will check with friends who work at other schools. It will be interesting how many students aren't at school the rest of the week.

I agree with all of your sentiments. Marshalltown is a growing community because of the Hispanics. Main St. would be a ghost town if it wasn't for the Hispanic grocery store, dress shop, clothes store, bakery, and restaurants.

I have heard that it costs the government close to $10,000 to deport someone. That is a lot of money that could be better spent to improve people's lives.

I will post with updates.

[DU9598]

3. Thank you

Please PM me if there is anything I can do to help the children or others up there.

[Counciltucky]

7. How does it cost $10,000 to deport a person?

I don't mean to sound cold at all -- these are families that are being torn apart here -- I just wonder how it costs that much. The paperwork, transportation, and labor all combined doesn't seem to warrant costing anywhere near $10K.

[pstans]

10. I don't know if that # is right

Just what another teacher told me. It is probably the budget of the Immigration Enforcement divided by how many people are deported.

[IA_Seth]

2. Amen

I haven't been able to see the reports, but these things bother me as well. I have a tough time balancing my conflicting feelings on illegal immigration and it's impacts, but there has to be a more compassionate way of handling the situation.

Who could possibly blame a impoverished (and that's a poverty that we simply can't understand) Mexican who wants to provide for their family? I'd certainly do the same in their shoes. No one chooses where they were born, and it's more than unfortunate they have to break laws to earn a real living.

The impacts to small businesses around Marshalltown is something worth looking into, it is certainly something that is ignored in most illegal immigration discussions. Then again, the fact that they are humans with children and families is also often overlooked.

yeah..i am rambling to. I feel ya!

[Debi]

4. Obviously I have concern for the workers and for their families...

I wonder what will happen to the business that lures these individuals to the plants? Will they receive a minor fine that might cut into their profits a little (having them pass their losses on to their employees)? :grr:

[DU9598]

5. Scales of "justice"

Why do I think that Swifts will save more money in accrued wages (hourly earnings, vacations, 401k's, work comp, etc.) owed to the deported workers than they will ever be fined - if they are fined? Isn't that the way this usually works?

The UFCW came out with a strong statement condemning the tactics of the Feds ... apparently the Feds came into the plant in full riot gear and roughed up workers and it was reported that they made workers stand for 6 hours in work gear - no sitting or changing into non-work clothes. I hope that Iowans react in a civilized manner and hopefully Iowa was ready to step in to protect the children and others who need immediate assistance, including small business owners in the communities surrounding Marshalltown.

[Debi]

14. Good thing the Government came down so hard...

Otherwise these people may have kept.....gasp.....WORKING!! :wow:

Riot gear and violence has always been a necessity to stop me from doing my job...:eyes:

[rurallib]

6. Heard that Swift claimed no knowledge of employees status

Surprise! I bet that's all Swift will have to do.
No doubt this was done for show to prove W is on that 'illegal alien' stuff.
Not like W or any of his compadres have any care about families or communities or doing things right for that matter. If this raid has the success of all the other crap the FBI has done in recent years, these folks will be let go but their lives will be ruined.

[Counciltucky]

8. Why punish the businesses?

:sarcasm:

[Debi]

13. I read your subject line and was JUST ABOUT to go off on you..

Thank heavens for the :sarcasm: icon!!! :hi:

[Counciltucky]

19. HAHAHA...

You don't know me that well if you actually think I'm going to defend businesses which do nothing but take advantage of people. ;-)

[Debi]

26. You're right, I don't know you well enough

You're always locked in the PM Room.......:blush:

But I'm getting to know your sick sense of humor! :P

[Blue Gardener]

9. I do feel sorry for the children

They have no control over the situation. However, if the parents are here illegally, and using stolen or fake identification, what do you propose the government should do? I don't think allowing them to continue to use false ID is a valid option. There are legal ways to remain in this country. My co-worker and good friend's husband is from Mexico. He just spent nine months away from his wife and children because he had to go back to Mexico while his application for permanent resident status went through all of the proper channels. It certainly wasn't easy for him to be gone for so long, or for her to support the family on her paycheck alone. They did it because he wants to be here legally so they don't have to worry about him being deported.

[DU9598]

15. Legal ways to remain in the country

I have to disagree with that assessment as it relates to most of the persons affected yesterday. They are here to work. The INS-ICE did a good job of framing this issue as protection against identity theft ... but that is a crock of crap. The "stolen" identities are not used to get credit cards or run up cell phone bills ... they are used to work. It is a question whether there are any "victims" from the identity theft because in most instances the only impact is that the "victim" is credited more to social security than was earned.

Our nation is building fences and has changed our laws to make it almost impossible for families from Mexico and Central America to come to the United States for more opportunities. However, the same national policies have created an economy that relies upon these laborers.

I find it highly immoral to continue these two policies when it leaves us with the horrors that occured yesterday to hard working, low wage earners and their families. And what timing right before Christmas and on the day of The Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Finally, let me say that I am sick of Iowans in media comments saying if they had only played by the law ... that is a cop-out and ignorant. The law needs to be changed ... its a matter not only of the economy but also morality.

[Blue Gardener]

25. So you wouldn't mind sharing your SS number?

I prefer not to share mine with anyone, for whatever reason.

I agree that the laws need to be changed. I really have no problem with immigration, and I think putting up a fence is completely insane. However, stealing SS numbers for other people to use is simply not an option in my book.

Flame me if you want, but I will never agree that identity theft is a solution to anything.

[DU9598]

28. Dont mean to flame you

But how do you propose that these people work here at the current time? Do you somehow deny that our economy can survive without them?

I have to give my social security number out all of the time to my employer and to the government. Why is it so hard for the two to work together to confirm who is using a number?

It's all framing these people to be criminals and it makes me want to puke.

[Blue Gardener]

29. I don't think they are the real criminals

The real criminals are the ones that smuggle them into the country for huge sums of money, and not caring what happens to them once they get across the border. I realize the ones that got arrested most likely bought the identification papers from these same people. The crooks making money off of the immigrants desire for a better life are the ones that should be in prison.

[Critters2]

32. Meatpacking is hard work, but Swift and others don't want to pay

what the work is worth. Instead, they underpay and hire undocumented workers. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they had to pay a living wage for this work. I believe citizens and legal immigrants would be willing to do the work, if the pay were commensurate with the job. Underpaying workers drags down all wages and lowers the standard of living of everyone--especially those in communities with large numbers of underpaid workers.

Far from helping our economy to survive, I fear the hiring practices of Swift, DeCoster and others damage our economy. Workers--whether legal or not--should be paid what their work is truly worth. The employers get around this by hiring those desperate enough to work for less than a fair wage. And we all suffer.

Of course, all of this occurs so that Americans can have cheap meat. Those of you who eat meat should expect to pay what it is really worth--the true cost of production. But that would drive up the price of dead animal flesh. Can't have that! So, we exploit workers, instead. So your hot dogs don't cost too much.

[DU9598]

34. Legal Immigrants

Aren't those the doctors or computer scientists from Asia? I don't know very many legal immigrants who get to come here from Mexico.

[Critters2]

36. You don't know any legal immigrants from Bosnia or Sudan?

I do. There are a lot of these in Iowa.

Number from Mexico are limited partially because of the large number of illegal immigrants who come here from Mexico. I've discussed this with government officials, and they tell me that the numbers from Latin America (and specifically from Mexico) are limited to give those from other nations an opportunity.

[DU9598]

38. War refuges?

Is that all that we consider "legal" these days? Maybe a Mexican civil war should occur if that is how our nation determines if we let people come to our nation to produce and manufacture our food sources. I guess we also let Cubans in ... but they stick around Mexico, and seem unwilling to come up here and chop up our hogs.

[Critters2]

42. My ancestors were refugees. I thought that was the point--

the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, and all that.

[Critters2]

31. If a person uses another's Social Security number

and money is placed in the account corresponding to that number, the IRS has the right (indeed, the obligation) to try to get income taxes paid on the earning for those FICA contributions. It can be a real mess, and a legal nightmare for the victim of identity theft. It is not a victimless crime.

[roody]

40. Poor people cannot come here legally.

[9119495]

11. Not one fucking Swift manager was arrested.

Why didn't they raid the offices and homes of the Human Resources officers of the company? I don't want illegal immigrants taking advantage of the system but I equally will not allow the system to take advantage of illegal immigrants. Maybe our next congress will actually pass some terrible penalties for employERS and get something passed or actually embarrass bush by making him veto it.

[IA_Seth]

12. No responsibility...

I heard on KCRG news last night that the company will not be held responsible for anything, although "the investigation continues".


What bullshit.

[Debi]

16. What???? Undocumented workers???? We have no idea what you are talking about

[warrens]

24. Here's what Chertoff says

Swift tipped off its employees and 400 quit suddenly a week ago. So they sped up the raid to catch as many as possible. The illegals are supposedly just a side effect to the stolen identity employees.

Coincidentally, he renewed his call for more access to the Social Security data base by DHS. Surprise, surprise.

It appears that Swift was singled out for getting uppity.

[Critters2]

33. Well said...

but don't hold your breath. I'd be curious to see what kinds of political contributions Swift makes.

[roody]

41. Taking advantage of something

and working at a meat packing plant just don't seem like synonyms.

[DU9598]

17. From Dailykos

<http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/12/13/102040/03>

Interesting point that the meat packing industry already had christmas hams shipped out and was close to layoff times.

[pstans]

18. The day at school so far

I teach 2nd grade. Yesterday, I had 2 students pulled out of class early. This morning one of them came up to me and told me that he had to leave because the police were going to come and take his dad to jail. He said his dad was hiding and didn't have to go to jail. I asked if his dad was at home last night and he said he was.

Then I had another student tell me that his dad didn't have papers, but was at home and is ok. He then asked me why the police want them to go back to Mexico.

[Debi]

27. Ah, Man that's rough!

What do you tell 7-year-olds? :hug:

[Counciltucky]

20. What about this as a solution to the illegal immigration conundrum?

My idea: Every illegal immigrant has to register with the INS. They can then EARN citizenship by doing community service -- 15 hours a month for two years, to throw out an arbitrary amount. This could be beneficial on so many levels.

[DU9598]

21. Solution

It's not something required of my grandparents, but I bet you everyone affected yesterday would accept this as a solution. It is sure better than any other alternative that I have heard.

[IA_Seth]

22. I'm conflicted

I guess to me it sounds like indentured servitude, but perhaps since these people are technically breaking a law by being here it would be acceptable.

It would sure provide a lot of labor toward public projects.

[Counciltucky]

23. EXACTLY, on the last part.

That's kind of what I'm looking at. And that's what I'm looking at in terms of breaking the law -- it's making up for breaking it. It's earning citizenship after coming in the wrong way.

[Critters2]

30. A parishioner of mine has had someone using her SSN for employment

She learned this when a Social Security statement showed more earnings for one year than her w-2 showed.
She is now working with the Social Security Administration, and they're being helpful. But the IRS is being very nasty about all this. They want income taxes paid for all that money she didn't actually earn.

While they won't say a lot about who has been using her Social Security number, an SSA worker told her that the wages came from an industry known for using undocumented workers.

She is completely panicked about the IRS's continuing threatening letters and demands for back taxes. All of this has caused me to think long and hard about my attitudes about immigration. I must admit that I see identity theft for the crime that it is. And it makes me angry.

Oh, and be sure to read those SS statements, and contact them RIGHT AWAY if you find a discrepancy. And contact the IRS, too.

[DU9598]

35. SSA and IRS

Didn't the employer take out taxes from the earnings? If not, your friend should find out who the employer was and request that they make restitution via the IRS.

[Critters2]

37. I don't know. An accountant (also a parishioner) tells me this happens

more than you'd think. She warns people all the time to call the SSA the minute you get an inaccurate statement.

She also says that if the number of dependents on the two W-4 don't match, the one listing fewer will have less money taken out for taxes, but the IRS might come after the one with fewer dependents listed for back taxes.

My parishioner who's being pursued by the IRS has no dependents, so only a personal deduction. The other seems to have listed several dependents. Thus, a disparity in the amount taken out.

[DU9598]

39. Odd situation

Having studied tax law it seems a bit odd to me, but perhaps the whole government has been mucked up by George's mismanagement. I would tell your friend to contact an attorney if the IRS is questioning her or demanding anything from her.