Does San Diego Need A Newer, Bigger Airport?

[question everything]

Does San Diego Need A Newer, Bigger Airport?

May 18, 2006
10News.com

(snip)

Numerous sources told 10News said it is already a done deal even before voters go to the polls in November. As San Diego soars into the future, we will definitely need more airport capacity. How much more? The figures vary. Much of it depends on San Diego’s growth. “Our forecast will add close to another 1 million people between now and 2030,” said Dr. Jeff Tayman of the San Diego Association of Governments... According to the tracking reports, about three quarters of the population growth will occur in incorporated cities. The growth in San Diego and other established cities along the coast and inland along Interstate 15 would increase demand for airport services, which are already stretched.

“We have about 270,000 operations at Lindbergh. I liken that to a hotel operating at 85 percent capacity,” said Airport Authority vice president Paul Nieto. Nieto and the Airport Authority, joined by other business leaders, believe San Diego must expand air services. Local business leaders said it is a reality the city will have to deal with.

(snip)

Critics say some members of the Airport Authority have ignored the most obvious and practical choice -- Lindbergh Field. “We have spent over a million dollars per base, studying bases but there are no figures available for studying Lindbergh Field,” said Mary Sessom of the Airport Authority... Economist Richard Carson said forget the hard sell. He said the city does not need the mega airport being pitched for the Miramar Air Station. Carson said San Diego now has some of the lowest airfares in the U.S. That would change if the city spent $7 billion on a new airport.

Guess who picks up the tab? The traveling public picks up the tab, in the form of higher passenger facility charges. An average $250 ticket would cost an extra $25 to $50. The irresponsible thing that has been done no serious look at how Lindbergh would work has been undertaken. Sessom is concerned Lindbergh will not get a fair hearing with continuing march on Miramar... The military is opposed to any sort of civilian airport deal at Miramar. Apparently the Airport Commission sees it as the big blip on their radar.

(snip)

http://www.10news.com/news/9241728/detail.html

[tularetom]

1. It needs to have an airport in a different place.

I'm never as scared on an airplane as when landing in San Diego. You feel like you could reach out and shake hands with people on the balconies of their high rises that seem to be right next to the runways.

[cboy4]

3. My friend flies a Boeing 767 wide body for United and

says he loves the "challenge" of landing there with all of the buildings and distractions...especially when it's foggy/overcast! :scared: LOL!!!

[Timmy5835]

2. The answer is NO

Remember, San Diego is a destination not a hub. San Diego is too close to LAX and John Wayne. For that reason big flights will never come to San Diego...even with a bigger airport.

[IndyJones]

4. I agree with you.

[PatGund]

5. One word - yes

And the best place for that? Miramar. Large runways, room to expand somewhat, tied in to freeways, and can be made very mass-transit friendly (both Trolley and Coaster)

Problem is that the flight paths include La Jolla, Del Mar, Scripps Rance, and Rancho Bernardo. Some of the most expensive real estate in San Diego. And the well-connected, well heeled NIMBYs there have a lot of money and political pull to shoot down the idea.

Which means they will dither and dither and dither and nothing will be done. Meanwhile the county is running out of more and more choices.

[maveric]

6. Miramar is a Marine base. Brown Field might be a better choice.

Brown Field is by the border and away from the busy traffic areas. Plenty of runway room, plenty of room for parking, and its not so densely populated. Just a few industrial sites and two prisons.
Miramar in a MCAS and I dont think that commercial flights would be allowed there in this day and age.
Plus the traffic is allready terrible in that area. Think of how much worse it would be.

[PatGund]

7. Problem with Brown

Too close to the border. And Otay Mesa is the current developers boom area.

Miramar would have to be transfered to civilian control to use as an airport. Problem is that the developers own San Diego, and the second it left military control, they would have the NIMBY's tying it up so they could put more condos on it.

An even better solution would have been a high speed rail link between San Diego and a proposed airport at ex-MCAS El Toro, but the NIMBY's and developers shot that down in flames.

[Oerdin]

10. Brown Field doesn't work either under current law.

It's just to close to Mexico so the standard industry flight pattern won't work. Now if San Diego and Tijuana were to work together to make a bi-national airport then Brown Field would work fine. Given the current anti-Mexican feelings in Congress though I don't see such a cooperation actually happening. And don't misunderstand to get a binational airport we'd need agreement between the US Congress and the Mexican Congress.

[Zorro]

8. Miramar is the only reasonable alternative

Centrally located between 2 major interstates. It's noisy enough with the current air traffic there. NIMBYs won't like it, but the air station has been there for over 60 years, so it isn't as if they weren't aware of the airfield.

It's still relatively undeveloped east of Miramar, so there's not much impact on folks out that way. Outbound traffic to the west would only cross over a couple of miles of residential area, but that's not much different from the takeoff patterns from Lindbergh over Point Loma.

[Oerdin]

9. Miramar is out.

It would take an act of Congress to get the Marines out since a 1996 law already makes duel use illegal. Our own local Congressional deligation is split on this so don't look for a unified front there either. Yes, Miramar is a red herring and a dead end.

The real question is given that the city already owns the land west of the current airport and that the Marine Corp has offered to lease the city land on MCRD to expand the runway at Lindbergh there really is room not just to expand the existing runway but also build a second runway. So there is room at Lindbergh. The development industry doesn't like that idea though because they can't wait to make the hundreds of millions turning Lindbergh Field into "Condo City" will make them. In the end expanding Lindbergh is the only option but the development industry (which really is the special interest group which controls this city through bribes) wants to try to push Miramar in some vain hope that Congress will order the Marines out of one of only 3 large bases they opperate in the whole country. That isn't going to happen.

[cascadiance]

13. As a Mira Mesa resident I guess I'm one of those NIMBY folks...

... Though as a renter, I suppose I could move at some point too.

I think trying to reroute 15 and perhaps 163 and 52 could also be a big deal for traffic problems here too, and make it just that much harder for the area to sustain population growth and commuter traffic in the years to come. As a resident after 9/11, one was concerned about the location of the nuclear power plan in San Onofre just a bit north of here off of the coastline, and it's vulnerability so close to the border here from some attack by divers from off shore here, which has been speculated on over the last few years at times. I think I've felt more reassured by the presence of the jets from the base at Mira Mar minutes or less away that that sort of attack would be less likely, or for that matter, any kind of 9/11 style attack against downtown San Diego buildings/bridges, etc. from Mexico too.

I wonder if these developers who perhaps might find a good place for the Chargers to move in the outskirts of the city, might team up with airport site planners and find an area that they might use for both the airport and a new stadium. Of course I wouldn't advocate any extra money from the city or municipality to fund such a stadium, but perhaps those development efforts might reduce the costs of a bullet train, etc. being bult to that location from other areas here.

[Oerdin]

11. Also...

First the Navy in the 1980's and then the Marine Corp over the last five years conducted multimillion dollar studies and concluded that duel use just won't work because of the need for seporate air traffic zones Miramar, the proposed mega air port, and Montgomery field (Montgomery Field's air space and flight patterns currently butt up against Miramars yet developers want to shoe horn in a third field?). Secondly, if an airport were built there not only would the Marines have to shut the base because they wouldn't be able to use their air field but then both the I15 and the 52 freeways would have to be rerouted to go around the mega-air port.

So what's the impact of this? First off it would be a major economic hit to north county because the Marines are the single biggest employer in the area. No base equals no Marine contracts and no Marines spending money. The base also represents the last bit of undeveloped coastal plain in San Diego which makes it a highly important ecological resource. If the base goes, and two military studies over 20 years have said it would have to go if a new airport were built, then you can kiss that last little bit of native grassland, coastal sagebrush, and raparian creek habitate goodbye. There are at least three endangered species that I know of on the base which would also likely die out without this habitate and we haven't even begun to count the nonendangered species which require large open spaces to survive such as mule deer, mountain lions, and who knows what else. Make no mistake if the base goes then the Miramar area will turn into a subdivision over night.

It just doesn't make sense to destroy or local economy and our local environment to build a mega-airport when we don't need a mega-airport and when there is already room to expand at Lindbergh. We're a destination not a hub. Lastly the politicians' estimate of $70 billion to build a new airport is grossly under the real cost and all the accountants have said $150 billion will be the real cost. We don't have that kind of cash, the city is on the virge of bankruptcy because our Republican mayor and city council cooked the books Enron style. Not only is duel use illegal by act of Congress and the Marines won't give up one of only three big bases they have but building a new airport just doesn't make sense financially, economically, or ecologically for our city.

[IndyJones]

12. Thanks for the info.