DUers Who Think Dick Cheney Won...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I can see how some folks can be mesmerized by Dick Cheney's Mr. Know It All routine... Our close family friend is a trial lawyer who handles medical malpractice cases so I have the opportunity to sit in on many trials and see trained and skilled professionals lie their asses off... I have seen my share of lying witnesses but I have never seen anybody lie as shamelessly and effortlessly as Dick Cheney.... He fits the classic definition of a sociopath... He knows right from wrong but doesn't care....


This ability to lie without any remorse or regret allowed him to parry many of John Edwards charges....

[Florida_Geek]

1. I'm sorry I thought it was a tie until

the pictures of Chaney/Edwards started hitting the net and knew that Dickie bold faced lied..... Edwards won on TRUTH...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I Admit I Can't Call These Things Because I'm Biased...

but Cheney is an unusually good liar...


I don't think I have seen anybody lie so effectively...

[Libby2]

2. Yep, I totally agree.

At least with Bush, you know that little slime is lying, from his demeanor.

Cheney is on point,lies and all.
Bush is busy worrying about the audience reaction. IMHO

[Jon8503]

3. You got that right but when you have a good trial lawyer who has

been up against the Cheney's before, the lies become exposed as they did last night.

I really liked it when Edwards mentioned the one case he won for the little girl and her family against a corp that had known of 12 examples before the case Senator Edwards took.

We need good trial lawyers like Edwards and your friend. There is no way the average person such as myself could go up against the health care industry or other corps that violate the laws to the publics detriment.

People need to understand that the trial lawyers give us a great service. The only negative I can think about them is they should police their own more and throw out the bad ones that are damaging their good name.

[nickinSTL]

4. Question is, how do we determine 'winning'?

If it's on truth, Edwards DEMOLISHED Cheney.

But, realistically, truth tends to not be too important.

What matters is how the average American saw them, and the average American isn't going to think too critically about whether they told the truth (since most think all politicians lie all the time)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Perception=Reality....

In the political there is no objective truth...


It's frustrating..

[Democrat 4 Ever]

9. I actually thought Edwards had won the debate by a slim

margin immediately after the debate. But I re-watched the debate on C-Span last night (after listening to caller comments - most very pro Edwards) and got a completely different perspective.

Think I went in to the debate expecting fireworks and bombshells that would quickly point out who had a better grasp of the issues. That isn't Edwards or Cheney style, but, after lying aside the desire for one moment when Cheney would go down in a huge ball of flames I realized that Edwards did an exceptional job of debating the points on this campaign. The only pin prick that Cheney managed to get it was the lame line about never meeting Edwards. Cheney showed his venerability by making such a broad statement. He had to have known that someone would dig up something to discount that remark and slam it back in his face before he got out of the debate hall. Thank you Elizabeth Edwards. The 10 second jab will echo again and again over the next several days as his lie is recounted repeatedly.

I did expect lightning to strike Cheney during the debate when he said he had never connected Al Qeada and Iraq. Do what? Really? Roll the tape boys. All of it. Everyone make yourself comfortable.

Edwards did exactly what needed to be done. No nasty barroom brawls, just a nice, polite confrontation highlighting this administration lies.

[Francine Frensky]

7. I think cheney's about to be "gored"

It may appear a draw, but by the time all of cheney's lies are exposed, that will be people's lasting impression.

Also, I think edwards got more soundbites into this debate than can be used down the line. The part about believing in work vs. wealth was GREAT, as was that list of cheney's pathetic votes while in congress.

Put that on a big poster at your local nursing home: cheney voted against meals on wheels for seniors.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Great Point...

It's easier to win an argument when you don't have to worry about the facts...

[Fire]

10. Why should I trust Kerry-Edwards?

(I'd like to make a separate post about this but the forum won't let me)

When asked straight up if he supported gay marriage last night Edwards repeated the right wing party's line that marriage should be between a man and a woman. Why should I trust them in foreign policy if they're not willing to stand up against bigotry at home? I was very disappointed and that question is making me reconsider voting for nader or moving north.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Because If The Republicans Get In They Will Send Gay Folks To Guantanomo

O K ... That's a bit dramatic....

I define marriage as a union of two people who love each other but I'm not running for president....

The American people are not ready for gay marriage... Let's give it time.... There's no sense in getting too far ahead of the electorate...

[Democrat 4 Ever]

12. Is that the only issue that you are concerned with?

I think some people keep looking for that one perfect candidate who will meet ALL of their needs. Not going to happen. I wish Kerry/Edwards would come out in support of marriages for gay couples. I personally think it is just fair for people to have the same benefits and privileges that hetero couples enjoy with health care, etc. This isn't a deal breaker with me, tho. There are so many, many more issues that as a voter I have to consider.

Compromise is something that has been missing from Washington for the last three and half years. You have to get your guy elected first and then you can tackle all the battles - both big and small. You can't even begin to address them with Bush/Cheney in the White House. And if you think the GOP doesn't have some nasty surprises waiting for us should they win again - they have a president who can not run again and a vice president who doesn't want the job - so they have nothing to lose by cramming all kinds of right wing nut stuff down our throats.

But, it that is your most important issue, and it is a deal breaker, you need to vote for the candidate that best represents your views. That is what democracy is all about.

[Jokinomx]

13. If that is the only issue that you are concerned with... go ahead and vote

for someone else. Tens of thousands are being killed in an illegal war and your ONLY upset because of the gay marriage issue. Give me a break. You sound like a freeper with the single issue mentality.

btw.. welcome to the DU.

:kick:

[Fire]

14. Thanks. Way to reach out there.

Thanks. Way to reach out there.

There are many other issues I'm concerned about. I voted for Kucinich in the primaries. I want to end war built on lies in iraq along with the war we have going on here at home: The war on drugs. I want healthcare and a minimum standard of living to be accessable to all americans and to be free from the religious right theocracy.

This issue though makes me question whether or not Kerry and Edwards are truely sincere.

[sangh0]

16. Go "Thanks. Way to reach out" yourself

You post about how untrustworthy Kerry and Edwards are based on nonsense, and you wonder why no one will "reach out" to you.

Practice what you preach.

(BTW, "marriage is between a man and a woman" is NOT a republican or right-wing idea. Many Dems and many liberals agree with it)

[Jokinomx]

17. They are politicking.... To come out and say... they are 100 percent

in favor of gay marriage would be political suicide. This is the only reason that the repugs have brought it up in the first place. To get Kerry and Edwards to isolate themselves from the religious right.

It just sounds like a small issue to be considering voting for someone else when so much damage has been done to our world with our current leaders.

:kick:

[GreenArrow]

24. I'm with you on all those other issues

I too voted for Kucinich in the primaries. He did not resonate with the American people, in good part, because when they did have a chance to see him, he was far too forthright with them.

I'm anything but excited about Kerry/Edwards, but that is who is running, and who has a chance to win. They cannot be worse than the current regime on these issues, (maybe as bad on the criminal and wasteful drug war) and they are likely to be much better.

Politicians generally aren't about sincerity, they are about power. They do what is necessary to acquire and maintain it. I don't look to politicians for sincerity or charisma; I look for honesty. I'm often disappointed, and in an ordinary election, I'd likely vote third party or abstain. But I really want to see Bush repudiated, in a conclusive way. For once in my life I find myself voting for a candidate in the hope that he is LYING, and will actually take an approach different than what he has proposed on the campaign trail.

[CatWoman]

15. Why should DU entertain your inconsequential musings?

:shrug:

[GreenArrow]

26. the same could be said of anyone else on here

Sounds like something Barbara Bush would say.

[Auntie Bush]

27. Don't forget your coat and mittens.

[951]

18. I only have one message for those DU'ers...

GO FUCK YOURSELF!

[Forkboy]

20. That's right,anyone who doesn't agree with me can fuck off

Fucking people with differing opinions! It's fucking unAmerican I tell you!

[951]

23. I totally fucking agree

Fucking unamerican DU'ers supporting the fascist Dick Cheney what the fuck are they on, Cocaine?

[Forkboy]

25. I'm not suprised that you agree

[paulk]

19. I didn't think Cheney won

but I initially thought it was closer than I do now. If you just go on style, Cheney pulls off the "wise grandfather" role pretty well - it's on the 2nd listen, when you realize that every other word out of his mouth is a lie, that one realizes they've been had.

Cheney is the slickest liar I have ever seen - and the kind of bald faced lying he does can be pretty hard to combat. When I later listened to the debate rather than watched it I realized that Edwards had "won" the debate going away.

Hopefully the media will stay on Cheney's lying this time around.

[David Zephyr]

21. Edwards Won...And I Had My Doubts.

I began to breathe about 2 minutes into the interview. My worries about Edwards never materialized. He won the debate on substance and style. Hands down.

[chaumont58]

22. What really counts is that after Bush's shit house performance,

Cheney had to do much, much better than Edwards, and he didn't. I think Cheney lied his ass off, but he is a competent politician. The man he works for itsn't. Edwards is a competent politician. People can quibble at the edges about who won the debate. I think Edwards won, but Cheney did not embarass himself the way Bush did. It doesn't matter a whole lot. Its a two day story.

[MsMagnificent]

28. Cheney's pungent whoppers makes each word suspect.

There is NO WAY he can be considered the winner when it's obvious he can't tell, or doesn't care about, the difference between a truth and a lie

Edwards therefore won by default
--although I think he won even if Cheney told the truth, but that's just my subjective take.