I just want some clarity in regards to health care debate...

[vaberella]

The Baucus Bill is not the final bill correct? It is just one of 5 bills and this is the one that's currently going through voting in the Finance committee, correct? I ask this because I noticed that post after post seem to in some way indicate that the only bill we will have on the table is the Baucus Bill.

Further more, and please someone let me know if I am correct; Did Obama not say that when the Finance Committee votes on this bill we will see a merging of all five of the bills? So, when the final vote occurs it will be on one bill and not necessarily the Baucus bill (as a whole) or the HOuse bill (which I prefer) as a whole? So when this merging happens, and due to the AIHP report and a few statements made by Weiner, we can safely assume there will be a Public Option on the table along side meaningful reform in other places? Another point, in regards to the PO, besides the President's staunch support and saying in the past that he will not vote for any bill that doesn't have a PO, and also the support of the American people, media personalities like KO with NAFC too boot and the recent news of a baby not being allowed insurance because of a pre-existing condition at birth, oh and the AIHP's dirty report...the PO is basically a Yes.

I ask this, not because I don't know....since I do. But it seems something that's forgotten in regards to some of the news on the Baucus Bill. It seems to me people are so fixed on it that they can't see that this a legislative process that is still underway. It's not like the Senate is voting on the Baucus Bill, my understanding is that ONLY the Finance committee is voting it....Am I straight on the facts? If not, please clear up some of it for me.

[Eric J in MN]

1. Merging the two Senate bills is probably what will happen next.

HELP bill - weak public option
Finance bill - no public option

[annabanana]

2. It sure sounds to me like you've got it right. All the noise and

MSM coverage of the Baucas bill has make it seem like it's the final say. Of course it's just one more step along in the procedure and people should chill and look a little deeper into the issue.

[vaberella]

7. Okay that's what I thought. n/t

[Parker CA]

3. Finance Committee passed bill, yes. Now it will be merged with the HELP bill,

and then merged with the three committee bills from the house. Lots of work yet to be done.

Orin Hatch thinks this is the end of the world, that single payer is now imminent, and that the world is coming to an end.

[msallied]

6. If he feels that way...

Then I am happy.

[Parker CA]

10. It was hilarious. And after the pukes all finished their rants, they asked for questions from the

press, but NO ONE asked anything. How much more irrelevant can these people become? They're done, and they're going to be on the wrong side of history.

[jenmito]

14. There was a protester yelling something at them, and then Cornyn asked if there's anyone in the

PRESS who has a question and there was nobody. :D

[Parker CA]

17. The lady was asking why they pushed single payer off the table from the onset

and didn't even give it a chance. They all looked flummoxed and then started to disband as they realized no one in the room cared anymore. Finito.

[jenmito]

21. That's right...

it was a funny sight to behold. The Repubs. are acting like this is the first step to Socialism/Marxism/Communism/etc. I love it.

[HopeOverFear]

19. I know, that's a good sign.

[vaberella]

20. I knew there were 5 bills altogether but people seem to focus on just 2 of the bills.

And I heard Obama say it was to be merged with the 4 other bills. Thanks. I know the work is gonna be crazy. The amount of negotiations and all that. Wow.

[msallied]

4. If ever there was a litmus test for people's non-understanding of the American legislative process

This is it. And I admit with all of the shit flying around (and with the media joining in the fray), people are definitely going to be confused. But as far as I know it, you have it right. The Finance Committee bill isn't even CLOSE to what the actual bill is going to be. There are the other bills to deal with. This is merely getting the ball rolling. That we were actually able to get a bill OUT of committee is HUGE and is a precursor for things to come. It's not going to look anything like the bill that ends up on Obama's desk, when it's all said and done.

We are moving forward, and we're farther along this process than we've ever been. But we are far from the end. I just wish people would keep their damn heads.

[Hello_Kitty]

9. Sadly, I disagree.

The Baucus bill may not be the final thing coming out of Congress but I predict what eventually does come out will look a lot like the Baucus bill.

There will be a mandate, and no public option.

[msallied]

12. On what basis are you making this prediction?

[Hello_Kitty]

13. 40 years of life in America, where corporations rule and people don't count.

I predict there will be no public option in the final bill.

[msallied]

18. Okie doke. So no actual facts then. Just a "hunch."

[Aramchek]

15. ignorance + arrogance

a volatile combination...

[vaberella]

11. Thanks, this is what I thought.

I was getting a bit confused, or second guessing what I know based on some of the of the threads I see on this board. Like one talking about the "death of health care reform." I'm not liking the amount of misinformation. Because if people on DU are basically pushing the wrong information it could give a small smidgen of what will happen to the American people...since I consider DUers at times a bit more informed than most in regards to the political dialogue.

[Oregone]

5. "the PO is basically a Yes"

What PO is a yes?

We don't know. Its existence isn't a litmus test on the acceptable or progressive nature of reform. That depends specifically on the makeup of the final PO, as well as the other measures in the bill.

As of now, a cheer leading crew, as well as a the peanut gallery, are absolutely premature.

[vaberella]

16. I'm not a cheerleading crew.

I realize that the PO does hang in the balance, however I find it to be leaning more along the lines of a yes, considering it's made it through 4 of the 5 bills currently running around. Of course the strength of it is debatable and I'm sorry to say that I think the PO will always be subjective because some people will always lean closer to something more aligned with single-payer. So in the end, there will never be 100% consensus on that one issue. However as I noted, I would like everyone's input on this matter and clarification...the cheer-leading comment was just uncalled for and unnecessary especially if you want to shed light. I don't need snide comments, it doesn't help the debate or discussion.

Edited for spelling.

[Oregone]

22. It wasn't aimed at you

But at people dancing at the impending success of the legislation. No one in the public sphere has any idea if the final PO will mitigate the effects of the mandate by allowing universal, affordable access to the public option for any and all Americans. So, while I tend to think the final bill will have a PO (Ive thought that for months), I have NO IDEA what it will look like and if anyone should be happy about it.

A lot of what has happened has created perceptual momentum towards progress. But, that could be a detriment if the final bill appears to be net regressive on the wealth, health, and social mobility of the average American, and there is no time to stop its passage.

Right now, people need to remain unattached, attentive, and informed of the process, as well as advocating a best case scenario. Though, celebrating and pressuring them to pass anything won't necessarily be helpful.

[vaberella]

25. Oh I fully agree with you.

My goal now is to pressure them to push for meaningful things. Like, I definitely want this mandate crap lifted...I'm not to pleased with it. I understand the mentality but I don't think punishing people will help. But then again I don't agree with giving out the subsidies for those who need a bit more to cover their costs---technically it works like a public option (without the name---but I find it not to be cost effective in the long run). I'm also pushing for an open public option...unless of course your job is providing you with adequate health care, so I'll compromise on limiting to those without employment provided health care.


But yes, I agree with you 100%. I'm definitely concerned about the final bill but at the same time I do take the president at his word he would not sign a bill without a public option. However, how meaningful it is definitely going to be a battle. But I'm also concerned where dental care falls into this and those who need to see specialists (like myself)....well to many things to look at and fight for.

[lyonn]

26. Your post was useful to me

Since I just got through watching the hearing and vote, your questions and thoughts on those questions were pretty much what bothered me. For instance, I suppose just getting this out of committee was important without giving the store away to the repubs. So thanks for throwing this out here for discussion.

Not cheerleadings, just hopeful as hell.

[avaistheone1]

8. Bill now goes to reconciliation which Harry Reid presides over...

so I am not expecting much improvement.

[jenmito]

23. K&R on to the Greatest page so people can read and get informed.

:hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

24. I'll help you keep it kicked. :)

:hi:

K&R

[Blue State Blues]

27. It's not safe to assume anything about the PO

This is one step in the process, and an important one.

But if you want the final bill to include a PO, or what the PO will actually be, or to lower the penalties for the mandates, or include provisions for the quality of the coverage, or not have a cadillac tax, or any specific item in any of the bills, this is not the time to think it's all over. This is the time to make noise. A lot of noise.