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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:04 AM
Original message
I think Sen. Russ Feingold deserves our thanks, not our condemnation for...............




I think Sen. Russ Feingold deserves our thanks, not our condemnation for

calling a hearing related to czars. No doubt he has been confronted by questions related to this in his recent town hall meetings. In reading some of the articles about the hearing, I think he had valid concerns about Senate over site of these positions. He also talked about this hearing being important in the sense that this hearing was a legitimate place for discussion rather than the cable news.

Feingold called as witnesses five constitutional scholars to address this issues. The outcome: "In Senate testimony, constitutional experts say the president has the right to appoint independent advisors as long as the distinction between practical and legal authority is rigorously maintained."


I can't help but think that Feingold knew this before the hearing as he is no novice when it comes to constitutional issues as many of you know. But regardless, I believe he has put this issue to rest--or at least helped to do so in a site (Senate hearing) that legitimises the outcome.


Feingold is a strong Democrat and I, for one, am glad to have him in the Obama administration. Equating him with Beck and other loud, vile repugs is wrong, just plain wrong.
I thank Feingold for the Senate hearing. I wrote him a short snail mail letter to thank him.




.................................


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/czar-wars/

................But while the criticism aimed at Obama appointments that do not undergo the scrutiny of Senate confirmation has been viewed as largely partisan, it is gaining a little traction among Democratic lawmakers as well. Aides to Senator Russ Feingold, Democrat of Wisconsin and the chairman of a Judiciary subcommittee on the Constitution, suggested that he’s leaning toward holding a hearing on the topic. And Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California, wondered aloud to Politico this week what exactly a car czar does.

Senator Feingold dispatched a letter outlining his concerns to the White House this week, as did six Republican senators in a separate missive. While they acknowledged that past presidents, including Mr. Bush, employed a number of advisers who were sometimes called czars, Mr. Feingold, who is running for re-election, said he had been hearing concerns at his town hall meetings about the number of top aides in this White House.

In a statement, Mr. Feingold added: “I felt that these people have a point, and of course the use of so-called czars didn’t begin with the current president. There is a serious constitutional issue here, and that is whether the appointment of ‘czars’ is an end-run around the advice and consent process. The White House ought to respond to legitimate questions and recognize that providing more information in a calm and reasonable forum might be a more productive approach than engaging in a political war of charges and countercharges.” .....................


...........



Panel finds no fault with Obama system of policy 'czars'
Source: LA Times

In Senate testimony, constitutional experts say the president has the right to appoint independent advisors as long as the distinction between practical and legal authority is rigorously maintained.

Reporting from Washington - Five constitutional experts testified at a Senate hearing Tuesday that President Obama's extensive use of policy "czars" is legal -- as long as the officials do not overstep their authority.

In a city where power is carefully hoarded and monitored, Obama has drawn complaints from Congress about his use of these so-called czars, officials he has appointed to coordinate environmental, health and other policy areas among various departments.

Lawmakers in both parties have sent letters to the White House saying the officials' appointment circumvents Congress' authority to confirm top executive branch officials and subject them to oversight hearings.

But the panel of constitutional experts testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on the Constitution did not support the complaints. .................


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-czars7-2009oct07,0,3535667.story





..............................................

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/07/senators-take-on-the-czar-wars/


October 7, 2009, 8:00 am
Senators Take On Czar Wars
By Kate Phillips
Senator Russ Feingold held his promised hearing on the constitutionality of so-called czars in the Obama administration on Tuesday afternoon, winnowing away at a list of criticized appointees in his effort to examine whether the Senate’s advise-and-consent role was being circumvented by the executive branch.

.................And in this polarized climate, the word has taken on a meaning of its own. “I should note that while the term czar has taken on a somewhat negative connotation in the media in the past few months, several presidents, including President Obama, have used the term themselves to describe the people they have appointed,” Mr. Feingold said. Then he ventured into the turf of his hearing on the substantive issue of executive power vs. legislative roles:

“But historically a czar is an autocrat, and it’s not surprising that some Americans feel uncomfortable about supposedly all-powerful officials taking over areas of the government. While there is a long history of the use of White House advisers and czars, that does not mean we can assume they are constitutionally appropriate.

In expressing disappointment that Obama aides didn’t see fit to appear, Mr. Feingold took a swipe at the administration’s public strategy of batting back these charges over the air or in the public arena of blogs or TV. (Anita Dunn, the communications director for the administration, picked apart the Glenn Beck hit list of 32 czars a few weeks back on the White House blog, which has of late become an online war room for taking on its nemesis, Fox News and in particular, Glenn Beck.)

“The White House seems to want to fight the attacks against it for having too many ‘czars’ on a political level rather than a substantive level,” Mr. Feingold said. “I don’t think that’s the right approach. If there are good answers to the questions that have been raised, why not give them instead of attacking the motives or good faith of those who have raised questions? ”....................




http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/61889-gibbs-mocks-czar-hearings#thecomments-form-message

Gibbs mocks czar hearings
By Eric Zimmermann - 10/06/09 06:09 PM ET
The White House was not impressed by the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearing on czars today, if press secretary Robert Gibbs's comments were any indication.


The hearing, entitled "Examining the History and Legality of Executive Branch Czars," was chaired by Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.), one of the few Democratic critics of Obama's "czars."

"I don't know if Senator Feingold is calling Franklin Roosevelt to be a witness," Gibbs quipped. "I forget the...said lofty scholarly title of said hearing."

Republicans have criticized the White House for appointing too many czars that don't require Senate confirmation. Democrats respond that previous presidents--including Republicans--have made use of so-called "czars."


"I would assume that Congress and Senator Feingold have more weighty topics to grapple with than something like this," Gibbs added.................
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. If Feingold is such a swell guy, where was he when Bush was "czaring it up"?
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yea, thats what I don't get. I like Feingold, but he is being really weird on this.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think it has only come to a head now and
Feingold wanted to put it rest. But you can ask him yourself.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. Why is it coming to a head now when this thing started with Nixon and GWB went nuts on it.
Surprisingly it's really when it's O that we have an issue. So don't give me this weak argument. I like Feingold but sometimes he doesn't make sense and in this case, he doesn't.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. ask Beck et all. But, I contend that Feingold did the right thing.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
47. This panel did put it to rest but where's the grandstanding in that?
Crossposted from LBN..

RamboLiberal (1000+ posts) Tue Oct-06-09 11:30 PM
Original message

"Panel finds no fault with Obama system of policy 'czars'"
Source: LA Times

In Senate testimony, constitutional experts say the president has the right to appoint independent advisors as long as the distinction between practical and legal authority is rigorously maintained.

Reporting from Washington - Five constitutional experts testified at a Senate hearing Tuesday that President Obama's extensive use of policy "czars" is legal -- as long as the officials do not overstep their authority.

In a city where power is carefully hoarded and monitored, Obama has drawn complaints from Congress about his use of these so-called czars, officials he has appointed to coordinate environmental, health and other policy areas among various departments.

Lawmakers in both parties have sent letters to the White House saying the officials' appointment circumvents Congress' authority to confirm top executive branch officials and subject them to oversight hearings.

But the panel of constitutional experts testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on the Constitution did not support the complaints.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4093035

So you can continue to beat this dead horse..whatever.


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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. Start by passing it around and posting it on sites --all sites. Get the message
out instead of whinny about a good Dem.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. In the minorty, with the rest of the Democrats n/t
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Baltoman991 Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. He had time
before Bush left office to do something about it. Democrats took control in 2007 yet nothing from him nor Lieberman about the Czars.

It's grandstanding bullshit.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Is that all you got. It was not really an issue back then. The
repugs and Beck crew made it an issue.

I hope the hearing outcomes can be used to conteract Beck and his vile. You can do your part by passing it around and making it visible.
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Happy to hear Feingold gets his orders from Fox News
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Feingold has strong principles and anyone who knows his
work would not say what you said.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Oh Brother...
You really don't know the first thing about Russ Feingold.
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Baltoman991 Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Bullshit!!!
He had just as many "Czars" as Obama so please stop with the defending of Fox News and Feingold. Bush had Czars. Period. End of story.

Why wasn't it an issue back then?
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. The number of czars was not really the issue
although it might have been a peripheral issue. Go back and read the reasons why Feingold had concerns please.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Because it is good that a Democrat preempt a Republican in doing this.
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 11:42 AM by tabatha
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I had not thought of it that way. Thanks for your post.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Where was Obama? He was a US Senator also who could
have raised the issue. But he did not.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. I applaud him... and I also believe the whole thing was planned. I love it.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Here is another post I just found right after I posted this. I think
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. yeah, but evidently there's only room for one chessmaster in the democratic party..
honestly, the IDIOTS calling out Feingold on this can just piss off.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. 11 Dimensional Chess!
Funny how the Feingold Cultists tend to call Obama supporters cheerleaders.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. feingold cultists..
how lovely. yay team.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. It's considered 'cool' here to bash Obama supporters
as cultists and cheerleaders.

Payback is a female dog.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. i don't think it's cool..
however, it's a little alarming that he would appear to be beyond any criticism, regardless of how legitimate it may be. there's a not so fine line between supporting Obama, and bashing ANYONE who offers up any criticism. IMNSHO, the haters and the "cheerleaders" are a very vocal minority. most people realize that just because a politician sports a big D behind there name that it doesn't exclude them from criticism. i also think that Tabitha is spot on in her analysis, thus my chessplayer comment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8689831#8690035
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. He certainly deserves criticism on LGBT issues and
he certainly had a bad July-August (he also had a bad July-August in 2008). He probably should have been more aggressive in his stimulus negotiations.

But, one can point out those things without saying stuff like "Obama is a coward who hates poor people and the fact that he doesn't do what I like is proof."

A lot of people have been chiming in defense of Feingold here by saying, it's Feingold saying it, ergo he's right.

No one has mustered a defense of this issue on the merits.

There has been some '11 Dimensional Chess' theories, but one would think if his intent were to help the Obama administration, he would have let them know.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I would think a smart poster like you would figure that out
buy his reasoning for having the hearing and his comments. There is no need for him to make a pronouncement about it.


.........There has been some '11 Dimensional Chess' theories, but one would think if his intent were to help the Obama administration, he would have let them know
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. more name calling by you. But nothing constructive to contribute.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. Lieberman also wants to look into Obama's Czars
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 10:29 AM by Cali_Democrat
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I saw that. But I wonder
how their committee will counter the testimony of these constitutioal experts that appeared for Feingold. ???




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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. I want to look into his ears.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Eww.
I apologize that my fine state gave you guys Loserman.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. That might of been his goal
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 10:31 AM by SpartanDem
,but all he did was reaffirm GOP talking points. There are GOPers saying that if one the most liberal members of the party has an issue then there must be something wrong and the MSM is all too happy to follow this meme it was politically tone deaf. It would've better to let this issue die and not legitimize their whining; now Joe Lieberman is thinking about holding hearing.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. No, the Feingold hearing knocked down the GOP talking points. Please
read the articles.

The RW will continue with the distortions but now we can use the testimony of the experts to counter this.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. russ is just a bit spiteful
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's a stupid thing to call a hearing about
If Russ wants to re-examine the role of the Executive Office of the President then that's one thing. But the permanent elements of that office have far more power than any Czar that Obama decides to appoint.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. That came out in the testimony. Now use that testimony to
counteract the Beck types please.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
23. I don't think Feingold did it to hurt the President.
I thought it was needless at first but if he did it to prove that the issue of czars is ridiculous then I would thank him.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. I had originally
thought of it in the negitive sense also. But I also wondered what Feingold had up his sleeve when I first heard that he might have a hearing. I do think he (and reading the stories verifies this) wanted to have a hearing in a legitmate setting instead of the back and forth cable news.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I hope so. I have always liked and respected Feingold
and don't see him wanting to hurt Obama for no reason. In any case, he did prove the notion of there being a problem with czars is totally stupid.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Feingold
is a loyal Dem. That is the bottom line. He is also (as I am sure you know) is very independent which tends to irk folks sometimes.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
38. It's bullshit because if it were such an important issue...
He would have raised it during the Bush years. Even when the Democrats were in the minority, he could have spoken out about it. Hell, when they became the majority in 2007, he had a full two years to do something about it.

But oddly, he and Lieberman sat on their hands and did absolutely nothing. Not a word. No complains from them or FOX News or anyone for that matter.

I like Feingold, but he's wrong here. He's playing right into the Republican hit-machine.

"Even one of the most liberal senators thinks Pres. Obama is turning us into a dictatorship!"

I can hear it now. :eyes:
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. yeah, as a Senator, Obama could have raised the issue also
during the later Bush years. But it was NOT an issue then as it was now.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Uh, that doesn't even make sense.
It shouldn't be an issue at all.

You'd have a point if Senator Obama raised this issue back before he became president and then continued the practice.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. You asked
why Feingold did not raise it during the bush years and I counted with why did not Obama raise it during his tenure as Sen. during the Bush years. simple counter question.

Yet both are silly as it really did not become an issue until the RW--The Beck gang raised it.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. Russ is doing his job and responding to his constituents... and constitutional experts support Obama
Russ is doing his job. Gibbs sniping back is plain stupid. He should have mentioned that five constitutional experts found the use of czars as acceptable...

Beck, a college dropout, won't understand the conclusions of the constitutional experts... but it's over essentially.

Thank you Senator Feingold.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. Not this time..
I notice everytime we are trying to get something done it seems as though he runs out some type of bill or something or does something to help the repubs.

If he is so damn worried about Czars why in the hell didn't he say anything when Bush had Czars he had more than Obama and you didn't hear a word I haven't posted about him in a while I have just been watching.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. That's what I want to know and this Panel has already cleared
The Obama Admin.. Crossposted from LBN..

RamboLiberal (1000+ posts) Tue Oct-06-09 11:30 PM
Original message

"Panel finds no fault with Obama system of policy 'czars'"
Source: LA Times

In Senate testimony, constitutional experts say the president has the right to appoint independent advisors as long as the distinction between practical and legal authority is rigorously maintained.

Reporting from Washington - Five constitutional experts testified at a Senate hearing Tuesday that President Obama's extensive use of policy "czars" is legal -- as long as the officials do not overstep their authority.

In a city where power is carefully hoarded and monitored, Obama has drawn complaints from Congress about his use of these so-called czars, officials he has appointed to coordinate environmental, health and other policy areas among various departments.

Lawmakers in both parties have sent letters to the White House saying the officials' appointment circumvents Congress' authority to confirm top executive branch officials and subject them to oversight hearings.

But the panel of constitutional experts testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on the Constitution did not support the complaints.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4093035


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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #43
57. He helped the Democrats. Sorry you do not see that.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
46. He's too liberal for conservative Dems on DU. Look at the unrecommends!

They are clearly organized as a political faction and work in unison.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Exactly. (nt)
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. Yes, that has been evident for some time now.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. Nice conspiracy, but the guy is a maverick.
Which is different from being a "liberal".

Sorry, if some of us really aren't into this issue. There are other issues that concern me far more. I neither condemn nor praise Feingold on this one.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Better than being a Pinto! They tend to blow up!
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
52. This is ridiculous logic. You can tell me all you want the sky is green, but that don't make it so.
nt
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
53. Sorry, this is not a top issue for me. Feingold has always been a maverick.
I like Feingold but the worship of him here and elsewhere by liberals is a bit odd. It's like if you criticize him you have committed blasphemy. I don't think this is the best use of his time, but OTOH, he does not have a chairmanship of a big committee, so he needs to carve out his issues with the power he has.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Logic of those defending this is if Feingold did it must be right
yeah we'd better if had more like him in the Senate, but he's not infallible
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. If you read my posts you would not conclude that I used that silly logic
you claim.
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