Physician sees 'presenile dementia' in Bush's faltering speech

[Jon8503]

By Jerry Mazza
Online Journal Contributing Writer

September 18, 2004—In a letter to the editor of Atlantic Monthly, October 2004, Joseph M. Price, M.D. of Carsonville, Michigan, comments that James Fallows' July/August Atlantic article on John Kerry's debating skills ("When George Meets John"), "was interesting, but most remarkable was Fallows's documentation of President Bush's mostly overlooked changes over the past decade—specifically 'the striking decline in his sentence-by-sentence speaking skills.'" Dr. Price understands Fallows' initial "speculations that there must be some organic basis for the President's peculiar mode of speech, a learning disability, a reading problem, dyslexia or some other disorder."

Quoting Fallows, Dr. Carson also agrees with him that "The main problem with these theories is that through his forties Bush was perfectly articulate." Yet, Dr. Carson stated he felt "that something organic was wrong with President Bush, most probably dyslexia, but . . . was unaware of what Fallows pointed out so clearly: that Bush's problems have been developing slowly, and that just a decade ago he was an articulate debater." He was as Fallows said, "artful indeed in steering questions and challenges to his desired subjects . . . who did not pause before forcing out big words, as he so often does now, or invent mangled new ones." As Dr. Carson suggests, "Consider, in contrast, the present: 'the informal Q&A he has tried to avoid,' 'Bush's recent faltering performances,' 'his stalling, defensive pose when put on the spot,' 'speaking more slowly and less gracefully.'"

Dr. Price suggests that "not being a professional medical researcher and clinician, Fallows cannot be faulted for not putting two and two together. But he was 100 percent correct in suggesting that Bush's problem cannot be 'a learning disability, a reading problem, dyslexia,' because patients with those problems have always had them." The doctor. goes on to say, "Slowly developing cognitive deficits, as demonstrated so clearly by the President , can represent only one diagnosis, and that is 'presenile dementia'! Presenile dementia is best described to nonmedical persons as a fairly typical Alzheimer's situation that develops significantly earlier in life, well before what is usually considered old age."

Dr. Carson adds, "It runs about the same course as typical senile dementias, such as classical Alzheimer's—to incapacitation and, eventually, death, as with President Ronald Reagan, but at a relatively earlier age." Dr. Carson adds, " President Bush's 'mangled' words are a demonstration of what physicians call 'confabulation,' and are almost specific to diagnosis of a true dementia." His advice: "Bush should immediately be given the advantage of a considered professional diagnosis, and started on drugs that offer the possibility of retarding the slow but inexorable course of the disease."

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/091804Mazza/091804mazza.html

[molly]

1. I posted before that if you watch video of him

just 4 years ago and now, there is a staggering difference. His head did not bob when he spoke and he was in greater control of his speech.

on edit....

perhaps he is already on medication and his handlers are well aware of his situation.

[blueknight]

3. i dont agree,

i just think he's fucking stupid

[molly]

11. We all know that - but he's far more stupid now than then

[Rageneau]

28. You used Occam's Razor!

When you said:

**i just think he's fucking stupid.**

Too bad 'fucking stupid' is plenty good enough for some people.

[JuniperLea]

5. i've said that too

many times. just watch him!

i recently saw old footage of him when he first took office and the difference is very clear. doesn't take a doctor to see the change.

kerry is going to cream him in the debates!

[buycitgo]

14. he may, but the media will declare him the winner, no matter WHAT

I hope I'm wrong, but the 2000 debates were stunning

stunning in the fact that there was any question of how badly Bush did, merely because of all the LIES he told

lies that were NEVER challenged by the MSM

never repeated over and over and over like the BS about Gore/Love Canal/Internet/Love Story, etc

Gore got GORED to death, just as Kerry is being GORED to DEATH now

[Warpy]

8. He's been on a real short leash for about 6 weeks

and his speech and gait have both been improving.

The three dollar name for Bush's problem is Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, a neurological deterioration that comes from years of heavy drinking. In other words, if you don't fry your liver first, your brain fizzles. It is progressive if the person continues to drink. Some of the muscular incoordination can be reversed with high doses of thiamine, but only if the person has stopped drinking. The memory and cognitive problems, though, are permanent.

Alcoholism is a horrible disease, and people who think they can stop drinking without treatment are kidding themselves. Most will return to quiet binge drinking, no matter how pious they remain in public. The prognosis for anyone who quits for Jesus and avoids treatment is not good.

[yardwork]

30. Link to description of Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome

caused by heavy drinking. Symptoms include poor coordination, language disturbances, mood disturbances, loss of memory, confabulation (making things up).

http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/000771.cfm

Another possibility is frontal lobe dementia.

[yardwork]

31. Link to frontal lobe dementia

http://www.brain.northwestern.edu/mdad/frontal.html

[RebelYell]

36. I come from a family of alcoholics

My grandfather drank whiskey and beer heavily for many years. When he got really drunk, his head would shake back and forth from CNS depression caused by the alcohol. He was really drunk at a wedding once, and began uncontrolled vomiting. He had a heart attack and didn't know it until many years later when it showed up on a test.

His liver was always good, and his mind was as sharp as a tack until the day he died at 82 in a car accident (not his fault).

I don't understand how he drank every day of his life and suffered so few bad effects.

[buycitgo]

13. disagree! certainly on the head bobbing

I used to mention that CONSTANTLY during the campaign

others used to make fun of that move all the time

I think he did it MORE back then, actually, and has been taught, monkey-like, to control it, as well as his ridiculous squinting

I saw a clip of his nomination acceptance speech the other day, and it was pathetic.....just amazingly, creepily horrible

his eyes were almost shut, and he moved his head back and forth, mechanically, robotically

you'd be amazed at how truly grotesque he appears......the dems ought to use THAT speech to show what an automaton he is

[SheilaT]

2. How interesting.

Does this kind of deterioration occur in alcoholics? Bush has claimed to have stopped drinking entirely about 15 years ago, although there's a reasonable amount of evidence (the Pretzel Incident, a press conference with Tony Blair) of his having been drunk on occasion since then.

[The Great Escape]

4. I Think It's The Phony Southern Drawl He Seemed To Develop...

he has to actually think about what he is trying to say. Sometimes it can be tough to stay in charachter 24/7/365.

[vduhr]

41. Southern drawl

You know, I noticed that, because I remember saying to someone a long time ago that he didn't seem to have a Texas accent, but then not all Texans do - then suddenly I hear one from him...hmmmmmmmm!

[BlueNomad]

6. dumber and dumber...

BORN stupid + alcohol + cocaine + big bucks for more alcohol & cocaine + aging = dementia

[peekaloo]

7. Those clips that Letterman runs on occasion

are simultaneously hilarious and frightening.

A big ole elephant in the room that his true believers dismiss as just "being George".

[theHandpuppet]

9. Somewhere in there is an interesting study...

... worthy of a dissertation, ie, is party affiliation an indicator of predisposition to possible senile dementias later in life? Seems to go along with a certain rigidity of thinking, as it were. Look at some Republican heroes -- Reagan, Heston, Bush... and methinks turncoat Zell Miller has a problem, too.

Take a lesson from Robert Byrd -- being a Democrat is good for a sound and healthy mind for a lifetime!

[TNDemo]

10. My mother got Alzheimer's in her 50s

and ultimately died with it just after her 70th birthday. She had many of the same presenting symptoms with speech. Language is very much affected with Alzheimer's - not as much with other types of dementia. She did a lot of word search and eventually the things she would try to express would not make a lot of sense (confabulation). She was, of course, mute for several years before she died. She also got extremely defensive when questioned. We may have a "Being There" type of situation in the white house.

[choicevoice]

32. Sorry about your mother.

My grandmother at age62, mother at age 57 and brother at age 49 were diagnosed with Early Onset Alzheimers which I am assuming is the same as Presenile Dementia. Unfortunately or fortunately it seems our particular strain is a rapidly progressing form. My mother only lasted 3 years after diagnosis and my brother 5. The first clue that there was something wrong was the speech pattern. They could not think of the right word, broken speech pattern, forgetting in the middle of a sentence. I don't wish this on anyone, even Bush but it does bear watching.

[TNDemo]

35. Oh, you poor thing.

My mother was adopted and in her biological family every single one of the siblings of her mother's generation had it. Her mother got it the youngest (died at 59 fortunately of cancer). Have you read Decoding Darkness: The Search for the Genetic Cause of Alzheimer's?" The early onset variety has a genetic cause, unlike the later onset. I have debated getting tested since I am in my late 40s but would only do it anonymously. There is another DU'er I have corresponded with and her mother and mine died the same week last year but her mother was only 62. We both had pathology done. My mother's was Alzheimer's and Lewy Body Disease. Hers was something completely different but I can't remember at the moment what it was.

There is no way to explain to anyone what it is like with a relative with this stuff. Even though I know the disease is talking it is so hard to hear these awful things coming out of their mouth and you wonder if that was the way they really felt. I could always tell with other families who was the closest to the patient since that is the one they treated so badly. And the endless nights and days. It is like a great big annoying toddler. My sympathies to you and I hope it passes you by.

[Inland]

12. Remember when some saw signs of senility in Reagan too

and they were right on the button, weren't they?

[cliss]

15. OK: if all this is true

(which I believe it is), then why the Hell do they want to recycle the Guy for another 4 years? I'm assuming here that more people than just BeetleBrain's doctor knows about this.

I mean: it's common knowledge. I myself have had many laughs at his expense. Just go to the Search bar. Type in: "Bush stupid statements", or "Bush doesn't make any sense" or "Bush idiot quotes" or something to that effect.

You will get dozens, literally HUNDREDS of links. You can read quote after quote which make your head spin (I read several links, and I was absolutely amazed at the stupidity).

I was even tempted to work out some kind of word-linkage aberration that he's got (but I thought better of it).

The poor man. I actually felt sorry for him after reading about 100 quotes. But NO WAY should this man be leading this country for another 4 years. He needs to be in a quiet, restful environment for the rest of his days (not too many, I hope).

[molly]

16. He is not leading this country - he is merely a puppet

[SheilaT]

17. A while back

someone suggested saying to a Republican friend, "Did you hear about the stupid thing Bush said the other day?" And typically the other person will say something on the order of, "Which stupid thing?"

[sangh0]

26. Those "stupid things" make stupid people think

that Bush* is "a regular guy, like one of them"

[foo_bar]

18. presenile, or prehensile tail?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

21. That's why Bush walks funny

He hides his tail inside his butt.

[Tsiyu]

19. I believe strongly in karmic retribution

and in the devious power cocaine and alcohol have on the mind. Karmically, if you refuse to open your mind, nature will "close" it for you.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Then what about my mother?

Dementia or Alzheimer's was one of the problems she had before she died. She was a Democrat all her life. Do you have a sufficiently smug explanation for her condition?

Also, in my generation, I've known quite a few who've indulged in certain excesses. Some died--most got smart & quit. Some have had premature physical problems for their foolishness--but not matching W's symptoms.

When he was governor, I never thought him "intelligent"--yet he was able to make sense when speaking in public. He's definitely gotten worse in the last few years. At least Reagan had his actor's training to fall back on.

[Tsiyu]

24. I believe environment plays a large role

in causing Alzheimers. I worked with elderly in the late stages of this disease ( RT) and I am sorry for your loss. It is a tragic disease and the end is devastating to watch.

I did not say that ALL people who developed these had closed minds. Though I understand your sensitivity, I have witnessed certain "closed-minded" people lose their mental faculties at a much faster rate than adults of the same age without the narrow-mindedness.

It is a sin that there is not enough research to determine what caused you mother's problems, but I don't think I was talking about her if she was open-minded.

[JuniperLea]

27. i said that about reagan

karma is ironic at times.

[Annette]

20. That would sure explain why they are trying to back out of a debate.

n/t

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

23. This will only garner sympathy for him

I will stick to my theory that he is completely incompetent and in way over his little head.

[shrumbody]

25. On The Other Hand,

if it's true and he wins, God help us!

[troubleinwinter]

29. Maybe stem cell research could find answers and perhaps help

[Blaze Diem]

33. Is george ill or stupid?

He's definately showing sign of some progressive failure of powers. He could just be on some stress meds. Higher doses of some of those meds can create a slowing of verbal capacity, as well as absent mindedness. I've seen this same effect on a couple people I know who are taking increased doses of head-meds such as paxil/zoloft. Works for some but has serious effects on others. Sort of a disconnect with the world around them. Not like they used to be. They no longer react to stressors around them, because they simply endured too many for too long. Some anti-depressants cause a type of DEPERSONALIZATION in the emotional make-up of some users.
George is becoming more and more detached.

Could be a number of things.

[Blaze Diem]

34. Stem Cell Research is vital, but...

...would the Christian Right really sacrifice their beloved god-leader, George, to refuse the furthering of medical science?

I tend to think more like post # 3. George is stupid.
Maybe group prayer will raise George's I.Q.

Hello all. I've been away from DU for awhile. Good to be back.
I'm getting my copy of Kitty Kelly's "the Family.." from my local library tomorrow. Third on their waiting list, I signed up early. There are 32 people on the current list. Some will probably just buy a copy rather than wait months to read it.

A bumper sticker I saw last week read: "A Rash On My Hiney". A design like other "Bush/Cheney" bumper stickers I've seen. I've seen more anti-Bush/Cheney and more pro-Kerry/Edwards stickers displayed in this very RED state, this election more than any before. Interesting observation. The people that never get polled, I'm sure.

[cheshire]

37. That and the fact he is a sociopath and sadistic expain the freudian slips

[Lex]

38. His "handlers" know something is wrong with him. That much is clear.

Look how carefully they control his campaign appearances and how carefully they control his speeches before hand-picked audiences.

And he's given what? 10 or 11 press conferences, total, during his presidency. Usually with a hand-picked set of press people and painfully clearly scripted.

Some things are evidently beyond their control--the 'pretzel' incident, the numerous "oh he fell off his bike" incidences. These things result in bruises and scrapes to visible parts of his body (falls on his face--a lot).

He had to give up jogging due to a 'knee problem.' That seemed a little weird and out of the blue.

As he has deteriorated, the strict control over his appearances have become even stricter, imho.

[carpetbagger]

39. Joseph M. Price is a crackpot.

I posted this on the last thread about this, but here goes.

The dude is whacked. Google him. He claims to know the cure for baldness and he claims that drinking water gives you heart disease.

Bush is an actor, and his part is merely getting increasingly difficult to ad-lib. And unlike 1994, he now has to account for what his ideas actually do, not just whether they sound nice to Texans.

[troubleinwinter]

40. Googled him & came up with NOTHING?

Article does not give his credentials, says he wrote a letter to the editor. ??What gives?