No one has any MORAL right to demand that progressives "Just Stop"

[Ken Burch]

President Obama has said, over and over and over again, that he wants people to speak out, to build pressure from below, to make their voices heard.

The president would never tell progressives to shut up and "leave it to the grownups" as some here seem to want.

This man is an organizer. He knows how politics work. He knows that left pressure from below HELPS HIM.

When you tell us to be silent, you do the work of the GOP, the DLC, and corporate power.

Years ago, in the context of the AIDS crisis of the 80's, the phrase "Silence Is Death" was used.

It applies to the healthcare fight of today.

Asking us to be silent is asking us to do nothing while people die.

It's asking us to dishonor Ted Kennedy's memory.

Silence is death. Silence is failure. Silence is defeat.

We will not say nothing while the forces of death kill hope in the back rooms.

[damonm]

1. Actually, they do.

just as progressives have the right to ignore it.

[scheming daemons]

2. They have every right to say to you whatever the fuck they want

Ignore it if you don't like it.

[Ken Burch]

9. I changed it to "moral right"

And there's a real question as to whether telling other people to shut up is actually an expression of free speech.

[grantcart]

3. The poster was referring, I believe, to trivial complaints - complaining about

EVERYTHING - not discussing differences in important policies.

[scheming daemons]

4. Ken didn't read the original post.... just his headline

...

[Ken Burch]

7. I read the original post...it was a spiteful, reactionary "shut up and know your place" screed

It was telling people they had no right to fight for their views. There was nothing positive in the OP.

[dionysus]

30. i agree with your overall sentiment, but this is just people arguing on a message board.

throwing a fit on a message board isn't "pressuring the president to do the right thing". it's just complaining on a message board.

you can feel self righteous about it, but that's all it is.

and it's natural that people who aren't as upset as you will call it whining.

[Ken Burch]

8. It was telling people to shut up and leave it to "the grownups"

And, since President Obama has said he doesn't WANT people to be silenced, it was totally inappropriate.

No good comes from us just quietly waiting for whatever comes out of Rahm's smoke-filled room.

[grantcart]

11. So your position is that progressives should in fact complain about "EVERYTHING".

Atleast you are consistent.

[Ken Burch]

12. Not about everything...but about genuine signs of betrayal, yes

There's no reason we SHOULD just sit back and "trust the president" on this.

(on edit)On re-reading the OP I discovered it wasn't saying "don't complain about anything". It was saying don't speak out on ANYTHING.

[Chef Eric]

28. CREW's legal complaints against the White House were spot-on.

And if it weren't for those complaints, Obama might never have agreed to release the White House's visitor records.

[Laelth]

5. Hear, hear! Well said. k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[jefferson_dem]

6. Please...

don't be silent.

Nothing better than decent is achieved without a hard struggle. So let's fight the good fight.

And let's get the best damn reform bill we can get.

Onward!

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. Oy gewalt

[Spazito]

13. I absolutely love OPs that respond to other OPs they see as saying...

'shut up' by, in essence saying 'no, you shut up'. The irony, obviously not seen by the OP poster, is delicious and hilarious. Add to that the assumption of being the sole arbiter of what is 'moral' and one can only:

:rofl:

[dionysus]

31. oh just sit down and shut up

:evilgrin:

[AspenRose]

34. No, YOU shut up!

:rofl:

[jannyk]

14. Another rec here!!!

[Ken Burch]

15. Thanks. However, the right-wing "unrec" brigade is apparently out in force

n/t.

[LaydeeBug]

16. I rec'd it too. Good for you. nt

[ShortnFiery]

17. No more will I fold ... it's time for progressives and liberals to stand up to these blue dog

bullies. Shame on them!

[kestrel91316]

18. My, you're getting big on dictating what people can say and what they can't.

And this, from someone who supports the people who call Obama a "failure" already.

[Ken Burch]

19. The only thing I'm denouncing is people trying to silence others

Which was all the "Just Stop" thread was about. The person who started that thread doesn't give a damn if anything really changes at all.

[treestar]

20. We have a right to express frustration with negativity

and unrealistic expectations (I wanted Kucinich for President, but I understand he can't win in today's America) when we are trying to help with positive change.

[Ken Burch]

22. It's not "negativity" for progressives to expect that, now that the campaign is over

there will no more tacking to the right on anything, and there will be a stand AGAINST corporate power.

[phleshdef]

21. We shouldn't stop speaking out, but we really need to focus our "speaking out" at the right people.

[Ken Burch]

23. Fair enough. And I think most folks here try to do that.

But focus is important.

[gravity]

24. Speak out to the blue dog democrats and independents

Wasting all this energy on Obama is futile. It has nothing to do with morals, but with politics

[avaistheone1]

25. k&r

[Ken Burch]

26. Thanks

n/t.

[CakeGrrl]

27. You know, you're not required to heed someone on an internet message board

You can always not acknowledge it, unless the existence of their strong opposing opinion chaps your hide that much.

[dionysus]

32. you can tell the posters who feel it was directed towards them because it strikes such a nerve...

[cali]

36. that's ssuch a hoary and fallacious chestnut.

and it's used to try and deflect and demean differing opinion. What's funny is I'm quite critical of Obama on the healthcare reform issue. I still think Ken's OP is cheap hysterics.

[LittleClarkie]

29. Ultimately, it's all just a statement of opinion

They can say what they want.

You can say what you want.

Demands aside, don't none of you have to stop.

Why do people sometimes talk as if mere words had such power. They don't.

[NoPasaran]

33. There will be no solidarity until we acknowledge fudge!

[Ken Burch]

38. Er...can you translate that into a phrase that makes sense on THIS planet?

n/t.

[NoPasaran]

41. I've got yer nose!

[cali]

35. I have a strong aversion to histrionics. just yuck.

[Ken Burch]

40. No histrionics were involved.

It's simply unacceptable for anyone who claims to be on the progressive side of the spectrum to tell people on that side to, in effect, just shut up and know their place. If they want to debate something on the merits of an issue, then fine, have the debate. Demanding silence isn't having a debate and it isn't expressing an actual opinion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Who? Real progressives.

As opposed to fake ass progressives.

[Ken Burch]

39. The people telling us to "just stop" aren't "Real progressives"

Real progressives don't try to silence people on the progressive side of the issue.

[billh58]

45. I have asked

several self-described "Real Progressives," to define that term for me, and have never received a satisfactory answer. I am not attempting to start a fight, as I honestly do not know the philosophy, or political leanings of "Real Progressives."

It seems to me that recent origins of the use of the term, was as a euphemism for the much maligned term "Liberal." When the Grover Norquist/Newt Gingrich neoconservative camp of the Far-Right was successful at framing the "L-word" as a dirty, un-american label, many formerly proud Liberal American Democrats shied away from identifying themselves as Liberals, and adopted the term "Progressive" as a defense. On the other hand, many of us continued to proudly wear the "Liberal" label. Now, I am seeing the label "Real Progressive," and nasty in-house arguments as to which group, or political activist, is more "Progressive" than all of the others.

The Democratic Party has always been disorganized, as disorganization stems from our very roots, and is a by-product of Liberalism. At times, we are too "understanding," and too willing to entertain alternative views for our own political good. It appears to me however, that aside from the Far-Right faux New Democrats of Al From's Third Way DLC, we also have a rapidly growing Far-Left contingency who see themselves as New Ultra Liberals, and tend to call themselves "Real Progressives." The inference, I imagine, is to show that "Real Progressives" are somehow superior to we Liberal Democrats of the FDR/JFK school of New Deal Democratic social and economic goals and ideals.

My concern is that extremes, of ANY stripe, tend to demand all-or-nothing results from their government at any cost. It appears that extremists lose sight of our Constitutional brand of Federalism, and Representative Democracy, and focus intently on immediate results, and instant gratification. They lose sight of the fact that the wheels of democracy AND representative government move slowly, and always have. It took my generation, and the one which followed, over 60-years to bring this nation to a point where an African-American could even dream about being elected to the highest office in our nation. We are still not there with our LGBT brothers and sisters, but we are making progress.

We are a nation of a little over 300 million free people, and we will never agree on everything -- except the desire to remain free, and in charge of our own destinies.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[old mark]

43. Rec. Thanks. nt

[earth mom]

44. Just Stop = Shut Up = Unrec. Those same people have been telling us REAL LEFTIES to SHUT THE HELL UP

here on DU for months now. :grr: