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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:57 PM
Original message
Calling Obama a "Hitler","racist","not American" are code to the fringe wingnuts to take him out...
Any talk show host on either end of the spectrum can and should be able to exercise his right to free speech, BUT this is inciting violence in my view and I believe it meets the legal standard for sedition. The dumbo teabaggers and birthers can rant their ignorant,sore loser nonsense all they want, but it's the right winger media wolves on the public airwaves like Limpballs, Beck, O'Liely, Hannity,etc.. who are playing with fire. They are stirring emotions of the ignorant with lies- AND THEY KNOW IT. Even if their primary motivation is ratings, They also know some racist survivalist nutjob may take their words as gospel and try to kill Obama- believing he is a patriot saving the country from an evil leader. Of course if , God forbid it happens, they will deny that anything they said stirred the perpetrators to act. But we know better from recent tragic events.

This is not how a civil debate is supposed to take place in a democracy. Misinforming and then inspiring followers to simply disrupt public meetings on health care to shut down debate is not helpful for solving our health care crisis. Worse yet and over the line are these characterizations of Obama as a "Hitler", "Racist", "Not a true American". I demand to see some legal action taken against them- civil suits and criminal complaints for libel, inciting violence and sedition. They need to be taken to task for their irresponsible and dangerous words. This is the equivalent of yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater. There are limits and we need some action to get these devious, irresponsible and self-promoting windbags to STFU!!!

Any Lawyers out there willing to take this on? PLEASE for the sake of our democracy and the safety of our president.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. People are calling for a civil war
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TTUBatfan2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. We (the left) called Bush "Hitler," "fascist dictator," etc...
Consequently, there isn't really a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about what the dumbfuck right wingers are calling Obama.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. True - one can't argue it is only hateful when the right wing does it
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 02:03 PM by stray cat
and give the left a pass. Sometimes the right and left come full circle and meet. On DU, we call people racists, facists etcs all the time and one even sees dancing on the graves of those some disagree with.
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ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
30. Good point.
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You forgot "racist". nt
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. yeah - after all, because we ACCURATELY desribe the REPUKE RACISTS for what they are,
it's EXACTLY the same thing when the REPUKES do it to President Obama...
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Agreed -- even though we may have had more justification, claiming that equating the pres w/Hitler
is a call to kill him only makes it seem like that's what the left was doing a short while ago.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. that occurred to me, but i believe there are important differences...
I remember the Left leaning talk show hosts on Air America and other shows deliberately discouraging people from characterizing Bush as Hitler. There was also a fact based approach to their commentary. There were many of us who did believe Bush was following Hitler's playbook and had the right to say so publically. There was actual historical comparisons based in fact that could support that claim. That doesn't mean we were going to get our kitchen knives and try to kill him. There was never any talk of violence, only of legal action against Bush. With the right wing shows now, they have no evidence to support their claims, and are constantly chanting verifiable lies on airwaves fully aware that many of their listeners are well armed fanatics capable and willing to kill a "racist" "hitler" "un-american" black president. I'm not a lawyer, but i think a case could be made that there is a difference.
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TTUBatfan2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Mike Malloy never discouraged people from calling him Hitler...
in fact he was one of the loudest screamers of "Bush is a Hitler-esque fascist" and so forth.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. Malloy was often the only voice telling the truth for a while, but i found his show devolved into
endless angry rants about the "Bush Crime Family", comparing him to Hitler, and 911 conspiracy theories and he became too full of himself in my opinion.
It was reported he was fired from Air America for financial reasons, but i think it was his tone and these angry hateful rants that made the editors uneasy.

I ask you, has a right wing talk show host ever been fired for their angry hateful rants?
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TTUBatfan2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. Not that I'm aware of...
but then again I don't keep track of the hirings/firings of right wing radio. :P

But the owners of the right wing media definitely encourage their employees to be as controversial as they want.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The Left didn't control Talk Radio nor did it call for the assassination of Bush
or agitate for Confederate-style insurrection.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yeah, I don't remember people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow
or Al Franken ever seriously equating Bush to Hitler.

That's the difference. Sure, we did it here--and I won't deny that. But there's a difference between some gomer on a message board calling Bush a Nazi or comparing him to Hitler and a radio/TV host with thousands of listeners doing the same thing.

They're WAAAAAAAAY beyond us.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. agreed, that is the essential difference n/t
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. But this is different. Bush was called those things by people who were against violence and who
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 02:24 PM by jenmito
had no doubt he's "one of us" as in "American" or more accurately, "white." Nobody was literally SCARED that he was a "usurper" and a fraud. He's white and that alone had HIS number of death threats something like 300% fewer than Obama's.
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abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. with all due respect to you and the poster below, ( on edit, now above) if the shoe fits....
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 02:49 PM by abq e streeter
The fact is that it's glaringly obvious that there is a large number of rather openly racist elements in the republican party, as well as a fascist mind-set among much of their leadership. And there has not been an attempt on the left to whip up irrational fear and hate that remotely compares to that which the right wing is currently attempting to do. Should we also not call the Ku Klux Klan racists , or Mussolini a fascist just to try to stay 'fair and balanced" ? And for the record, yes, our side is guilty of hyperbole sometimes, and I personally found comparisons of Bush to Hitler to be highly offensive ( as opposed to saying he and his criminal junta had a fascist mentality and/or were attempting to impose fascism). But did any Olbermann listeners or Chomsky readers murder doctors, or worshipers in church? The right wing DOES have a large racist and fascist, and very potentially violent ( and not always just potentially either) element, and we , while being far from perfect, do not. Simple fact.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. We are the LW "fringe" on a message board
they are the RW mainstream. There's a big difference.

What's more, we were correct, they're just copying our ideas. They have no originality.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. In case you didn't know...
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 04:03 PM by AntiFascist
Bush, like Hitler, had the support of anti-democratic industrialists in winning election. Obama, on the other hand, has had broad support from huge segments of the populace from the very beginning.

What we are seeing with Obama is not unlike the way JFK was being compared to Nazi-appeaser Neville Chamberlain, right before his assassination.

On edit: right-wingers were comparing Communist leaders with Hitler, the usual ploy of confusing Left and Right.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Did Obama's grandfather actually FUND Hitler?
I don't seem to remember that. The Bush Crime Family has actual ties to Hitler. Obama doesn't.
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pangaia Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. But Bush was a fascist,
although I doubt he knows what the word means, and he did say it would be much easier if he were a dictator.. :> ;))
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. But it was a complete ACCURATE description of bush* & the REPUKES!!!
while the terms do not in any way shape or form correctly even remotely apply to President Obama.

STOP BEING SO DISINGENUOUS and ABSURD!!!
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. How many organized and armed "left" militia groups are there?
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. He's not Kennedy, and this isn't the 60's
I have full confidence in the Secret Service protecting the President.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Obama is FDR and this is the 30s.
And the corporatists tried to pull a coup on FDR in 1933.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Talk radio is spewing hatred by the minute and is using ignorance and fear
Talk radio is spewing hatred by the minute and is using ignorance and fear to appeal to the darkest impulses in America's collective psychic. Their calls for violence mirror the hate mongering that preceded the assassination of Israel Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin.

The same thing is happening in Venezuela, except that the Bolivarian Revolution is trying to constraint the broadcast of rightwing hate speech without infringing on freedom of speech or of the press. We could use a Bolivarian Revolution in the USA!

Venezuelan National Assembly Discusses Combating Media Terrorism

August 6th 2009, by Tamara Pearson Venezuelanalysis.com


Mrida, August 5th 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) - In response to private international and national media claims that Venezuela is discussing a media law which denies freedom of expression and punishes journalists, National Assembly members said that no such law proposal exists, only a discussion around how to combat the "media dictatorship" and "media terrorism."

The president of the media commission in the National Assembly, Manuel Villalba, said on Tuesday that a proposal for a law with 17 articles, as claimed by some media, doesn't exist and that rather, the Attorney General, Luisa Diaz, had presented ideas to the National Assembly, which are being debated, but that there is no consensus around her proposals.

"It's not official," Villalba said, explaining that no law had been formally presented or proposed. "All this just confirms that there are media owners who are systematically disseminating false opinions," he said.

Legislator Rosario Pacheco said that so far the draft that they have of the law considers media crime the publication of false, manipulative or distorted information that causes "harm to the interests of the state" or that threatens "public morale or mental health." The assembly has discussed a maximum penalty of four years prison.

Journalist Asalia Venegis told Venezuelan Television (VTV), "This law project... incorporates everything that is unequivocally expressed in the Law of Journalist Practice and the Code of Ethics, which establish a series of perspectives over what the treatment of the news and the role of the journalist should be."

Diaz also suggested the law should focus on protection for journalists who are coerced into putting their name to, or writing articles that they don't believe. Therefore, she said, rather than going against freedom of expression, the law should "promote safe and true freedom of expression that reaches everyone and doesn't attack the peace of the citizens."

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4694
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. There is no question about it, there are groups out there calling for sedition
The worst part is that the media is giving them a forum

and yes you are right, they are implicitly telling them to take him out

In a not so subtle way every time they refer to the Democratic party as the "democrat" party, they are sending the message that Democrats are not Democratic. "They are going to take away your freedom, put you in internment camps, and you have ever right to prevent that"

This has nothing to do with first amendment rights, this is calling for an insurrection, incitement to riot, etc.

and God Forbid should something happen, the MSM will stand their with innocent looks and crocodile tears, and say why did this happen

It should have been very clear what was happening during the Palin/McCain campaign rallies, when people in the crowd were calling for "death to Obama"

Remember the video when McCain was trying to stop a woman from spewing her hate?

An interesting contrast was that Palin did everything to encourage it






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Vicar In A Tutu Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Agreed.
"and God Forbid should something happen, the MSM will stand their with innocent looks and crocodile tears, and say why did this happen"

As you say, the big difference is that they're being given a mainstream voice this time - Like it or not, Fox still, against all the odds, has credibility as a 'real' news network amongst a significant portion of the ignorant and it leads people on a merry dance to the even more extreme radio voices. You also have mainstream Republican politicians adding credibility to the argument that Obama is a dangerous dictator (despite being elected with the sort of majority Bush could have only dreamed). If top Democrats had DARED to go quite that far during the Bush era, they'd have been shamed and would probably never again see elected office.

A big fear of mine is what would happen if the terrible did occur. It would be seen by black people, quite justifiably, as the white institution conspiring to bring down an incredible, transcendental figure due to his racial make-up. My feeling is that it would be war and a lot of innocent people would die while the scum who agitated for this from behind their microphones and at the town halls cower beneath their beds, mission nonetheless accomplished.

Now, on a happier note I'd like to say that I don't think anything will happen to Obama - I think security around the President is such that a catastrophe of that magnitude is nigh on impossible.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. They don't want to fuck with us.
If President Obama or his family is harmed in any way, they better hope they have a sealed bunker they can hide their cowardly, bigoted, inbred asses in.
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potone Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. I agree that this is dangerous.
I am getting frightened for Obama. We all know-or at least we all should-that there are many ignorant, hate-filled and frightened racists with guns out there who can't accept the fact that we have a black President, and one who actually wants to benefit the country as a whole, rather than just the upper class. There was a lot of hateful and threatening talk about the Clintons from the right-wing media when they were in the White House, but I think that this is even more dangerous. I admit that I have been naive; I thought that once he was in office and showed that he wasn't going to fulfill their paranoid fears--no war against white people, no confiscation of guns--they'd calm down. I should have known better; they never gave up on trying to destroy Clinton.

I doubt that legal action can be taken except against those directly advocating violence against the President, but at the least we need to protest these characterizations of him and members of Congress who are trying to get health care reform passed, and we need to point out that Obama is fulfilling a campaign pledge and has an electoral mandate to do so.
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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. We did it to Bush
It means nothing...name-calling is part of the game. No big deal.

Organizing mobs to attack congressmen concerns me more.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. This country is a tinderbox waiting for a match.
If someone even attempts to kill Obama there will be rioting and murder in the streets. :scared:
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CoffinEd Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Mostly Hot Air
I think the majority of right wingers are nothing but talk. Yeah, they like to run around talking about "lock and load" and make threatening "noise", but look at how quickly two of them folded after allegedly getting 'shoved' by some union guys.

You got the guy in Florida who is threatening legal action after allegedly being shoved into a wall and getting his widdle Banlon ripped. And then you have the "black conservative" (as described by his fellow right-wingers) who is all lamed-up in a wheel chair and on pain killers after allegedly being shoved to the ground.

Given this country's painful experience with assassinations, the ignorant asshats know that if anything were to happen to Obama or any member of his family, there would be hell to pay, not to mention that a good number of 'em would have to move out of their parents basement.

They may be dumb, but they ain't stupid.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. sure some are hot air balloons, but just look at this post by a DU'er from talking with his mom
about Obama:

"
eagertolearn (723 posts) Sat Aug-08-09 08:34 PM

Response to Reply #3
5. My mom thinks the world is coming to an end too because of Obama.
When she said to me on the phone that she hope someone takes care of him I knew I couldn't talk to her anymore about this stuff. So when ever she starts talking about her doomsday theories I just smile to myself and say "wow that sounds pretty scary the way you see the world. I'm glad I have a much more positive outlook and that I'm actually doing something to help change the problems". My mom, I've found out, is also very racist. She sits at home all day watching Fox news and gets stuff from the internet from the far right. She'll have to go to one of those deprograming camps to see the light and that is not going to happen. I never knew she was like this growing up with her though I didn't even know what politics was in high school!"


Now, this is someone's MOM who is surprising his some by saying she HOPES someone "TAKES CARE OF HIM". If she's been brainwashed by the RW media to feel this way, playing to her prejudice and fear, imagine what a call to arms it is for the unemployed angry white man with an assault rifle and nothing to lose. I think the right wing media knows exactly what they are doing and who their audience is. They need to be held responsible when they foment anger, encourage insurrection and violence, and spread lies.


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CoffinEd Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. I understand your point
But I did say most, not all. As for moms, I think she needs an intervention to take that damned remote from her Faux-news watching hands.


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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. Dehumanizing Obama -
Thank you for this. It has occurred to me that the intensity of criticism dehumanizes Obama - he's this and that -
so eventually, he's just an object in the way of some fantasy that these people have. We're due to find out more about the troops of this movement.

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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
29. Besides legal action, another approach is to boycott advertisers of the offending shows
Joanne98's well documented attempts at boycotting appear to be having an effect:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
31. It's also code for saying he's an "N word."
But since they know everybody would be up in arms if they said that, they beat around the bush now. The birther movement is a racist movement.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
33. YUP ... I've been saying that for weeks ... look at what they call him ...
Here is my list of the words they use to dehumanize him.

Un-American
Un-patriotic
America Hater
Terrorist
Socialist
Communist
Marxist
Racist
Kenyan
Muslim
Baby Killer
Evil
Anti-Christ

Oh ... and now "Grandma killer".

At the same time that they use these words ... they scream that the right wing needs to start hoarding guns and ammo.

They call for succession and/or armed revolution.

Sooner or later some far right wing whack job will decide to take violent action to "start the revolution".

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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
35. DUD! Calling Obama Mr. President is code to any idiot
thinking about something that stupid!
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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
39. They are some messed up people but c'mon
did you call for Randi to be arrested when she called shrub a nazi?
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