RNC going off the deep end -- plan to formally accuse Bush of embracing "socialism"

[DCBob]

Washington Times
EXCLUSIVE: RNC draft rips Bush's bailouts
Ralph Z. Hallow
Tuesday, December 30, 2008

Republican Party officials say they will try next month to pass a resolution accusing President Bush and congressional Republican leaders of embracing "socialism," underscoring deep dissension within the party at the end of Mr. Bush's administration.

more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/30/rnc-pushes-unprecedented-criticism-of-bailouts/
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The Republicans have really lost their way. This will only make sense to the hard core conservatives. The rest of the country will think they are nuts.

[LisaM]

1. I have to wonder

why people consider the word socialism an insult. I consider myself a socialist.

[Auggie]

3. Same here. They must have done research and discovered it scared

the crap out of people, maybe even equating it with communism.

[DCBob]

4. I think most of us on this board have some socialistic leaning ideas.

To conservatives however, it is about the worst thing you could call a politician, short of communist.

[Locrian]

7. fundamentalist terrorists

>>> why people consider the word socialism an insult. I consider myself a socialist.

The rich elite have been able to get EVERYONE to believe that the "market" is god. They consider the "market" a natural force (like gravity) that CANNOT be interfered with. They suck us in with stocks, mutual funds as "suckers" to fuel the most massive shift of wealth in history.

If 10% of the people own 80% of the stock - it doesnt take a genius to figure that event if "we" (middle class) own some of that - the net effect will be a continuous shift of ownership to the elite.

The trick is that by suckering us all in to the market they can then create the illusion that in "our" best interests of the market that "regulation / rules" are bad. It doesnt matter what the gov system is: communist, socialist, fascist, democratic - they are all equal because the try to "regulate the market". Hence they are bad, evil, enemy of the "people" - and we buy it again and again as wages, jobs, etc evaporate.

The RW heads are starting to spin right now - though - because of the "socialist" style bail out. Even though this was a con-job / heist, they are really having trouble with what is happening to their god the "market". Look for them to do what all religions do when confused by their god - become fundamentalist terrorists. Its gonna get real ugly.

[Oak2004]

29. Maybe "liberal" stopped being scary to people?

Or maybe they want to preemptively make "socialist" scary, given that socialism is an actual solution to our current ills.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. are you saying the bailout isn't socialism? They needed to embrace it because

capitalism failed.

I'm glad the Repos are finally telling the truth. Or do you find the bailout to be capitalistic?

I think we need to remind people that public parks are socialism. I'm all for it.

[DCBob]

6. It is a bailout, that's all.

It has nothing to do with anyone embracing a new set of economic theories.

[Locrian]

9. I think it is a big deal....

to fundamentalist "true market believers". It's the same as "evolution" to fundy religious types. It shakes their whole foundation that the market (god) can do no wrong.

[DCBob]

11. No doubt what has happened has got the free-market/capitalism lovers in a panic.

They are desperately trying to convince the country that capitalism only failed because of restrictions placed on it by the Democrats. They believe the only way forward to unleash capitalism. Fools.

[Locrian]

15. right exactly

Fundamentalist terrorist - go back to the "roots" ie COMPLETE unregulated markets.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. The need for the bailout proves capitalism is a failed theory. It's been proved repeatedly,

it doesn't work.

If it worked you would let the failed businesses die and the magic of the market would make everything OK.

When governments buy up big chunks of banks and brokerage houses they call that socialism.

Just like city parks.

[DCBob]

8. I agree capitalism has failed but I don't think this country or Bush are ready to dump it..

and embrace socialism entirely.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. I think we need to push hard and fast to get back to a mixed market. I haven't seen a

shoe shortage and I haven't seen a shoe company that's just to dang big to fail.

Anything that could be considered too big to fail is something that has to be socialized. Because when failure does occur the solution is always socialization.

i agree that the years of propaganda against socialism won't just evaporate by itself in the face of facts. People will cling to their myths. But now is the time to directly challenge those myths.

[Locrian]

16. me neither

And dont underestimate the meme that the "market" is to people equal to "choice" and "freedom" to do what they want with "their" money. And the market has been able to create a "populist" appeal that it **alone** is democratic.

[Bad Thoughts]

19. Bailouts are good ole fashioned nationalism

No socialism required. If they did, the industries would be bought or taken by the government in the name of the people.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Many are. We bought shares of some.

[Bad Thoughts]

31. The government took no voting stakes in the companies

It's influence over what it does with the banks, it has turned out, is negligible. Moreover, the government has not changed the practices of the companies in order to support social policies.

[unpossibles]

20. in my opinion it is closer to fascism

were it socialistic, it would be (in theory) to the benefit of the people. As the bailout benefits the corporations and ruling class at our literal expense, then it is that other form of government bundled with business: fascism.

Many of the new "libertarian" right try to paint socialism and fascism as the same thing - big government - when in fact they are the opposite in many ways despite both being potentially "big." Saying fascism and socialism is the same because of quantitative reasons is like saying a plate of dog poop is the same as a plate of food because they both are on plates.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. I agree that socialism and fascism are distinct. I'm a proponent of a mixed market.

Some would claim we have one but it's seriously out of whack. We used to be much closer to a true mixed market but the Reagan through bush years has seriously crippled the social side of the equation.

It could be argued that the financial bailouts were intended to prop up the banking system which of course was one the first things to go in the 30's and was of the hardest things to bring back. That made the going very slow in other areas.

The reasoning put forth was if the financial system collapsed the effects on most people would be dire, either directly, or certainly indirectly. And the US government received an equity position in some companies.

Now the intent may have been to loot. In which case, yes, it would be corporate interests exploiting the people through the use of the government.

Socialism doesn't have to be big since big doesn't mean any thing except in relation to something not as big or bigger. The ocean is big, especially because other bodies of water on earth are smaller. If we the people of our country collectively own the ocean around our country, is it any bigger or smaller than if the ocean around our country were owned privately?

[unpossibles]

25. socialism as "big"

I know and agree, which is why I used quotes - I was trying to convey that semi-literate rightwing nut jobs have told me that socialism and fascism are both big government, therefore the same.

Personally, I am all for a mixed market, have no problems with well-crafted socialism or well-regulated capitalism, and think supply side economics has failed as expected.

And frankly, the folks accusing Bush of being a socialist or being too liberal are doing what FOX news does - trying to distance themselves from the failure of their very ideals, philosophies, and policies. They backed him for 5 or 6 years, they can't just throw him out now.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. A fair number of people in our caucus backed him repeatedly on a lot of stuff.

they also would prefer to disassociate as well.

[unpossibles]

27. not the same thing at all

I disagree about Pelosi's impeachment stance, and I am not a fan of many Democrats' war & civil rights stances, but those are not the same as backing or supporting really. I am not making excuses, but I do think there are differences most of the time, often dealing with how information is presented (such as the Iraq War intel) and with "politics" - the wish to not lose their job. The Dems who aligned with Bush on some issues were technically doing their jobs even if I disagree with them - and I often disagree with many politicians - but they did not pull the crap that the Republicans (and Liebermann) pulled either.

Sure, it's cowardly sometimes, but it happens on every level of humanity too, so not too unexpected either. Personally, I think the problem is more in the flaws in the system, but that's another rant.

But the multiple-time Bush backers - the ones who accused us of being deranged for seeing what everyone now claims to see - can fuck right off, and that includes the RNC, FOX, and the radio "entertainer" crowd.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. One of the reason that Pelosi took impeachment off the table is that she

signed off on torture and extra judicial detention.

She's legally culpable too.

From the Patriot Act to FISA to Iraq, to subsidizing big pharma, to you name it, the Repos won because Dems went along in big enough numbers to get a majority or to stop filibusters. If we don't recognize this fact then we will never understand what happened and how we can fix it.

[unpossibles]

30. I do not disagree with many issues/politicians

especially on the torture/FISA BS. And I don't instantly ignore or forgive people just for having a "D" behind their name. But some things, such as the Iraq war vote, were rigged to screw us no matter which way someone voted, and were based on their own rigged intel.

I'm just saying that there's still a HUGE difference between Pelosi and the RNC/FOX/et al now claiming that Bush is a liberal/socialist.

[John Q. Citizen]

32. A large majority of Dems in the house voted against the war. So they didn't have problems with the

intel.

In fact a majority of Dems seems to vote pretty well on a number of issues. It's the same minority pool of Democrats who seem to take turns crossing the aisle who help a lot of the bad stuff pass and keep the good stuff from passing.

Haven't you noticed that?

[Patsy Stone]

5. They should also accuse him of Fascism while they're at it. (nt)

[pansypoo53219]

12. sorry republikkkans

georgee is YOUR puppet. you can't drop him now that he is toxic.

[peaches2003]

14. RNC will call for repeal of Medicare and Soc Sec??

Both Medicare and Social Security are socialistic. Transfer money from one group of taxpayers to another. Hopefully the RNC will be truthful and say that these popular programs will have to go. Didn't think so.

[Bad Thoughts]

17. Veiled attempt at calling Obama a socialist

It's lame. Sacrificing their currently unpopular president in order to undermine the policies Obama must pursue to fix the economy. But let's not forget: republicans are not free market liberals. They will use government to prop up business any chance they get. They will privatize government functions at the public's loss. See: Halliburton and Blackwater, two agencies that exist to service one and only one customer.

[AtomicKitten]

18. The GOP is flailing about so much now they need to wear helmets.

[Danger Mouse]

23. Circular firing squad at the ready...aim...

[leftofthedial]

24. "The rest of the country will think they are nuts."

Correction, most of the rest of the country won't think at all.

[polichick]

33. I guess GW isn't their fearless leader anymore.

[AntiFascist]

34. The Bush Administration should never have embraced socialism for the wealthy...

this resolution should have been passed long ago.

[ecstatic]

35. I'm lovin their meltdown. If only Blago would get out the f*ckin way

uggh