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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:27 AM
Original message
The American Family Outing
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 01:35 AM by JackBeck
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_White">Mel White, the President and Co-Founder of Soulfource, was previously the ghostwriter for Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham and Pat Roberstson, while living a life of shame in the closet. After coming out, he created this grassroots organization with a goal of opening up a dialogue between evangelicals and the LGBT community.



Friday, June 13 - Sunday, June 15, 2008 (Father's Day Weekend) Dr. Rick Warren and Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California

Dr. Rick Warren, author of The Purpose-Driven Life and founding pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, one of America's largest and best-known churches with a membership of over 16,000. Warren was named one of "America's Top 25 Leaders" by U.S. News and World Report in 2005. He was elected by TIME Magazine as one of "15 World Leaders Who Mattered Most" in 2004 and one of the "100 Most Influential People in the World" in 2005.

http://www.soulforce.org/article/1341">Read more on the visit to Rick Warren and Saddleback Church.

More Information:
http://www.soulforce.org/article/1333">Frequently Asked Questions about the American Family Outing

Frequently Asked Questions about the American Family Outing

1. What is the American Family Outing?


The AFO is a campaign between Mother's Day Weekend and Father's Day Weekend in which LGBT families and supportive straight families will seek peaceful and heart-to- heart dialogue with six of today's most influential evangelical leaders and their mega- churches about faith, family, and LGBT people. We seek first to understand, and then to be understood, as we engage families and staff within these congregations.

2. Who are the sponsors of the American Family Outing?

The AFO is a collaborative project between Soulforce, http://www.nbjcoalition.org/">The National Black Justice Coalition, http://www.colage.org/">COLAGE, and the http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home">Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches.

3. Why is it important for LGBT people and our families to dialogue with these mega-churches?

The six pastors we plan to visit during the AFO have been ranked by Christian organizations as among the 50 most influential Christian leaders in America. In addition to pastoring large churches whose memberships often exceed tens of thousands, each has an enormous influence on American culture through best-selling books, radio and television programs that reach millions of homes, and frequent speaking engagements in packed churches and large coliseums in cities across the country. While some are actively involved in American politics, all have significant influence on public opinion and therefore, the rights of LGBT people and their loved ones. In some of these churches, LGBT people are welcomed - but they are not affirmed - often meeting resistance from church leaders when they offer their spiritual gifts and seek to take a more active role within the life of the church. Soulforce and our partnering organizations care deeply about the emotional, mental, and spiritual welfare of those in the LGBT community who choose to attend these churches. We want them to know that God loves and affirms them exactly as they are and that each of us can live lives of service filled with dignity and grace, regardless of our sexual orientation or gender identity. Our vision is that one day; every church sanctuary in America will truly be a sanctuary for ALL people.

4. Does Soulforce consider these churches and leaders to be our enemy?

Absolutely not. These churches are filled with good and loving people who want, as we do, to make the world a better place. The leaders of these churches are victims of misinformation, as we all have been, about sexual orientation and gender identity. Our ultimate goal is reconciliation - not victory. We believe these churches have the potential to be a positive force in ending the physical and spiritual violence perpetuated by some religious voices against LGBT people and their families. Some of these churches have exercised inspirational leadership on social issues such as poverty and AIDS, and we believe they can exercise comparable, courageous leadership in ending spiritual and physical violence against LGBT people. We believe that each of these churches will grow and prosper by welcoming us; recent research shows that a majority of young Christians are alienated by some churches' hostility to gay and lesbian people. More and more people of faith now understand that there are all kinds of families in America, and what really matters is our love and commitment to one another.

----------

For those that are interested in getting involved in spreading a positive message about the LGBT community, I offer this up as another example of grassroots outreach that can work for those that want to make a change in their local community.




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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended..Good Post.. n/t
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Just looking for the place where those that disagree
Can come together and recognize some inkling of a common purpose.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why 6 Evangelical Pastors?
From the linked article:

...with six of today's most influential evangelical leaders

Why aren't they meeting with leaders of other denominations?

:shrug:
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Please read the next sentence:
"In addition to pastoring large churches whose memberships often exceed tens of thousands, each has an enormous influence on American culture through best-selling books, radio and television programs that reach millions of homes, and frequent speaking engagements in packed churches and large coliseums in cities across the country."

As to why this predominately Christian LGBT organization hasn't reached out to other denominations, maybe you should email them or search their website to find out the answer.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. If evangelicals had such enormous influence, McCain/Palin would have won.
Sorry, but my bullshit detector tells me there's something wrong about this.
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. What is your "bullshit detector" telling you?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. LOL I don't know
I'm neither gay nor a church person, so I don't claim to be an expert.

Guess I don't 'get' why an oppressed group would want to suck up to their oppressors. And yes, I know the organization claims that these fundie churches are simply brimming with good and wonderful Christian people. But if that's the case, why haven't these church members been front and center leading the fight for the civil rights of gays?

:shrug:
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Maybe you didn't read all of #4:
We believe that each of these churches will grow and prosper by welcoming us; recent research shows that a majority of young Christians are alienated by some churches' hostility to gay and lesbian people. More and more people of faith now understand that there are all kinds of families in America, and what really matters is our love and commitment to one another.


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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Ahh....these mega-churches are looking towards increa$ing member$hip!
And this "ghost-writer" guy came up with an idea...
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Since you're not a churchy and not gay, as you stated, did you even read any of the links provided?
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 03:39 AM by JackBeck
There's a lot of information there to consume, especially for those that are unfamiliar with some of the principals involved.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. First, when you meet with one group, you aren't obligated to meet with
all other groups at the same time. I put your statement in the category of why if the governor of Wisconsin meets with the governor of Minnesota why does he not meet with all other Great Lakes states governors too?

Secondly, the evangelical community poses a special problem for the gay rights movement. No other religious group is quite as committed to the defeat of gay rights as the evangelical movement.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's right JB, there'll be no progress without dialog. We can go back & forth about...
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 02:01 AM by bridgit
what rights even are, what "pandering" is, bigotry, what is soliloquy, what is obloquy, etc, etc, etc, round & round & round...but there'll be no change imo without it someone reaches out. Engaging the mega-churches becomes essential. If we have any common humanity, as many say or demand that we do; it is important we place it before them in a reasoned manner as a lesson in objectivity...

k&r'd :kick:
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Mel White has been building this movement for about 10 years.
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 03:19 AM by JackBeck
Not only could I not agree more with your post, I even learned a new word that I had to look up! Is it pronounced "oh-bluh-key"?

Regardless, I find the gnashing and wailing about Obama's community organizing experience reminiscent of Palin's Convention speech, which at the time, I found just as offensive then, when a Republican was doing it, as I do now, when I see Democrats doing the same on here.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Mega churches are mega frauds!
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 03:37 AM by IndianaGreen
We should ally ourselves with mainline denominations instead. There can be no common ground for as long as hatred and intolerance are part of the Sunday homilies.

We must mind the wise words of Emma Goldman who warned "that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination."

Religion, the dominion of the human mind; Property, the dominion of human needs; and Government, the dominion of human conduct, represent the stronghold of man's enslavement and all the horrors it entails. Religion! How it dominates man's mind, how it humiliates and degrades his soul. God is everything, man is nothing, says religion. But out of that nothing God has created a kingdom so despotic, so tyrannical, so cruel, so terribly exacting that naught but gloom and tears and blood have ruled the world since gods began.

Emma Goldman
Anarchism: What It Really Stands For (1910)

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/goldman/works/1910s/anarchism.htm
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Which mainline denominations do you suggest?
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 03:45 AM by JackBeck
Mel White has gathered quite a diverse coalition to build the bridges needed for his outreach efforts.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I'll start with the Episcopal Church. They are under attack by Warren's ally Peter Akinola.
They need all the support they can muster.
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Soulforce:
http://www.soulforce.org/article/44

Denver - General Conference of the Episcopal Church
SOULFORCE DIRECT ACTION
Denver, Colorado
July 4, 2000

http://www.soulforce.org/article/93
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Harvey Milk understood the importance of building coalitions.
You have to work with those that you may have disagreed with.

Soulforce has been a progressive voice for over 10 years. If this is the first time you've heard of them, how can you so readily discredit all the work they have done?
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. You are completely wrong. Bernard Madoff is a "mega fraud", and he's only one person; just one!!
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 11:36 AM by bridgit
You, or any combination of people like you, can sit in your puter chairs and cast each, all, and every aspersion that makes you feel better throughout the day but it remains a stone cold fact...

Mega churches are bigger business than strip malls do not dilute yourself in a world where retail space within the malls of a consumer society are closing for lack of bizz; pews are filling exponentially otherwise...

http://godlessliberalhomo.blogspot.com/2008/02/chruch-construction-billion-dollar.html">Church Construction a Billion Dollar Business ~ 1,210 mega-churches in the United States, nearly twice the number that existed just five years ago

Obama addresses California megachurch on Friday

http://conferencias.iscte.pt/viewpaper.php?id=91&print=1&cf=3">The megachurch as a social space: a case study of exurban enclave development

The Next Church

Churches & Chapels - Vermont Timber Works

Separation of Church & State!! -- is a mainstay view of mine, and you are welcome to search the archive to prove it otherwise. But it is folly imo to post '1910 Emma' here within a sputtered to whimper and gone economic hyperlink and laws in absentia while apples still fall down, many find great utility in stopping at red lights, and Dick Cheney may be the greatest anarchist the world will ever know. Here, from your own link:

A practical scheme, says Oscar Wilde, is either one already in existence, or a scheme that could be carried out under the existing conditions; but it is exactly the existing conditions that one objects to, and any scheme that could accept these conditions is wrong and foolish. The true criterion of the practical, therefore, is not whether the latter can keep intact the wrong or foolish; rather is it whether the scheme has vitality enough to leave the stagnant waters of the old, and build, as well as sustain, new life. In the light of this conception, Anarchism is indeed practical. More than any other idea, it is helping to do away with the wrong and foolish; more than any other idea, it is building and sustaining new life.

Separation of church & state are not Emma Goldman's words. They were thought exist-able long before the fall of Czarist Russia. But that was then this is now, and people of conscience on the left, well some people of conscience on the left are indicating ways and points of interaction where "existing conditions" are able to be birthed into a future within the "true criterion of the practical"
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. Is there room under the...
bus for these bigoted LGBTs?
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. I fucking hate ghost writers. They disgust me.
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nomorenomore08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Yeah, that ghost from that TV show was fuckin' *wack*, man!
:P
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