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LA Times editorial: Do not prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, et. al.

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Chiefofland Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 09:59 AM
Original message
LA Times editorial: Do not prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, et. al.
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 10:02 AM by Chiefofland
The LA Times joins other mainstream media outlets and members (except for the New York Times) in calling for doing nothing against law-breaking Bush officials who broke the law by torturing and wiretapping, because see, they did it because we were in the middle of the war on terror. The paper also uses the strange logic that since some Democrats were complicit in these acts, then nobody should be punished:

It's conceivable that individuals in the Bush administration violated criminal law. But if they did so as part of a post- 9/11 response to terrorism, it would be all but impossible to prosecute them successfully.Besides, the scandal of the Bush administration wasn't a matter of individual, politically motivated violations of law. Rather, it was a systemic failure to take seriously the spirit as well as the letter of this country's commitment to the humane treatment of prisoners or the privacy rights of Americans secured by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA.


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-rumsfeld24-2008dec24,0,4191006.story
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. I find that a barbaric idea.
And it got zero traction at Nuremberg, too.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. How about taking us to war under false pretenses?
How about refusal to submit to congressional subpoenas?
How about illegal use of presidential signing statements?

There are a whole series of "high crimes and misdemeanors" this administration has done that needs to be investigated. If they are not, this nation will be held negligent and risk allowing it to happen again.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Constitution does NOT contain the phrase
"unless inconvenient".
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. Had another country committed some of these same actions
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 10:18 AM by Mudoria
(let's use Russia as an example) both the Bush administration and many of these papers would have been calling for full investigations and prosecutions as war crimes. Investigate and prosecute. This country must make sure this never happens again from any future administrations.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. HORSESHIT. Very lame argument, btw.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. The Media Is Part Of A Set of Guardian Institutions Protecting The Status Quo
They have to protect their privileged status to maintain power.

They do this by defending the most egregious behavior of related institutions and their members: Bush and Cheney.

See this DU link for an expanded discussion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x51872#51900
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. And here we go yet AGAIN...
The call for a bunch of criminals to be prosecuted, as they should, is dismissed by the establishment mainstream media.

Are we gonna see a repeat of this particularly abhorrent version of the 'please, can't we all just get along' excuse.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. Wow, look at that, a M$M publication that admits Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, et. al. were complicit
As soon as this newspaper admits it was also complicit i will start reading their editorial page x(
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, to say they shouldn't be prosecuted, is saying they did something criminal! Well, it's
a baby step in the right direction.
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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. Prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney - NOW!
How is this country going to heal? Also, a conviction will make the next version of fascist pigs think twice.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. Why can't upper management be charged with aiding and abetting
Edited on Thu Dec-25-08 10:53 AM by RC
war crimes and lying to protecting government officials guilty of Treason.
This isn't free speech, this is propaganda from enablers for the purpose of white washing the treasonous crimes of hight government officials and protecting the obviously guilty.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well, it's interesting that the L.A. Times would even bring the matter up.
Since absolutely no one in our national political establishment has called for impeachment or prosecution of Bush/Cheney et al for a list of high crimes and misdemeanors unheard of in our history, and since, really, no one of any consequence has called them to account, then the L.A. Times must be responding to us not-of-any-consequence peons--the wage slaves, the poor, the small business people, the looted, the gas gouged, the stop-lossed, the voters, the actual taxpayers, citizen activists mostly of the left, the backbone of the country--the majority. Heaven forfend! Somebody is listening to us nobodies. Somebody is worried. Maybe they just want a piece of the bailout trillions (owner Chic Trib going 'bankrupt'), but it does seem odd and interesting that they would bother to oppose something that the "powers that be" have obviously decided is not going to happen.

Which brings me to the possibility that the Bushwhacks might pay for their many horrible crimes. An editorial like this is more than likely part of a charade that we have any control left over our corpo-fascist chosen leaders. A shadow play. A dumb show. An illusion. A fake democracy. I began to suspect this on 11/3/04, or, more accurately, in the period just afterward, in the deadly silence of our Democratic Party leaders as the scandals of Ohio '04 unfolded and the facts about the extreme vulnerability of the new electronic voting systems to insider hacking became more well-known. WTF?--I asked myself. Are they complicit? Did they push 100% non-transparent e-voting systems, with the 'TRADE SECRET' code owned and controlled by Bushwhack corporations, on purpose, because they were non-transparent? Did they throw the election? There was much war profiteering and other money to be made, and much more shredding of our Constitution to be done, with Bush/Cheney still in power. Did our party leaders want this to happen?

And my suspicions grew stronger after the '06 Congressional elections, when the people voted to end the war, and the new Democratic Congress promptly escalated the war instead, and larded billions more of our non-existent tax dollars on Bush, Cheney & brethren to keep killing Iraqis until they signed the oil contracts. And this so-called Democratic Congress quickly earned a 10% approval rating--worse than Bush's. Also, Nancy Pelosi saying "impeachment is off the table,' right after the election, apropos of nothing, got me to thinking: WHAT table?

So here is what I think our situation is: We have suffered a fascist coup, probably at least partly controlled from outside the country by foreign financiers and major global corporate predators--powers that have no loyalty to this country and its people whatsoever. But who went along with this fascist coup, and to what degree, is not a strictly black and white matter, especially with regard to our Democrats. I think there is a cabal within our national political establishment--possibly including military people, CIA, Congress critters, some billionaires and some corporate CEOs (and maybe even Bush Sr.)--who decided that Bush Jr./Cheney had gone too far, and/or that Bush Jr./Cheney were preparing for the nuking of Iran and martial law and the suspension of elections here, and acted to prevent it. They made a deal with Bush/Cheney: no impeachment in exchange for leaving peacefully when the time comes, no nuking of Iran, and Rumsfeld's ouster. (Somebody may have gotten the goods on Rumsfeld as to 9/11, or other heinous crimes, and the military brass hated him.)

This theorized deal explains a lot of mysteries, including "WHAT table?" (and why Pelosi took impeachment off of it) and, more recently, Cheney publicly admitting approving of torture. What does he care? He has been immunized. It also explains Rumsfeld 'resigning' with no change of policy in Iraq. (That has long puzzled me.)

But--BUT!--democracy has NOT been restored. We are still in the grip of foreign financial powers and war profiteers. The corpo/fascist oligarchy that runs things has self-corrected--to avoid disasters (like nuking the Middle East and possibly killing the planet outrght) and excesses (widespread torture for fun and profit)--but we, the people, still have no say in our country's domestic or foreign policy.

The advantages to the oligarchy of eight years of Bushwhackism are many, including suspension of our right of habeas corpus (they can detain any of us, indefinitely, without charge), vast domestic spying capability (blackmail, entrapment--setting people up), suspension of posse comitatus laws (use of the military against us)--basically, the shredding of the Bill of Rights--privatization of numerous military functions (VERY profitable), vast, unheard of presidential powers (rule by secret fiat), the great weakening of all government (especially federal) agencies and their regulatory powers, a hugely unfair tax structure, vast looting of our federal treasury unto the 7th generation--no money for education, medical care and other social/economic recovery programs--and much more.

The 'white hat' cabal that put this theorized deal to Bush/Cheney are not all 'bad guys'--selling away our right to impeach, and the necessity of impeachment in this case--and they are not easily categorized as traitors, but they ARE part of the war profiteering corporate establishment and they are beholden to foreign financial powers. It is my opinion that, if such a deal was made, some of them did it with good motives (in their own lights), but what we are left with is only the shell of a democracy, with even our right to vote now controlled by rightwing Republican corporations, using 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code to 'count' all our votes, and with 100% non-transparency in half the voting systems in the country (and not much better in the rest).

The bill to privatize our election system, and render it non-transparent, was passed by the Anthrax Congress in the same month as the Iraq War Resolution, and is closely related to it, in my opinion. The IWR guaranteed the hijacking of our military for a corporate resource war; the e-voting bill provided the means to shove that unjust war down the throats the America people (nearly 60% of whom opposed the invasion of Iraq during that period--all polls, Feb '03). The '06 Congressional elections were also conducted with virtually no transparency (ability to audit and verify the vote). So, too, the recent Presidential and Congressional elections (although there have been some improvements--the adding of a paper trail in some states, but with poor to zero auditing of that paper trail; the paper trail only of use in contested elections, for which the rules are very restrictive; recounts are expensive and hard to obtain). The election system is still VERY manipulable--directly by 'TRADE SECRET' code, and by campaign money/lobbying and the corpo/fascist press.

I think Obama was vetted by these people (the 'white hat' cabal), after he won so many early caucus state primaries (NOT counted by Diebold & brethren), agreed to their terms, brought Joe Biden on board as the rep of the war profiteers, brought the whole Clinton crowd on board, as the reps of the corporate powers in general, and tailored his program to suit them, meaning only cosmetic reform and continued corporate looting and profiteering of every kind, but with slightly more consideration for the American people. No one with intentions of serious reform would have been permitted to get anywhere near the White House. Obama was permitted to win the election. He did win it, I believe--partly because his supporters (most Americans) projected their desire for serious reform onto him. I think he won it much bigger than the numbers show. (His mandate was shaved, as a further handicap on him, added to the trillion dollar additional bailout sink.) But he had to promise no serious reform and no prosecution of major Bushwhacks.

So there will be no official prosecutions, just citizen efforts like the 2004 election fraud lawsuit current in Ohio (an important witness, Rove's main IT guru, Michael Connell, was just 'Wellstoned'), the Plame civil lawsuit, and other such efforts to achieve some kind of accountability. Don't expect it from the Obama administration. If they had not promised to forego Bushwhack prosecution, they wouldn't be entering the White House next month.

My opinion. All from guesses and reading entrails--what we are reduced to doing, these days, as citizens.

So why would the L.A. Times bring it up, and write the Bushwhacks' defense? I don't know. Best I can do, by way of guessing, is that it contributes to the charade that accountability is possible.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
13.  Corporate blather.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. From a bankrupt corporation no less
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Metaphorically, as well.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Shrub and his cronies need to be prosecuted. And...
if "some Democrats were complicit in these acts" then they also need to be prosecuted. This is not a political issue. It's about the rule of law.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. Fuck that. Hold them accountable. nt
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Because prosecuting the war criminals...
...would expose the role played by the Los Angeles Times editorial page. Or the role they failed to play, or something.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. "The Bush administration's lawlessness calls for a serious reckoning, one that already has begun
with a scathing report....". They can't be serious? This is completely unbelievable.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. The hell with that. This problem needs to be nipped in the bud. Future politicians need to be scared
out of pulling this BS in the future, by having these people prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. screw that!
Short of a pardon we've got them dead to rights on a number of charges...

Hell they confessed to a number of them live on national TV..

:eyes:
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. Every day it seems the LA Times finds a way to suck more and more ass,
and they wonder why their circulation is imploding.:eyes::puke:
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. D'oh - dupe post. My point is, the LA Times is a crock of skunk crap.
Edited on Sun Dec-28-08 12:31 AM by Phredicles
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
24. Maybe the LA Times needs to feel some repercussions.
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