So how long will calling Obama a "bigot" for the Warren invocation debate last?

[zulchzulu]

Poll question: So how long will calling Obama a "bigot" for the Warren invocation debate last?

Pay no mind that Reverend Lowery, who is for gay rights/gay marriage, speaks at the end of the inauguration...

[IndianaGreen]

1. Rick Warren is, and will continue to be, the narrative until January 20

Both Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow pounced tonight on new revelations about Warren's bigotry, not just to gays, but to everyone else that is not a righwinger. Gay Christians cannot join Saddleback Church, and Rick Warren runs a program to "cure" gays from their homosexuality.

Man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. There was never a time when dinosaurs ruled the earth. From the very beginning of creation, God gave man dominion over all that was made, even over the dinosaurs.

<snip>

Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church.

http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509#q_49

[zulchzulu]

4. Did either Keith or Rachel mention Lowery doing the benediction at all?

I missed it. But I would guess they don't mention Lowery because, shucks, that's not what circular firing squads do.

:crazy:

[mondo joe]

6. Does Colmes get mentioned as often as Hannity?

[zulchzulu]

10. Does squirrel piss get mentioned as often as chihauhua poop?

A very good question...

[mondo joe]

18. Which racist will Obama invite for an honored role and then provide a counter?

[zulchzulu]

31. I don't know. You tell me. n/t

[mondo joe]

32. I don't expect he ever will. His concessions in this vein always come at the expense of GLBT

people.

[zulchzulu]

37. So you refuse to acknowledge that pro gay rights Reverend Lowery will also participate?

Are you intellectually consistent or an abject whiner with zero credibility?

[mondo joe]

38. Of course I acknowedge it. And when Obama invites a racist and a counterpoint, in

a similar fashion, to reach out to racists, I'll take him seriously.

[zulchzulu]

40. OK, so Obama is a bigot (for Warren) except he's not a bigot (for Lowery)...

How twisted.

[mondo joe]

42. He's enabling a bigot. Lowery doesn't change that. NT

[zulchzulu]

46. You are enabling the bigot by bringing more attention to him than is needed

Get it?

[mondo joe]

48. Ah, a plea for denial and cover up.

No thanks. I don't play dysfunctional family games. :-)

[QC]

59. Cause nobody would have known anything about this if not for Mondo Joe.

Damn you, Mondo! Damn you to hell!

[mondo joe]

60. Hey fuck off. I'm a god damn font of knowledge.

:fistbump:

[jonnyblitz]

43. why in HELL do you think Lowery somehow negates Warren? nt

[IndianaGreen]

62. But, but, Obama has invited the gay marching band

Let's invite David Irving, the Holocaust denier, and as long as we have a Jewish presence such as a klezmer band, it will make it all okay.

[zulchzulu]

70. Maybe because IT DOES

You can't actually see how having Lowery speaking at the end is a good thing? Really? I mean, like, really?

[mondo joe]

73. Try a meal in which some parts are good and some parts are poison.

Let us know if the poison gets canceled out.

[Hanse]

12. I'm pretty sure they didn't bring up Pat Buchanan either.

You know, the crazy homophobic bigot they regularly associate with.

[Divine Discontent]

7. great post Green....

the OP has made several starter threads defending Obama's slap in the face and poorly decided choice of putting such a foul mouthed bigot in as the guy giving the prayer! It's shockingly dumb. And for all the reasons we know Warren is a bigot, plus the additional info you provided - it should have made Obama have some hesitance to put a man that spews HATE SPEECH (apparently not the kind Obama gets offended by, me however, I defend blacks, women, etc all the time, and I'm a Gay man).

Thanks for your great words, again.

[zulchzulu]

14. So why not the equal amount of praise for Obama including Reverend Lowery?

Is that too difficult to actually summon up a fair exchange?

Reverend Lowery (openly for gay marriage/gay rights and against homophobia) is speaking at the end of the ceremony. Why isn't he getting the same amount of praise as is Warren (who I think is an ass for his anti-gay opinions)?

Can you be fair? Is that even within some semblance of intellectual discussion? Do you have to insult me?

[Divine Discontent]

16. there's no fair when you include someone who spews hate speech?

Understand that? That should be so obvious? Letting a KKK preacher give the invocation is an insult to humanity and esp. to black people and other minorities, then allowing say Jesse Jackson to do the benediction doesn't make it OK!? The dude says Gay people are like pedos, polygamists, and those who commit incest.

[zulchzulu]

28. I understand the dilemna... I even wish Warren would rescind his appointed slot...

...but he ISN'T.

Great if he does... but...

Do we give Warren more relevance by protesting him knowing that he will:

1. Get more attention and possible followers to his cause
2. Get him more media attention and make him more popular
3. Still do the invocation (which generally lasts about a minute and a half)

I say we celebrate Reverend Lowery, who will close the inauguration ceremony, and is very much for gay rights/gay marriage. Why give the asshole more attention when you can give the person you (and I) agree much more with?

See my point? Embrace Lowery, ignore Warren.

[Divine Discontent]

80. just to have facts be correct - Lowery is very much against Gay Marriage

And, to put the onus on the people deeply offended by putting a guy who equates black marriage to pedophilia, incest, and polygamy, is kinda funny - as it's Obama's choice that caused this, and, Warren was going to milk the status given to him by Obama for giving his invocation at the inauguration and appear on show after show - there was no thinking he would be brought up in the press even if only 10% of the people upset about him stated their anger over it.

Agreed, it's a messy situation.

[lapfog_1]

94. This is NOT Rick Warren's fault nor his responsibility.

Do NOT put this on Rick Warren.

You need to look to the person who has the authority and the responsibility to either invite or not invite.

As for your Lowery nonsense... false equivalency. But then you knew that already.

[alwysdrunk]

93. No it won't, not enough people care

The media will move on. Even DU will move on before the 20th.

[Joe the Revelator]

2. Depends on who is using the word bigot.

People who are truly mad about Warren will see that Obama is not a boogyman when he gets in office and will do much more to further the causes of the gay rights movement and will stop calling him a bigot


The vocal few who have been calling him a bigot because they don't like him and were looking for an opportunity will continue to do so for the next eight years.

[apocalypsehow]

5. Precisely - said it much better than I tried to.

:thumbsup:

[lostnotforgotten]

21. I Voted For Obama - Enabling Bigots Was The Wrong Thing To Do

And the wrong message to send.

Your defense of him is a second hand version of the typical DU apologist and appeaser behavior we have come to expect from many at DU.

[dkf]

24. He has a history of listening to people from all different points of view.

What were you expecting? Are you really surprised?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zulchzulu]

34. I Am Surprised By The DU Peeps who refuse to congratulate pro gay rights Rev. Lowery

Why is that? Too cowardly or too intellectually dishonest to see the whole picture?

[lostnotforgotten]

36. Positive And Negative Canceling Each Other Out Do Not Progress Make!

eom

[mondo joe]

47. If you slap someone in the face, and then kiss it, is the slap canceled out?

[zulchzulu]

61. Depends on the date and what you've been drinking...

C'mon.

Are you equally as pissed at Judge Roberts, who will do the swearing in? Are you equally as pissed at Di FI, who dragged her feet on fair election electronic voting reform and being a war hawk?

Look at all the people at the inaugural event. Lowery included...

[mondo joe]

63. You can make light of the question, but if you take it seriously for a moment you'll

get your answer.

[apocalypsehow]

3. Voted "forever," because it is largely those who never supported Obama who are flaming the most.

I expect we'll hear much about Rick Warren here for the next four years, and it will always be - "round up the usual suspects."

[Divine Discontent]

13. there's some reason for that - Obama was already on questionable alert with the GLBT community for

solid reasons. He's offended a few times already. You 99% chance aren't Gay, and I'm not expecting you to understand how his letting this man and his hate speech get such a huge springboard to spew it from, but I'd appreciate you understanding that GLBT people are many of the people you see standing up for other's rights - whatever those people look, sound, talk, or come from.

Have just an ounce of understanding what it must feel like to be Gay and here him say the crap he's said, and then see the P.E. pick him for the prayer on the biggest day in years.

[apocalypsehow]

17. I don't agree with the Warren invocation, and have stated so repeatedly. I support full marriage

rights for my fellow citizens who are GLBT, and have stated that repeatedly - my being straight has absolutely nothing to do with any of that (but thanks for the unfair shot).

My point is that 1. President-elect Obama is INFINITELY better than the alternative for GLBT rights in this country, and 2. Many, many, many of the posters who are flaming the most about Obama regarding this Warren matter curiously never evinced an interest in GLBT issues until this Warren business came up - if you catch my drift.

That is all I'm saying. Peace.

Edit: made my point clearer.

[zulchzulu]

20. Why do you wrongly assume that perhaps straight people can't understand LGBT rights?

Is it some kind of "I'm a victim" bullshit?

I have done lots of grassroots efforts for LGBT rights for at least 15 years and still get insulted by some who think that you have to be gay to understand gay rights.

Add that you should perhaps joyfully applaud that Reverend Lowery (gay rights activist) will be speaking as well. Are you going to insult Lowery too becuase perhaps he isn't gay? Are you too cowardly to admit that including Lowery in the inauguration ceremony is a good thing? I mean, shucks, it's not popular to actually have a balanced opinion when the apparent way to go it to get on the "Obama Is A Bigot Because Warren Is Doing a Two-Minute Prayer" bandwagon.

Do I like Warren? No. Is it cool Lowery is speaking at the end of the ceremony? Yes.

[Divine Discontent]

81. many other posts I acknowledge non-gays standing up for gay rights

I don't have to put it in every post. just to clarify that you understand I don't feel that way. I appreciate your support, and ignore the first line in your body, as you didn't know. Secondly, I reference it the way I did to that person, because it sounds like they're one of the non-gays who doesn't get it - thus my message to them.

[dkf]

25. I voted forever too.

Based on the sheer volume of posts and the vitriol aimed at Obama.

[mikehiggins]

8. Other

Warren will be big news until the Left gives the MSM something else to hit Obama over the head with.

[NYC_SKP]

9. Looks like four or five members here will never let it go.

Sad, really.

[Divine Discontent]

15. right. 4 or 5. ignore how a majority of active users rec the threads against this choice

to the tune of hundreds of people.

[NYC_SKP]

22. Big difference.

I rec those threads too, but I don't call other members homophobic.

The four or five I mention are the those who will never let it go and have been happily bashing good DU members who also oppose the selection.

Big difference, huge difference.

I'm talking about the ones who have taken it too, too far.

They are not rational.

[stillcool]

26. Do you think agreeing..

that he made a bad choice for..what is it? 'invocation' is valid reason to kick his ass to the curb for the next 4 years?

[Hanse]

11. A few more days.

It'll linger another month, but most of the noise will be gone in a few days.

[lostnotforgotten]

19. Once You Enable Bigotry That Stench Last A Lifetime - He Will Never Live It Down!

eom

[zulchzulu]

30. If you include pro-gay rights advocate Reverend Lowery, do you enable anti-bigotry that lasts?

Warren will be there. So will Lowery.

Both will be there. You can't say only one will be there when both are there. Therefore, if you are intellectually consistent, you would say that Obama also embraces pro gay rights/gay marriage opinions.

[mondo joe]

33. Ah, FOX style Fair and Balanced. *cough*

[zulchzulu]

39. Yeah, I put that in knowing some people would bite that piece of cheese...

So, again, no acknowledgment that Reverend Lowery (pro gay rights) is also speaking? Can't do it, can you...

[mondo joe]

41. Is that supposed to excuse something?

[lostnotforgotten]

35. So Is That Obama's Theory Of Governance? Positive And Negative

Cancel each other out.

Seems a non sequitur because it implies zero progress and ongoing political, societal stasis.

[zulchzulu]

44. OK... so you missed out where Obama will try to work with bost sides on issues?

Maybe you were asleep? No?

Warren will not do some screed in his invocation prayer where he disses gay rights or calls gays pedophiles or whatever. He'll read some shit from the Bible and maybe a couple phrases about America and whatever corny crap he throws in. It will last about a minute and a half.... just like boneheads like Reverend Billy Graham did for five presidents before him.

This is when you're making sure you have a beer, a joint lit, pizza ready or whatever if you're watching at home or that you're trying to get closer to the stage OR turning your back (like I will) if you're at the inauguration.

Then it's done. Big. Fucking. Deal.

Then Aretha sings some cool shit and some other stuff and then Obama rocks the World.

Then some other junk and then openly for gay rights/gay marriage Reverend Lowery does the benediction and close the ceremony.

Then we party.

Then we reverse eight years of Bush bullshit.

Got it?

[mondo joe]

45. On which other civil rights issue will he work "both sides"?

[zulchzulu]

52. That's our job

Believe it or not, I actually have done lots of grassroots work since around 1986 FOR LGBT/gay/queer rights. I am not alone on DU or elsewhere with those kind of efforts.

Yeah, some people don't believe me or try to make it like it doesn't matter, but that's what I do. I want no praise and I'll hit back if you insult me for my efforts.

Will Obama at least get legislation passed initially for domestic partnerships and civil unions in his first term? Goddamn, I hope so.

Will Obama at least get legislation passed for same sex marriage to be legal by his second term? You and I and everyone else who wants that will need to make sure it DOES happen.

As for the Warren/Lowery "balance", it will be a footnote in history compared to what REALLY needs to get done.

[mondo joe]

54. No answer to my question, I see.

Funny how the only time Obama wants to do *outreach* on civil rights, it's at the expense of GLBT people.

[lostnotforgotten]

50. SO There Will Be No Progress On Civil Rights According To Your Rationalizations

I guess you want to return to the 50's as well?

[zulchzulu]

65. Ferrchrissakes, you didn't mention Hitler...

For that, I commend you on your post.

:crazy:

What part about my post did you say we need to go back to the '50's? Get a better crack dealer.

[lostnotforgotten]

72. I Am Merely Speculating That As A Barack Bigot Rationalizer

Your arguments are beginning to sound much like the center right.

Stasis at all costs - no progress ever - why can't we all just return to a simpler time?

[stillcool]

23. Obama is a racist, a bigot, and speaks openly

to deny civil rights. I just read it. I don't think this is anything new..more of a continuation. I'm not sure it will ever end.

[NoPasaran]

27. A few more days

Then some fresh outrage will come along and everyone will be in a fury over that.

[LeftyMom]

49. NOBODY FUCKING CARES ABOUT LOWERY!

Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, you've been banging on about Lowery in every thread on this as if inviting one guy who isn't a bigot made giving a bigot a platform acceptable.

He didn't have to choose to invite any bigots at all, and he did. That's NOT OKAY.

[zulchzulu]

56. Of course not! That would be fair!

Why have a perfectly honest discussion when you can crash into the train wreck of dishonest, unbalanced political theater.

[LeftyMom]

64. It only takes one bigoted asshole to ruin an event.

And if Obama doesn't care enough about his gay (or female, or Jewish, the guy's got lots of fans) supporters to avoid inviting somebody so offensive to them, it really says a lot about the depth of his support for his traditional constituencies.

[zulchzulu]

79. Were you a Hillary supporter?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would then assume you were VERY upset when Hillary Clinton spoke at Rick Warren's AIDS Conference in 1997. I mean, gee whiz, how dare she speak at a conference in front of evangelicals as well as participate in an event that a lot of right wing Christian fundamentalists shunned Warren as some crazed Satanic worshipper.

[LeftyMom]

82. Bwahahaha! NO.

No, am not by any stretch of the imagination a supporter of Hillary Clinton, nor have I been.

But nice try.

[zulchzulu]

86. WHY NOT?

:hi:

[LeftyMom]

90. Doesn't really matter now, does it?

:shrug:

[QC]

57. Yeah, it's like mom and dad had the dog put to sleep,

but they let you keep the turtle, so what are you crying about, kid?

[sundog]

51. bigot?

i don't think obama's a bigot

warren was just a terribly ill-timed, insensitive & misguided decision on his part

sorry, but he's gonna have to own up to it

the fight for civil equality has never been a pretty process... you are witnessing it now

and now is the only time, because tomorrow will never come

if this "outrage" causes people discomfort, well that sucks for them

but chances are, those most discomforted by our voices are eating prime rib at the table while the rest of us are getting crumbs

advancement of society as a whole does not come by the impediment of specific groups within it

and if we don't speak up now, we never will

i like obama & have supported him since the primaries, but he's gonna have to live up to his rhetoric

the warren move is at minimum cynical, so i'm sorry if our apprehension to laud this decision is inconvenient

your poll tells me you're missing the whole point anyway, but this post is still worth a shot

[lostnotforgotten]

53. No, But He Is At Least A Bigot Enabler

eom

[zulchzulu]

67. People who give Warren more attention that he deserves ARE Bigot Enablers

Perhaps you don't understand how enabling someone works?

If you give someone who you disagree with MORE ATTENTION, they love that. You ENABLE them.

If you give someone who you disagree with NO ATTENTION, they hate that. You IGNORE them.

[lostnotforgotten]

68. Yes - And That Would Be One Barack Obama!

Had Barack not made such a colossal blunder this discussion would exist.

The blame lay with Barack not with those of us that abhor what Warren represents.

[AlCzervik]

69. so about 60 or 70 million will be enabling him on 1-20-09 and that is sure much

attention than he deserves.

[bluedawg12]

71. If you invite them to a historic inauguration you're an enabler.

[mondo joe]

75. Very dysfunctional family gaming there. Dad drinks too much? Don't talk about it.

I didn't grow up in that sort of family.

[AlCzervik]

55. omg Sundog!!! Well said and i'm so glad to see you!!!

:hi: :loveya:

[sundog]

58. ...

:hug:

[zulchzulu]

74. Are you against Christians too?

Where does the Purity Test end?

[sundog]

76. i'm against sarcastic polls

[libnnc]

66. Silly me. I thought Barack Obama was sensitive enough,

bright enough, and savvy enough to avoid this dumb, ham-handed, idiotic, piss-poorly timed move of handing one of THE biggest bigots in the NATION a NATIONAL PLATFORM AT AN HISTORIC EVENT.



My expectations of him were way too high, I guess.


THAT'S MY BAD.

[zulchzulu]

77. So will Warren's 1:53 second stupid prayer ruin your World and you won't watch Lowery speak?

Is Warren an ass? Yes.

Will his invocation (which will be a small amount of time and not even mention gay marriage) destroy all hopes of civil rights for all in the next eight years? If you're only interested in engaging in a dishonest discussion based on political theater and "Poor Me, I'm a Victim" mentality , perhaps that would be the conclusion.

Will it be the end of any efforts EVER for gay rights in the Obama administration? I don't think so.

[libnnc]

78. (facepalm) n/t.

[Divine Discontent]

83. I see the 'poor me, I'm a victim' line again. really, stop being rude. I ask you kindly.

if you continue putting that in posts you're are insinuating you don't give a damn about Gay rights as you said. I want to believe you do, but using that line is very condescending. You don't know, honestly, what it is like to be Gay, so be respectful if you would.

[zulchzulu]

85. I guess I get a tad peeved...

...when I see that some people who are gay don't think that people who aren't gay can ever understand the bullshit that is going on.

Am I pissed about the Warren choice? Yes. Is it the end of the World when some one like Reverend Lowery (who the commentators will mention is for gay rights) also speaks? No.

You're correct. I don't know what it's like to be gay. As corny as it sounds, I have gay friends (who I just consider people, not gay people) as well as uncles and a brother who is gay, who I fully support and love.

[Divine Discontent]

88. thanks for understanding. I don't think of people as "straight" or "gay"

except when I want to know if someone I like is gay. Other than that, just like you, my friends don't think about my being gay, unless it is a topic we're discussing.

Anyhow, Obama always came across to me as a dreamer who thinks he can get the jerks to see things his way - since I don't think he'll change his plan to have his friend Warren be doing the prayer, I hope his dreaming comes true.

[otohara]

84. You Happy With The Results

you were looking for?

Who gives a shit is winning.

Your horns are showing.

[leftofthedial]

87. criticism does not equal calling him a "bigot"

criticism does not equal wishing mcsame was president

criticism does not equal throwing him under the bus

criticism does not equal any of the hyperbolic nonsense Obama supporters are spewing.

If you think criticism of the Warren choice is unwarranted, you need to go do some quiet meditation.

The Lowery benediction has nothing to do with the Warren choice. There are tens of thousands of candidates to do the appeal to the invisible friend in the sky. Obama did not have to choose a bigot.

[alwysdrunk]

92. He has been explicitly been called "biogot:" on DU and TIME magazine

Many people have stated they would "take back" their money and support for Obama that helped Obama win and McCain lose.

Many people have also vowed to support another candidate in 2012.

I can't believe you use the word hyperbolic and apply only to Obama supporters. Do you have the gay police squad all on ignore?

If you think it's okay to run around calling Obama and Obama supporters bigots and homophobes you're the one that need to meditate.

Woulda shoulda coulda. There should be no religious presence here at all. This happens every time. "America's pastor" is always invited to speak. Used to be Billy Graham, now it's Rick Warren. It is what it is.

[leftofthedial]

95. I've been pretty busy in posts on this matter.

I haven't seen anyone use the word "bigot" to describe Obama, which is what the OP claimed here at DU.

It is okay to call a bigot "bigot" wherever that bigot resides. No meditation required.

I'll put you down in the "just get over it/shut the fuck up" column.

[Hippo_Tron]

89. Until Patterson announces he's appointing Caroline Kennedy to the US Senate

Or until the pictures of Jon Favreau groping a cardboard cutout of Sarah Palin surface.

[madmadmad]

91. supporting a bigot, makes you a bigot by default. NEVER FORGIVE & NEVER FORGET

as for the lowery bullshit- asking jesse jackson to speak after asking david duke doesn't cancel out why the fuck you would invite duke in the first place.

[Phx_Dem]

96. If Obama is a bigot, so is Bill Clinton for his relationship with the Saudis

This board has gone off the deep end.

Pay no mind that Reverend Lowery, who is for gay rights/gay marriage, speaks at the end of the inauguration...

Yep, because that doesn't fit with the "I'm not happy unless I have something to bitch about" narrative that has been the case since Obama was elected. It's been one thing after another. The thing is, when people bitch about every little thing all the time, it tends to dilute the big issues that deserved to be bitched about.

The Warren issue may be worthy of some bitching, but I'm so sick of listening to the incessent complaining for the past month, and people have gone overboard with this one, IMO.