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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:00 PM
Original message
Regarding Caroline Kennedy: Mark My Words
If she becomes the NYS senator AND runs and wins in 2010, Caroline Kennedy will be our first female POTUS.

I'm going to show you a few things, and perhaps you will understand why women believed Hillary Clinton stood a better chance than anyone, ever before her, of becoming the first female POTUS:

Mae Ella Nolan became the first woman member of the House of Representatives. She succeeded her husband.

The first woman elected to the Senate was Hattie Wyatt Caraway of Arkansas. Appointed to fill the vacancy caused by the death of her husband, U.S. Senator Thaddeus Caraway, Ms. Caraway then sought and won election on her own in 1932.

The first female governor was Nellie Tayloe Ross of Wyoming who was elected on November 4, 1924 and sworn in on January 5, 1925. She was preceded in office by her late husband William B. Ross.

I shouldn't have to point out the obvious, here, but just in case: each of these women were already well known to their region's voters and had the goodwill vote going for them. However, it appears that it was outrageously easy to create a resentment wedge and divide female voters - the largest demographic block of all - when it came to trading on your husband's name to reach for the highest office in the land.

Enter Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg - America's lost princess of Camelot. By remaining out (for the most part) of the political and celebrity spotlight until her 40s, Caroline built up a heaping truckload of political capital and never used an ounce of it until January 2008, when she very publicly switched horses (she had contributed to both Hillary Clinton's and Barack Obama's campaigns in 2007) and put the finishing touches on the Camelot torch-passing ceremony.

There's hardly a woman between the ages of 35-55 who didn't pick up and flip through the copy of Life Magazine when the Princess of Camelot got married and sold those photos. I can still remember the clovers on her dress. Women of a certain age watched her grow up, from a distance, with a mixture of quiet sympathy, curiosity and envy, not the least of which had anything to do with her proximity to John-John, our American prince.

Is that enough goodwill for you?

Now here we are, and we're told she wants a Senate seat. She'll get it. And if she keeps it in the next election, I have no doubt whatsoever, she'll be running for POTUS in 2016. Unless she fucks up and pisses off DC, Washington insiders will cream all over themselves seeing she wins.





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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. HAPPY TO BE REC ONE
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Rec #5.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I was thinking the same thing last week
And a fine president I think she'd make with seven years in the Senate under her belt. What goes around comes around, and this would be Camelot come full circle. Can you imagine anyone doing dirty campaigning against Caroline Kennedy? I hope Gov. Patterson picks her for Hillary's seat and that in 2016 she's running for president!

In OJ's case, karma bit for him. In this case, it would be karma in a more benign, wonderful way.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Last Week
I really hadn't gotten beyond, "if she wants the seat, she's got the seat."

I don't have too much opinion on it at this time.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. Beng a Kennedy will not insulate her from Rethug nastiness. Just ask Ted.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. If she ends up being the anti Palin then there's little doubt of this
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. She and Palin aren't even on the same planet
on so many levels.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. If she chooses, then I have no doubt who Team O will be working for in 2016.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:23 PM by ClarkUSA
Heh.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. how do we know she even wants to be president?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. She Runs
In 2010.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. No, that means she wants to be a US Senator.
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nsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. She's not a natural public speaker and doesn't seem particularly comfortable in the limelight.
I think she could handle a state campaign but not a national one. Even if she does well in the Senate (assuming she gets there), I can't imagine her fighting it out for the Democratic nomination or in the general election. There are too many people out there who are better at the public aspects of politics.

Also, Princess of Camelot? By 2016, more than half a century will have passed since JFK was assassinated. Most voters will have no memory of those days, and will think of the Kennedys mainly as celebrities rather than as political figures.



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RhodaGrits Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I saw her speak in Scranton,
just before the election at an Obama rally. She was poised, articulate, and had obviously become more comfortable in a crowd (a crowd that adored her). I got the impression she was actually enjoying herself. I'm from NY and since I heard she might be interested in being my Senator, I've been over the moon about it.

Her selection would resolve a lot of Patterson's issues with who gets the seat - there's no clear front runner up until now and it was looking like it would go to an "unknown" who represented some group that he owed favors, aggravating the groups that didn't get their name picked.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. I saw her at the convention in Denver, and concur with your assesssment
She's quite comfortable with a crowd now, although she doesn't rouse them with
blazing oratory. I just fear that if she were to run for president as an intelligent,
articulate speaker without a really rousing style, she might end up like Adlai Stevenson,
having to counter people telling him "you have the support of every thinking American"
with the comment "that's not enough. I need a majority," and end up losing like
Stevenson did. Not that history will repeat itself (even the Stevenson story is at
least as much of a legend as it is fact--opinions seem to vary), and I agree that she
would be a great choice to fill Hillary's seat. But it is a leap to the presidency. Only
the fact that Obama leaped from relative obscurity to the White House in four years gives
grounds for such speculation, and history rarely repeats itself (although we could do worse,
and, considering the last 8 years, have done MUCH worse).
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. I agree
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 03:16 AM by Duppers
She doesn't have the charisma/presence of her father or brother. Charm, yes, charisma, no. And she doesn't have a power voice.

Hillary has both. I must acknowledge that even if I disagree with some of Clinton's policies and her position on Iraq.

Besides, in regard to Caroline, a 'princess' does not equal a president!



And, btw, to the OP, I think Palin will be off the stage in 8 yrs. Huckabee is polling barely higher now.

"Huckabee leads in the CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Friday. The survey is an early measure of possible support for the next GOP presidential nomination.

Thirty-four percent of Republicans and independents who lean toward the GOP said they are very likely to support the former Arkansas governor as the Republican nominee in 2012.

Huckabee surprised many by winning this year's Republican Iowa caucuses and seven other contests before dropping out of the race in March and backing Sen. John McCain.

Palin, McCain's running mate, is 2 percentage points behind Huckabee, at 32 percent. Considering the survey's sampling error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points, Palin and Huckabee are basically tied. "
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/05/poll.2012 /



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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
49. I used to feel that way about Hillary.
She got better. A lot better.
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Billy Shears Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. Give 'em Hell, Caroline!
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Mark my words: She'll lose in 2010
Because the NY Republicans will turn her into an underqualified, out-of-touch, rich, elitist New York City liberal, all with the support of the New York Post and every other right-wing rag publisher in this state, plus a few Clintonites who will still be pissed at her for a) being a Kennedy (the Clintons are the First Family of New York, don't you know and b) having endorsed Obama. Having never run for office before, she won't know what hit her.

We need to choose someone who has been around the block; New York's Republicans are wounded and dangerous right now. Does Caroline Kennedy really want to be known in history as a nice lady who couldn't connect with white ethnics from Buffalo?

Choosing Caroline Kennedy for this seat is a bad idea.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah, Just Like They Did
to Clinton.
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. All I have to say is that Caroline Kennedy.
has my support for the 2016 democratic nomination already if she runs.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I don't see the comparison at all
Hillary always had a flair for the game; Caroline is the newest of newbies. She looks brittle to me; one thing you could never say about Hillary.

And who's going to play Daniel Moynihan for her, anyway? Hillary? She'll be too busy as SoS. Bill? He has never run a race in New York State. The only way she survives is if the whole party gets behind her campaign in 2010 the way it did for Hillary in 2000, and I don't see it happening. Plus, I don''t see her enjoying the game as much as Hillary.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. You Don't Need Flair North of Westchester
You only need present the appearance you pay attention.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Highly unlikely unless they unite early and pick a real superstar challenger
But I don't think that will happen. I think in a state as big as New York there will be four or five serious contenders for the GOP nomination and they will claw each other to shreds before the entire thing is over and may end up with a weaker challenger than they should have.

Obama carried the state by 25 points. The math (at least right now) just doesn't show that the Republicans would have the advantage. It may be harder to hold the seat than otherwise but it does not seem as dire as you predict.

Now, on the other hand, if Bloomberg decides he wants to jump in the race as an Independent that might be a serious problem.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Bloomberg won't run
He needs control; wouldn't be able to handle the seniority-based system in the Senate.

Basically, my fears are more about the kind of candidate Caroline would be, combined with what I know New Yorkes want to see in a person. They want heart, guts, a propensity to draw blood. The Republicans can put any hack they want out there and she would have to fight the inclination not to act like a deer in the headlights. This doesn't seem to be her kind of neighborhood, pure and simple.
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SuperTrouper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. The New York Republicans are as strong as NY Reform Perotistas
they are non-existent, just like the CT GOP delegation in Washington: Zero, nada, cero, nil
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. bookmarked
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. Your theory strikes me as reasonable, if she gets the Senate seat now.
I am not quite convinced yet that she will.

:dem:

-Laelth
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. Caroline Kennedy has my full support for whatever she wants.
Both in her personal life and in a political life should she choose one.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. Caroline did not "switch horses." Your own post says she had contributed to both and she never
endorsed Hillary for President, only Obama. Warren Buffet and hoast of other prominent Democrats did similar things. Also, implying that women either went for Hillary or for Obama simply bc of female centered issues is danged insulting to women. Palin's failure among Dem and moderate women should have ended that discussion. I made my choice in December 2007 based on which Dem candidate I thougt had the best shot of winning the general election, not on skin color or private parts.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. So ... You Disagree With the Premise of the Prediction?
Or do you just have a problem with how I got there?
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
29. That senate seat
should have and WOULD have been John John's...
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Yeah, Well, He's Dead
What'reyagonnadoaboutit?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. OMG! What's wrong with you people who ADORE the notion of "political royalty"...move to N. KOREA?!?
:grr: :nuke:
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. there's two compassionate posts in a row by so-called liberals
I guess if you are old enough to have LIVED through the Kennedy assassination in 1963 then maybe you'd feel a little differently
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. ROTFLMAO
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 08:58 AM by ShortnFiery
I'm 50 years old. :evilgrin:




p.s. I never pined for JackieO news and that "Kennedy Camelot" fantasy is way over rated.

IMNSHO, it's time to stand up for "the people" not "the pampered." :-)
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. so you were 5
do you REMEMBER that day? Where you were, what you were doing, what kind of a day it was, who you played with?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Irrelevant. I know enough to not ADORE "celebrity" or WORSHIP "political royal families"
I know enough to depend on myself and care for my family and friends.

I know that POLITICIANS should not be trusted and there is no such thing as "political royalty."

MY "celebrities" are those within my beloved family and close friends who are there for each other in times of crisis.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
30. NO, No more dynasties nor political royalty. Stop this NEPOTISM and/or CRONYISM. eom
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. I Don't Have The Power To
And neither do you. Perhaps you should go talk to future VP Biden about his newly open seat and his spawn?
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
31. What are you, 90 years old or just reactionary?
The nation has thankfully moved past the notion of right of succession based on family name. Caroline Kennedy has been a great servant to the Kennedy name -- in fact she's obsessed with her family legacy, which she's served far better than any other cause. If she runs for office, and demonstrates that she's capable of being among the people and talking with the people, and representing the people, then she might still stand a chance. But, what you're saying is absurd, except perhaps among reactionaries who measure a person by their family name.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Why So Hostile
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 07:37 AM by Crisco
You disagree, that's just fine. No need to throw insults.

And that's a horribly ageist header, btw.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. MY DEAR GOD?!? Look around you at the plight of Our Fellow Americans?
You're not ANGRY and feeling a little HOSTILE?

IMO, you either are dis-connected or not paying attention to the Middle and Working Classes in America.


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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. Wow. Another One
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 09:56 AM by Crisco
I'll never understand why some people feel the need to (try to) start online screaming matches with others. That post has absolutely nothing to do with the OP subject, you're just attacking DUers.

I can't imagine what you get out of it, but I've got better things to do than be some anonymous pinhead's relief valve. You should get help for all that anger.


Bye.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
36. Yes, she'd have all the appeal Palin had for the right.....
.... but she has an actual BRAIN in her head.

I am dreading Jan 21st 2017 like crazy .... she might be the ONLY person who'd take away that dread.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Bullshit! She don't have the chops. Unlike pagans, WE know POLITICOS are not descended from GOD.
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 09:05 AM by ShortnFiery
Even those from the "illustrious" Royal Politico (Camelot = Kennedys ) clans.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. They are too....
... descended from God that is (heh heh, I'm just screwin' with you there.)

Seriously .... so you think Caroline would have LESS appeal than Palin .... which is my point. I hate to tell you this but a LOT of people, on both ends of the political spectrum, vote for a candidate because of an ideal. It's the reason Palin is so popular with the wingnuts. When they see her they get the warm fuzzies of this she-mother "Christian" "family values" iconic figure that represents everything they beleive in. It's the very reason that some are now upset with Barack. They voted for an ideal more so than the actual person (but hey, I'll take it.)

And Caroline would do the same thing. Millions of American women have spent the last two generations being spoon fed the Camelot legend. Caroline would represent all of that magic (whether or not it ever really existed.) And as we all know, as the female vote goes, so goes the nation.

Would Caroline be the BEST candidate the Democrats had to offer? I dont know.

Is she a better alternative to anyout on the right? Yep. And if it takes an icon to get the Democrats in the White House for three straight terms, I'll take it.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. No, no more DYNASTY and/or family political royals. Bring in new blood to Office. eom
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 09:55 AM by ShortnFiery
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. *
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 09:20 AM by Clio the Leo
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Robbins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
48. My Take
Remember among Democrats John and Robert Kennedy are beloved just as Reagen Is to republicans.
Carolane Is no dummy.She has more brains than Bush,Palin put together.She has lived In New York
quite awhile so Republicans can't use the carpet bagger against her.If she Is appointed she can
win In 2010 and win a term of her own In 2012.I can guantee you In 2010 she would be at the top of
senate candiates Obama would campagin for.In 2012 when Obama runs for reelction Imagne the possabilty to vote Obama/Kennedy)one for president and one for Senator) and I can guantee If this
happens and she were to decide to run In 2016 many of Obama's people would be working for her.Her
becoming senator and succeding Obama Is a dream of many Democrats and It would be a nice reality
to have.
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tabbycat31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. one question about the Kennedy legacy
in 2016, there will be a large portion of the electorate (myself included here) that was not around when the Kennedy legacy was at its strongest. In 2016, it will be more than 50 years since her father was president. Do you think that the Democrats who love Kennedy as much as the Republicans love Reagan will pass that love of the Kennedy family down to their children? I know my parents did (they named me after Caroline Kennedy) but I can't speak for others.
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Augdog20 Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
50. Vote in poll: should J lo or other celeb be senator instead of Lady Kennedy?
Cong. Ackerman says J Lo is as qualified as the no-officeholding-resume of Lady Kennedy.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12112008/news/regionalnews/...

VOTE IN MY BLOG'S POLL:
Who should be Gov. Paterson's alternate to Caroline Kennedy?

http://bluesunited.blogspot.com
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