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babylonsister (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 05:59 PM Original message |
Obama's Critics From the Left: As Wrong as His Critics From the Right |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:01 PM Response to Original message |
1. SECULAR = CONSTITUTION = AMERICAN = ALWAYS RIGHT |
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GarbagemanLB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:05 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. The sad thing is, I don't think you are joking. |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:10 PM Response to Reply #3 |
9. I'm not, in this sense: |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:26 PM Response to Reply #9 |
20. no, the country is not founded on 'religious fundamentalism' |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:43 PM Response to Reply #20 |
24. It's founded on secular fundamentalism. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:49 PM Response to Reply #24 |
28. bullshit. fundamentalism is, by its nature, diametrically opposed to |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:52 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. Lesson 2: |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:58 PM Response to Reply #29 |
35. Making crap up again. |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:59 PM Response to Reply #35 |
36. So... Religious fundamentalists do or do not interpret the Bible? |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:04 PM Response to Reply #36 |
43. religioujs fundamentalists, by and large, adhere to their particular |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:08 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. Who feeds them? |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:53 PM Response to Reply #36 |
106. I'm not aware of any mainstream Christian denomination |
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SidneyCarton (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 02:43 PM Response to Reply #29 |
107. Secular Fundamentalism? |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:08 PM Response to Reply #1 |
8. word salad. |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:11 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. That's because you don't understand the Constitution. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:13 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. no, it's because |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:14 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. The Constituion will never make sense to somebody like you. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:21 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. lol. not your twisted interpretation of it |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:22 PM Response to Reply #17 |
18. Would you like to give an example? ...Of course not. You're Cali. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:24 PM Response to Reply #18 |
19. you haven't given an example of what I don't understand and YOU |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:45 PM Response to Reply #19 |
26. You have a problem with my post. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:55 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. fundamentalism is about blind adherence to doctrine, be it religious |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:57 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Nonsense. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:59 PM Response to Reply #34 |
37. more word salad and putting words in my mouth. |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:02 PM Response to Reply #37 |
40. fundamentalism: |
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kevinds13 (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:10 AM Response to Reply #26 |
100. You're correct why? |
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HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:35 PM Response to Reply #10 |
22. If you think a common sense article like that is "stupid" |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:48 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. Anybody who thinks secularism should make concessions to religious fundamentalism |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:54 PM Response to Reply #27 |
31. Hear, hear. Secularism is the only thing that ever allows societies to thrive. |
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Jim Sagle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:05 PM Response to Reply #31 |
46. Fuckin' A. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:03 PM Response to Reply #27 |
41. except no one has suggested any such thing. |
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HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:17 PM Response to Reply #41 |
50. It's a infantile technique - accuse you of being Satan when you're discussing jaywalking |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:18 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Aren't you the guy who just jaywalked this Satan onto your ignore list? |
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Political_Junkie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:17 PM Response to Reply #8 |
14. that's a good term, Cali, word salad. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:56 PM Response to Reply #14 |
33. It's been around a long time - it often refers to schizophrenics' reading and writing ability. |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 10:06 PM Response to Reply #14 |
66. it's a misuse of a real term in psychology... |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 11:24 PM Response to Reply #1 |
70. I think you are taking "secular fundamentalism" out of context |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:03 PM Response to Original message |
2. Given that Team Rookie was the alternative, I'm mostly fine with his appointments. |
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OKNancy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:05 PM Response to Original message |
4. Good article... liked this |
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GarbagemanLB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:06 PM Response to Original message |
5. One word describes Obama: pragmatic. He won't be a liberal version of George Bush, and |
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AndrewP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:18 PM Response to Reply #5 |
58. yep |
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sufrommich (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:06 PM Response to Original message |
6. I agree with every word. k&r |
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MasonJar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:07 PM Response to Original message |
7. I am not happy about Gates. The rest are fine as far as we know at this point. |
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DJ13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:18 PM Response to Reply #7 |
15. Im just the opposite |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:13 PM Response to Original message |
11. It shouldn't be "Who" that we are interested in, it should be "What"..... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:19 PM Response to Original message |
16. off to the greatest page with ya! Progressive Fundamentalism |
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HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:31 PM Response to Original message |
21. Good article. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:40 PM Response to Original message |
23. Why is it that these missives fall apart in the first paragraph? |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:45 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. you've got a point |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:01 PM Response to Reply #25 |
39. I agree there are some second tier appointments |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 10:08 PM Response to Reply #39 |
67. that seems to be the game. nt |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 09:24 PM Response to Reply #23 |
65. Also, by accepting the author's framework, |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:03 AM Response to Reply #23 |
74. Why does it matter unless you and others are reaching for a reason to criticize him? |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:24 AM Response to Reply #74 |
91. That point is almost irrelevant to his thesis |
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dana_b (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:35 PM Response to Reply #91 |
103. Warren, you said it |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 06:53 PM Response to Original message |
30. I don't have a problem with him reaching out - I have a problem if those he reaches out to... |
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Number23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:00 PM Response to Original message |
38. As a non-ideological independent myself.... |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:03 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. fundamentally anti-ideological? |
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Number23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:41 PM Response to Reply #42 |
55. And I think the author's (and my) point is that as a result |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 09:21 PM Response to Reply #55 |
64. The argument is false at it's base, though |
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Number23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 11:55 PM Response to Reply #64 |
72. Could not disagree more |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:05 AM Response to Reply #72 |
81. Were you incapacitated for the run up to Afghanistan and Iraq? (nt) |
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Number23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:33 AM Response to Reply #81 |
83. Did you lose your sight every time millions turned out in the streets to protest those wars? |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 02:57 AM Response to Reply #83 |
88. No one's talking about the general populace here. |
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Number23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 03:19 AM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Just as I thought |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:28 PM Response to Reply #38 |
54. I'm glad people keep on pointing out all the horrible nonsense in this stupid article. |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:05 PM Response to Original message |
44. Schaeffer has it wrong. |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:10 PM Response to Reply #44 |
57. Perfect explanation, bvar22. I'll add that the author is name-calling and making up a storyline. |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:41 PM Response to Reply #44 |
61. Yes, the Iraq War issue is huge |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 11:04 PM Response to Reply #44 |
69. Hot damn! GREAT post! Thank you! You speak for me. I'd like to add just one more thing: |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:07 AM Response to Reply #44 |
75. None of the issues you raised has anything to do with cabinet picks or whether those |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:02 AM Response to Reply #75 |
92. if the pick doesn't have anything to do with the direction.... |
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dana_b (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:41 PM Response to Reply #44 |
104. direct and well stated. thanks n/t |
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Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:05 PM Response to Original message |
45. So this guy is saying that those who criticize Obama are like fundamentalists? |
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DeepModem Mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:11 PM Response to Original message |
48. Please allow me to post more from this piece, which I may have missed... |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:15 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. That's really a sick little excerpt. |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:07 AM Response to Reply #49 |
93. venomous would be the word, or mccarthyite. nt |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:20 PM Response to Reply #48 |
52. As I said, the opening paragraph established the faulty premise for |
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SidneyCarton (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 02:50 PM Response to Reply #48 |
108. Yep, that's about the size of it... |
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gravity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 07:28 PM Response to Original message |
53. The far left can be just a bad as the far right |
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99th_Monkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:07 PM Response to Original message |
56. The Far Left needs to remember what FDR said: "ya, well make me do it" ... |
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IndyOp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:19 PM Response to Original message |
59. I could be wrong, but I think that Schaeffer has a distorted view of our current concerns. |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:13 AM Response to Reply #59 |
77. I dont think that he does... |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:17 AM Response to Reply #77 |
94. that's because you're not coming from the progressive left. |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 05:57 PM Response to Reply #94 |
109. Oh yes I am. If you list what the progressive agenda is, that is where I am... |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:30 PM Response to Original message |
60. How sickening |
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BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:56 PM Response to Reply #60 |
63. Yeah, right. |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:00 AM Response to Reply #60 |
73. You are measuring cabinet picks against the Iraq war? |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:21 AM Response to Reply #73 |
82. The argument is flawed, no matter what it's used for |
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tonycinla (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 08:53 PM Response to Original message |
62. One Disagreement |
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agentS (922 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 10:35 PM Response to Original message |
68. Don't paint us all with the same brush |
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ShadowLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-30-08 11:43 PM Response to Original message |
71. One big thing to keep in mind, Bush would have looked like a centrist at this point |
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Thrill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:12 AM Response to Original message |
76. Great OP-ED. Loved reading this |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:28 AM Response to Original message |
78. K&R, great OP, great article by Schaeffer... |
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Freddie Stubbs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:31 AM Response to Original message |
79. If both the far right thinks that you are too far left and the far left thinks that you are |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:21 AM Response to Reply #79 |
95. that's just abominably stupid... |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:42 AM Response to Original message |
80. I have no problem with Obama reaching out to those on the right |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:45 AM Response to Original message |
84. I find that article by Schaeffer insulting to intelligent Democrats. |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:51 AM Response to Original message |
85. the problem isn't that he has reached out to the right |
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concerned canadian (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:58 AM Response to Original message |
86. excellent article |
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anaxarchos (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 02:04 AM Response to Original message |
87. Ummm, there is only one small problem with all this. |
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Qibing Zero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 03:02 AM Response to Reply #87 |
89. It's a shame that this is the information which will turn people against him |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:26 AM Response to Reply #89 |
96. i sincerly doubt any centrist minds here are going to be changed. |
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anaxarchos (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:00 AM Response to Reply #89 |
98. The source matters. |
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Beacool (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:31 AM Response to Original message |
97. Good read. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:04 AM Response to Original message |
99. I try not to be too hard on Frank |
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Mass (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:15 AM Response to Original message |
101. Sigh. Not even reading this article. Tired of seeing people lecturing others on how |
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Two Americas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:14 PM Response to Original message |
102. remarkable |
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Orwellian_Ghost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 01:42 PM Response to Original message |
105. What about praise from the right |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 06:05 PM Response to Reply #105 |
110. Case closed. |
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