For the record...

[Splinter Cell]

Not everyone that doesn't worship the Clinton family is a "troll". Yes, Bill was a good president. He's also pretty sleazy. You show me somebody that would believe everything Bill or Hillary Clinton says to them and I'll show you an idiot.

I'm not attacking his presidential legacy, or Hillary as a senator. I am pointing out that for those of us that pay attention it's been very clear for years that The Clintons are out for the Clintons first. That's nothing new in politics, and they've had their share of bullshit thrown at them, God knows. But let's not be ignorant. They are manipulative as are most politicians, and I'm fucking sick and tired of people bitching because not all democrats swallow everything they say and claim it the gospel truth.

People say Hillary is out for herself no matter what she does as far as an Obama admin., and they're right. She is. Nothing horrible about that, but lets be honest. She is going to get whatever out of this situation she can. Her ambition will always trump anything else. I do like the Clintons, but I know that they are as shifty as anyone in the history of American politics. So please stop jumping on folks that are not inclined to believe everything they say.

[CakeGrrl]

1. So, what do YOU want on your pizza?

:evilgrin:

[napoleon_in_rags]

2. too much...pizza ...references... one..post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7918359#7918394
http://www.godfathers.com/

head..explosion imminent! :P

[Splinter Cell]

4. lol

[patrice]

3. Curious here: What DU rule has the OPer violated? Please and thank you. nt

[The Doctor.]

7. TiC

You missed the joke.

[Truth2Tell]

6. Pizza and Cake together?

It's like Chuck-e-cheeses around here. Are you going to start tombstoning people who criticize the Clintons?





Oh, wait... you're not a mod! :rofl:

[IsItJustMe]

5. They are what they are. Having said that, I thiink most people know that.

[moriah]

8. You're not attacking, but ...

"They are manipulative"
"out for themselves first"
"Ambition will always trump anything else"
"Going to get whatever out of the situation she can"
"Shifty"
"Sleazy"

...

Yeah, I'd say you're doing pretty well at not attacking. If this is so usual for politicians, why do you feel the need to say it? Do you think the same thing of Obama?

If not....

Can you trust Obama to make the right decisions?

If not... why did you vote for him?

I personally think Bill Richardson has more experience and would be a better Secretary of State. I think he'll be wasted in Commerce. But the decision, no matter who he picks, is up to only one person -- Barack Obama, the President-Elect. I voted for him because I trusted him to make his own decisions.

... and when people use character assassination instead of hard facts or actions to make their points, it bothers me.

[Skittles]

9. hilarious, isn't it?

fucking idiots

[moriah]

11. Unfortunately, that's also character assassination.

I'm sure the people who feel this way are intelligent people.

It's just very easy to allow emotions to interfere with rational judgment, even for the most intelligent among us.

I'm guilty of it myself. It angered me greatly when I saw some of the sexism that manifested during the primaries -- not here nearly so much as in the media. It even angered me to see sexist attacks against Palin, especially when they seemed to start before we knew much about her. As a feminist I cannot say that having an infant child should disqualify a woman from high office, any more than I would accuse a person of being a bad parent for choosing to run for high office. But that's the exact reason my father voted for Obama -- his sexism trumped his racism. I was angry when I heard his reasoning, my response was to say that there were many other good reasons not to vote for the McCain/Palin ticket than that one, but that I was glad he was voting for Obama. But even though the last thing I wanted was for my father to vote McCain, I had to restrain myself from chewing him out for his sexist view.

The Clintons seem to generate a lot of emotion in people -- it seems like Hillary is one of those people who you either love or love to hate. There's very little middle ground.

But looking at them rationally, this is my opinion. They are people, they aren't angels or devils. I don't see halo or horns. They've made mistakes, and they've done some great things (no "but" in that, both are true and neither negates the other). They are intelligent people and neither give up easily. Those are traits that can be good and bad. I hope, no matter what position Obama wishes Hillary to take or stay in, that those are used for the good of our country. And I think Obama is intelligent enough to know how to use the Clintons wisely.

[Skittles]

12. I never said I WOULDN'T assassinate

[moriah]

13. Yeah, I guess it's just me.

I have this weird thing about hypocrisy, I do my best not to let myself indulge in it.

(Edit for clarification -- I'm not calling you a hypocrite, I just can't be one myself.)

[BlooInBloo]

10. As-or-more importantly, Richardson has a diplomat's *temperament*.

But yah to what you said about that as well.

[Splinter Cell]

14. "Character assassination"

Nothing I said about the Clintons is untrue, or really up for debate if you're honest with yourself.

There are some people in our party that think anyone with a (D) next to their name is beyond the typical traits of most political figures.

You can't be critical of the Clintons without somebody getting upset, even though we're all on the same side.

To put it in blunt terms, yes Bill and Hillary can be full of shit. I like them, but this is beyond question. And as far as Obama, I think he has more integrity then either of the Clintons.

Do I trust Obama? Yes. Does that mean I have to agree with everything he does? Nope.