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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:48 PM
Original message
For all the folks posting that they don't like what Obama's done or is doing
That's fine. If you don't like it feel free to express your displeasure.

But don't lie:

don't say Rahm Emanuel is not a liberal (4% rating from American Conservative Union)

don't say Obama promised there wouldn't be familiar faces on his staff on in his cabinet (he promised change, he didn't say he could do that with all new people)

you don't have to like Tom Daschle, but don't act like Obama isn't taking the HHS secretary position seriously when he appoints the former majority leader to that cabinet position.

when you say Obama is not doing anything progressive, stop lying and recognize that he has said he will undo Bush's last minute right wing conservative rule changes throughout government agencies in order to protect the environment and unions.

and you may not think Obama's liberal enough for your taste, but don't lie and say that he is not a liberal when he is planning to expand government to help the middle class, to protect the environment, to expand civil rights etc.

just don't lie and don't tell a falsehood and claim ignorance either. that is if you want to have any credibility with the rest of us that you are trying to convince.

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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm still trusting Obama to do the right thing.
I know he's smarter than me, and can see a lot further down the road. Like a chess player who can see a dozen moves ahead. He'll get us there--he's "got this".
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D-Lee Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. And to hit the ground running ...
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 02:59 AM by D-Lee
Obama needs really experienced people to undo the Bush train wreck -- that one that crashed right into how our federal agencies function for us.

We can't waste a day on a learning curve and it looks as if we won't have to "wait for it." Looks as if Obama is trying to avoid the delays that hindered the start of the last two Democratic administrations -- Carter (too many inexperienced Southerners, sorry but true) and Clinton (slow start, vetting problems and withdrawn appointment offers).

The Department heads are going to need LOTS of experience to untangle the mess on the administrative end. Look at this report: "The Bush administration, however, decided that the best way to reform government was to outsource it. From 2001 to 2005, civilian employment remained at 1.8 million, more or less, while the estimated number of contractor jobs surged from 4.4 million to 7.6 million." That's from this Washington Post article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

(As an aside, how about those Republicans saying Democrats are for "big government"? And when are we really going to look at who got those outsourcing contracts?)

Anyway, that's why I think he is selecting people with experience who actually know how the federal government and White House function, as well as those sure to have no vetting problems.

And this Obama web page for aspirants for political appointments shows that applicants are expected to be aware of just these sorts of issues: http://www.transitionjobs.us/articles-interest
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Personally, I'm tired of lies.......
they are sooooo last Presidential term.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. thanks for sticking it out FrenchieCat
i'm glad to have met you way back when in 2004 at a meeting for Wesley Clark on College Avenue. i don't know if you remember but i do.

funny how we ended up on the same team for the primaries two times in a row. :hug:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Oh wow! I remember that meeting! Wasn't it in the Library?
I was the media diva....as that is what I have been doing forever!

I'm not sure that I remember you....because, of course, I can't see you. LOL!

But anyways, Here's for old time Wes Clark days!

Here's a pic in New York when he first established Wespac,
This proves that I had Wes Clark's ear! LOL!





At a Breakfast meeting in Palo Alto in 2007....
Shortly before Wes Decided not to run this time around.

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks for the photos. I think it was in the library and it was the day Gore endorsed Howard Dean
I guess that was in December 2003. I had gotten hooked on Wes Clark in part due to DU and you told me your username.

Glad to have met you and nice to know you here, the only DU'er I've met in person! Ha. I wasn't memorable there, but you were. :hug:
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks we need more posts of support, I'm getting tired of all the doom, gloom, fear and doubt here
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. I agree.
How easily some seem to have forgotten the last almost 8 years of nightmare we've lived through. And there's still a couple of months left. To be seeing all the "doom, gloom, fear and doubt" so soon after winning an historic election, is just hard for me to even take seriously.

I'm ignoring a LOT of threads right now - no one is going to take the relief I felt on the night of 11/4 away from me! And most certainly not months before we even take office...
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. But that is what DU does
It was started to criticize GW Bush and his cabinet and rightly so, but DU is made up of many camps who are often "their agenda" first, believing only their particular world view is important. This is, for one, going to take alot of time and the man has not even been sworn in yet.

Many on Du wouldn't have an existence if they didn't find some fault in the world.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's ridiculous that this is what's happened within 2 weeks. I'm starting
to question my own sanity here.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I think Inauguration Day needs to be moved way up on the calender.
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 12:10 AM by Breeze54
That might help eliminate the fear. I can't say I blame people for that.

bushtard can do a LOT of damage between now and Jan. 20th.
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shifting_sands Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm waiting to see
Obama's cabinet is at this point filled with DLC people, very centrist, anti populist, and big business among other things. We heard "change and clean up Washington" before from the last President and we got a redux on Nixon's and Reagan's people. Now we are getting a redux of the 90's Clinton people, that doesn't spell change to me, not at this point, like Bush getting his marching orders from Cheney and Rumsfeld, we now seem to be on the verge of Obama getting his marching orders from Rahm and the Clintons plus Libermann, big DLC'ers all. We will soon find out if Obama is what we think or just another version of what we've been through. I am waiting to see, Daschle is just another DLC choice.
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. First of all, Daschle is not DLC, and second of all...
...President Obama will not be getting his "marching orders" from anyone, but the LAST people he'll be getting his marching orders from are the team he beat in the Primaries.

I don't think you really understand how the Presidency works. And BTW, Al Gore is a DLC'er and I don't hear HIS name getting dragged through the mud. Ditto John Kerry and San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. Al Gore WAS a DLCer, but he saw the light
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 09:18 PM by dflprincess
http://www.commondreams.org/views/082000-105.htm

"In abandoning his DLC roots, Gore stumbled on the political reality that Democrats win the hearts of ordinary voters not by repairing to the bland center but by being champions of working families. And they do it by using ample government interventions to balance private power. FDR could have told him that."

Rumor has it that Kerry has also dropped his membership, but I can't find a source for that.


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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. hmmmm....do you like any Democrats?
What's wrong with a Competent Government?
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/blogs/valjonesmd/tom-da...

Tom Daschle's Approach To Healthcare and a Republican Retort
His solutions are these:

1. Universal coverage. If we don't have universal coverage we can't possibly deal with the universal problems that we have in our country.
2. Cost shifting is not cost savings. By excluding people from the system we're driving costs up for taxpayers about $1500/person/year.
3. We must recognize the importance of continuity of care and the need for a medical home. Chronic care management can only occur if we coordinate the care from the beginning, and not delegating the responsibility of care to the Medicare system when the patient reaches the age of 65.
4. We must focus on wellness and prevention. Every dollar spent on water fluoridation saves 38 dollars in dental costs. Providing mammograms every two years to all women ages 50-69 costs only $9000 for every life year saved.
5. Lack of transparency is a devastating aspect of our healthcare system. We can't fix a system that we don't understand.
6. Best practices we need to adopt them.
7. We need electronic medical records. We're in 21st century operating rooms with 19th century administrative rooms. We use too much paper we should be digital.
8. We have to pool resources to bring down costs.
9. We need to enforce the Stark laws and make sure that proprietary medicine is kept in check.
10. We rely too much on doctors and not enough on nurse practitioners, pharmacists, and physician assistants. They could be used to address the primary care shortage that we have today.
11. We have to change our infrastructure. Congress isn't capable of dealing with the complexity of the decision-making in healthcare. We need a decision-making authority, a federal health board, that has the political autonomy and expertise and statutory ability to make the tough decisions on healthcare on a regular basis. Having this infrastructure in place would allow us the opportunity to integrate public and private mechanisms within our healthcare system in a far more efficient way.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. Recommended. nt
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm not an expert on Rahm Emmanuel, but...
...DUers are entitled to consider someone not-a-liberal whom the "American Conservative Union" implies is a liberal.
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. American Conservative gave him a 4% rating which means 96% Liberal 4% Conservative
In 11 years he does have a lifetime record that is higher, 13.09% but he's becoming more Liberal, not less. In 2006 he got the 4% and in 2007 he's at 0% so far. Seems he is learning the new rules.


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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. JUST DON'T LIE. The new mantra. I like it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but we all have to face the facts and deal with reality as it is not as we wish it were.

Why because if we go into that mode, we'd be nothing more that DEM sheeple uttering mindless dreck. And we KNOW how well that turned out for the rethugs.

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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. kick. and 5th rec. oops! it's not. I lied.
lol. but I do like your post. people on this neurotic board need to CHILL the FUCK DOWN.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. I am not at all disillusioned. I worked hard for his election knowing full well that he wasn't
going to be progressive. He wasn't my first choice or my second choice. You still can't blame me for crying while I see our democracy burning. Joe-the-traitor sickens me. What's next Zell Miller in the cabinet? No punishment for BushCo's killing a million innocent Iraq's. I guess in Washington DC they don't turn on each other. They are all in it together.

This is a class war and most of Congress is on the wrong side.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. yes, yes, Zell Miller will be Obama's pick for Sec of Defense
Do you even begin to grasp how delusional and stupid you sound? It's hard to have anything but the utmost contempt for you faux progressives.

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I am confused. You support Joe-the-traitor getting to keep his chairmanships?
My point is that many progressives are already upset at Obama's centrist stands. I just said that I am not surprised.
I feel Joe-the-traitor is in the same league as Zell Miller, and that unleashes your wrath?
I also said that I am saddened watching our democracy burning and the Dem's doing very little about it. How is that faux progressive? What's delusional about anything I said?
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. To be honest,
I'm completely against Obama offering Hillary any position of prominence. However, I'll also say this: Obama could fuck up everything he touches and STILL be an improvement over the past eight years. Let him roll, I say.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Hell, I'll take that
but Obama's going to do a hell of a lot better than that.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. Tom Daschle gave the best speech against the invasion of Iraq. I was totally
into his speech. He gave reason after reason for not invading. Then he ended by saying he was supporting the invasion. I hate him and will never forgive him. Over a 100,000 innocent Iraq children dead and probably three times that amount wounded and ten times that amount displaced and living in refuge camps. Thanks for helping Tom.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. K & R Creekdog great post
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JDwho Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. No one should lie, of course...but let's not forget
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 01:59 AM by JDwho
that Obama (throughout his campaign) has stated that he wants us all to come together, to end bipartisan hatred (let's face it, it's pretty true that we're divided beyond imagination), and to unite. I truly respect his decision to hire brilliant people who disagree with him. We all know that he will hire those who also think along the same line of thought he does, as well. But, in my eyes, although some of his views may be liberal, he is more evolved than just hearing one opinion and one voice. When I voted, despite my utter disdain for everything the repub party thinks, believes in, and says; I was and am truly inspired by his desire to bring the law makers of this country closer together. Hey, he convinced many republicans to vote against their own party. I say, recent history speaks to never underestimate the wisdom of President Obama. He's the smart guy in the room, remember? He sure doesn't deserve any disrespect. We elected him, knowing full well whom we elected, so for those who heard only what you wanted to hear and are complaining, just don't act as if you're disillusioned. Perhaps, those of you who do it, do it out of habit. We've been complaining a very long time. Time to stop and trust the man for whom you voted.

edit for my PS.

PS. Emmanuel was an excellent pick. He's a bulldog and will have Obama's back at every turn. In addition, never doubt that Obama will be calling the shots. I don't believe it's within him to allow someone else to do it, do you?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Well put. The only trouble I am having is getting my mind around letting Joe-the-traitor have his
way. I think it is a slap in the face of the real Democrats of CT and Ned Lamont.
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JDwho Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Perhaps, but he will vote with the Democrats most of the time. There's something in that.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks for posting because I've been blown away by the number of LIES
being repeated by supposedly-knowledgeable DUers. I've been left speechless many times lately.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. Your OP itself fudges the truth. I've read a lot of the posts...haven't seen ANY that say
exactly what you are claiming that others are "lying" about.

I haven't seen any post that claims Obama promised there would only be new, inexperienced people in his staff and cabinet. You are fudging about that.

I haven't seen any post stating or implying that Obama isn't taking the HHS Secretary position seriously. I HAVE seen posts, incl. mine, that merely ASK what experience Daschle has in writing healthcare acts or with healthcare reform.

I haven't seen any posts saying that Obama is not doing anything progressive at all.

I haven't seen anyone say that Emmanuel is not a liberal (though I may have missed this one....I haven't read or seen many on Emnmanuel at all).

So if you want to retain YOUR credibility, it's best to stick with facts. Quoting from some actual posts might be a good idea. Otherwise, people might think you're lying in order to convince people not to question Obama's camp.

Remember how people were amazed that people who voted for Bush wouldn't think of questioning the people he appointed or the decisions he made? You are now expecting Obama supporters to be the same?
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. If you haven't seen any of that, then whats the point of all the complaining.
And by the way, I HAVE seen plenty of posts that are going a long way to imply much of what the OP said. So his/her credibility is perfectly in tact. Not that a thing like that matters on the super serious internetz anyways.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. I didn't link to those posts because that would have been "calling out" and violating the rules
at least by my reading of them.

nevertheless, numerous posters have claimed Rahm is centrist, DLC, and not progressive. well, he is a liberal, representing a liberal district and voting just like that too.

other posters have said that Obama is not representing change because he is hiring people from previous administrations, even though he is not hiring those folks exclusively and even though experienced White House staff helps you implement change more readily --after all, change in large part, must pass the very status quo Congress.

these posts are all around. if you insist I'll give you some quotes (unlinked of course --since I called them liars).
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. I think you're fudging a lot..
if you haven't seen any of the posts mentioned by the OP. Unless you haven't been around lately. It has nothing to do with Obama "supporters", it has to do with the truth. Jeesh. You can complain all you want, just complain with facts. It's fine if you, or anyone else doesn't like Obama, but don't use bogus bullshit to back up your dislike.
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. There is an enormous power structure in place
and it will take years to unravel it. The reason it is in place is because the people of the US were lulled to sleep. Getting Obama in office is just the first step. Now we all have to keep each other awake and informed in order to turn this country around, and keep voicing our opinions, exposing crimes and inconsistencies on the web!!
I think the left (that is most of the US) have to pick our battles and stay focused on them to keep pressure on for changes to occur, otherwise the powers that be will just stay in place. Obama really has just so much power against these extremely rich (remember our stolen trillions) groups of people.
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