So when a torturer and war criminal supports your candidate, he's A-OK huh?

[specimenfred1984]

Good thing war crimes aren't up to DU to decide, although it is obvious what would happen to the war criminals if it was, they'd be forgiven, redeemed and welcomed into the democratic party despite having perpetuated the worst systematically government-led crimes, propaganda and immorality since the Nazi regime in the 1930s and 40s.

So you DUers really just want to forgive and forget the highest crimes possible against America? All I can say is GODDAMN, if that's the case then America is done for. There's no conscientiousness remaining, no reason for churches or schools, no purpose in philosophy or law, no possibility of justice or accountability.

Despite your willingness to let the most despicable of crooks go DUers, the world will never let them go. The world never forgets war criminals because of the hideousness of the crimes, the evil states of mind that led to the crimes and the constant and steadfast conspiracies to follow through with the crimes.

As Richard Clarke said "These people should not be allowed back into polite society".

[cliffordu]

1. Hyperbole, Much???

LOL

[uppityperson]

4. at least this one used nicer language than the one OP posted in GD.

[cliffordu]

5. Yep...the hatred just ooozes, though, don't it??

[specimenfred1984]

18. Accountability for war crimes isn't hatred, it's J-U-S-T-I-C-E

It's what happens in real countries, like the U.S. used to be before torture camps, conspiracies to commit war, etc...you know, little ole things like that you'd like to just ignore.

[cliffordu]

21. Once again: When was the last time a secretary of state was tried as a war

criminal???

Is Powell on the same level as Geobbels??? Pol Pot?? Edie Amin??

Where's the cut off for war criminals??

[Zhade]

36. Why do you keep harping on a difference in degree and not kind?

Do you not acknowledge that powell helped lie us into an aggressive war against a country that wasn't about to attack us?

Isn't the wheelman in an armed robbery that goes bad still a criminal?

[Usrename]

42. Geobbels??? Pol Pot?? Edie Amin??

Interesting that you would choose to compare him to despots and madmen, rather than compare him to any another Secretary of State; men like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, James Buchanan, Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, John C. Calhoun, William H. Seward, James G. Blaine, Walter Q. Gresham, John Sherman, Elihu Root, William Jennings Bryan, Charles Evans Hughes or Edmund Muskie.

There are all manner of war criminals to compare him to, here's one that seems more appropriate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Keitel">Wilhelm Keitel.

He was charged and convicted for:

Conspiracy to commit crimes against peace;
Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression;
War crimes; and,
Crimes against humanity.

[Richardo]

51. Wasn't Edie Amin the partner of Steve Lawrence? Steve and Edie?

:eyes:

[roguevalley]

44. there is no cut off, cliffordu. truly. This is so important I will take

what I can get if it takes us over the line but I don't have to like it or find it acceptable. I hope when this regime changes and people go through the crimes that, if this man is guilty and I am sure he is, that he faces justice for it. Right now, I am willing to accept that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[Kittycat]

2. One thread wasn't enough, huh?

God I wish they'd bring back the 3 thread rule.

[Lex]

15. Like a freakin' echo chamber, isn't it?

nt

[Zhade]

3. K/R

NT!

[sfam]

6. So if someone gives you the wrong sandwich at a Deli do you scream, "Thief! He tried to poisen me!"

You really need to read your posts...He's a torturer and a war criminal because...you say so? Lemme know when you become king of the universe, and then I'll listen. Until then, I'd actually like to go away from supreme executive authority...

[NYC_SKP]

7. Oh puh-leeze. See this post and let's just win for fuck sake.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7515917&mesg_id=7515917

[specimenfred1984]

16. Why do you support war crimes for "fuck sake"?

"Puh-leeze".

[doublethink]

35. YOU OPENED A CAN OF WORMS IN THIS THREAD ...

NOW GET BACK IN HERE AND ANSWER TO THE SHIT STORM YOU STARTED. INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW .... TWO FOLLOW UP POSTS OF YOURS ISN'T SUFFICIENT IN CALLING OUT ALL OF DU ON THIS !!! DON'T BE A COWARD ... IF IT TAKES YOU ALL NIGHT GET THE FUCK BACK IN HERE AND FESS UP ...... RESPOND TO MORE OF THESE POSTS.

[NYC_SKP]

52. I'd feel differently if he was anywhere near the top of the food chain of criminals. nt

[tuvor]

8. Don't shoot the message.

[spag68]

9. specimenfred

What the hell is this idiot raving about???? OK I see it's Colin Powell. I don't remember him being those things, just another decent general taken to the cleaners by bushco. He's a vet, just like me and many others, give him that much respect.

[Blondiegrrl]

10. ...

:eyes:

[bridgit]

11. I believe in "redemption" too, I redeem coupons at Safeway all the time...

:thumbsup:

[Danger Mouse]

12. How the hell is Colin Powell a torturer? Geez.

[uppityperson]

13. Another poster who insists someone be all good or all bad. How about this...

Don't forgive him, but appreciate the endorsement? Have you considered that? Nothing said about wanting to forgive crimes, but expressing appreciation for helping Obama get more support.

Good lord.

[liberalmuse]

14. Meh.

And you know damn well you are being disingenuous. I think you've answered your own question exactly the way you wanted to, while attempting to besmirch many good people here at DU, but that doesn't mean it's the truth. Or even fucking close.

[scheming daemons]

17. Nobody's saying he's OK... we're saying this helps Obama.... NOT the same thing

[bridgit]

23. That's a dangerous position imo

You're saying that all roads lead to Obama even the craggy, precipitous, falling rock strewn, high potential for violent falling death low ones. Like Microsoft Office recommends: Consider revising

[scheming daemons]

26. No... it really isn't.....

Th US needs Obama to win.


Anything that causes Obama to get more votes that DOESN'T negatively harm anyone is PERFECTLY OK.


Colin Powell could have done one of three things:

1. Endorse Obama
2. Endorse McCain
3. Endorse Nobody or someone else

Those are the ONLY three actions he could have taken with respect to this election.

Given that... #1 is the best possible thing that could have happened among that list.

[bridgit]

27. disagreed, he waited sooooo long as to be suspect; talk about seeking a star...

onto which one could fix their coat tails = be thee hot be thee cold be thee luke warm and I will spat you out

[scheming daemons]

28. Again.... the bottom line is "does this help or hurt Obama's campaign"?

There is no way that you could make an intellectual argument as to how this hurts the campaign.

it doesn't.


It helps immensely. Maybe as much as a 2-3% swing in polls in Obama's favor (according to professional pollsters).

[bridgit]

32. This does not help with *democrats*, *democrats* are already in...

this can only, if only help with moderate republicans; and many of them are very cognizant of the mistakes they've made 'choice-wise' previously. This is Powell's chance to redeem a career in which he asked too few questions while holding up vials of white powder that were placed in his hands by others...he's a smart guy, he should have known better. But he was steeped in implementing plans war plans with little regard for long term impact it would seem. Now? He will have Obama's ear......................

[scheming daemons]

33. If nothing else, it smothers McCain's attack machine for 72 hours....

That ALONE would be big enough.



But when you figure in what this means to Independents (Powell has a 80% approval rating among independents) and disaffected Republicans, it an extreme shot of adrenaline in our favor.

[bridgit]

I suppose that's fair enough. McCain is teetering, may as well push him in a mud puddle...

[Zhade]

41. So if a prominent Klansman endorsed Obama, that'd be okay?

I mean, it would get us more votes, right?

Here's the kicker: OBAMA DIDN'T NEED THIS ENDORSEMENT. He was just fine without it.

[Zhade]

37. Um, wrong. People ARE saying he's okay. They're even saying he did nothing wrong.

I've seen more "respect" and "redeemed" verbiage aimed at powell today than I thought possible on this board.

[Ramius]

19. McCain Palled around with mobsters and Nazis. Palin with Secessionists. OK with U?

[Gregorian]

20. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

He held a vial. But what has been proven. I certainly don't know.

And I don't condemn Robert Byrd. He was a clansman.

[doublethink]

22. ... "no reason for churches or schools," ..... WTF ?

I'm just caught off guard by that comment (one of many in your post) because of Paul in the Bible, New Testament ... Yeah he didn't persecute anyone did he before he changed his ways? Where are you coming from on this? You're anger is oddly placed, at lease expand on your argument here. A lot of well intentioned people were lied to during the Bush Administration .... and they perpetuated the lies. But at some point you just have to move on for the betterment of society, or get mentally crippled in the past. VOTE .... AND FIGURE THIS ALL OUT LATER. Otherwise you continue in the downward spiral that your post suggests. Make a decision NOW .... YOU GOT BOUT 2 WEEKS. Peace, :)

[Miss Chybil]

24. Did George Bush endorse Obama?

I must have missed it. Or, was it Cheney?

[smoogatz]

25. So you're saying that Obama should reject his endorsement?

That seems to be your point by logical extension.

[Tigress DEM]

29. NO. But if he speaks the truth, it's still the truth.

His assertion that Obama is better qualified to lead is true. So why call him a liar or go into all the other stuff right now?

He may just be trying to save his political ass or buy brownie points to get a lighter sentence. Right now the battle is this next few weeks and getting the voters out and the votes counted.

If you are in the middle of a battle and one of your enemy comes to you because they realize the other side is too whacked to support anymore, you don't debate about it in the middle of the battle. You get the information and evaluate it and if it helps your cause and enables victory, you use it and decide later how much credit a traitor and war criminal gets.

You also watch for the trojan horse in the mix or the trip up.

No one should be lauding Powell for finally making an intelligent decision or getting too star struck about him. He has to earn back any trust he gets going forward by doing the right thing.

Rebuild first to minimize the damage and take care of the top priority, the people. Justice will ride but this battle first so we have the power to get our hands on the evidence that is needed to prove who knew what when and how culpable they are.

We have the RNC shooting at our front ranks of voters, so if Powell is for us right now. Fine. Dandy. Don't let it distract us from whooping the RNC down.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bridgit]

31. A-O-Fucking-K!! Let's suck'ah shit load o'buttermilk and do this thing!!

[babylonsister]

34. You are out of line primarily because you never mentioned

who you were talking about and you connected no dots. You flung vague innuendos thinking you are so damned smart. WRONG.
Also, lots of people made lots of mistakes. Can we go back and correct them, or do we move forward, or do we dwell on the fuck-ups? Let me know.

[steve2470]

38. Obama should tell him to fuck off in public and tell him to ram his recommendation up his ass

:sarcasm:

Happy now ?

[BlooInBloo]

39. That's more or less the correct conclusion to be drawn.

[SeattleGirl]

40. Oh fer freak's sake!

Are you a recent graduate of the Don Rumsfeld Drama Queen School, or are you just a person who has no ounce of understanding in you? Someone does something wrong (even BAD), and poof! That's it, ladies and gents! That person is forever and always a bucket of shit in your eyes?

Yikes! Glad I'm not one of your relatives!

[Zhade]

43. Most people don't willfully lie to the U.N. to help launch an illegal aggressive war.

NT!

[emilyg]

45. k/r

[uponit7771]

46. I see Powell as righting a wrong here, don't know if I'd put him in the same boat as Perle

[WeDidIt]

47. Purity Trolls Are Melting Down Worse Over the Powell Endorsement

than the Freepers are.

[jefferson_dem]

49. Purity Trolls...

Exactly.

[olegramps]

48. Maybe Obama is really guilty of all those Republican charges

Let me see if I understand this. You say that Colin Powell is a war criminal and he is guilty of leading us into a war based on lies. Can I conclude that his endorsement makes Obama a lover of war criminals since he welcomed his support? This is the basis of the Republican's ridiculous claim that Obama's brief association with Ayers equates with him associating and supporting terrorists. I would suppose that you would have to conclude that Obama should reject his endorsement. I do know from my reading that Powell did support the concept of transforming the Middle East into democratic nations that was the keystone policy of the PNAC neo-cons. However, I also have to conclude that he was very reluctant in actually invading Iraq and regretted ever having been part of the fiasco. I have to conclude that he was a "useful idiot" of his Republican handlers. They managed his rather lack luster career from start to finish. I don't think that his condemnation of being a war chriminal is as black and white as you do. Seems to me to be very gray.

[bvar22]

50. I am happy to accept his endorsement and his vote.

I will be sadly disappointed if Powell is given ANY position in an Obama administration. Powell has a long history of lack of integrity and a willingness to do anything to please the Corporate masters.

I was very pleased to hear his endorsement on MTP, but I hope Obama has the good sense not to turn his back on a snake like Powell.

[renie408]

53. About the torture thing...

I googled 'Colin Powell, torture' and the responses I got talked about Powell OPPOSING the Bush' administration redefining torture for both being un-American and endangering our troops. What other history of torture does he have? Not doubting you, just wondering...