Go Negative?

[GOPFighter]

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/milbankallen090304.htm

In a live forum on the Washington Post's website, reporter Dana Milbank asserted that the Democrats should go negative.

"I don't understand why the Democrats don't stop complaining about the attacks and go on the attack themselves. As a practical matter, there's little penalty for going negative, or even distorting the other guy's record. The press may tut-tut about negativity, and it should point out the distortions, but little of this gets through to the public, while the attacks generally stick."

"...it seems pretty obvious that nasty is best."

What does that say about our country? <sigh!>

I agree, it's time to get serious. After the Zell Miller "demagogic screed" (Milbank's words) the Democratic Party should have publicly kicked Zell Miller out of the party that very night. Every congressional Democrat should have called a press conference in their district or state and broken all ties with the moron. The party should have called a national press conference and alluded to his "mental problems of late" and suggested he should be hospitalized so he doesn't do harm to himself or the public.

Kerry should have called him an asshole who pimps for the highest bidder. It's time for the Democrats to start going for the jugular, so the public will see that Democrats aren't weenies. Americans are scared, they want a leader who won't be pushed around. Kerry's got to forcefully throw down the gauntlet and show them he won't put up with the Republican's lies and smears anymore.

Smashmouth politics? I think it's time.

[billbuckhead]

1. I agree, Rove sucker punched Kerry with the swiftboat liars

Most of the public expects that a leader would beat the crap out of someone who sucker punched them.

[democrat_patriot]

2. Not negative - truthful.

Talking about *'s horrible record is the truth.

AWOL
plamegate
Enron
Halliburton
Ira quagmire
Abu Ghrabi torture
Riggs bank
No jobs
No healthcare
Saying fast food jobs are manufacturing jobs.
Deferments

I'll stop now...

[Philostopher]

4. You're right, dem_pat

Telling the truth on Bush* and his administration is more than nasty enough -- Kerry doesn't have to resort to ad hominem attacks on Bush's character, there's enough trash hidden in the shrub's closet without 'making shit up' like they always do!

[gollygee]

3. I think he has to

the American people aren't going to elect anyone who backs down from a fight - particularly in a time of war. He's got to fight back, and fight back hard.

[TheRovingGourmet]

9. I agree. One thing I have always noticed here is that if you don't

stand up and defend yourself it is assumed it is because, for whatever reason, you can't. And a "Bush sucks" message is not a counter-attack.

[Czolgosz]

5. YOU should go negative

Whether or not Kerry-Edwards should go negative, YOU should go negative now and every day between today and Nov. 2. You should talk and email to everyone you know and share your negative opinions of Bush. Negative campaigning is best when it grows from a grassroots dissatisfaction (which is what you feel in the pit of your stomach). Let Kerry-Edwards focus on their campaign and you run your own. Yours can be as negative as your feeling about the deceitful pretender occupying the White House.

[newyawker99]

13. Hi Passport!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[wadestock]

6. "Negativity" comes to them naturally....WE NEED TO SHOWCASE FACTS

You see this type congregate together in the workplace....those who have their "sights set high" and who generally enjoy looking down on people.

Their main qualities are arrogance and ignorance. They also generally enjoy manipulating people.

You may have noticed where you work that such people will often look to someone who's bothering no one and attempt to seek out and destroy them for apparently no reason except that they weren't following the "in crowd". This dysfunctional behavior is a fallout of their inherent character flaws and comes very naturally.

The reason they can accomplish so much schit is that they naturally congregate together....then the schit actually becomes cancerous. It's like a brotherhood....and they muse in the fact that they think they know something....something that is the key to success. Try to get them to explain it to you...well they'll stumble over good ethics and what they think is right...but you won't get much out of them because they aren't the real thinkers in our society.

The point is...what they do almost effortlessly and naturally is something that is very difficult for the Dems to do. I remember talking to a guy in the office who was complaining how "he just didn't know how to kiss ass"... like this other guy who seemed to be getting ahead faster....and I said....look, be proud of the fact that YOU DON'T KNOW how to do it. Actually, I have had similar thoughts about myself and have come to realize I just don't have the makeup to be an a%%hole. If I tried to do it....I wouldn't do a good job of it.

So although I agree with your premise....here's the catch 22 involved...
If a good guy like Kerry (or the Dem party in general) goes out and tries to be raunchy....it will be much easier to detect and may backfire. What comes effortlessly and naturally to them is quite difficult for the Dems to duplicate in general.

But even more important....it's better to fight with the facts. The facts are on the Dems side.

1. 18,000 + new terrorist recruits and counting. We are not safer because of "fighting them over there instead of over here". FACT - The lesson of 911 was that a dozen or so men can cause extensive damage using LOW TECH approaches....thus....to thwart future 911s....we must sniff out, attack, and thwart these low tech approaches....not fight global wars against nations which simply add to the terrorist regimes. Focus must be on increased screening, border security, security at major cities and transportation centers, etc. It has been estimated that major improvements to coast guard and ports would cost about 15B. Less than 200M was spent last year on security for major roads and railways. Only 5B extra would install the state of the art surveillance equipment at all airports. (Where the hell has this stuff been in the last 3 years since 911????)
W has clearly dropped the ball on homeland security.

2. Fiscal irresponsibility - 7T + debt...soon to become a PERMANENT tax increase for everyone as you will pay soon 15 cents on every tax dollar and more in the future as the interest on the debt has to be paid. Why don't the dems and Kerry lay out how this specifically results in a net loss for the middle class?

3. Economy in general - There is NO HISTORICAL evidence that giving tax breaks to the wealthiest of individuals returns money into the economy better than SMART INVESTMENTS (although you could make a decent argument that giving money to the middle class actually results in more SPENDING...which is what they live and breath for as an indicator of economic health). In this case we have a no brainer....MUCH NEEDED investments in security and health care are required. The preventative health care measures are a huge INVESTMENT which will MAKE MONEY. If the country weren't broke, up to its a%% in debt and there was plenty of money to go around, then by God give everyone a tax break. Problem is...it ain't so. It is even more illogical to fund such tax breaks to the upper 1% WHEN A WAR IS GOING ON.

BE BRUTAL ON THE FACTS!!!!!

[Cronus Protagonist]

7. Going negative on both sides depresses turnout

We need maximum turnout, which is why the kerry campaign is styaing positive and the Bush campaign will have to follow - both sides need new, infrequent and swing voters.

Lick Laura's Bush - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[MrBenchley]

8. You can fight on the issues and beat them there

they need to get into the clinches and fight dirty...we don't...

[flaminbats]

10. we can't use lightweight boxing techniques in a heavyweight match

we need to start leveling charges and throwing slime more damaging than what they throw at us, and we have to take the offensive before the RNC begins another round of attacks. We can't rely on honor alone to defend against atomic bombs.

[wiggs]

11. sick and dysfunctional administration

This administration is SICK AND DISFUNCTIONAL. The DISASTERS AND SCANDALS (Enron, Iraq, Environment, Abu Ghraib, Energy, Education, Health Care) are JUST THE SYMPTOMS. Kerry or somebody needs to talk about ROOT ILLNESS THAT CAUSES THEM:

Imcompetence
Decision-making that relies on ideology rather than reason
Desire to concentrate wealth at the top
An evil vs good view on every issue
These four lead to a serious belief in DISHONESTY as a tool

All the other problems, the specifics, flow from these.

Pointing out the sheer weight of disasters and scandals this administration is involved in is good. Specific examples are good. But these generalities have to be emphasized also.

The WH managed to pin general labels on John Kerry (flip flopper, weak on defense, liberal) despite lack of evidence. This has been very effective, even when specfics prove otherwise.

It should be easy to reinforce the prevailing suspician that BSH is dishonest, dangerously ideological, arrogant, interested in helping the wealthy, and, based on the sheer number of mistakes made in his 4 years, prone to mismanagement. By staying general, Kerry doesn't run the risk of being refuted by a single month's decent economic news, or an announcement of new domestic programs. I hope it is not too late.

[wiggs]

12. And another thing...

....Kerry should start saying now that the BA's obsession with going into Iraq has left us more vulnerable at home. So that if something terrorist-related happens here in the next two months, the seeds will have already been sown that the problem should be laid at the administration's feet. Doing that after the fact is not nearly as effective.