I was arguing with a right-to-lifer last night.

[Danger Mouse]

She was stridently trying to defend Palin's aerial hunting of wolves, started screeching at me that it's 'ironic that I care more for wolves than murdered babies' and 'I can tell YOU'RE a Democrat'.
So I asked her if a rape victim should be forced to carry a baby to term. A lot of stammering, saying 'there are so many great counseling options out there, why should the poor defenseless innocent life suffer??'
I then added that some of the people I've been closest with in my life were rape victims, and I don't know a single one of them that would've carried a baby to term if they had become pregnant from it.
Suddenly, she was gone.
I hate these people. :grr: Palin and her sick, twisted fundie followers. :puke:

[Starry Messenger]

1. Yuck. Sorry.

I can't imagine how these people get through life with so much cognitive dissonance.

MPK

[Danger Mouse]

2. Heh, when I dropped that last comment, poof, gone.

She couldn't continue. It would've caused her to question her views.

[Starry Messenger]

7. Reality scares them.

Good for you for getting in her face though.

I wish I had a link to the story about anti-abortion protesters who were often spotted by clinic staff inside the clinic...yep, getting an abortion. It's ok for them apparently. It's the liberal wanton hussies who are the scourge they fight against.

MPK

[BlueCaliDem]

11. Anti-Abortion = Pro-Rapist's Rights. This needs to be pounded home each...

... and every time anti-abortionists rear their ugly, hypocritical heads.

There's no other way about it.

You either are pro-choice for women, or you're pro-choice for rapists and incest perverts.

This shuts them up each and every time you hit them with this fact.

[KathieG]

3. I asked one pro-lifer why it's ok to blow up innocent children in Iraq...

but not ok to abort a zygote...didn't get an answer. These people are nuts.

[Danger Mouse]

6. Thinking would be too hard.

[BlueIdaho]

4. Sorry you wasted your time.

You will NEVER change these folks minds no matter how excellent and passionate your arguement is - better to spend you time convincing some "on the fence" moderate to vote for Obama IMO.

[Danger Mouse]

5. I wasn't trying to convince her of anything. I was busy convincing other people about the aerial

hunting stuff.
She just decided to jump in, and I got pissed and decided to fight back.

[BlueIdaho]

8. Sorry - I misunderstood! Don't blame you a bit!

[Shine]

9. My own mother is voting for McBush purely on the "pro-life" issue

:crazy: Believe me, we've had many, many, many conversations like the one you described and it's completely useless.

She's absolutely rigid in her thinking.

I can't hate her cuz she's my mom......but it's pretty disheartening to know our world views are sooooo incompatible. :(

Basically our votes will cancel each other out. How symbolic.

I try to keep the perspective that she provides me with a great opportunity to practice Patience and Compassion.

Trust me, some days that's harder than others. Sigh.

[Danger Mouse]

10. My mother is a registered Rethug...but she hasn't voted Rethug in years.

Thank God. She can't stand the current Repuke party.

But how can your mom have such rigid thinking? I mean, none of it gets through? The hypocrisy of bombing Iraqi children? That doesn't bother her in the least? Argh.

[Shine]

16. I know, it's absolutely mind-boggling.

I've pointed out that exact same hypocrisy myself, many, many, many times.

:crazy:

The rigid thinking comes from her hardcore Catholic backround. Of COURSE, she's against same-sex marriage, too, b/c it "goes against the bible".

:puke: "Arrgggghhhhhh!!!!!" is right. :(

[Danger Mouse]

22. Ask her if she eats kosher. That, too, is in the bible.

There's a LOT of inconsistencies in the bible you can use against bible-thumpers. I should know. I'm a Sunday School teacher. I've studied this stuff.

[firedupdem]

12. Why do they always come up with this murdering babies crap?

They act like women and teens go out scheduling abortions for the fun of it? What is wrong with these people? It's all about the Government not having the right to tell anyone of us what to do with our bodies? These people are sick freaking nuts!

[Starry Messenger]

13. Have you seen Jesus Camp?

The movie about the fundie sleepaway camp for the kiddies? They had a long sequence on this. It's programmed very VERY young and in strong (false) appeals to emotion.

MPK

[RagAss]

14. Where is Jim Jones when we need him?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. The next one I argue with I'm going to ask the following:

"Do you believe that a girl should be forced to carry her father's baby to term?" The problem with the rape scenario is too many people (especially right wingers but they're sadly not the only ones) believe that most rapes are caused by some culpability on the part of the victim (she wore revealing clothing, got drunk, really consented but now regrets it, etc). With incest there's less of that ambiguity (though it probably doesn't completely go away, as fucked up as some people are in their views) so they are pretty much put on the spot to say either, yes I agree with Sarah Palin on this or no I don't.

[dysfunctional press]

17. for a pro-lifer, banning abortions in ALL circumstances is the only defensible position.

i am pro-choice.

for the pro-lifer's, the big argument is that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life.
so- if the fetus is a human life, how does the manner in which it was conceived make any difference? if it was the reult of rape or incest, isn't the actual fetus JUST as human and innocent of the circumstances as any other fetus? :shrug:

like i said- i'm pro-choice...BUT- i can understand the arguments made by pro-lifer's, seeing as they view it as a human life. i don't agree with their perspective, but i do understand it. and because of that, i can also say that 'pro-life' people who are okay with abortion in cases of rape or incest have ZERO credibility.

[grantcart]

18. my I offer a suggestion: when anyone identifies themselves as "right to life"

I congratulate them for being against the death penalty.

When they correct me as they almost always do I simply respond "Oh your not a rigth to lifer, 'your a right to birth' I suppose that you are also against universal health care which true 'right to lifers' are also for?"

[OneGrassRoot]

21. WOW!!! I love that!

"Right to birth," not "right to life."

Damn, that's good. And, as with most of the things we are discussing here unlike the alternate reality created by the wingnuts, it is THE TRUTH.

:)

Thank you!

[ShortnFiery]

19. The right wingers are literally "frothing at the mouth" because just calling us "lefties" is ...

not working *the magic* that it did in past campaigning.

People are actually HURTING financially and are not in the mood to banter about "cultural issues."

You get perks from me for even tolerating a conversation with a fundie. :thumbsup: Albeit my entire extended family are right wing, they decidedly lean on the libertarian secular side. That is, you can do all the dope or have as many abortions as you wish, BUT my tax payer money ain't gonna pay for it. Secular right wingers can be just as amorally disgusting ... but in different ways. :shrug:

[AngryOldDem]

20. I would also ask her:

What are YOU doing to advance the pro-life cause?

Are you working to find safe, suitable homes for homeless families?
Are you volunteering your time at shelters where families stay, helping out with the kids, tutoring them, etc.?
Are you making any effort to get the word out about adoption and foster parenting?

Or are you just mouthing the same old tired bullshit while sitting on your ass doing nothing?

I am so tired of reading the comments of people who are so pro-McCain/Palin because of where they stand on the abortion issue. In my opinion, abortion constitutes about 0.0000001% of the issues that this nation is facing, as our society and republic totter at the edge of collapse. But mainly, I am angry because everyday I work with children who are falling through the cracks, and yet I have not SEEN one SHRED of evidence that "pro-life" people give a flying damn about these kids.

I have become pro-choice in my views after many years of being "pro-life" -- my opinions gradually shifted to the middle, and then to the other side when I saw constantly the hypocrisy of those who say they are "pro-life," yet do NOTHING to advance that view in practical, meaningful ways. I also think that those who are in a crisis pregnancy have the right to decide what is best for THEM in THEIR particular situation.

Christ. Don't get me started. I already have a headache without having to think about all these sanctimonious assholes and their terminally ignorant views who are driving this election on the right.

[OneGrassRoot]

23. I fervently believe it comes down to racism....

these "right-wing fundies" are, by and large, racists and bigots.

As them if their child was raped by a black man or an Hispanic man, then what?

They can stomach the idea of incest better than that scenario.


I agree. The hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING!!! The lies and hypocrisy are astounding with this election.

[Tutankhamun]

24. I'm going to tell fundies that if we stop all abortions

Jesus will never get mad enough to return. Outlawing abortion will prevent armageddon. Why would you want to keep Jesus away?

[lamp_shade]

25. YOU MUST SEE THIS!! A DU'er posted it a few days ago. It shows

the reaction from a pack of anti-choice protesters re: how to punish a woman who has an abortion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo

[Danger Mouse]

26. ...wow...

:wow:

[Starry Messenger]

28. good video!

It's interesting to watch their faces...thinking *almost* happens, and then poof! "I'm here cause god's called me here."

MPK

[AtomicKitten]

27. The ironic thing about their screeches of "life!" is that many do have abortions, on the sly.

They are complete and utter hypocrites when it comes to trying to follow their argument for "life!" to a logical conclusion. That's why your conversation ended in a flare of anger; they've got nothing.

[Starry Messenger]

29. I found a link to an article about that.

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion". Kind of a big text block but good reading nonetheless.

MPK

edit: typo

[AtomicKitten]

31. They seek to restrict women, not empower them.

The symbiosis of that with Rove style politics and Cheney style governing makes this ticket very, very dangerous for America.

Thanks for the link. It spells out their epic hypocrisy succinctly.

[Tutankhamun]

30. Those giant bloody dead baby photos they carried looked a lot like the Drudge fakes.

Drudge posted gruesome photos of dead, mangled babies that weren't aborted foetuses, attempting to fool people into believing the hideous display was a gallery of abortion victims. Various anti-choice groups immediately followed suit, some no doubt unaware that the "abortion" photos were a fraud.

The photos in that video looked suspiciously similar to the infamous Drudge hoax.