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Is the "Bridge to Nowhere" a Trap for Dems and Media?

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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:09 PM
Original message
Is the "Bridge to Nowhere" a Trap for Dems and Media?
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 03:13 PM by kennetha
Palin keeps repeating her line that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the bridge to nowhere. And some in the media and many in the blogosphere keep expressing incredulity that she would continue to express what has been thoroughly debunked as a flat-out lie.

So that raises the question, if the "lie" has been "debunked" what is Palin doing so brazenly repeating it?

The obvious answer is that she doesn't buy into the media and blog created meme that the story has been debunked as a lie. But there's obviously got to be more to it than that. That's because if she keeps on saying what keeps getting called a lie, then when she finally does face the press and finally does meet up with Biden in the VP debate, she will OBVIOUSLY be called on it and asked about it. Since that is obvious, it seems safe to infer that she's entirely prepared to be called on it and asked about it. Indeed, she must WANT to be called on it and asked about it. It's like she's begging the dems and the media to keep calling her a liar.

Now why would she want that? Why would she keep provoking the media, the bloggers, et al that way?

My guess is that she must BELIEVE, whether rightly or wrongly, that she has the better of the story. .

But how could she believe that unless she's deluded? (typical blogger reaction right now would be to conclude -- yep, she's deluded.)

But the devil is in the detail. Think about it. Sometimes the media and the blogosphere spin this as Palin mendaciously claiming to be and to always have been "against" earmarks in general and the bridge in particular. And then the charge against her is that this is just a complete fabrication. After all, she sought many earmarks as mayor and even hired a lobbyist to get more. And said that she would not stand in the way of the bridge during her campaign for governor. And this is supposed to show that she is a flat out liar. I even heard Steve Roberts, I think it was, ask some McCain spokesperson on CNN something like "how can Governor Palin claim to have always been against the bridge, when she campaigned in support of it?"

But, of course, the Republicans aren't that stupid. They aren't stupid enough to lie THAT baldly. Palin has never said that she never ever sought an earmark or that she always opposed the bridge from the beginning. What she actually said during the campaign was something about not standing in the way of a project that the voters wanted and the congressional delegation had fought hard for. Or something like that.

But if that's what she said, then we haven't yet found the bald-faced lie in her claim to have said thanks but no thanks to the bridge. So if that keeps being the spin, then when she is finally confronted with her supposed "lie" she will knock this thing out of the park. It will give her a chance to explain her side of this tale. And I suspect she will be able to tell the tale in a way that makes her look strong. She will be able to represent herself as having refused to go along, once she got elected, what she came to see as a Congressional pig in a poke. And she will be able to say that she rejected it despite the popularity of the bridge with her own voters and despite the work of her own Congressional delegation to get it done. She will look like a prudent administrator, a wise guardian of her states fiscal well-being. We will look look silly, small, desperate and grasping at straws.

Some have suggested we should go after her for inconsistency -- you know, for being for it before she was against it. But that's silly too. Her response will again be that she changed her mind in the "right" direction, once she got a look at things. She will be able to say that it would have irresponsible to do otherwise.

Well, perhaps we should go after her for "keeping the money" and using it for other priorities once the bridge was finally killed.

But again, who WOULDN"T want their governor to use federally allocated highway funds (I think they were) for genuine state priorities?

How could we possibly paint that as a bad thing? Are states never ever supposed to feed at the federal trough? Is a governor never ever supposed to use targeted federal funds for urgent state priorities? Is that our argument against her? Again, once she gets her chance to spin this in the light most favorable to her, we will have NO COMEBACK. We will look petty, small, silly, grasping at straws and out of touch with how real executives make real decisions.

Maybe the only real issue is that she exaggerated her role in the killing of the bridge. Made herself look like the lone maverick who single-handedly took the bridge down.

Maybe that is true. But that seems hardly an indictment worth of moving a single vote. And again, it gives her a chance to explain her role. And we're in no position, really, to contest that role.

Bottom line, this whole thing about the bridge should be dropped. The fact that Palin and McCain show not an ounce of fear about repeating what we keep calling a lie, is either a testament to their "balls" or a testament to our folly. I'd put my money on the folly, to tell you the truth.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are you on crack?
Are we supposed to be that stupid?
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. very astute thoughtful questions
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Well, it was hard coming up with my questions considering that your
question as posed in the op is as transparent as cellophane.

It isn't like we're not familiar with your posting history, which would tend to indicate that you really do think we're that stupid. :eyes:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Seriously.
Do they know what "google" means?

MPK
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I wouldn't at all mind if you did me the favor of ignoring me
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
90. done
and done...
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
40. Your horse lost the race. Time to get on board.
I thought you were over the primaries already? We've had this discussion before.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. huh??
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. Should we stop questioning McCain on the Iraq War since he keeps brazenly bringing it up?
Your assertion is absurd. Sorry for being blunt, but sometimes that works the best way
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Huh??
What's the parallel?
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. Seek help from one of the many other posters who replied to your thread
I'm not getting paid enough to wallow through this.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Fine by me
You are free to disagree, free to dismiss, free to accuse me of whatever you want to accuse me of, free to ignore my arguments, etc. I really don't hold considered disagreement against anybody.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's so much simpler than all that. They're just "creating a new reality,"
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 03:13 PM by stopbush
a page out of the Rove textbook.

Up is down, black is white, lies are facts...and the reality-based community wastes their time trying to explain it all, while the new reality types move on to their newest new reality.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. They haven't shown a lot of "fear" about repeating any lie.
You've got to call them on this, and all the other lies. It actually fits in pretty well with the forgotten narrative that the Republican party does nothing but lie.
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah play nice and let the repigs roll over us
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 03:14 PM by joefree1
No thanks. Take em down over the "Bridge to no where", Troopergate, wacko religion, ...


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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I'm not talking about playing nice.
I'm talking about playing smart and not playing into their hands.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Your bottom line is just wrong, i hope that helps.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. That, as they say in my business, is an empirical question.
So we will see eventually as this plays out.
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CatsDogsBabies Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why is everything a trap?
It is only a trap if you let them set the context in which the discussion takes place. They look confident because they are not always second - guessing themselves.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I don't think everything is a trap.
I just think that this may be a trap. They obviously are not afraid of a debate about this. Again that could just be a ballsy attempt to create a new reality as someone below suggests. Or it could be that we're being foolish because we are off balance. I tend to believe the latter not the former.
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CatsDogsBabies Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. When I typed the question, I wasn't referring to you specifically,
just a tendency I see sometimes for people to assume a defensive position when speculating about the McCain campaign. McCain's twisting of Obama's words, trying to caste doubt, or any other stirring up distractions is not going to lead me to believe anything different from what is patently obvious: Obama/Biden are a winning ticket, McCain/Palin are a losing ticket. Period.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Classic attempt at rewriting history
Make them accountable for their lies and bring them down!
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. so you go with
the Republicans are being completely ballsy here rather than we're blinded by folly.

I hope you're right, but I fear you are wrong.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. John McSame slams Palin's Bridge - WITH VIDEO!
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. I linked that in a thread of mine, too. it's a killer. I asked the question:
do they know about this at Obama HQ?

they must

if so, are they holding back?


if so, why?

it's time to paint the picture, folks, before it's too late

am I wrong?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Thank you!
Where is this thread so I can rec it and kick it?

This video needs to be in an Obama ad.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. here you go, my dear
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 03:58 PM by Gabi Hayes
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Does the term 'a matter of public record' ring a bell?
Every aspect of this story - the timeline of her support and withdrawal of it, who said what, when - is a matter of public record that was out there long before Palin was tapped to be McCain's spokesmodel.

What she's saying now directly contradicts what she said then. She's lying now. Full stop.

Unless she's got a bag of magic pixie dust that can change history, there is nothing that will alter the facts of the story, or the order in which they occurred.

If you have any proof at all that the narrative on this story is wrong or inaccurate, produce it. Otherwise I'll conclude that you're talking out of your ass.

- as
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. nice talking to you too.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Just as I thought.
You got nothin'.

- as
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Perhaps she DOES believe she did the right thing...
Better to accuse and have HER defend her position than the reverse...
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well maybe
If her defense makes her look bad and/or weak and we retain the upper hand, then I agree,

If her defense makes us look desperate and her strong, then I disagree.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. See response #8
Johnny McSame himself slams Palin's porky bridge. Looks to me like it's the repubs that got caught in the trap.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. She kept the money after saying Thanks first...then No Thanks when it was shut down in appropriation
Bottom line, she is not a reformer and she is repeating this lie everyday in front of the Public. I could swear these people take an Oath of Office to tell the truth and uphold the laws of our nation. GOP'ers think they are above the law, and McPalin proves this yet again.
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abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
74. Even the "taking on big oil" has a bit of a pork flavor to me.
She rerouted the natural gas pipeline through AK instead of Canada.

As I understand it. This was her big "stand up to big oil" moment.

I'm sure none of her friends directly benefited.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #74
99. Oh, I am sure of that too.
:eyes:
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. What are you, crazy?
Obama will never get away with that kind of explanation... oh wait, you're talking about a Republican? Yeah, she's gonna get away with it.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. Everything is a rovian trap! That's the trap! Or maybe that's the trap.
Then again the trap could be thinking that everything is a trap is the trap is the trap is the trap.

Best we do nothing. Oh wait, that's the trap!

I'll shut my trap now.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. LOL!
I have the feeling that even after he passes on to his final reward (*cough*NINTH CIRCLE OF HELL*cough*), there will still be people in political races 100 years from now who will be swearing that The Ghost Of Karl Rove is moving all of the chess pieces.

Pretty goofy, if you ask me.

- as
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. Just a guess here...
She's spent so much time saying that the media hates her, attack her constantly, etc. that she thinks refutations of her record will be taken by Palinistas and kool-aid drinkers as yet another attack on her. Remember, a lot of idiots vote on feelings, not knowledge or facts. It's the game of "Ignore me and I win. Attack me and I win. Agree with me and I win." but I don't think it'll work for her.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. That's a plausible interpretation
I'm not 100% sure if it's right. But the campaign MUST have some polls that support their continuing to say what we keep calling a lie. I'd be astounded if they didn't.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. The Truth shall set you free
keep banging them. Let Rove do what he does but we cannot get caught up in trying to tip toe around trying to avoid his tripwires.

His crap works only because he is allowed to do it.

Hit him in his mouth all day and all night, every single day.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. Moderates don't believe much from the liberal blogosphere.


I'm not sure I do either. The jet on ebay, "firing" the chef, and Palin's eventual lack of support of the bridge were not really lies.

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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. Check out this from Factcheck.org supposedly debunking Palin's claims to have killed the Bridge
But the bridge was nearly dead already – Congress had removed the earmark, giving the requested money to the state but not marking it for any specific use. Palin unplugged its life support, declaring in 2007 that the funds would not be used for the Gravina bridge.
...

Palin also answered "yes" to an Anchorage Daily News poll question about whether she would continue to support state funding for the Gravina Island bridge if elected governor. "The window is now," she wrote, "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist." It was only after she won the governorship that Palin shifted her position. And even then, it’s inaccurate to say that she “told the Congress ‘thanks, but no thanks.’” Palin accepted non-earmarked money from Congress that could have been used for the bridge if she so desired. That she opted to use it for other state transportation purposes doesn’t qualify as standing up to Congress.


And think a little harder about this, please fellow dems. Notice that Congress did not actually "kill" the bridge. It just 'removed earmark' status from the money. Congress gave the state the dough, but did not require it ot be used for a specific purpose. The bridge still COULD have been built. But it WASN"T built.

Why not -- solely because of the decision of Governor Palin. The Congress didn't say "don't build that bridge." The Congress said, you can build that bridge or you can do something else with that money. Palin decided to do something else.

So again, where is the lie? And why would we keep harping on this?????

Let's move on to more fertile ground.

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. She kept the money
And she was for the bridge before she was against the bridge. That's all people really want to know...

It's a lie of omission.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. You mean
She kept federal highway funds and used them for infrastructure projects and changed her mind about a financially unfeasible project.

Therefore, vote for us and against them?

Glaring non-sequitur. If that's what we trot out for a political argument against our opponents, we're going to lose. That's my only point. There is absolutely no there, there on this one. And to keep harping on it is a sign of something not good.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
36. Over reaching is always their downfall. Karl Rove thinks
he is invincible. He's not. This is a bridge too far.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I think there is much, much more fertile ground than this.
I think the obsession with this is stupid and shallow on our part. We're so flummoxed that we're looking for a quick kill. But this isn't it.


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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. I think you're right .
But it is a start. It's the drip drip drip that's going to kill them.

I was just making the point that the reason they don't even care anymore that everyone knows they are lying is that Rove is playing a game to see just how much he can get away with. This is all a game to him and he needs to increase the challenge to himself to continue to get the thrill. It is a form of addiction for him and half of America are his co-dependents.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
38. If it's a lie and she keeps repeating it, she's confident that so many people
have already heard it that they won't listen to the truth.

But it's still a lie--and I think we should continue to call her out on it.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I'm afraid I don't see the lie and I don't see what advantage we're gaining from this.
But maybe I'm just missing something.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. DONT TUTCH THE BUT! Everything's a TRAP! Look out!
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. No not everything is a trap
but some things are winners and others are losers. This looks like a loser to me.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. I'm glad you're not Obama's campaign strategist
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. He'd be ahead if I were
Do you know that I predicted almost down to the word what would happen at the Republican Convention.

And I laid out weeks ago what Obama needs to do to win this thing -- and he's sort of slowly taken on what I recommended he do.

He should pay me.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. What are the 5 most important battleground states in your opinion
for the Obama campaign, in order. I'll wait while you google a US map. :rofl:
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. so clever
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. Just wanted your "expert" take since you claim to know how to win elections
Reminds me of how McCain claims to know how to catch bin Laden but then says that he can't tell anybody because it would tip him off. :crazy:
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. Here's my post on what Obama must do to win and my post on the RNC
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. If someone made a post about Martians invading their home
and then pointed me to two of their other "insightful" threads, I don't think I would click on them. I've had my fill of stupidity for one night, thank you. :rofl:
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. Would you call me stupid to my face?
Just asking.

What is it about the internet that decreases basic civility, even among people who are on the same side of a fight?
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. You obviously don't remember me, but
we had a lengthy conversation just a couple weeks ago about why you were a bitter Hillary supporter having trouble getting excited about voting for Obama. I see that nothing has changed since then, so I've given up hope on you.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. Also, your original post was stupid, not you
just to clarify.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
45. I'm glad you're not running Obama's campaign...
That's the dumbest post I've read in ages. At this point, she's pretty much stuck with her lie -- having repeated it a dozen times, she can't come back with some heretofor unknown nuance to her position.

They told a whopper, assuming that the media would be cooperative and repeat the lie.

They figured wrong.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Stuck with the lie?
What lie, exactly?

If I were running Obama's campaign, by the way, he'd be way, way ahead. We've got 80% of the country saying we're headed in the wrong direction. And we've still got our candidate either barely behind or barely ahead.

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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Delusional much?
:eyes:
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Feel free to ignore me, okay?
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
66. It's hopeless
I got into a long back-and-forth with this poster a couple weeks ago and a quote from Happy Gilmore sums up the conversation:

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
48. It's not that complicated. The Bridge Lie is part of the PR package for a different audience.
They probably won't read about how she supported it and then changed when it became unpopular and the money was called back but by then she'd already allocated it elsewhere. So the money was taken but mostly used on other stuff. Read more of the background. Those are the technicalities we know she is using when making the statements. Blatantly misleading but technically stretchable to some extent.

But the lie reached tens of thousands of people. And TV coverage broadens that further. Network news is generous with clips of Palin's campaign stops with Gramps. And reporters who already corrected the Bridge lie once will let the line stand in the future. So the lie can have legs.

Some people think that if she keeps telling it, even after it's been debunked, well, she's lovable Sitcom Sarah-- she wouldn't keep saying it if it weren't true.

In general this year, the RNC seems to be counting hits with the lies they want to tell. This lie can reach X number of people, and float for X number of hours. The correction can be slipped in for propriety ten hours later and will reach far less people. So this lie was worth it.

So her lie is no big deal in the RNC playbook. Just a calculated risk. Gotta reinflate the Maverick brand. What are a few whoppers in the service of that grand effort?
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
49. thank god the thread delete option is back. WTF is this POS doing getting
all the responses?

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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. Stupid threads deserve to be vilified
I think that people are weighing in to let her know what they think.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. you mean let "him" know what they think
I'm not really very much impressed or bothered by childish taunts by a bunch of -- well, I really hate to say what I really think about some here because it will just lead to flame war and I want no parts of that.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Yeah, great job avoiding a flame war with this positive, uplifting thread
:rofl:
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. jeepers! You can't even recognize objective analysis when you see it.
I'm not trying to be a downer. You can't just stick your head in the sand and keep doing silly things that will net you nothing.

That's like saying it's a downer to coach my baseball players not to swing at pitches way outside the strike zone.

We're swinging at balls, here, not strikes, especially not big fat strikes in our wheelhouse.

That's my honest to god, considered, thought-out opinion.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. Have you even found 1 person to agree with you so far?
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Numbers don't matter
elections may decided by votes, but truth isn't. There's a lot of enforced and shallow group think on DU and too often an absence of critical analysis. So I don't really care that people who are into group think and who can't think critically mostly answer with silly snarky thoughtless shallow comments. It doesn't bother me at all. It kind of amuses me.

Sometimes it does depress me that our side -- which I consider the side of the angels in almost all things -- displays about the intellectual sophistication and subtlety of the Freepers -- who for the most part seem to have bricks for brains.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
62. OMG. You are right. The whole thing
The bridge, the money, in fact the whole English language are one big trap planned for the Obama Campaign. He ought not ever say anything again, or he is doomed. DOOMED!!11!!
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Jeepers!
fine way to dismiss a thoughtful argument.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #64
93. Wowsers
I didn't find it thoughtful, I found it to be more in the mold of paranoid and pessimistic.

What topics would you say are available for us to pierce the fantasy bubble around the McP camp?
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Gee, let's see
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 09:48 PM by kennetha
Healthcare, immigration, global warming, the green economy, taxation, foreign policy -- you know making the US a citizen of the world again in good standing, rather than a rogue nation of cowboys -- education. And on and on. We have a huge issues advantage. 82% of the country thinks we're heading in the wrong direction.

This shouldn't be close. It's not their brilliance that is making it close, I submit, but our lack of tactical and strategic brilliance at this point.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. I submit that it is neither, directly
If you find a way to make issues dead center, let us know. Because I hear Obama talking about them. But I don't see that taking the forefront of what people are hearing.

I would love to move the battle to that arena. But until then we have to fight or die where we are.

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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. She was on record in the debate supporting it
Unless the debate video was a hoax (it wasn't,) I don't see how she can devise that strategy. I think it's just a case of "if you repeat a lie often enough.."
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Don't forget the t-shirt she held up as well as quotes from her on the campaign trail
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 07:57 PM by endthewar
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
73. yea, just like saddam hussein hit us on 911 was a trap? naw, it's a LIE
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
76. Yes. Everything is a fucking trap for Dems. Christ - what fucking worthless wusses some DUers are.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I'm not a wuss
I just believe in fighting battles that can be won and not picking fights that can't be.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #77
82. Watch out! DU is a trap for Dems!!!! OHNOESSS!!!!!
:rofl:
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
79. You must've missed Keith Olbermann playing VIDEO of her giving the go-ahead to the bridge. n/t
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Nah, the poster is just living in his own little world
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. I'm afraid Olberman lost me during the primaries
Couldn't stand the way he and Mathews went after my girl. I've never given him a second chance. Maybe he wouldn't drive me so crazy now that the primaries are over.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Just saying...the proof is out there. It directly contradicts what Palin says on the stump. n/t
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Yep
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 08:20 PM by mvd
I think she's repeating the lie because she thinks it will be so stuck in people's minds that people will see it as more picking on her from Democrats - therefore minimizing the impact and being able to give some "I learned my lesson" excuse in the debate. It won't work.
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budkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
80. IT'S A TRAP!
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
89. Look, they LIE ALL THE TIME
and they hit and run, they slander, they twist, they distort.

Like this stupid ass lip stick on a pig thing, they had to keep pushing and trying to set traps to demand apologies and then cry when no one goes along with it.

So, they should be hit on ALL their lies and distortions. Especially since you are to "above the fray" to understand Palin is actually basing her run on these bits of let's say "misinformation".

If she is basing her credibility on "saying thanks but no thanks to that bridge to nowhere", "firing the chef", "being a maverick" and whatever other vapid nonsense, then if those claims are all bullshit then she has undercutting her own credibility.

Sure, none of it's important but it's all she's running on and if you have to twist and frame small petty bullshit like this then it's an utter disgrace and yes beat the snot out of her on it.

kennetha, sorry but I get the impression moderate is defined by reluctance to believe that when a Republican's mouth is moving, that it's not always a lie.

It's a lie. She did not say thanks but no thanks, she kept the money. That's not thanks but no thanks but a story that is told with the exclusive purpose of creating a myths or a legend.

She could have said and I took that money for REAL infrastructure needs for the people of Alaska", what's wrong with that? Nothing, but it's not Paul Bunyon enought to create a legend.

They must be accountable for their lies and brought down.

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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. I'm not a moderate. I'm way, way to the left. And I'm not afraid of a fight.
I just recognize when we've got the better of the argument and when we don't.

Palin never said that she opposed the bridge from the beginning. She never denied taking Federal funds and using it for Alaska's infrastructure.

Her line, "thanks but no thanks" is perhaps misleading in one way and completely honest an accurate in another. What may be a misleading implication is that somehow she turned down federal money.

But what Congress did with the funds for the bridge was remove the "earmark' status attached to them. That didn't kill the bridge. It freed Alaska to do with the money what they wanted -- as long as they spent it on transportation infrastructure. That meant they were free to build a bridge or free to build something else. It certainly didn't --as an NPR report incorrectly said -- "prohibit" the bridge from being built.

The decision not to build the bridge, in the end, was Palin's and Palin's alone. Perhaps the false implication is that she turned the money down. She didn't. But ask you self what state and what governor would turn down federal highway funds?

Is that the basis of our attack on Palin that she wouldn't build a bridge with some non earmarked money, but would build something else. Therefore, she's a liar and a hypocrite?


Look, we thought we had a gotcha. And if were a bona fide gotcha, I'd say keep pressing.

But we're doing ourselves no good with this. We're showing only that we're desperate to find something to stick. But believe me, this one won't stick. Palin will explain the details when pressed in her first interview -- as she certainly will be. And she will look calm, forceful, and assured in doing so.

And we will look really silly.

To go back to my favorite sport baseball. We think we've discovered our "out" pitch. But what we're really doing is serving her up a meatball right down the middle of the plate. It's not what we think. It's not a biting fastball with late movement, or a kneebuckling curveball. It's just a meatball.

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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. Nope. She only opposed it when it was politically advantageous
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 10:00 PM by mvd
She certainly didn't say, "I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks." She wanted to act quickly. She was embarrassed because federal funds had been diverted to other directions. She had no choice in the end. And unlike she is saying, she used all kinds of earmarks. It's certainly something we can use and has been effective so far with the media doing fact checking.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
92. There are no traps... they are shameless thieves !!!!!
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
97. McSame slams bridge to nowhere a second time
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
98. Oh I totally believe it's petty small potatoes (yes, Quayle gave an accepted spelling)
but it's not desperation at all. It's indignation!!!

They pick us to death with not only small, but often utterly false nonsense and it is allowed to fly.

Again, I wouldn't care if they didn't always and I mean ALWAYS lie and distort but this dumbass skank is actually running on this stuff.

My hope is to continue to relentlessly call them liars and never compromise or retreat on it. Not this but all of it and tie it right back to Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rice and friends.

They've been awfully loose with the facts, to say the least, over the past generation or two.

Now as far as Barack goes, he should just go back on message and wait for them to pull shenanigans again (and they will) and be prepared to go whack a mole on them.
Now us on the "Angry Left" and the 527's should steadily and ever increasingly tie these sadsack bastards to lies, being without honor, and overwhelmiong disdain for John and Jane Q. Public.

The only desperation I feel is over the urge to vomit when Republicans do what Republicans do-lie, distort, and distract.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
100. Ummm... It's probably because she has such a thin resume ....
.... that they have to lie to pad it.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
101. NOBODY MOVE!!! EVERYTHING'S A TRAP!!!
OH MY GOD!!!!! IT'S ALL A TRAP!!!!
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
102. Thank you, Admiral Ackbar...
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
103. totally agree...it's a trap
go ahead and flame me

but many on this board are naive and innocent

the rethugs are machiavellian

Rove surely had a hand in selecting palin

didn't rove pressure lieberman to withdraw his name for consideration?

everything the rethugs do is carefully orchestrated, yet simultaneously made to look authentic and spontaneous

just look at how palin got jabs in in today's interview...concering O and the troops in germany....

so, it's entirely plausible that this is another trap being set up by rethugs

they're NOT stupid either....

either there's more to the earmarks story, OR palin is such an accomplished performer/liar/con artist that she can skillfully simulate innocence and wriggle out of the accusations just enough to make herself look like a victim and/or innocent of the charges


the way this situation is evolving is very depressing

we're FIXATED on LIPSTICK and the BRIDGE

we're making undecideds hate us for seemingly repeatedly attacking rethugs over what appear to them to be trivial issues

and we're losing precious opportunities to DRIVE HOME The crucial issues that might really matter and sway

like taxes on health benefits

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