I can't believe I am saying this: HIllary is my top choice for VP

[bluestateguy]

My hard feelings from the primary have faded into memory (that tends to happen when your guy wins).

The polls currently show that Obama is winning among independents, winning about as many Republicans as he can expect to win (8-10%), but has not yet brought all Hillary voters on board. And yet he is still ahead by 2-5% in the polls. If he brings in most of the rest of the Hillary holdouts, then he is in good shape for the rest of this campaign.

This is not the same political environment as 2004. Back then the balance of power between the two parties was dead even. Now, Democrats have a party ID advantage of about 8% among the voters. Many independents and even a few Republicans have switched parties since 2004.

So if Obama can just unify the Democratic party voters, he has this thing in the bag. I think Hillary can help him do that. Yes there would be some issues to resolve as far as the two of them, as well as that other Clinton, but on the whole, Hillary on the ticket would be a plus.

[Zhade]

1. Funny, other polls show a majority of registered voters DON'T want her on his ticket.

That translates into her *hurting* his chances in the GE.

Of course, with Obama's slip of the tongue (referring to his VP as "he"), this might be moot now.

[MidwestTransplant]

4. When was the slip fo the tongue? I missed that.

[Kittycat]

5. Earlier today.

Check huffpo or dKos, somethere surely has posted about it... It's probably here somewhere as well.

[elocs]

8. check this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6669673

Obama Uses "He" Pronoun When Discussing His VP

RALEIGH, NC -- Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, is almost always diligent about saying "he or she" when discussing his potential running mate.

But at a lively town hall meeting in the Tarheel State Tuesday evening, the senator -- who is expected to announce his vice presidential pick at the end of this week -- used a decidedly male pronoun.

Asked what his plan is to utilize his vice president as President Bush utilized his, Obama said, "Let me tell you first what I won’t do. I won’t hand over my energy policy to my vice president, without knowing necessarily what he’s doing."

What HE'S doing. Could be a reference to Vice President Dick Cheney -- to whom Obama is clearly alluding.

But, as I said, Obama is usually pretty careful about saying "he or she." And surely it hasn't escaped anyone's noticed that despite references to dark horse candidates such as Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, or Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, all three finalists -- Sens. Evan Bayh of Indiana and Joe Biden of Delaware, Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine -- are male.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/obama-u...

[juajen]

10. I don't suppose it has occurred to you that a lot of Hillary supporters

do not want her to be O's VP? Believe me, there are a lot of us. So, those results might show Hillary supporters as well as Obama supporters who do not want her on the ticket. As to the "he" slip, don't you think that's suspicious. After all that eliminates sebelius, Mccaskill, and others. Perhaps that was a clue that it is a she. I believe a lot of people are pulling for Sebelius.

Just sayin'.

[jobycom]

20. And if he chose her anyway?

Wouldn't that force a choice of voting for or against Clinton for Clinton supporters?

[juajen]

26. Yeah, and it is being debated all over this country.

[Zhade]

30. "He" was a clue meaning "she"? Now THAT'S wishful thinking.

NT!

[jobycom]

19. He refered to Cheney as "he," not his own VP choice.

That was pretty clear from the context, even if the MSM manipulated the story. And their audience, apparently.

[flvegan]

2. Good for you.

[Drunken Irishman]

3. Clinton may unify party voters, but she'll cost him indies and Republicans.

If Obama loses in the indy vote, it won't matter how unified the party is, he loses.

[scheming daemons]

6. I can't believe you're saying it either....

...you're usually smarter than that.


The good news is.... Obama *IS* smarter than that.

[az chela]

13. I cant believe you said it either.It is a BAD IDEA

[Barack_America]

7. With all due respect, you forgot something...

Bill.

[JackORoses]

9. enough already

enough

[MercutioATC]

11. How many friggin' "Hillary holdouts" do you think there are???

Obama has the vast majority of Clinton primary voters. The ones he doesn't have were either supporting Clinton solely because they "wanted to see a woman as President" (which Obama loses) or they were "Limbaugh" crossovers (which Obama loses).

On the other hand, Clinton spent 14 months saying that McCain was more qualified than Obama. She's definitely old guard, which is in direct opposition to Obama's theme of change.

She's also a woman. A black man and a woman might be too much "change" for a lot of Indys and legitimate Republican crossover voters.


There is no shortage of arguments against her as VP. Why are you so scared of a bunch of middle-aged women who may or may not even vote Dem in November??

[jobycom]

17. It's not a "bunch of middle aged women" Obama has to worry about.

I know male Democrats in their 20s who might not vote for Obama if Clinton isn't the VP. More importantly, I've seen polls that suggest that there are two concerns for Obama. One, that there will be residual anger at him, and that a measurable percentage, maybe 6-8%, of Democrats aren't happy with him. You can phrase that as bitterness or sour grapes or whatever--though the polls show a lot of concerns with Obama himself in that group, and little to do with sour grapes--but however you phrase it, that's a lot of votes for a close election.

Second, there are a lot of voters who were motivated by Clinton to vote for the first time ever, or to vote Democrat for the first time ever. Her pull, for instance, amongst Hispanics in Texas was about like Obama's amongst African-Americans in the South, and according to some polls, that pull is still strong. Many of those new voters won't carry over to Obama, but they might carry over if Clinton is VP. No other candidate brings that. Not one. Bil Richardson has some pull amongst Hispanics, and might have even more if he actually began campaigning. But so far his numbers aren't even close to Clinton's.

Obama might win without her. He probably will--there's a lot of anger at Bush. But his best chance is with Clinton. She won't drive away his supporters, and she won't drive away anyone else he's likely to get in the first place, and she brings voters he otherwise has no shot at.

These sexist attitudes that it's all about uppity middle-aged women are wrong.

[MercutioATC]

21. You're still talking primary politics.

In grossly general numbers, 35% of the country votes Dem, 35% vote Republican....and 30% vote Indy.

No candidate can win unless the both keep a large percentage of their base and also appeal to both Indys and crossover voters from the other party.

Obama can hold the base. He also appeals to a lot of Indys and, especially with the right VP, could atract a serious number of Repub crossovers.

Clinton being on the ticket would give him a slight gain on the base, lose him a little with the Indys, and guarantee he got almost no crossover votes.

Hillary Clinton is unpopular with many Dems, but she's the poster child evil Dem that Indys and Repubs love to hate.


Obama will win without Clinton. He'll win BIG with the right VP.



He'll be very lucky to win with Clinton.

[jobycom]

25. No, I'm talking purely general election numbers.

The only people who hate Clinton are those who bought the Drudge smears in our own party--and they'll vote for Obama--and the same right-wingers who are currently believing all the VRWC emails floating around about Obama--and they won't vote for Obama. She's popular with independents. And she draws people who have never voted for Democrats before, as I said.

Obama can win without her, but it will be closer, and maybe he won't. What would you rather, Obama/Clinton, or McCain? Because I promise you, I know a few people, and I know that Obama's numbers are showing him just what I said. Clinton gives him the best chance. The question is only whether he'll take it or not.

[dkf]

34. McCain will draft male 20 somethings.

They are crazy if they don't vote Obama

[jobycom]

37. Those would be the same ones who were crazy not to vote Gore?

Relying on the sanity of voters is an epic fail.

[dkf]

40. Yeah, but we see what happened there.

McCain is beginning to wag his stick at Russia. At least George kept it to Iraq.

[Independent_Voice]

41. "She won't drive away his supporters"

She'll drive away *THIS* supporter, who didn't support Obama (or Clinton) in the primaries, but now is comfortable with Obama as the nominee.

[JackORoses]

44. those males in their 20s aren't Democrats

Democrats vote for the Democratic Nominee.

QED

[jobycom]

12. She's his best chance. Maybe not his only one, but his best.

And all his polls say it, even if the pop polls released for public consumption don't.

[az chela]

15. So we would have Bill and Hillary running everything

I DONT think so!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jobycom]

18. Why would you say that? If Obama is the president, he runs everything.

Clinton would be his VP, and Bill would be the guy Obama sends out of the country every chance he gets. Don't believe the MSM so much. There's no conflict there.

[dkf]

35. I don't trust those people.

Keep them as far away from Obama as possible.

[jobycom]

36. Clinton-bashers? I agree. The Clintons saved this nation after Reagan

And I'd love to see their wisdom and expertise help Obama out after Reagan Lite. Death to Clinton-bashers! Vive les Democrats!

[dkf]

39. No, I don't trust the Clintons.

Seems to me they were manipulating the press to finagle attention for the convention. I don't trust them to have Obama's best interests at heart.

[jobycom]

45. You got it backwards. The press was manipulating you

to try to split the party, because they want John McCain. Clinton bashing is Democrat-bashing. Vive les Democrats!

[Skwmom]

42. Wisdom as in starting a trade race with NO worker or environmental protections.

This has resulted in the loss of thousands (if not millions) of American Jobs, the importation of dangerous goods, the exploitation of workers world wide, the devastation of our environment.

The wisdom to push for media consolidation and the destruction of the fourth estate.

The wisdom to further deregulate the banks (AFTER the S&L debacle) which has led to the sub-prime crisis.

Frankly, our country can't take anymore of that type of wisdom.

[Metric System]

27. That's ridiculous. And frankly, an insult to Obama.

[Zhade]

31. ...except for the polls of registered voters showing they DON'T want her.

NT!

[jobycom]

33. Those are the pop polls I'm talking about.

If you get asked "Will you overcome your dislike of Obama and vote for him if he chooses Wesley Clark as VP?" how would you answer? You don't dislike Obama, so there is no dislike to overcome, but you will vote for Obama if Clark is the nominee... Either answer can be misconstrued because the questions aren't specific enough.

The polls that the campaigns use are more specific, and break down the numbers. If you ask registered voters if they want Clinton to be the VP, you may get a lot of "No"s for a lot of reason. Some don't like her, some don't plan to vote for Obama so they don't care who he picks, some may not want Clinton to take the position because they want her to run in 2012... The polls Obama looks at are more specific, because the questions he can ask are more specific. His polls break down who wouldn't vote for him no matter what, who wouldn't vote for him if Clinton is on the ticket, who would vote for him if she is on the ticket but wouldn't if she weren't, etc.

Those polls show that Clinton helps him, even the polls the MSM releases to keep the race close don't.

[JoshDem]

46. Right--Obama needs Hillary to win

Don't think Kaine or Bayh or even Biden add enough.

Hillary can stop the Obama slide.

[Colobo]

14. She'd make winning in Nov. easier.

[Barack_America]

23. And afterwards?

;)

[jobycom]

32. Afterwards

We'd have an Obama administration that could tap into the vast Clinton experience any time he felt the need, and we'd regain a tremendous amount of world prestige both by tying the new administration to a history that the world respected and by demonstrating that our nation has overcome its racist and sexist past to usher in a new era of American greatness based not, as in the last eight years, on the most base and ignorant instincts of the worst of us, but rather on the the ideals our Founders espoused in their most pure vision of a democratic, egalitarian world.

Wouldn't you like that, rather than the old politics of grudges and namecalling?

[monomach]

16. Make her VP, gain the last 5000 holdouts...Lose countless Indies.

It's worse than a wash.

[Barack_America]

24. That's a good point. Hillary as a pick could really hurt Obama...

In the Midwest, for instance.

[jobycom]

38. More MSM brainwashing

Fight it! We have to win this one. We can't let them do what they did in 2000, convincing too many Democrats that their best allies were their enemies.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Metric System]

28. Excuse me, that is just VILE. Take that shit over to Free Republic.

[thewiseguy]

29. She would unite the party. I think the rethugs are energized as it is to come out and vote

[JTFrog]

43. Her chances went down the drain of her kitchen sink.

As would his chances of winning if he was to go against his campaign message of having better judgment.