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So Senator Obama voted yes on FISA and Senator Clinton voted no?

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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:29 PM
Original message
So Senator Obama voted yes on FISA and Senator Clinton voted no?
My world has just been turned upside down. :(
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Welcome to DU!
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. And farewell. n/t
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Smart politics on her part
Give some of Obama's netroots supporters buyer's remorse. I applaud her for her vote but she would not have voted that way if she were the nominee.
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. agree. nm
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Go Hillary!
I knew she would vote the right way
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
165. I love Hillary.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Clinton is not running for anything. She doesn't matter now. If the situation was
reversed, I guaran-damn-tee you that Little Miss Obliterate Iran would have voted for it to prove her manliness, just like she did with the IWR.
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FredfromSpace Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Either way, we are all losers.
On this day of shame.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Somehow, we shall go on.
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FredfromSpace Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
129. I fear this plays into the Puke's hands more than a YEs would have
They are already using it in fact., you know, another "flip-flop" to prove that he is "just another politician"....

They may even be on to something, which is the real tragedy here....
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #129
131. Obama voted against telecom immunity, but refused to obstruct final passage
of the bill. A flip-flop would be if he suddenly came out and spoke in favor of telecom immunity.
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FredfromSpace Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. He also promised to support a filibuster.
Which is what the cloture vote was.

He broke that promise.

It will come back over and over to haunt him.

And it should.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #134
137. So, you hope he loses? Is that what you mean by "haunt him"?
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FredfromSpace Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #137
149. I still hope he wins
But not as enthusiastically as I would have...

He's just another lousy, half-assed Dem candidate now.

I always end up voting for them.

But boy am I sick of it.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. Calling him "lousy" and "half-assed"--Free Republic is that-a-way.
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FredfromSpace Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #150
154. Who Are the Brain Police?
nt
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #131
155. Which is voting for the war after voting against it.
I ain't voting for anyone that voted to kill the fourth amendment, not for any office. If they're willing tho sell out that one what other rights o mine are they willing to give up to keep the corporations inviolate?
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. But isn't she still angling to be on the ticket?
She's at least still on the top tier right?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
141. If that's the case
(angling to be on the ticket) then she's to be even more HIGHLY commended for her vote.

Either way, she did the right thing and she deserves our gratitude for that.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Is your post
supposed to be a compliment for Senator Obama? Are you saying if he wasn't the nominee he would have voted differently? I'll just keep reminding myself that the makeup of the supreme court is the reason I will vote come November.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Yep--he would have voted differently, if he didn't have the welfare of the entire Democratic party,
the nation, even the WORLD riding on the outcome of this election.
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. I still don't see how a "no" vote would have been so damning come November
Most people don't even know what FISA is. I don't get how we're supposed to believe that this would have been such a devastating issue for him if he had voted "no" come November.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Ad: "Barack Obama voted NO on spying on foreign terrorists--will he keep America safe?"
That's why. The more complex and arcane the issue, the easier it is for the GOP to dumb it down into a fear-factor weapon.
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #45
74. But McCain missed the vote completely
Wouldn't he have to explain why he missed it if it was that important to stopping TERRUH?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. You are counting on the media to inform people that McCain didn't bother?
Really?
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #81
104. I don't know? Skip the media completely and put it in a response ad?
Sorry, just feel kind of jaded and cynical today. I'm sure I'll snap out of it tomorrow.

However, I think Senator Clinton voted the way she did just to make this feel even worse. Yes, that's right. I think she voted for one way and one reason only: to spite Seen the light. :)
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. I think she voted against it because she has NO upcoming elections--
why the heck wouldn't she? There's no risk to taking the "pure" Dem stance for her right now.
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #108
175. So the only reason for dems to vote like dems is if they're up for re-election? Pathetic.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. McCain has missed more votes than Obama but the talking point is *only* about Obama's missed votes.
McCain has flip flopped much more than Obama, but the talking point is only about Obama the flip flopper.
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comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
153. you are correct
Obama would improve his chance at victory in November by standing up for what he purportedly believes in and demonstrating his willingness to fight for his beliefs instead of throwing them in the toilet. People like a fighter more than they like a compromiser.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. So after he gets the nomination
he's going to concede the election to mccain? I guess I'll divorce my wife for the good of our marriage.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Why are so many people bringing Teh Stoopid today?
Talk about hyperbole and melodrama. Holy Christ.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. I have no idea Wiener
please share with us why?? Ya got the old he is never wrong cult blood all boiled up today?? And thanks for throwing the stupid word around. What a great teammate you continue to be.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:39 PM
Original message
Guess what, WD?
Obama just became Little Lord Bush-Gets-A-Pass.

Just like "he" (Hillary) did with the IWR.

We need to get on the phones -- now.

My Democratic Senator, Bob Casey, is a big Obama promoter. So my phone may be tied up for a while.

--p!
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
43. No equivalence between allowing the FISA bill to pass and giving Bush
the permission to kill thousands upon thousands for no reason. None. FISA is not the Iraq War. FISA is actually a necessary law, although its components can be argued.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
113. Please tell me why
EVERYTHING needs to be turned around into a reason the bash Hillary and/or Bill Clinton!

I will say again what I have said so many times!!!! THE PRIMARIES ARE OVER!!!! It is time to focus on turning Senator Obama into President Obama! Bashing the Clintons is a distraction from that goal. TIME TO GET OVER IT!!!!!!
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
180. Eat your nice rhubarb
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 04:56 AM by JoFerret
But don't eat the leaves - they are poisonous.

Thank goodness we have someone tuff on terra.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. Obama is running for president. Senator Clinton is not.
Obama is about to have a barrage of ads attacking his patriotism thrown against him for the next 4 months.

It sucks, but that is the absolute, cold reality of it. It's politics.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Especially if there is another "terrorist" attack.
And it doesn't have to be on American soil...maybe a base in the Middle East.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Hmmm
I don't remember that being a valid excuse when Sen Clinton voted for IWR. Can someone please explain what has changed.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. FISA is going to kill thousands of people, including our soldiers, and cost
us trillions? Really? Those two votes are equivalent in consequence? REALLY?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
62. Oh - I get it
Politicians can practice politics SOMETIMES. It's a sliding scale. I didn't realize that. This is just a bill that can destroy the country from the inside - that's all.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #62
78. This bill won't destroy the country. Please. It's not perfect, it may have
a harmful impact in some ways, it may not be what we want, but it won't destroy the country. Hissyfit City today.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. You honestly don't see how this
bill could destroy lives here? How it can be abused - especially with this administration? Aint nothing hissy fit about it.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #84
93. I repeat: One foreign surveillance bill will not destroy the country.
Yes, there, I said it.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
100. ACLU plans to fight it anyway after Bush OKs it.
Check GD and LBN for this story.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Obama is the presumptive nominee, not a primary contender?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
60. I'm voting for Sen Obama regardless
I'm just surprised that people here have finally discovered that politicians practice politics. What was unforgivable is now politics. Such is life.
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Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Maybe she is smarter now.
A LOT of people were fooled by the Bush admin's lies about Iraq.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. True dat
I know republicans that have left the party because of what the chimp has done.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
83. Yeah, she is smarter
that's why her fellow Mark Penn is owed a bundle by her and he did so well for her and then there was that Columbia deal and now he is teaming up with Karen Hughes.

:crazy:

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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. It's irrelevant but voting for a bill you didn't read is quite different
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 02:41 PM by OhioBlues
especially now that 4000 Americans are dead. But like I said it's water under the bridge, Obama is the nominee so it doesn't matter unless he chooses her as his VP.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. Will people be more forgiving of the
vote in the GE? I'm not sure about that.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #55
82. I would. I don't know about others.
:shrug:
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
116. If it is irrelevant
why did you feel the need to say it?
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #116
162. For the same reason you thought to reply to me I suspect. nt
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
54. If Hillary was "running for President" in 2002
Then that was pretty fucking stupid of her? She campaigned for 6 years and still lost. :rofl:
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. Oh - so that's what matters
If you're running for President, you're allowed to pander. I hadn't realized that. I'll keep that in mind.
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #68
122. You're the one making that argument, not me.
I don't think Hillary was campaigning for President in 2002. I just think she was 100% compliant with the PNAC agenda. Or at least the slightly whitewashed PPI version. (her buddy Will Marshall signed both)
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #122
143. Not really
I think that vote was a nod to her constituency. And it's not like hers was the tie breaking vote. What I'm finding amusing is what was unforgivable during the primaries is glossed over in the GE. Like every season has it's time, so does, apparently, pandering.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:50 PM
Original message
But Clinton co-sponsored
the amendment to strip telcom immunity while she was running in February. I just can't see the FISA vote being a dealbreaker - it's not something most Americans know about, & if they do know, most Dems & many Independents don't like it.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
58. dupe. nt
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 02:50 PM by Marie26
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Someone's running for President in 2008
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 02:32 PM by BeyondGeography
and someone's playing for the left that rejected her this time around for 2012.

Surprise, surprise.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Right, Mr. 8 posts
Glad you were feeling fought for with that whole IWR thingy.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Obama voted against the war in Iraq, Hillary votef for it---when was she always fighting for us?!
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:37 PM
Original message
He did not vote against it. He spoke out against it.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
120. He was a legislator in Illinois
when that vote was taken....He was not a Senator.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well, this way Obama can have it both ways
He voted against the immunity part of the bill while preserving the overall "stop terror" message of the bill. I don't like it, but it might be smart.
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liberal1973 Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. I don't think so
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. What I mean is it could be smart framing of the message
Again, though, we should have had enough Dems for a filibuster of the overall bill - with or without Obama.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
61. Yeah, sort of like voting "present". nt
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. I think that's a misunderstanding of how the "present" vote works in Illinois.
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 02:53 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
With regard to that womens' rights bill.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Perhaps. But the larger point stands.
"Present" triangulates both positions & avoids making a stand. Like voting for Dodd's amendment & then voting for the FISA bill anyway.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
79. That strategy was proposed by the Illinois Planned Parenthood. They asked Obama to vote that way.
and he did.

I agree with your underlying premise, but being an Illinois citizen, that particular "present" talking point irks me.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #79
101. Hi, SCQ!
:hi:

It's a bad bill (my mom was even called during the height of the spying while doing GENEALOGY business overseas - they pretended to be the bank,) but some pandering happens in GEs, unfortunately. I would have taken the risk and voted the other way.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #101
140. Yeah, it is a bad bill
I would have voted the other way. But then again, I would probably never get elected anything in the first place.

:hi:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Clinton is running for 2012.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. She's always been Pro-War and commended McCain. If the shoe was on the other foot
I'm certain she woulded have voted for FISA and all the angry Obama people now would be angry at Clinton and drama would ensue.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. you and me both
:cry:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. I don't know why that surprises you. n/t
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. For one, she did not even vote on the Dodd amendment back in February
She was silent on the issue until now...I think she did this to subtly dig at Obama by trying to give some of his netroots supporters "buyer's remorse". I commend her for her vote but I am under no illusion that she would have voted the same way had she been the nominee.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. she hasn't been silent on the issue
from Januare -

"Today, I will vote against Republican efforts to shortchange the debate on the FISA Amendments Act, important legislation that would modernize our surveillance laws and give our nation's intelligence professionals the tools they need to fight terrorism and make our country more secure. Rather than allow the Senate the opportunity to consider important amendments to this vital legislation, Republicans are instead blocking meaningful debate on this bill by playing procedural games, choosing instead to score cheap political points at the expense of our Homeland Security.

This legislation deserves a thorough debate. Several provisions - including those which would have a profound impact on the civil liberties of Americans - need to be the subject of careful deliberation. For example, the bill under consideration gives telecommunication companies blanket retroactive immunity for their alleged cooperation in the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. I continue to believe that a grant of retroactive immunity is wrong, and I have cosponsored Senator Dodd's amendment to remove that provision from the bill. The Bush Administration has blatantly disregarded Americans' civil liberties over the past seven years, and I simply will not trust them to protect Americans' privacy rights. With the temporary Protect America Act set to expire on February 1st, I strongly believe that we need to pass balanced legislation that protects our civil liberties and the rule of law while giving our law enforcement and intelligence agencies the tools they need to protect our country."

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
46. You know,
only those with a stake in the primary wars would need to see it like that.

Without a stake, liking neither of them better than the other,

it's not a surprise.

Obama voted the way he said he would. Unfortunate, but no surprise.

Clinton voted the way Democrats SHOULD have voted. Sometimes she does that.

Again, no surprise.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
48. Just give her the credit due her and move on
It is what it is. Obama didn't have to sit in the U.S. Senate and vote againsgt the IWR in person, some say that takes away from giving him credit for having the right position at the time. Hillary doesn't get to run for President, so some say that takes away from giving her credit for having the right position at this time. Second guessing is like alternative history fiction, no one ever knows for sure. The record has to speak for itself.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
59. I said she deserves credit for her vote today
But I don't think she would have voted the same way if she were the nominee. And I am not entirely sure that Obama would have voted against the Iraq War, although I read that he was nervous about how giving the speech would impact his chances to win the Senate seat and he did it anyway, so that gives me some hope. But she deserves credit for her vote today, and I apologize if I did not make that clear.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
77. You're being fair about it
I think my comment probably should could have been better placed on this thresd. I realized that after I posted it. I was making more of a composite reaction to a few poats left than to yours in specific. Shoulda been clearer about that :)
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #59
126. And you are getting your
information from ....oh...maybe Kreskin the Magnificent and his crystal ball?
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #126
156. Who's Kreskin the Magnificent?
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #156
157. Oh, I guess I'm a little older than you are...
Johnny Carson of the Tonite Show - BEFORE Jay Leno - did a charachter calle Kreskin, the Magnificent, who was a fortune teller, reading peoples futures etc. with a crystal ball,
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Once again-a vote for political reasons-just like her vote for the IWR and K/L...
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 02:36 PM by jenmito
she's not running for president and now she can use this vote to further divide the party-"See? SHE voted AGAINST it. We should've nominated HER!" If she was the nominee, no way would she have voted against it.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. That's my thinking
It was the right vote and she should be commended for it, but I think you hit the nail on the head about why she voted against it. Plus, that way the media gets to have a field day talking about Democratic disunity yet again.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Yup...
Here we go again.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
49. Oh, Hillary's vote was for poltical reasons?
All part of her evil masterplan to destroy the party?

Of course, Obama voted only out of deep conviction and loyalty to his solemn pledge to defend and uphold the constitution.

alllrighteee then
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #49
71. Of course it was! And as suspected, they're now talking about it on MSNBC about how
she voted against it while he voted for it-on the very day they're having a joint fundraiser.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #71
90. Are you actually blaming Hillary for Obama's vote?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #90
99. I'm blaming her for causing more reason to keep our party divided.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #99
107. So she should have voted the
WRONG way just to make Sen Obama look better? That's your argument?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #107
114. She should've not voted at all. For the good of the party.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. Okay - I think I get it now
All the democratic politicians need to bow down, stop doing their JOBS, stop voting the right way for the country just to make Sen Obama not look bad - because he wants to be a politician.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. Not all of them-just Hillary-who's supposedly trying to unite her voters with his.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #121
139. I can't believe you mean this
That Senator Clinton (and I'm speaking as one of her constituents)should either not vote (not only what we're paying her to do but what we voted for her to do) just to make things easier for Sen Obama who only voted the way he did to make life easier for himself.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #139
144. She knew it would pass anyway. I'm one of her constituents, too, and I'm
sick of her divisive ways.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #144
145. So now voting the right was is
divisive? I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around your position. Seems like the height of hypocrisy to me.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #145
148. Why are you having trouble? She, like Obama, voted to strip immunity out of the bill...
she could've done what's best for the party, rather than what I feel is more political expediency, by voting with Obama giving the same explanation he gave. She's supposed to be bringing the party together. This ain't helping and her vote did nothing but give more ammo for her supporters who want reasons NOT to vote for Obama.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #145
158. Don't even try to understand.
The poster is obviously so consumed with hate that it will be impossible to make sense of it. Hate is in and of it self irrational.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #145
160. Tell her you're voting for Lee Mercer, Jr. and see what happens
Good times.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #99
172. Are you for real?????????
Obama is the one who was on the wrong side today. Take it out on him and stop projecting on Hillary.
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #99
176. Senator Clinton voted correctly. If it makes Obama look like an ass, whose fault is that?
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. And now we finally know that if Obama was in the Senate he
would have voted for the IWR. Words, just words.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
76. No we DON'T know that. He spoke out against it while he was in the IL Senate and was about to run
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 02:58 PM by jenmito
for the U.S. Senate. You sound just like a Repub.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
115. Yes and then he gave him self some wiggle room in 2004,
it's easier that way then you can change your emphasis depending on which message suits you. He showed today that for him the ends DO justify the means.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. No he didn't. He was protecting Kerry and Edwards, who both voted FOR it-and he was the keynote
speaker for them.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
128. You're seriously wrong, and walking on thin ice with that suggestion...
...because there is no comparison between the two pieces of legislation, and none between the conditions surrounding the votes.

Hillary wanted to look tough with IWR and K.L., it was superstupid and gave power to Bush just to look tough in advance of her future miserable failure to get the nomination.

FISA, on the other hand, is a compromise and this is a matter that president Obama will be able to address later.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #128
147. ...
:thumbsup:
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
105. What fucking nonsense
So you're saying Sen Obama's vote wasn't political? That he really believes the govt should be able to spy on us without a warrant? Why is it okay for Sen Obama to behave like a politician and not Sen Clinton? Why the blatent hypocrisy? And if you're so able to read minds, can you tell me what my boyfriend bought me for my birthday?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #105
112. No, I'm NOT saying his vote wasn't political. He's the nominee.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
127. And if she doesn't believe in it
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 03:43 PM by polmaven
she should have voted FOR it just to what..show the unity? GET OVER IT!
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
29. Obama had to vote "yes". The dems were complicit in crime.
Bush did not do all this by himself. He had plenty of enablers from the leadership of the Democratic party. They were too cowardly to do otherwise. They now find themselves also at risk in Bush's crimes. Obama is now the leader of the Democratic Party and is obliged to protect these craven "leaders". At least until he is elected. That's the way it is.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Oh yes, if the Democrats stood for the right position, it would have..
been a lot easier for Obama.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. get used to it...
If you thought Clinton was a "triangulator", you're in for a real surprise once Obama gets elected.

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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. She's no longer running for president

And if you don't think Senator Obama will make an awesome president, who the phuck are you voting for??
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Whe he becomes President, we will certainly be more vocal
I'm at least glad he didn't totally vote the wrong way today. The Democrats should have been united against the bill. That disappoints me more than Obama's final bill vote.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #52
98. Regardless of whether DU'ers agree or disagree..
... don't you think it's in poor taste to refer to a fello' DU'er as a thug?


Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum


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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #98
164. your post was not relevant to mine
and I'm sick of loyalty oaths from some you Obama supporters. If you want to know my position on the matter, you can do a search. If you can find a post where I've said I would not vote for the Democratic nominee, from here or any other site - feel free to post it.

Is that better? Are your fine tuned sensibilities appeased?

As for fellow DUers... the last six months have disabused me of any notion that this place is any longer a community. So no, I don't particularly care if some of you would think my opinions are in poor taste.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
38. That's right, Obama voted yes. That's what's important.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Vote for Obama anyway
We can always crack the whip later on.

--p!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
64. Good luck cracking that whip. :/
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cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
66. The whip has no effect it seems...nt
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
75. We don't have any other choice.
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cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
53. Sigh..... I miss Hillary nt
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
80. And that's why she voted against it-for that very reaction-to keep party DISunity.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. I don't think so. Voting *no* was the right vote, IMHO.
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cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #88
96. I agree... but I'm sure Barack thinks he did the right thing too
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #88
102. Yes, it was-for the wrong reasons IMHO.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
111. It was totally inconsistent with her previous voting record and totally consistent with Clintonian
attempts to stab Democrats in the back.
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #111
178. Perhaps you can link us to this previous position? I know you aren't just making it up.
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cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #80
92. No disunity... It won't change my vote... but you can't be happy with everything
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #92
106. It won't change YOUR vote, but it can give Hillary supporters another excuse NOT to vote for him
or to demonstrate at the convention, etc.
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cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. Did they need another excuse? I don't think so
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #109
124. No, but this IS another excuse.
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #80
95. Exactly. Political expediency, even i f it means .....
DISUNITY has always been their MO. They have both been the most politically poll driven and disingenuous politicians to ever come across the democrartic pike.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #80
132. Bullshit!
Is she supposed to get his permission before she votes?
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
174. Oh yeah, Obama casts the wrong vote, but it's Hillary's fault.
Unbelievable..........
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #80
177. Hasn't Hillary always said she'd vote against it? Obama is responsible for his own vote.
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romana Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #80
179. Unbelievable
This is really just...just unbelievable. Obama votes the wrong way, but somehow, in your twisted little mind, Clinton, who voted correctly, is wrong.

Can you...I'm virtually speechless here...can you, maybe, take a step back and, you know, actually READ what you're saying objectively?

No, I suppose not.

Unbelievable.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
173. Me too!!!!!!!!!
:cry:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
67. Mine has simply been confirmed.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. If I was running, I would have voted no
Maybe Obama is smarter, but I'm not the compromising type.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #73
110. I understand why he did it, and don't really dislike him for it.
For one thing, the bill isn't the pure surrender some around here think it is, but that's a different story.

I just mean that Obama won by claiming he wouldn't compromise and had good judgement and all of that, and a lot of people saw him as some purist and Clinton as a triangulating sell-out. Anyone who took the time to learn the facts and the history of both candidates knew the reverse was true. Obama goes where the wind blows, Clinton has been consistent for decades, though she does slant her arguments. In short, she's a leftist pretending to be a moderate, and he's a centrist who briefly pretended, or at least played up assumptions, that he was a leftist.

I'm not bothered by Obama's actions overly much--he's about like any other candidate I would vote for, at least as far as compromising goes. I'm frustrated by those who didn't get it when he was running, and who voted for him believing he was different.

No matter. He's the candidate, so he's my candidate. BushCo must be destroyed in all its incarnations.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
70. What does that mean? Obama was and still is the better candidate.
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 02:58 PM by ProSense
Hillary dodged the vote on Dodd's bill when she was campaigning.





edited typo.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
72. No surprise there.
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 03:01 PM by Phx_Dem
Hillary is the biggest panderer that ever lived. Of course she voted no, precisely I'm sure, because Obama was voting yes. She's not a Presidential nominee so she doesn't have to worry about being swiftboated as weak national security. If she were the nominee, there isn't an iota of doubt that she would have voted for it.




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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #72
87. She deserves credit for her vote today
Although I agree that it was a pander and that she would not have voted that way had she been the nominee. This was a smart move politically for her...try to create a little buyer's remorse among some of Obama's activist base and shore up some goodwill for 2012. But she voted the right way, and at the end of the day, a vote's a vote. So she deserves credit for that.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. That's how I see it
She voted the right way, especially under her circumstances.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
86. self-delete
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 03:01 PM by jenmito
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Well....David is wrong on this one
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #89
97. I know-which is why I deleted it.
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
91. this thread is kind of hilarious. I'm sure there are some lurking freepers who are laughing.
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 03:04 PM by ErinBerin84
I just turned on MSNBC.."Obama voted Yes, Clinton voted No!"

I turn to CNN....same headline.

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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #91
103. "sewer" was more the word I had in mind.
:banghead:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
119. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
elkston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #119
123. Make no mistake. A vote for Nader is a vote for McCain. n/t
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biglake Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #123
130. No- a vote for Nader-is a VOTE FOR NADER- no more elitist corporatists thanks
Obama could have said no on principle. I intend to stand to try for it this time.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #130
133. Alerted. n/t
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #119
125. If so, you can no longer be a member of the DU. Read the rules. n/t
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biglake Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #125
135. Your threat is perfect jenmito
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. It's not a threat. It's a fact:
"You may not post threats to vote third party, to vote McCain, to not vote, or to write-in a Democrat other than Barack Obama."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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biglake Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #136
146. May not post threats to vote 3rd party on DU? 1st time. I am sure Obama relies on that crap too.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #146
151. Enjoy your stay here-no matter how short it may be.
:hi:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #136
161. And Lee Mercer, Jr. -- I heard Skinner changed the rules just for Mercenaries
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #119
159. Nader? This should end well... n/t
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #159
163. Maybe it already HAS ended well.
:D
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #163
167. Yeesh! I go down to the gym for a jog and a carrot juice...
...I come back, and the mods sweep in like the furies themselves!

They are NOT playing around today. The disruptors are droppin' like zapped flies! Ouch!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. Ya got THAT right!
I'm SURE they had a little help. :D
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. Why mah dear (Best Tennessee Williams character voice)...
Ah have no i-deah whut-so-evah what you could mean bah that! That button off to the bottom lef' there? Why as far as ah'm concerned...that's for summonin' the but-lah for mo' mint juleps, an' nothin moah!

:)
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #169
170. ...
What a beautiful Southern accent you have there! :) Yes, that's the one!
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
138. Maybe she's learned that centrist voting didn't get her anywhere.
Hopefully, the same thing will dawn on Obama.
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
142. props from this Obama supporter for HRC!
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #142
152. Well, finally!
Although I do not fault Senator Obama for the way he voted...I think he did what he had to do..., I fail to see how this thread turned so quickly into a Hillary Bashfest! Man, it's like the last 4 weeks since June 11 never happened.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #142
166. Thank you.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
171. Go Hillary!!!!!!!!!!
Also kudos to Schummer and my senators: Lautenberg and Menendez!!!!!

You all rock!!!!!!!!

:headbang:
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