Should Obama play to his base or make it bigger?

[Drunken Irishman]

Poll question: Should Obama play to his base or make it bigger?

Simple question.

[ClassWarrior]

1. False dichotomy...

You make your base bigger BY playing to it.

The losing strategy is to move to the right, to assume with Republicans that American values are mainly conservative and that the Democratic party has to move away from its base and adopt conservative values. When you do that, you help activate conservative values in people’s brains (thus helping the other side), you offend your base (thus hurting yourself), and you give the impression that you are expressing no consistent set of values, which is true! Why should the American people trust somebody who does not have clear values, and who may be trying to deceive them about the values he and his party’s base hold?...

"No Center, No Centrists" -- George Lakoff

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/15/3174

NGU.

[Drunken Irishman]

3. For the sake of this, let's just say it isn't false.

I get what you're saying, well what Lakoff is saying and I agree pretty much. However, it's clear there are swing voters, people who will vote Democratic one year and then Republican the next. These voters are fickle and make up a huge number of the electorate. They often tip the scale for one cadidate in a close race. We saw them shift from the Democratic Party in the 1980s and shift back somewhat in the 90s, only to go right back to the Republican Party in 2000 and 2004.

[ClassWarrior]

5. I had the wrong quote. Check it again. You don't nab those voters by appearing insincere.

NGU.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. Ok, but I don't believe Obama is insincere.

I've always felt he was a more pragmatic type of politician.

When he speaks religiously, I find it completely genuine. And I think that's what makes his tactic different than past candidates. Kerry couldn't play to the religious vote because no one would have bought it. Yet you don't really hear people questioning the sincerity of Obama's religiousness -- well at least most, anyway.

[ClassWarrior]

9. But appearing to shift one's position looks insincere.

NGU.

[endarkenment]

15. He hasn't.

But the corporate media would love to get you to echo and amplify the meme that he has.

[ClassWarrior]

21. I know he hasn't. And I know they would. It's this thread that echoes that meme.

And, as I said originally, it's a false dichotomy.

NGU.

[damntexdem]

31. Hear, hear! And the you're drunk didn't quite fit the bill.

Though that's what I chose.

Obama still needs to excite the American people, including new voters. In recent weeks, he just hasn't been exciting. Sure, it's tough, now that the primaries are over. But he could still do it.

[endarkenment]

2. Drown their election fraud in a tsunami of electoral votes

[JuniperLea]

4. I think this is a dangerous game he's playing...

I think he had the world in his hands... had...

I am reminded of one of Aesop's fables...

A Dog, to whom the butcher had thrown a bone, was hurrying home with his prize as fast as he could go. As he crossed a narrow footbridge, he happened to look down and saw himself reflected in the quiet water as if in a mirror. But the greedy Dog thought he saw a real Dog carrying a bone much bigger than his own.

If he had stopped to think he would have known better. But instead of thinking, he dropped his bone and sprang at the Dog in the river, only to find himself swimming for dear life to reach the shore. At last he managed to scramble out, and as he stood sadly thinking about the good bone he had lost, he realized what a stupid Dog he had been.

It is very foolish to be greedy.

[Drunken Irishman]

7. We'll know in November if it was risky or not.

Right now we can speculate.

[JuniperLea]

10. Yup... hence the "I think" bit...

I hope most people are as stubborn as I am (bull-headed genes from my Irish ancestors, or so I'm told) ;) ... I'm hell bent on voting for Obama... no matter what kind of dumbass stunts he pulls between now and November... McCain is not an option.

[DJ13]

11. Agree

This year (more than at any time since JFK) the voters want a new direction.

By moving to the center Obama actually makes McCain more electable in this kind of environment because it eliminates much of the sharp differences between them that made him so popular over McCain/Bush in the first place.

[JuniperLea]

13. Ugh... you said it out loud...

My mind wouldn't let me go there... but, yeah. That is my fear too.

I think he should have left well enough alone.

[DJ13]

14. Sorry

My mind has a big mouth!

[JuniperLea]

23. LOL!

No worries... my mouth has a mind of its own!

:silly:

[sui generis]

6. Obama damn well needs to take nobody for granted.

If you put the tent stakes too far out, the middle of the tent will collapse. Law of physics. Realistically, the only people who believe someone can be attractive to both "liberal" and "conservative" interests is somebody who is a social conservative themselves.

[JuniperLea]

12. Yup!

Saggy tents suck.

Personally, I think he should have left well enough alone and left the pandering to the other side. I think he will lose more than he gains. I'm betting not everyone is as stubborn as I am.

McCain is not an option.

[Solon]

16. And change the party into an even more conservative party than it is now?

What would be the good accomplished in doing that?

[Drunken Irishman]

17. When all those Democrats bolted for the GOP in 80s, did it become more liberal?

I don't think so.

When they left the Democratic Party to vote for Ronald Reagan, Reagan didn't instantly become more liberal and he certainly didn't govern more liberal. If anything, the party continued to take on a more right-wing tilt, as prior to Reagan, the Republicans were actually seen as more moderate than the Democrats. But Reagan made that appeal and built the modern conservative GOP on the backs of moderate Democrats who bolted our party for theirs. It wasn't because Reagan ran to the right, no, Reagan appeared to be more moderate in 1980 than he eventually became. But it won him the White House and it built a strong party that has now held the White House 20 of the past 28 years. And what has the Democratic Party done in that span? They lost back-to-back elections by large margins, managed to get some of those Reagan Democrats back in the 90s with a moderate candidate and that positioned them to win in 2000 and 2004.

[Solon]

19. What's the point of winning if the results, more or less, are the same?

I'm not saying the Democratic and Republican parties are the same, right now the Democratic party is slightly Center-Right, and the Republicans far right, but if the Democratic party starts tilting even further rightward, well then, what's the point of electing them?

Right now the biggest motivator for voting for the Democrats is because they, generally, do less damage to the country than Republicans, but if that changes in the future, then what the hell have we accomplished?

[Drunken Irishman]

27. That's your opinion.

I think there is still a big difference between the two and I think we've seen it over the course of 16 years.

[loyalsister]

22. He ran on contradictory values

and still won them over with some of the other "values."
Obama is doing the same only different. Only better and pretty much the opposite.

The operating assumption that Obama and the rest of the party will be bent entirely in the other direction is almost something out of science fiction.
People need to pay attention to what he says and read what he has written to really understand what is going on here.

[bowens43]

18. Obama seems to be turning into just another politician.

I was hoping for more then that. Oh well, I guess expected too much.

[Fluffdaddy]

20. You can't win the POTUS without being a politician.

[JuniperLea]

24. That's old school thinking...

I was expecting "Change".

[Occam Bandage]

26. It's old-school thinking to say that Obama can only win the Presidency

by wearing pants. Yet there he goes, pandering to Big Pants and the right-wing pants machine. Why is he still wearing them? I was expecting "Change."

[JuniperLea]

30. Oh what bullshit

Why bother commenting if you are going to post drivel like that?

:eyes:

Never mind... I can see the drivel back-splash now... so predictable.

[Occam Bandage]

25. ERROR 22 RESULTS DO NOT CORRELATE WITH DU RESPONSE TO OBAMA'S ATTEMPTS TO DO SAME

[depakid]

28. Or, framed historically- should he pander to the right, dampen enthusaism for the campaign

and end up looking like just another politician who'll say anything to get elected.

[steven88]

29. He should keep his word

Right now he looks like just another lying politician.