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Wes Clark has nothing to apologize for

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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 10:53 PM
Original message
Wes Clark has nothing to apologize for
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 11:03 PM by Gman
Yeah, McCain was captured and spent some bad time in the Hanoi Hilton. Ok, fine. That does NOT make him automatically and unquestionably qualified to be president.

What no one wants anyone to say is that McCain was a lousy pilot. The guy sucked at flying. Not long after being commissioned, he crashed a plane into Corpus Christi Bay while in training at the naval air station there. Then, he crashed while taking out power lines "over the Iberian Peninsula". As if that wasn't enough, he later crashed again while flying a government plane back from attending an Army v Navy football game. It's all there at McCain's Wikipedia entry. (Except the McCain campaign has done a marvelous job of insuring there's no mention of the fact McCain was returning from a football game when he says he flamed out.)

Then, McCain is said to have been shot down over North Vietnam by ground fire. I'm no Navy pilot, but how low do you have to be to be shot down by ground fire? Shouldn't he have been higher than ground fire can be effective?

So was McCain a war hero or was he incompetently stupid? Or was he dangerously irresponsible?

Prior to being shot down over North Viet Nam, there was the famous USS Forrestal Fire which McCain played a part in. It appears that McCain, was being the hotdog, showboating juvenile when he when he "wet started" his A4E Skyhawk. You see, the starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk that McCain was in allowed fuel to pool inside the engine. If you wanted to phuck with the guy in the plane behind you, you could "wet-start" this plane and an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. Apparently, it was this cook off that launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the McCain, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany. (See this article) McCain was also the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred after the fire. See this article.

Now, the only thing official I can find is this cleaned up, typical military version of the Forrestal fire. From the link:
"Lt. Cmdr. Robert "Bo" Browning one of the pilots due for launch with many others, he was seated in the cockpit of his fueled and armed Skyhawk; the plane was spotted way aft, to port. Lt. Cmdr. John S. McCain III said later he heard a "whooshy" sound then a "low-order explosion" in front of him. Suddenly, two A-4s ahead of his plane were engulfed in flaming jet fuel — JP-5 — spewed from them. A bomb dropped to the deck and rolled about six feet and came to rest in a pool of burning fuel.


A "whooshy" sound? A "low-order explosion"? That's probably what it sounds like when you wet start an A4E Skyhawk.

Maybe you want to google "Manual of the Judge Advocate General Basic Final Investigative Report Concerning the Fire on Board the USS Forrestal", which is a 7,500 page report to find out more? Don't bother. It only has one link that's mostly irrelevant.

And his youth while in the Navy is not unlike Bush's. (Although I do give McCain credit for being active duty and not hiding out in the Guard, as if he had a choice with his dad and granddad.) While there are no known cocaine possession convictions in Houston, as was the case with Bush, he dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida" and it was said of him that "being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck."

Now I've nothing against exotic dancers and I'd love to have partied with someone that parties - train wreck - hardy just like I would have loved to have partied with W. There's got to be some great stories there. But would I want either one to be president? I don't think so.

Did I mention that MCCain graduated 894th out of 899 from the Naval Academy? That puts him in the good company of General George Armstrong Custer who graduated last from West Point.

So is McCain presidential material?
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. He didn't question his hero status- In fact, he said McCain was a hero to HIM.
What he questioned was this argument that he is more qualified as a commander in chief just because he was a shot down POW.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. True... therefore
I edited the OP a bit.
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. thanks, the rest I agree. I'm just really disappointed in what's happening to Clark right now. BS.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. He has NOTHING to apologize for, AT ALL. At least until the republi-CON dirtbags
start apologizing for the years of abuse they're guilty of - against OUR people. Like Max Cleland, John Kerry, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and more.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. TRUE THAT!
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am so glad General Clark said what he said
Of course Obama has to reiterate that McSame served our country honorably. Of course he has to take the diplomatic stance and give lip-service rejection to what Wes said.

It was a brilliant tag-team play. Now the infallibility of John McCain-War Hero, is a little less infallible.

Bravo, team Obama!
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I've yet to see much that shows McCain served "honorably"
But I also understand Obama has to play the game. The GOP has mastered "tag-team" politics. It would appear Democrats have learned well from the GOP.

Who says Rovian politics is a bad thing?
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. So am I
Because being shot down and taken prisoner might seem heroic to a chickenhawk, but heroic is not what happens to you. Heroic is how you respond to it.

Max Cleland is a hero, and what happened to him?
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Most def, specially with McCain traipsing out Swift-Boaters at his campaign events...
Clark just beat them to it. I understand Obama doesn't care much to rock the boat. But some of this stuff needs to be poked first, and let republicans trip over their own words and tactics for several news cycles.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. Here's how it works in wingnut land:
republican party veteran = OMFG! HERCULEAN HEROICS!!

Democratic Party veteran = unpatriotic, unearned medals, undeserving of respect (wearing of purple heart band-aids)

These hypocritical liars can go fuck themselves.
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