No more money from me to Obama

[Araxen]

after saying he is supporting the FISA bill. I feel really betrayed now and he will not see anymore donations from me. I will still vote for him, but if he pulls any more flip-flops like this I just won't vote. Supporting the FISA bill just reeks of the same old washington bullshit that has gone on far too long.

[ProSense]

1. Link? n/t

[havocmom]

3. I second that request for a link to that

[blondeatlast]

5. Tird. I mean, third. nt

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bjobotts]

75. "...no good comes from lending uncritical support to a political leader,

"...no good comes from lending uncritical support to a political leader, or cheering them on when they do bad and destructive things, or using twisted rationalizations to justify their full-scale assault on your core political values. The overriding lesson of the last seven years is that political figures, more than they need anything else, need checks and limits. That is just as important to keep in mind -- probably more so -- when you love or revere a political leader as it is when you detest one...." Glenn Greenwald

[bjobotts]

76. "...or cheering them on when they do bad and destructive things, " This pic.

"...this attitude that we should uncritically support Obama in everything he does and refrain from criticizing him is unhealthy in the extreme. No political leader merits uncritical devotion -- neither when they are running for office nor when they occupy it -- and there are few things more dangerous than announcing that you so deeply believe in the Core Goodness of a political leader, or that we face such extreme political crises that you trust and support whatever your Leader does, even when you don't understand it or think that it's wrong. That's precisely the warped authoritarian mindset that defined the Bush Movement and led to the insanity of the post-9/11 Era, and that uncritical reverence is no more attractive or healthy when it's shifted to a new Leader.
What Barack Obama did here was wrong and destructive. He's supporting a bill that is a full-scale assault on our Constitution and an endorsement of the premise that our laws can be broken by the political and corporate elite whenever the scary specter of The Terrorists can be invoked to justify it. What's more, as a Constitutional Law Professor, he knows full well what a radical perversion of our Constitution this bill is, and yet he's supporting it anyway. Anyone who sugarcoats or justifies that is doing a real disservice to their claimed political values and to the truth.
The excuse that we must sit by quietly and allow him to do these things with no opposition so that he can win is itself a corrupted and self-destructive mentality. That mindset has no end. Once he's elected, it will transform into: "It's vital that Obama keeps his majority in Congress so you have to keep quiet until after the 2010 midterms," after which it will be: "It's vital that Obama is re-elected so you have to keep quiet until after 2012," at which point the process will repeat itself from the first step. Quite plainly, those are excuses to justify mindless devotion, not genuine political strategies.


declaring that Obama is now Evil Incarnate, no better than John McCain, etc. etc. -- is no better. Obama is a politician running for political office, driven by all the standard, pedestrian impulses of most other people who seek and crave political power. It's nothing more or less than that, and it is just as imperative today as it was yesterday that the sickly right-wing faction be permanently removed from power and that there is never any such thing as the John McCain Administration (as one commenter ironically noted yesterday, at the very least, Obama is far more likely to appoint Supreme Court Justices who will rule that the bill Obama supports is patently unconstitutional)..." Glenn Greenwald

[havocmom]

91. How 'bout link to opinion OP said Obama has?

I am plenty critical/skeptical about politicians, but I also extend that to strangers posting anonymously on internet forums.

And, I'm from Missouri. Gotta show me.

[SaveAmerica]

59. I need a link to your link.

[gateley]

2. He needs our money and WE need to get him in the White House.

As pissed and disappointed as I am, I have no other choice unless I want to see McCain in the WH next January. Our country can't survive that.

[roguevalley]

44. which is it? I'm out of the loop here. I see a post that says he will

fight the immunity and this says no. My head is spinning. :P

[gateley]

94. We're just going to have to wait and see, I guess.

I think there's some question (to me, anyway) that means he'll get up on the floor and fight approval of the bill, if he'll present an argument to strip the immunity clause (which I've read can't be done - it would have to go back to the House), or if he'll vote against it (even though he said he'd support it). No wonder we're confused!

I'm wondering what Dodd and Feingold are going to do, if they'll take it beyond their statements.

[bjobotts]

77. We will put him in the WH without doubt but bind him to his promises and the rule of law.

[anonymous171]

4. No wonder no one tries to court progressives. It's impossible to keep them on your side.

[skooooo]

7. I think they ("we") can be somewhat puritanical...nt

[elocs]

10. It's like herding cats and each and every progressive has their own agenda

and what is important to them and god help the politician who does not jump through their hoops and vote as they desire, otherwise they will take their ball and go home or even better yet, threaten to vote for the Republican opponent (an absurd way of biting your nose off to spite your face only in this case the country will suffer if McCain wins). No, progressives are a bunch that really cannot be pleased and I think they prefer it that way.

[Peacetrain]

35. first thing that crossed my mind also..herding cats..~sigh~

[bjobotts]

78. Oh bullshit. You can be critical and still support Obama.But lose enthusiasm when he fails.

only an idiot tries to herd cats and it's a bad reference. We pressure our candidates to get them to do what is right not what is "politically correct". Obama will win in a landslide but now it will be an angry landslide

[dana_b]

95. right

thanks for your statement.

Herding cats? Jeez, thanks for all of the insults. Because we don't blindly support every thing he does/says, we're now unloyal and like a bunch of uncontrollable cats. There has been so many insults over this the past couple of days it's amazing. Some people have threatened not to support him, but not all of us have done that. For some of us, it's a wait and see what the does. I will still vote for him, so please, tone down the insults.

[earth mom]

39. So shredding the Constitution is okay in your book?

:wtf:

Well, it ain't in mine.

I knew something like would happen. :puke:

[elocs]

49. "Shredding the Constitution"--that's so far over the top it's not funny.

It's a good strawman, though. Just accuse a Democrat of shredding the Constitution or that they must hate the Constitution as a way of getting them to exactly line up with the purist "winning means nothing, only being perfectly right and pure does" crowd. Only one accepted point of view and everybody else are just Constitutional hating DINOs.

[Araxen]

6. On the front page of digg

http://digg.com/politics/Obama_Supports_FISA_Legislation_Angering_Left

[jkshaw]

8. Do a little research on the complications

involved with the passage and/or nonpassage of FISA before you fly off the handle.

As for me, our family does not intend to stop donating our monthly $300 to this man, a sum we can hardly afford to throw to the four winds since my husband and I are living on a pension. To withhold donations toward the only chance we have to get rid of this administration because of one incredibly painful and complex decision is the height of folly -- whether it be $10 or $100 or $300. The entire mass of hysteria thrown out over this one piece of legislation along with brickbats at Obama shows the fickleness of the electorate.

Big of you to vote for him, though.

[blondeatlast]

16. Thank you for thinking of the next generation; it's all too easy to forget

that this isn't just OUR election.

When my son was born, the future seemed bright. The economy was strong, the US was at peace, the civil rights and women's movement had seemed to change the nation forever for the better.

He's 11 now, and in his short life, it seems that has turned around completely. I worry that he might face a draft, I make him study at home as well as at school due to the limitations his school faces from NCLB, and even our comfortable life is threatened by a rapidly souring economy (three homes within two blocks have been foreclosed on--this is a solidly middle class area, too). He's seen the monsters of sexism and racism resurface and even been the victim of racism himself (his father is brown).

I've never began by backing the winning Democratic candidate but I've never considered voting any other way.

I thought 2004 was so critical; I couldn't imagine that the threat could become even worse.

My son has seen both sets of grandparents pass; his maternals were active progressives from my earliest memories. It's good to know that there are those of their generation who think of him and the millions like him when they vote.

Thank you from the blondeatlast family; thank you from the bottoms of our hearts. I truly mean that. :hug:

[Cha]

21. Wow, I'm in Awe, jkshaw!

Thank you, so much..that's so generous:loveya:

[Runcible Spoon]

43. wow that's as much as my student loan payments!

at this rate running for president may be the only way for me to pay them down. sigh.

[tabatha]

9. You don't understand the stakes.

[HousePainter]

11. To all those who are ranting about the FISA Bill :

Have you read the bill ?

[Blue_Roses]

42. this needs to be it's own thread...

:thumbsup:

[keep_it_real]

12. Obama said on FISA

"It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -- making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law," Obama said today.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html

[ncteechur]

13. Puuuuuuhhhhhhleeeeaassee! Give me a break.

[Danger Mouse]

14. Oh fuck this ideological purity that some of us seem to be in love with.

[WeDidIt]

20. The blogological terminology is "Purity Trolling" n/t

[Danger Mouse]

33. fuck that, too.

[WeDidIt]

15. OH COOL! LET'S ELECT MC CAIN!

Then we'll have a president who will gleefully use the new FISA law to spy on you and put you in prison because you're a liberal. You're reacting just as McCain wants you to with this trap legislation.

That makes so much more sense than helping to elect Obama who will not use the powers in that bill and will work with a Democratic Congress to overturn it after he;s in office.

Yep, you're doing the RIGHT THING! Principle is soooooo much more important than reality. After all, principle caused thousands to vote for Nader in Florida, and we all know how that turned out.

Then you get to live in the knowledge that you would only accept the perfect, to HELL with the good.

[ogradda]

71. O, God, please lets not......

Btw, I like your screen name. :)

[chascarrillo]

17. Oh good fucking grief.

[blondeatlast]

18. Not a parent and you don't plan or hope to be one, I guess. nt

[blondeatlast]

19. Post. Get seriously mocked and taken to the cleaners. Decide it might be better NOT to brag

about how this thread went down.

Take out the trash; mom's getting really, really, royally pissed.

Run.

[Kahuna]

22. I guess you want McCain to win then. nt

[Tatiana]

23. "Anymore flip flops?" What flip flops has he done?

And you can't count this one because he hasn't voted yet.

[H2O Man]

24. oh, dear

[FrenchieCat]

25. The bill will still pass.

No matter what Obama does.

If folks don't donate, Obama may lose, and the bill will still have passed.

Just sayin'.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

40. Wow-what in the hell are you threatening here?

:wtf:

[Runcible Spoon]

45. holee shite.

just wow. please seek help immediately.

[Forkboy]

67. Dude....don't make promises your body may not be able to keep.

Big mouths tend to bite off more than they can chew.

Try the decaf instead....

[Stephanie]

27. Flip-flop is the current RW meme, by the way. It's on the cover of the NY Post today.

The repubs are the party of NO ideas, all they can do is retread the old smears. Hey, flip-flop worked on Kerry, why not try it with Obama. And the entire right is falling in line. Congrats.

[havocmom]

28. Hit & Run post. Nothing from OP in almost an hour. No link to backup claim

Stink. This thread has an odor like something from under a bridge.

[blondeatlast]

29. Great minds!

I'm rather proud of post 189...

Howya doin'? ED kicked some ass with her McCain post today!

[havocmom]

30. Hey OP: Obama: I'll Fight To Strip Telecom Immunity From FISA

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/21/politics/horserace/entry4200105.shtml

Get it right or no playing on this playground.

[beezlebum]

101. thank you havocmom

:hi:

i've only had time to skim the nooz and DU today.

[skooooo]

31. No problem...

I'll donate extra to make up for the great loss that is you.

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

50. Very courageous of you--unlike the cs OP. nt

[cliffordu]

32. That'll show him, all right.

[blonndee]

36. Well, fuck.

Even though I'm disappointed too, I realize the difference between an Obama and a McCain presidency. But since fellow "Dems" and "progressives" like yourself would rather see us bomb Iran and have women's reproductive rights eroded, at minimum, I guess I'm going to have to start eating beans and cornbread to make up for the lost donations of people like you. Oh well. I'll do it, because I know it's worth it. And it's the right thing to do. I will literally do whatever it takes to get a Democrat elected this year, in SPITE of people like you.

[Duder]

37. Thanks for sharing n/t

[Imagevision]

38. So go and vote for Mccain ...next!

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[closeupready]

46. I understand. I'm very disappointed in this centrist-direction he's been taking,

with regard to FISA, NAFTA and talk about Nunn as VP. :mad:

[AZBlue]

47. "I just won't vote"

John McCain thanks you for your support.

[MoonRiver]

48. I agree.

I will not give a cent to him unless he starts offering a lot more than "hope.". I want change dammit. :mad:

[BootinUp]

60. lol. Sorry

that was funny to us pessimists. :)

[MoonRiver]

63. Keep hope alive, or ELSE!

:D

[smoogatz]

51. How much were you going to contribute?

I'll double it.

[Araxen]

56. $2300 during the primaries

[Catherina]

61. Call his campaign, give them your name, tell them this is what you planned on donating

but are now watching to see how he handles the FISA vote and explain your concerns. He needs to hear from concerned voters right now, not cheerleaders.

Tell them to make sure they check that you donated in the past too.

[bjobotts]

79. Donations and votes are what we have to pressure a candidate into keeping his promises

[The Doctor.]

132. Yeah, putting McCain in the White House oughtta put some 'pressure' on him.

:eyes:

[smoogatz]

90. You gave $2300, but now, because you're dissatisfied

with Obama's statement on a single issue, you're done? Riiiiight.

[Skittles]

52. are you just now figuring out he is a politician? n/t

[ileus]

53. me either, I have bills to pay.

unless he's going to give me money to pay them I can't afford to donate.

[Raine]

54. Let McSAME win then

the King of flip flops since Obama has to be so pure and perfect to be worthy of your donation because you're so perfect yourself. :sarcasm:

[nsd]

55. It must be wonderful to be so pure.

Unfortunately, I live in the real world of the Iraq war, a tanking economy, religious know-nothings, Halliburton, and so on. I'm not going to abandon our best hope because he's doing what he has to to get to the White House.

You can keep your money. I think there are more than enough of us to take up the slack.

[krawhitham]

57. He is the Democratic candidate

Either support him or leave

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evergreen Emerald]

62. The fourth Amendment should NOT BE a compromise

[Blue_Roses]

70. no where did I even remotely suggest that the 4th Amendment should be in any way a

compromise. You see, this is the problem with this board sometimes. People go off half-cocked with THEIR interpretation of what SOMEBODY ELSE said, when in actuality, that is NOT what has been said AT ALL!

While I can see YOUR point about the importance of leaving the 4th Amendment in check, I will not sit back and watch or listen to someone spew half-truths about something before they have all the evidence. We really don't know what is going on with Senator Obama's choice in this matter. But rather than sit tight and wait for an explanation, everyone is running around screaming, "Henny Penny the sky is falling," to no avail. It's immature, careless, and irresponsible--something my nine-year-old does when she's flailing against her sister.

Barack Obama is STILL a SENATOR--NOT THE PRESIDENT--and while there are many, MANY of us who may not like it, we still play by Bush's rules(even as fucked-up as they are)--for now. Have you even read the FISA bill and amendment? I bet not, 'cause when I sat down to try and read it I was boggled by all the "jargon" that is slipped in. The average (I know, there's that word "average" again) person--us, the constituents--really don't know a flying flip about what this bill entails, hell, over half the congress doesn't because many have never bothered to read it. Many didn't even read the Patriot Act. But we sure can take a sound-bite and chew it all to bits.

My point: I am not going to throw my presidential nominee under the bus for a decision (which we all will see the outcome soon) that I disagree with JUST because I "know" it's wrong, when I don't even "know" what the fuck the bill says (other than giving retro immunity to prosecute telecomm). Let's get the WHOLE story before we start ranting, "no more money 'cause Obama didn't do what he said."

I trust he will do the right thing, in the long run, no less.

BTW, here is the bill if you feel like reading it.

http://thomas.loc.gov/

put in H.R. 3773

[Kahuna]

66. Wow. That was blunt.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Imagevision]

64. "I won't vote" but I will be pissed if McBush wins? (that's funny)

[blondeatlast]

65. POST (hurry, take out the trash' coz mom's rilly po'ed), RUN. nt

[Forkboy]

68. First candidate blues?

[ZinZen]

69. Well, Bob Barr's campaign

could use an infusion of money. Please try and see the bigger picture. NO politician is going please us on everything, and Obama has stated that point on numerous occasions.

[barack the house]

72. FISA was instituted by Crater Obama has only been against immunity...

The constitution allows searches but with a warrant that FISA does provide.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

123. Who the fuck is Crater Obama? n/t

[Max_powers94]

73. Ummm...

WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You better support Obama.

[nsd]

74. If McCain wins and bombs Iran, you will have no right to complain. /nt

[bjobotts]

81. McCain will never win and it's not because of Obama. Any dem would beat him

The republican disaster will be defeated by the voters out of necessity to save our democracy and our economy. 15 point lead for Obama over McCain illustrates it is because voters want republicans out and dems in as all the polls indicate. Threatening a McCain win is ridiculous. You should always keep a candidate bound to the constitution and his promises and not blindly trust him with unlimited powers. Obama must be held accountable also.

[bjobotts]

82. What if when Obama wins, he changes his mind and bombs Iran without congress approval

[bjobotts]

83. Best idea is make sure president must get congressional approval rather than blindly trust

[bjobotts]

84. I believe in and trust the constitution & holding accountable those who violate it

[bjobotts]

86. Obama, McCain, Pelosi, Bush, Reid,Hoyer, Rockefeller, Cheney or anybody

[depakid]

80. You know what's sad?

This was a Kerry Moment.

Anyone remember?

Bush asked (in an angry petulent way)

If you (John Kerry) knew (everything that we "hid" from you) -would you still have voted the way you did on IWR?

Memeber how John Kerry did?

Curious.

[FrenchieCat]

85. Obama ain't even voted yet.

Go dance on your own grave.

Do you support Obama? Cause I'm still wondering.
Never read a positive post from you in reference to Barack.

Since I didn't get an answer from you last time I asked, I'm asking again.

[bjobotts]

87. No but he publicly announced his support and how he will vote

go to [email protected] to know how to treat Obama and no it's not negative.

[havocmom]

92. Also said no to immunity

[depakid]

88. Obama wasn't in the Senate

So we don't know what he would have done, were he there. We can however, look at other votes and ask ourselves what we might expect to see in a president.

BTW: There are Obama signs and bumperstickers here ('bout twice as many as Ron Paul) throughout Southern Oregon and far north California).

We saw one McCain sticker -on the back of an old 4 banger pickup. Sad that.

[Mass]

106. Never happened. Bush never asked that to Kerry.

Amusing as some people invent. As much as you invent when it comes to Obama. You did not even read what he wrote.

[barack the house]

89. The constitution does say that searches are allowed with warrants and obama has always been against

immunity

[uponit7771]

93. The new FISA provision allows the president to bypass FISA under "exigent" circumstance which the...

...president gets to choose with little oversight even retroactively.

It's a violation of the 4th amendment and will not stand up in the USSC.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

96. I love me some hit-n-run bullshit OPs. Araxen? Where'd ya go, pardner?

[Catherina]

97. Too many people here to fight. Araxen has a good general point

If you don't feel a politician is representing your views on certain core issues, in this case the constitution, why should you fork over your hard-earned money?

For politicians only two things get their attention, your money and your vote because it's the only power you have as a voter. Money walks, bullshit talks.

If I hadn't already given the max, I'd be telling Obama the same thing :shrug: As it is, he's already getting an earful from me and many others. Try to call his offices today, the voicemailboxes at Campaign HQs and the Senate offices have remained full since Friday night.

I did a search on Araxen's posts here and think it's unfair to beat him up. Obama just seriously disappointed a lot of genuine supporters who were bargaining more on change than on hope, check out known supporters on his own blog if you don't believe me.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/jerrycharboneau

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/drsusannefreeborn/gG5RTr

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/monkeywrench/gG5Sjb

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/isabelsantamaria/gG5SMf

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/triciachristensen/gG5SCR

There are many more comments here: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-15,GGLJ:en&q=site%3amy%2ebarackobama%2ecom+Obama+blog+FISA and if you pay close attention, traffic in GDP has dropped. There are a lot of Obama supporters saying nothing rather than say the wrong thing and get beaten up the way Araxen just did.

Obama needs to address this and carefully navigate this minefield with a better response to his supporters. I think he's smart enough to realize he just stepped on it and savvy enough to change his course of action and come out smelling like a rose.

[Araxen]

99. Get off your high horse and take off the blinders

FISA violates our 4th amendment rights and I'm not going to sit around with blinders on like the right does with McCain. I will hold Obama accountable for his statements because I hold Obama to a higher standard than any candidate and he's a constitutional professor! He knows what the 4th ammendment is and that it needs to be upheld and not comprised in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.

I could have cared less about campaigns before Obama hit the scene but I've been 100% behind Obama since his 2004 speech at the DNC. His announcement that he will support FISA goes against the standard I hold Obama too and that is to protect to the Constitution of the United States. He can proclaim "he'll fight the immunity" but I don't believe him for one second especially after this flip flop on FISA. The "fight for immunity" is just politics and just a token gesture. He may prove me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

My top issue is that Obama is for Net Neutrality and that's the major reason why I'm voting for him, but if he can't keep his promise on FISA is he going to keep his promise on Net Neutrality which is a very small issue to alot of people.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

100. Withholding your vote and money is not a good approach.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

June 21, 2008, 12:20 PM
Obama: I'll Fight To Strip Telecom Immunity From FISA
Posted by David S Morgan| 305
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/21/politics/horserace/entry4200105.shtml

(CBS/AP) - Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., issued a statement in support of the House's update of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, but said he would try to strip a provision granting immunity to telecommunication companies when the bill comes to a vote in the Senate next week.

If we are to stand any chance of turning this country around, we must support the Democratic nominee. I advocate taking a deep breath and holding Obama absolutely accountable to his word when he is elected. The FISA bill is an intentionally divisive boondoggle designed to weaken cohesiveness within the supporting factions of the democratic party. Advocating for withholding your vote and monetary support is exactly the desired results sought by the Repukes.

The big picture is what is important here.

I urge everyone to keep vigilant in demanding accountability for their Representative's actions. However, preemptively espousing that we abandon ship is entirely unwise.

[Catherina]

103. BD How do you hold a politician accountable after he's elected?

I seriously have yet to figure that one out. I think the reason we're in the kind of mess we're in is because we have no mechanism in this country to hold them accountable. We can't vote them out of office for no confidence like in many countries.

Once most of them get into office on our backs, with our labor, they can thumb their noses at us because the corporations can sweeten their pots a lot more than we can.

My question is a general one, not Obama-related.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

109. It starts with our local Reps...

and requires us as citizens working locally to motivate other people to care enough to protest, picket, and petition for the changes we desire.

The lack of support of the corporate media, or should I say its intentional malfeasance, is the largest roadblock we face in banding together. The repeal of the Telecommunications act of 1996 must occur...

Merging Media

Approximate number of daily newspapers in North America: 1800
Approximate number of magazines in North America: 11,000
Approximate number of radio stations in North America: 11,000
Approximate number of television stations in North America: 2000
Approximate number of book publishers in North America: 3000
Number of companies owning a controlling interest in the media listed above in 1984: 50
Number of companies owning a controlling interest in the media listed above in 1987: 26
Number of companies owning a controlling interest in the media listed above in 1996: 10
Number of companies owning a controlling interest in the media listed above in 2002: 6

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/media.html (great info here)

I don't know what else we can do at this point either, and I share your feeling of impotence in holding our politician's feet to the fire.

[Catherina]

113. Protests, pickets and petitions haven't gotten us very far

They thumbed their noses at us everytime and tried to calm us down with pandering statements with holes so big you could send an army of Republican elephants through them.

In a fair world to voters, there should be a way for voters to establish general legal contracts with the candidates and vote them out if they don't deliver. The telecommunications act needs to be repealed yesterday but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because it was a Democrat whose feet we couldn't hold to the fire who gave us that one.

I've become kind of tough-love purse-strings over the last few years. I get very involved, supporting the better ones and then hold their nuts in one of these



We won't even hire street cleaners without a contract. Why should politicians be exempt?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

115. They absolutely shouldn't be exempt.

We do have contracts with our politicians, but no-one to enforce them as "we, the people" don't seem to care enough to act in unison. There are no magic elixirs (or surgical nut-clamps), just strength in numbers and conviction.

[Catherina]

118. So why is Araxen getting shat upon for doing his part to act with conviction?

It's bizarre, you and I are saying exactly the same thing BD and yet one of us is fighting with Araxen and the other isn't. I'm not blaming you, I'm just amazed at how easily we go at each others throats. It's a big shame there are so many disruptors around that people can't tell who's sincere anymore and who's just a shit-stirrer.

I'll be SO glad when these elections are over. At that point, I'll have to ask the Admins for a new name because there are people whose heads I've bitten off, including Obama supporters, in feisty moments I'm not too proud of.

I hope you have the good heart and patience to help anxious supporters like me allay certain recent fears. Frenchie, AZBlue and a few others were very patient and helped calm me down and at least wait until we see how he responds and how he votes. Maybe we can do the same for Araxen? I feel so cheesy in this post but they really did help :hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

121. The threat to not vote

is an abdication of responsibility IMO. It sows dissension here and is counter-productive to initiating change. Re-establishing a level of legitimacy in government will not happen with McLame, and there is no guarantee with Obama either, but I consider our chances much greater with him in office. I find the OP offensive in that advancing the no-vote as an option come November is the same option advocated by Repukes and disruptors.

I have read many of your posts Catherina and I know we share similar positions on many issues. I respect your civil discourse and sincerely hope we are graced with a President that Obama purports himself to become. Best of the rest of the day to you... :hi:

Edited for clarity, not sure if is was accomplished...

[Catherina]

127. Mission accomplished BD

I'd just like to point out that Araxen's still planning on voting for him per the OP. Obama's already disappointed me a few times but I checked out his feet closely before the Primaries and noticed all the clay ;) If it weren't for the great discourse at DU where people people were able to prick my conscience about not walking away the times he did, I might not have remained so loyal because two of those things were core issues for me. I think Obama's on very shaky ground with this FISA thing and can't believe his advisors didn't advise against that statement. He'll come out smelling like a rose, maybe a little bruised, but I think our job as a group is to hold tight together and reach out to fellow supporters when they're feeling a bit let down.

If we can forgive Obama when he's not perfect, I think we can forgive each other too. Someone like Araxen is alot easier to hold on to with open understanding and empathy than recruiting a brand new supporter especially with all the fears the GOP is playing on.

I hope the next 8 years will be great for you, all supporters and all Americans, not to mention better for nameless people around the world. Thanks so much BD. I love this place. I'm so glad I registered and met so many great people like you. :hi:

[Araxen]

107. I'm sorry...

I'm sorry if you do not want to keep anybody accountable for protecting the Constitution, but I will.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherina]

102. Contact his Senate office Monday Araxen. You'll get a live person

and they'll take down your message word for word. Be firm and polite but not angry. They're extremely responsive and very conscientious about letting Obama know what his supporters are feeling.

As far as the money goes, there's no reason you can't wait a few weeks or months before sending another cent. You have until November to observe and make up your mind. I hope your faith is restored soon because there's a lot riding on him including the lives of many US soldiers and innocent people in resource-rich countries.

[changeplease]

98. Aftter What I Pay for Gas

Its kind of heard to give anyway, but when he flip flops, it does make it that much harder to want to give, especially if your cash flow is bad right now. Then, when you consider that he might cut a deal to pay off part of Hillary's debt, and think that your money might got to that, its a tough call. I guess if I had tons of money, it wouldn't matter so much.

[Catherina]

104. I hope you called and passed your feelings on

He needs to hear from you to understand how you feel.

In all fairness, he's in a totally alternate world right now, very cut off from real people (except to fawn all over him at rallies) and
counting on advisors. You owe it to yourself to get your feelings to an advisor. He's got good ones, they'll relay the message if they get enough of them from people who feel the same way you do.

[madeline_con]

105. Link here...

Obama Supports FISA Legislation, Angering Left


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html

[Mass]

108. Could it be the first time the Post gets something wrong?

I would have preferred that Obama had announced he would filibuster, but I am sorry. Nobody should expect that from the person who is running for president. It is the best way to lose in the system we have.

So, if we want to blame somebody, blame those who authorize this vote: Reid and Pelosi. They can go f*ck themselves.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

111. Here's a better one...

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/21/politics/horserace/entry4200105.shtml

Obama: I'll Fight To Strip Telecom Immunity From FISA

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

112. Then why the hell are you still here? n/t

[Catherina]

116. Cause he/she votes and supported Obama would be my educated guess.

Since when is it a requirement to CONTINUE giving money to a politician, after you've already given a very generous $2300, to post here? Do a search on Araxen's posts. He/she has every right to be here.

Obama's not made of sugar, he can survive some tough love criticism from supporters.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

117. Tough criticism is one thing.

An I'm-gonna-take-my-toys-and-go-home attitude is another.

[Catherina]

119. This isn't the normal cookie-cutter Democratic election

Obama brought many independents into the movement on whom the lockstep loyalty thing isn't going to work. It's not even working on Democrats anymore.

People like Araxen got Obama where he is, why spit on them now? Obama mis-stepped and as much as want him for President, he has some 'splaining to do because there are tons of Araxens out there. Check out his own blog rather than take my word

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/jerrycharboneau

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/drsusannefreeborn/gG5RTr

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/monkeywrench/gG5Sjb

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/isabelsantamaria/gG5SMf

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/triciachristensen/gG5SCR

There are many more comments here: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-15,GGLJ:en&q=site%3amy%2ebarackobama%2ecom+Obama+blog+FISA

I want us to win but the right way which Obama is fully capable of doing. Let's give us all a chance?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

120. Um...

People like Araxen got Obama where he is, why spit on them now?

Because they're helping John McCain. Why is that so hard to understand?


I want us to win but the right way which Obama is fully capable of doing. Let's give us all a chance?

So let me get this straight - you want Obama to win. Therefore it's OK to refuse to help him win because you disagree with him on an issue. Grandiose, self-important reasoning like this is why Nader sucked enough votes from Gore in order to put Bush in the White House.

[Catherina]

124. How is Araxen helping John McCain? I daresay telling an Obama supporter

who already gave him $2,300 to go away is helping McCain more.

Obama's not made of sugar. He handled all the slime thrown at him during the Primaries and came out smelling like a rose. He'll handle this one just fine after realizing that the Constitution isn't something the activists he made a deal with are going to take lying down.

I must, what a shock after these Primaries, have more faith in Obama's capabilities than you do :shrug:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

126. Dude, do you remember 2000?

I have ZERO sympathy - NONE for any Democrat threatening not to vote for Obama. I don't care how much they donated. Disagreeing with a candidate on a SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION is not reason enough to withhold your vote. Again, this bent logic got us Bush, and this odious FISA situation, in the first place.

[Catherina]

129. Like it was yesterday

I think you're missing something here. It's not just about the FISA vote, it's about Obama possibly revealing that he's just another politician making empty promises he has no intention of keeping and working on the same corporate bipartisan agenda that got so many people hurting and gotten us into some pretty bad wars.

We need every single vote we can get to make up for some of the racist votes he's lost. We can't beat votes out of people; since the OP hasn't walked away yet and still plans to vote for Obama, why send them packing now?

[grantcart]

128. actually Araxen has just helped raised several thousand dollars for Obama

wish I had thought of it myself lol

[Catherina]

130. Woohoo! Silver linings everywhere :) n/t

[dkf]

122. Instead of boycotting, why don't you communicate!!

http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2

This is his contact page.

Tell him how you feel. He says he wants to be a grass-roots President, not a special-interests President.

[cbc5g]

125. Because of this thread, im contributing 100 dollars to Obama

I'm not going to sit back and watch the whiners try to destroy a democrats candidacy because he doesn't pander to everything they want and has to compromise and go towards the middle instead. Most Americans don't know the fourth amendment but they do know terrorism. He can't be soft and win. I trust Obama in the presidency protecting our liberties A LOT MORE than I do McCain. How about you?

[Catherina]

131. Thanks cbc5g. This is great news!

:loveya: I'd love you even if it were $10.