NY Times on the debate & laughing at-- not with--Dean, etc

[cryofan]

Amazingly, for the NY Times, this article on today's debate, actually reflects in reality pretty much what happened. And somehow -- somehow -- Dean failed to receive less than his customary 75% of the article's copy being centered around him.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


JOHNSTON, Iowa, Jan. 4 — For sheer comedic appeal, the Democratic presidential debate on Sunday was short a Sharpton, though it had its moments. As when Howard Dean offhandedly promised to balance the budget "in the sixth or seventh year of my administration."

Someone howled, and the audience, noticeably short of Dean partisans, broke up at the presumptuousness. Dr. Dean seemed not to realize that he was the butt of the joke, and even his campaign manager, Joe Trippi, later said he thought the crowd was laughing with him.


Laughing *with* him...yeah, right, Joe....

....


Also, amazingly, Kucinich got plenty of copy about him in this article. Here is some of it:


Mr. Kucinich, a former mayor of Cleveland, owned up to having "fired the chief of police, live, on the 6 o'clock news on Good Friday," adding: "If any of you can top that, I'll yield to you. But let's say that in the years since, I have learned a certain amount of diplomacy."


The other candidates' answers were more self-serving.




The article even ends -- astoundingly! -- with positive paragraphs about Kucinich. He even gets an upbeat quote to close the article.

I have to wonder whether the Times is afraid that even the somnolent sheeple are beginning to twig to their evil little game.

The rest of the article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/05/politics/campaigns/05IOWA.html

[adadem]

1. I thought

Dean was downright serious when he said that...sure didn't appear to be a joke.

[cryofan]

2. umm,,,I think you misunderstood.....

...the humor was not intended by Dean. He was the butt of the joke by the audience. Or maybe you intentionally misunderstood.....

[Mairead]

45. He seemed perfectly serious to me, too

It looked to me as though he was surprised and irritated by the reaction to his unconscious assumptions, but then immediately realised he must have said something though not what, and then a few seconds later figured out what it was. It looked as though he'd been taken totally by surprise, but worked it out very quickly. It was interesting to watch.

[Bombtrack]

3. maybe they were laughing at the ludicrousness of Dean being elected

much less re-elected.

[adadem]

11. Right on

I think he has convinced himself that he's already elected and then re-elected...just like shrub thinks that.

[cryofan]

23. And the guy only has 22% of 100% of the polling respondents

Dean, his supporters, and the elite media and pundits all seem to assume, perhaps disingenuously, that when most of the other candidates drop, all or most of the other 78% will go to him. I doubt it....

[Eric J in MN]

4. I didn't think it was funny.

I didn't think it was funny.

They all say "When I'm President," no matter how they're doing in the polls.

Dean was being honest that it would take at least 6 years after he were elected to bring down the deficit.

I think it was rude to laugh.

[last1standing]

5. Oh no! a few people laughed at Dean!

And yet he didn't melt. :)

Get over it already. This is as bad as the post about the Kerry camp lying about whether he was on the bus to a supporter.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

15. This is surely the end of the Dean candidacy

I'm switiching to a candidate who is never the source of ridicule!

[last1standing]

21. If it helps, I no longer laugh at bush*.

He scares me too much.

Seriously, you can tell how well Dean did in the debate by the number of ridiculous, whiny threads that have been posted this evening. I wonder what they'll do once the primary is settled. Probably just sit in their "Curse Dean" closets chanting "ABD...ABD...ABD"!

[bearfartinthewoods]

43. well now, thewre is a novel way to judge the success of a performance

the more they laugh at you, the better you did.

maybe in a comedy club....

[windansea]

6. trippi is a spindaddy

it was so obvious they were NOT laughing with him

[KaraokeKarlton]

7. It's not "presumptuousness...it's called confidence

And Dean will balance the budget by the 6th year he serves as president. Oh, and when he's going up for re-election in 2008, you'll be singing his praises here on DU. I'm going to be watching for it so I can say "I told you so."

[hellhathnofury]

8. I just saw it on the replay.

It's hard to tell, but they probably were laughing at the presumptuousness of it. He figured out what they were laughing at and got the joke.

I think it's pretty funny. They all do the same thing of "When I am president." Non-issue.

[madfloridian]

13. It was funny. I have heard the others talk like that.

You guys are so filled with hatred, that there will be no coming together after the primaries.

[maddezmom]

38. no hatred here

it was funny, and people laughed. Where is the hatred?

[Kahuna]

50. "Figured it out?" Why was he looking around and saying..

"What?" "What?" It was the classic reaction of someone who is the butt of a joke and doesn't know it.

[zulchzulu]

9. I winced for Dean when I heard him say that comment

Dean was pretty arrogant to assume he would even have 6 years to be playing around with as President.

Let's just say that it was not quite a gaffe, but damn near one.

[AP]

12. As noted elsewhere at DU, the funny part was that he said he was agreeing

with Edwards. However, what Edwards said was that you shouldn't trust anyone who gives you a precise date for balancing the budget.

It was funny that Dean didn't understand what he was saying.

Then he compounded the blunder by seeming surprised and asking the audience, "what are you laughing at" (as if the audience would collectively reply).

[KaraokeKarlton]

16. Edwards just hasn't balanced a budget before so he can't really judge

It was a "gotcha" question and he answered it the best way he could. Dean has an extensive record and long term experience of balancing budgets, and he's already thought about this issue in depth. Dean has always been somewhat militant about fiscal responsibility. It's one of his trademarks. Any long term governor could have given a fairly accurate estimate of when the budget could be balanced.

Your candidate did very well in the debate today. Ironically, a lot of the things he was saying sounded like my candidate. I also got the impression that Edwards is positioning himself for either VP or Attorney General should Dean get the nomination. Most Dean supporters don't dislike Edwards and would love to see him on the same team as Dean. I don't see a lot of other Edwards supporters holding Dean in contempt as you seem to. :shrug:

[Webster Green]

22. Precise date?

I still don't get what you are talking about. The gist of what Dean said about when the budget will be balanced was: Oh, I don't know, maybe the 6th or 7th term of my administration. Is that a precise date? You folks are grasping at straws for sure. It's kind of sad to watch.

[bitchkitty]

40. Grasping at straws -

and it's not just sad, it's fucking pathetic.

[HFishbine]

41. More straw gasping

"The other candidates' answers were more self-serving."

Dean's apology to Edwards in reply to "What mistakes have you made?" was self-serving?

[BootinUp]

42. AP got this right

dead on. I taped it last night and was just watching it. In one sentence he said he agreed with John Edwards and then that he would balance the budget in 6 or 7 years. John Edwards had just said that you can't trust someone who says they will balance the budget, that he would reduce the deficit and invest in his programs.

Dean wasn't as sharp as usual and he slipped on this one. I thought he looked tired and was stumbling over his words more than usual in this debate.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

10. When I saw it

I agree that it seemed like they were laughing at him.

[WillyT]

14. In A Way, It's Less Presumptuous Of Dean To Say That, Than The Others...

since as of this moment he has the best shot at securing the nomination. and that gives only him the shot at winning the presidency, no?

LOL!!!

:hi::evilgrin::hi:

[stickdog]

17. He who laughs last ...

[madfloridian]

18. Some on here love to just ridicule.

It is mindless ridicule. It serves no purpose but to antagonize others you should be working with on bringing our country back from the GOP hands.

You would rather make fun of someone, anyone, than post a positive post.

[madfloridian]

19. Cryofan, this is your second thread on this topic.

This is just pettiness.

[DFLforever]

20. I don't think we need this story to know the NYT doesn't support Dean

but what would really be fun to read in the NYT is how Dean finally gets a hold on the catastrophic Bush deficits somewhere in the middle of his second term.

[RafterMan]

24. My take

I thought people were laughing because not one minute before, Edwards had said, "Anyone who tells you exactly when he's going to balance the budget is lying". Then Dean said exactly when he was going to balance the budget.

I could be wrong, though.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. It is obvious they were not laughing at Dean at all

Watch the tape again.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

26. Good news, bad news

Bad news: I'm pretty sure they were laughing at Dean.

Good news: It couldn't possibly matter any less, or have less of an effect on his candidacy.

If he had stabbed a live baby during the debate, I would say then that he had a problem. But it was my understanding that NO BABIES WERE HARMED during the course of the debates! Huzzah!

[robbedvoter]

29. The GOP standard: not falling on one's face= victory!

It's how W beat Gore, Poppy beat Dukakis, Raygun beat Mondale. The teflon story....

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

32. So you mean

that you WERE expecting Dean to stab a baby during the debate?

[Cheswick2.0]

30. no they weren't

they were laughing at the moderator.

[cryofan]

31. Umm...the NYTimes reporter was in the audience!

I assume he had a pretty good idea of what was going on there.

[Webster Green]

27. yo, cryofan!

Do you have any other good sources for right wing crappola that you would like to share?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[molly]

44. Shame on you! I don't think so - just because we don't

like or agree with Dean, we are certainly not freepers! BTW, I saw Dean's comment and I couldn't believe what I was seeing or hearing. The man didn't have a clue! He stood there dumbfounded when the audience started laughing.

[Kayla]

46. Amen, Molly

This thread is creepy.

Someone back there referred to us not being able to unite behind whomever is nominated.

Please don't make that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Everyone, get a hold of yourselves.

No "I told you so's" after our candidate is chosen.

Remember: the idea is to get rid of BushCo, not to tear our party apart; there is too much at stake this time!

[Oreegone]

34. The likely Candidates

The likely Candidates for them to support would be the ones at the bottom of the polls....I have to agree with you because of some of the posts I have seen. Especially since most Kucinich people I know are peace loving folks and these posters are dripping hate.

[cryofan]

35. Are you serious?

You think I am a freeper? Hey, I was kicked off of FR and told to come here! Many times!!

Look, my post is not hateful, in my opinion. However I think it might be fruitful for you and certain others here to examine the tone of the first 2 paragraphs of the article itself and ask yourself why the reporter wrote it that way....

[quaker bill]

36. The funny thing is

He probably can and would do it. It took only one year to dig this hole in the budget. With a sufficient tax increase it could be filled just as quickly. Dean is choosing a more moderate course to solve the problem over several years, like Clinton did.

I loved CMB's line about the immorality of passing our expenses on to future generations. She was dead on target with that one.

[Padraig18]

39. CMB believes the same thing Paul Simon did.

One of Paul's most famous lines is "Liberal does not mean wastrel", and Paul co-authored the balanced-budget amendment; he believed that we should pay for making societal improvements out of CURRENT revenues rather than burden future generations. He was and CMB is correct.

[seaglass]

37. They were laughing at Dean and he was at a loss for

words, he had no idea why they were laughing.

This is it, this is the thread that separates the reasonable Dean supporters who understand he is human and not perfect from the Dean-is-infallible supporters.

Dean and some of his supporters would be much more tolerable if they had just a speck of humility.

[cryofan]

47. "speck of humility"...LOL!

Yeah, a lot of us are living for the day when Dean takes his first defeat....hate to admit it, but.....that is gonna be almost as good as seeing Bush go down.....

[seaglass]

49. It's not something I will savor though he's not my first choice

candidate. I just get really sick of the fact that we cannot discuss the candidates honestly and that's one of the reasons I think there is so much animosity between supporters of various candidates.

Most posters are afraid of admitting when their candidate makes an error or takes a position that they disagree with. This makes the opponents of the candidate even more ferocious.

If the supporters could admit their candidate is not infallible (and I mean supporters of ALL candidates) it would do a lot to disarm the attacks.

[cryofan]

48. another article on "They all laughed at me..."

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/local/state/hc-04160426.apds.m0163.bc-ct-democjan04,0,223022.story?coll=hc-headlines-local-wire

This one ends with:
"On another issue, Dean provoked laughter at one point when he pledged to balance the federal budget in "the first six years of my administration." It was a remarkable display of confidence for a politician running for a four-year term, and he seemed caught off guard when the audience laughed.

"What?" he asked with a confused look on his face."

[molly]

52. I think the confused look had to do with

1.) WTF - I will be the candidate - lordy--lordy - I am IT - HIM - I rule supreme (arrogance - pure and simple)

2.) WTF - I am so absolutley more wonderful - and mostly MORE wonderful than any of the other candidates or anyone on this planet - so OF COURSE they will elect me to a second term. I AM the incredible hulk of a candidate - didn't you see my picture on Newsweek? Besides that - my kids are LOYAL and I will COMMAND them not to vote for any other candidate - AMEN - and I command that the book of JOB is in the New Testament!

My feeling is that if - or rather - when he is NOT our candidate, he will simply fade into the forest and the trees in his beloved Vermont - where he has fought so hard to save the environment and seal his records.

[cryofan]

51. a naked-emperor kick