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I do not believe Obama should offer Clinton the VP post!

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Tim4319 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:42 AM
Original message
I do not believe Obama should offer Clinton the VP post!
I say this for a few of reasons:

1. I believe with Hillary as the second in command, Barack is going to have to deal with both Bill and Hillary. I believe they will come as a package deal. I do not believe it is fair to Barack, if/when he becomes president, to have Hillary in one ear and Bill in another.

2. I believe Barack has his own views on what he thinks is the right direction this country should be going in. I believe he should place people in positions that have similar views, and will work hard for Barack to achieve his views.

To this day, I will tell you that during my 36 years on this Earth, Bill Clinton was the best president this country has ever had. However, I once had the utmost respect for Hillary! The respect has slowly faded, seeing the type of campaign she is running. Which has me thinking that, if she is VP she may do things to sabotage Baracks presidency and then do an "I told you so!" once it's all said and done.

3. The last one is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. But, let me first say that this is the conspiracy theorist in me that is speaking. There is much debate around what actually happened to Ron Brown and Vince Foster. I am not trying to say the Clinton's has anything to do with what happened to them. But, say -- and may God forbid this to ever happen -- as president, Barack meets an untimely demise and Hillary is VP. That means she will then become president! I am sure the first thing many people in this country is going to think is _________________ ! (I let you fill in the blank.)
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Offer? She'll TAKE it if she wants it and Obama can't stop her.
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It's not Obama's decision. It's Bubba & Hillary's decision. They rule the world!!!!!
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Tim4319 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. That right there is all the reason I think it would be a bad idea!
She will go into the VP position thinking that she should be president.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Its not hers to decide
What makes you think it is?
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Nope, they can't take it.
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Except for a minor detail - delegates voting
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. That's what she says about the job of POTUS ..

and she repeatedly says that she's taking her run for POTUS to the convention. Do you say she's a bare-faced liar, or do you take her at her word?

You realize that these demands from her supporters that Obama choose her for VP flatly contradict her half-baked arguments that she's winning, that she's the best for the job, that she's "ready to lead on day 1", that Obama isn't qualified, that Obama is "an empty suit". That these demands flatly contradict the bullshit claims of her supporters (and Bill) that Obama plays the race card (and hasn't simply defended himself in reaction to slurs and innuendo), that he's a sexist, and on and on?
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KillCapitalism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. I disagree.
An Obama/Hillary ticket will draw so many voters that McCain won't stand a chance in November. We need to beat him more than anything.
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Tim4319 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I agree we need to beat McCain. I am all for that!
Edited on Fri May-23-08 08:51 AM by Tim4319
But, my question is, after Barack is president how much effort will Hillary put towards addressing some of the causes that she do not agree with?
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I think Obama is arrogant enough to think he can win without the Clintons
I also think the "Change" message losses a lot when you are bring the past in with you.

Lets be honest, the Clintons have a lot of skeletons in their closet and they are bringing a moving truck full of baggage. This didn't come up in the primaries because Obama decided not to go negative. If you think the Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers stuff was bad, wait until Hillary is part of the ticket and the rethugs will be screaming "Whitewater" "Pork Futures" "FBI Files" "Travel Office" stuff all over again.
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KillCapitalism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Well he should know this...
he can't win any of the "redneck" states like Ohio, PA, WV, or KY. Hillary on the ticket with him could pull those states in for us though.
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. There are other candidates who can deliver those states
I think he needs someone from Ohio.

If Obama carries Ohio, McCain has to win Wiconsin, Michigan, Virginia, and Indiana to win. I don't see that happening.
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Tim4319 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I've seen an interview of a woman in WVA.
She stated that she will never vote for a black man. The interview was done on CNN, I've been trying to find it on the net, but no luck. She said something like, she will never vote for a black man because she is too scared! I am pretty sure there are a lot of others in those states that feel the same way. So I believe regardless if Clinton is on the ticket or not, Obama is not going to get many of those votes.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. NOT TRUE: "much debate around Ron Brown and Vince Foster"
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. I do not believe Sisyphus should push that rock up that hill.
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Renaissance Man Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
10. Here's what he would have to contend with...
"I know I have the experience. I know that Senator McCain has the experience. Barack Obama has a speech that he made in 2002."

^ Explain to me how we're going to defeat this Republican ad. How can we counter this?
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
15. Politely stated
all three actually. Anyone who becomes VP and is somehow a wonderful alternative to hostile interests creates a presidential security risk- in this day and age in particular. The GOP choices certainly seem to make themselves bulletproof in this regard, perhaps since Teddy roosevelt snuck in via the assassin's bullet.

There is a lot of depth and other affirmations of your basic points regardless of the intent and actions of the Clintons themselves. Over and over on DU people are obsessed with the personal intent and actions of the Clintons when in fact there is a lot more breadth to the problem. That involves how they will re-ignite the GOP media circus just by being there. It involves any dissatisfied party second guessing or casting a wistful eye to the second choice so close at hand. It hobbles any practical use whatsoever that the VP spot can be put to. If moribund like many in the past, its vacuum will be all the more conspicuous, if active then given attention contrary to teamwork and all intention by anyone in the administration. And yes, it comes with the added price of a non-cabinet member like Bill possessing the exact same distraction, detriment attention problem as he would have had as First Husband(which has been granted the worrisome questioning it deserves). In effect Hillary, before her own choice of VP, has become weighed down by the same problems she would bring to Obama's ticket.

Then, there is the tremendous obstacle of commonly accepted criteria for VP candidates, where Hillary raises red flags enough to completely put her out of contention. To forestall all these personal judgments and predictions about negative personality traits and "backstabbing" potential one could brush aside this possibility fairly breezily by the math.

Which leaves us with the one big thing, at the center of which IS Hillary's personal choice and character. Many, though not the top Dems or any in the Obama camp I know of, are urging the "unity ticket" as a good thing to bring the two groups of followers together. Most of these people had a favorable impression of HRC and put the negativity in kinder perspective. There is more than personal animus at work however in the opposition of top Dems to this argument. First, there would not be unity so much as a carryover of the great divide. The negativity thus would be infecting the scars forever. The very biggest problem, Hillary's huge delegate count and remaining influence would not go meekly into the VP slot. Her very grasp and formation of delegates and base has rendered it automatically a rival to the actual Presidential nomination. She would have to work very very hard to undo this abuse of loyalty and transform it to unity. IMHO, that miracle would have to preclude forcing herself into the VP slot or even allowing herself to be considered. If she does not recognize that she herself has made the Catch-22 that has lost her both spots on the ticket, well, then we have a big problem that no small defection among her delegates will settle.

Obama has a similar hard task. First, to disabuse anyone of the notion of the unity ticket conundrum, then to heal the party. He should show strength and consistency no matter what and he has the support, thank heaven, of the party leaders. Being left really no other rational alternatives, the first stage is no problem except for their being no leading shoe in for the VP spot. We have some great unknowns and some great experienced candidates, male and female. Richardson unfortunately is someone who would be booed at during the Convention. To put himself back in contention would require the reformed good graces of the Clintons and a great speech during the early days of the Convention. Biden or Dodd, several governors, etc. Anymore dumb ideas from the media like Hagel or Bloomberg should not even be graced with a response.

The burden should be on Hillary but she has the power personally to hurt the party and Obama and keep her loyal base self-betrayed and even spitefully blind, more responsibility hers when you consider ANY loyal base of any candidate tends to go there by following their candidate's lead. I call that base abuse which crosses party and candidate campaign lines in its consistent display of symptoms and thought patterns(and mindless, self-wounding rage).

So we have the sole argument being unity but one which does not solve the larger problem of cementing the confident role of Obama AND his nervous followers. It is amazing to watch the transformation of some from thin-skinned to thick headed once vulnerability and doubt angrily denied becomes unapproachable power and pride. Hillary's followers, denied and not led even yet toward a facsimile of reasonable reconciliation also need a lot. There is no easy answer either Hillary or Obama can fluff off or find a single answer as has happened in the past. It all devolves on Hillary but Obama is the nominee. A very problematic situation.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
16. My opinion...
is that everybody that has a really strong opinion about this - one way or another - is giving into irrational fear.
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Mike L Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. I agree HRC shouldn't be BO's VP. She doesn't need to be on a losing team. em
Edited on Fri May-23-08 02:26 PM by Mike L
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