Did notable female leaders - (Thatcher, Meir, Ghandi etc.) ride to power on a horse named "Sexism"?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

I don't think so.

They had a larger battle, and tremendous odds, but that is not the horse that carried them to their personal triumphs.

[Darth_Kitten]

1. I guess you missed Women's History 101.

n/t

Uh, sexism isn't a little thing....maybe you'll get it one day.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. Nobody said it wasn't a big deal.

The OP is referring to Hillary blaming sexism (instead of campaign strategy) for her 2nd-place finish.

[AZBlue]

28. Obviously, maybe you'll get it one day.

Sexism is a big deal and many of us don't like the way Hillary Clinton has promoted and encouraged it.

[hokies4ever]

32. You completely ignored the question

and changed the topic.

[cbayer]

3. There is a big difference.

They were selected by a parliamentary system. That is, they were elected locally, then selected by the leaders in their party. They did not have to go to the general electorate. There are few women that have had to face a general election to obtain the highest seat in a nation. It's a much different process. There have been very few women in those kinds of positions. This campaign has been groundbreaking.

[anigbrowl]

7. Thatcher was in opposition when she became leader of her party.

She returned the conservatives to power in 1979, and became Britain's first (and so far only) woman Prime Minister.

[cbayer]

14. That is correct.

But she did not have to run in a general election. She was selected by the elected leadership within her own party. It would be similar to just having the super-delegates of the democratic party selecting the POTUS.

[chascarrillo]

8. There's a few governors that would like to have a word with you.

[cbayer]

15. "Few" being the operative word here.

Women are certainly not proportionally represented among Governors in this country. Those that have made it most likely have stories to tell about how sexism made their elections even harder than they would have been.

Show me a country where a woman has been elected by the general populace to the highest position.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

16. Well, this is a great website I found the other day

We can all look through it and become more informed

http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/women_heads_of_governments.htm

[cbayer]

20. Great link.

The difference is that "ministers" and "chancellors" have a very different path. It is one thing to get elected locally, work closely with the people in your party and then be chosen to lead your party. I found that although sexism existed when I was running for offices within my own group, it was nothing compared to the sexism I encountered when I had to run among people that did not know me or had not seen me at work.

[chascarrillo]

18. Philippines: President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo.

Current president, elected by the general populace in 2004.

[cbayer]

19. Thank you. I've been looking for one.

It's a rare event. Women that rise to power within their own party have a much different experience than those that have to go before the general population. It's a rare event so far in history. While the world is full of men of many colors holding positions of power, there are very few women who obtained that seat by taking their case to the people.

[anigbrowl]

22. Ireland, twice (two different women).

[cbayer]

26. Good one.

Phillipines and Argentina also. There are a few. I don't know much about any of these, but it would be interesting to look at the role sexism did or did not play in their elections. The female-male dynamics in all three of those countries are very different.

[NC_Nurse]

9. How about Angela Merkel of Germany? That was an election, wasn't it?

[cbayer]

13. Nope, the Chancellor of Germany is also selected using a parliamentary system. nt.

[chascarrillo]

23. What you're missing here is this: Very few countries directly elect their Presidents/Prime Ministers

I think you're tragically excluding a lot of powerful women by trivializing their accomplishments.

By the way: Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, current President of Argentina. Elected by the populace last year.

[cbayer]

25. I do not miss the point nor do I trivialize their accomplishments.

I merely wish to point out that it is a very different experience to be selected by those with whom you work closely than it is to take your case to the general populace.

Someone also posted that the President of the Phillipines was elected by the general populace. There are very, very few examples, though they do exist.

This country has elected a few women locally but never even a Vice President in the GE. The women with the most power were selected from within their own ranks. There is less general intolerance at that level than there is in the general population. They have accomplished much and I honor them.

[anigbrowl]

4. Love her or hater, nobody would ever accuse Thatcher of playing the victim.

Personally I can't stand her, but that's because she's a hard-core conservative.

[Raine]

5. Agreed

and they succeeded without playing the victim card. x(

[chascarrillo]

6. No, but they actually had qualifications for their jobs, so it's not a fair comparison.

[AllentownJake]

10. Nope

They never hid from the fact they were woman but they never used it as an excuse for their own failures.

[JimGinPA]

11. Ding Ding Ding...

Winner!

[AllentownJake]

12. Actually

What Hillary is doing right now would make those women sick. They never ever claimed to speak for all women either. They spoke for their countries not as a woman. These were girls who could beat the boys at their own game without having to have any excuses made for them.

[Buck Rabbit]

17. All three fought a war once they took office.

Not pertinent to the question in your OP but an interesting fact.

[Straight Shooter]

21. Golda Meir, very interesting and complex woman.

The first female head of state in the Western world and one of the most influential women in modern history, Golda Meir was a member of the tiny coterie of founders of the State of Israel, the architect of its socialist infrastructure, and its most tenacious international defender. Her uncompromising devotion to shaping and defending a Jewish homeland against dogged enemies and skittish allies stunned political contemporaries skeptical about the stamina of an elderly leader, and transformed Middle Eastern politics for decades to follow.

A blend of Emma Goldman and Martin Luther King Jr. in the guise of a cookie-serving grandmother, Meir was a tough-as-nails politician who issued the first prescient warnings about the rise of international terrorism, out-maneuvered Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger at their own game of realpolitik, and led Israel through a bloody war even as she eloquently pleaded for peace. A prodigious fundraiser and persuasive international voice, Golda carried the nation through its most perilous hours while she herself battled cancer.

... a vivid portrait of a legendary woman defined by contradictions: an iron resolve coupled with magnetic charm, an utter ordinariness of appearance matched to extraordinary achievements, a kindly demeanor that disguised a stunning hard-heartedness, and a complete dedication to her country that often overwhelmed her personal relationships.

http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061647222/Golda/index.aspx

[Kool Kitty]

30. Funny, but that was the first thing

I thought of in regards to Thatcher-her war. Love your avatar. What ever happened to "Life Is Hell"?

[ShadowLiberal]

24. Sexism played a minor role in her defeat, the GOP and her poor campaign did her in

Sexism is a minor part of Hillary's problem, but I'll get to that in a moment.

One thing that I believe hurt Hillary a lot is her reputation from being in politics for so long. She's just been demonized by the right wing for two decades as basically being the evil liberal demon they must stop at all costs. While not many republicans voted in the democratic primary, what others think of you is going to be an issue in politics. If I was trying to decide between three primary candidates to run in a general election, and saw one of them had negatives as high as 50%, while the others had negatives like 20 points lower then that, then I definitely would not pick the high negative candidate. It's basically committing suicide if something like 6/10's of the voters say "There's no way I'd ever vote for ", and you run in the general election anyway (Hillary's negatives weren't as high as 60% yeah, but 50% is uncomfortably close for me).

The other big thing that hurt Hillary is all of her poor campaign decisions, she recruited so many useless people, like Mark Penn, and had terrible strategies, like ignoring the states that she didn't think she could win (as in the caucus states). I read an article somewhere that early on Penn suggested they score early wins of places like California and it's 400+ delegates so they can say "we have a 400 delegate lead, this contest is over" (Penn being foolish enough not to realize at first that it was proportional allocation), and still not changing their strategy when finding out otherwise.

Sexism was just a minor problem, if anything sexism probably HELPED Hillary more then hurt her in the primary I'd say, simply because of her strong base of women supporting her simply because she's a woman, in a general election though, she would have more problems with sexism.

Another problem with sexism that didn't get to hurt Hillary is women running as liberal candidates tend to not do as well, since people view them as more liberal then they actually are, simply because they're a woman. Conservative women on the other hand are viewed as more moderate then they actually are, simply because they're a woman.

But there is some sexism that hurt Hillary some. The GOP had already made this evil Hillary demon image, painting her as cold and calculating, and when you're viewed as calculating you can't do anything to get rid of that image without being viewed as... calculating.

There are some double standards with sexism that hurt her, like being angry for example, when a guy sounds angry, it can be alright if they're talking about the right thing, but for women if they sound angry it can just come off as bitchy. I noticed this when Hillary was on the news going "shame on you Obama", the first thing I thought when I heard her say this was "she sounds like a parent lecturing a child". Other problems are women being viewed as more emotional, you've got to be enough of a real person to appeal to voters, but if you work on making yourself look tough and not weak and emotional then you get called cold, like Hillary did.

[blue panther]

27. There has been sexism against Clinton

Among the misogynist instances are--as cited by Marie Cocco of the Washington Post-- the following:

•  Popular T-shirt calling Hillary a "hoe".
•  A group called C.U.N.T bashing Hillary.
•  Airport concessions selling the Hillary Nutcracker, a device in which a pantsuit-clad Clinton doll opens her legs to reveal stainless steel thighs that, well, bust nuts. I won't miss television and newspaper stories that make light of the novelty item.
•  Randi Rhodes calling Clinton big f'ing wh**e (yes, women can be sexist too).
•  Comedian going on TV telling the now-famous joke: "Obama did great in February, and that's because that was Black History Month. And now Hillary's doing much better 'cause it's White B---- Month, right?"
•  Chris Matthews.
Etc.

http://www.postwritersgroup.com/archives/cocc080513.htm

[hokies4ever]

34. What did Hillary do about it?

Where was her big gender speech? Or is she the kind of person to stand idly by while injustices are perpetrated? Great, another so-called 'leader' who watches instead of acts. All talk and no substance.

[curious one]

29. Can't you see what she is doing? She is blaming everyone for her failure.

This has nothing to do with sexism. Please do not compare her with other great women in the history.

[ShortnFiery]

31. Nope, none of them implied, at any point in time, that they were being treated unfairly.

These women were LEADERS who beat "the ol' boys" at their own political game.

They didn't feign indignation nor act self-righteous like HRC.

HRC shames our gender for her complete LACK of grace and integrity. :thumbsdown:

[hokies4ever]

33. Hillary isn't half the lady that Benazir Bhutto was

bless her heart, it's too bad that her life ended early, otherwise she would be the leader of Pakistan right now. In a place where women's rights are constantly neglected, she always championed for women and didn't stoop down to these complaining levels that Hillary has. She must be rolling over in her grave right now if she is watching Hillary's conduct on the campaign trail.