If someone posts a lie about Hillary, others buy it, and post ten more threads...

[Maddy McCall]

based on that LIE.

Hillary Clinton is NOT $31 million dollars on debt.

Yet someone who evidently can't read large numbers, much less a spreadsheet, claims such, and the lie grows by others posting lies based on the original lie.

Here's the thing. We don't know what Clinton's financial situation looks like tonight. We don't have enough information tonight, but we probably will tomorrow.

But don't let the truth stop y'all from spreading the lies.

And this from the people who've lectured Hillary supporters on "the math."

:eyes:

[WA98296]

1. We see now that her campaign LIED about 10M after PA = FRAUD

Bosnia = More Lies

I'm sick of her BS

[emilyg]

2. Then don't vote for her.

[leftofcool]

4. Oh please,

How do you know how much money Hillary has? Got a crystal ball, a dowsing rod maybe? Shhesh, you bambi nuts are all alike, same broken record, no thought of your own.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. no, we dont' see that

that's another lie that's spreading here like wildfire.

[anigbrowl]

25. Oh yes we do (with numbers)

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M5/C00431569/A_DATE_C00431569.html

April 01, 2008 71,418.79
April 02, 2008 189,854.92
April 03, 2008 186,973.37
April 04, 2008 179,922.87
April 05, 2008 286,461.84
April 06, 2008 122,374.03
April 07, 2008 274,365.92
April 08, 2008 320,460.76
April 09, 2008 584,038.49
April 10, 2008 439,132.42
April 11, 2008 149,963.19
April 12, 2008 182,003.61
April 13, 2008 54,795.14
April 14, 2008 127,429.04
April 15, 2008 330,311.65
April 16, 2008 591,464.93
April 17, 2008 347,865.51
April 18, 2008 400,893.35
April 19, 2008 102,681.44
April 20, 2008 58,556.17
April 21, 2008 133,441.71
April 22, 2008 226,294.60
April 23, 2008 1,738,154.61
April 24, 2008 2,578,730.28 << Clinton's website said they took in $10 million in the 24 hours after PA
April 25, 2008 787,048.99
April 26, 2008 314,722.71
April 27, 2008 126,573.57
April 28, 2008 203,280.36
April 29, 2008 432,857.69
April 30, 2008 9,504,619.08 << All the campaigns get illusory bumps on the last day of the month due to accounting reconciliations

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/24/hillary-clinton-raises-10_n_98428.html for one example of the $10 million story.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. You're entirely ignorant

of how accounting is done.

Stop before you embarrass yourself.

[anigbrowl]

44. You're BSing. Otherwise, you'd offer an explanation.

[Zueda]

92. Monkey does what monkey sees. n/t

[intaglio]

64. So Mr Morain of the LA Times is ignorant of accounting

Please see my reply below and apologise

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6056020&mesg_id=6057060

/edit spelling

[PBS Poll-435]

102. It might be time to take that crow out of the oven.

It's chow time!

[TahitiNut]

104. You want an apology from MonkeyFu*k?? Really? Are you series?

:rofl: :rofl:

[intaglio]

63. Please see my post below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6056020&mesg_id=6057060

[ossman]

3. That should be the least of your worries

[leftofcool]

6. Hillary supporters are not worried

but you Bambi supporters sure seem to be

[cliffordu]

27. That's true....math has never been the Hillary groupie strong suit....

[MonkeyFunk]

30. LOL

And you guys are taking the word of a woman who thinks 193,492,741.31 is $19 million.

Big numbers are hard.

[intaglio]

67. Please see my reply below and apologise

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6056020&mesg_id=6057060

/edit spelling

[MonkeyFunk]

106. No, but

perhaps now that the truth is out, you'll apologize to me and Maddy?

[Enrique]

5. everything's ok if it's against Clinton

she's so BAD that we all have a license to do whatever we please if it's against her.

[ossman]

8. would you like some cheese with that whine?

[MonkeyFunk]

12. It's whining

to point out that stupid people who can't do simple math are spreading lies here?

[ossman]

15. I wasnt replying to you. The post I replied to was whining

[Enrique]

22. I wasn't whining either

I was noticing that people have let themselves behave badly, and excused it on Hillary's badness.

[ossman]

24. but Hillary hasn't been acting bad, eh?

[Enrique]

26. thank you

you've provided a nice example.

[ossman]

31. oh, you must be racist then. Since you dont have a picture of Obama.

[Enrique]

37. ?

:shrug:

[intaglio]

68. Please see my post below and apologise

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6056020&mesg_id=6057060

[SwampG8r]

98. he was responding to the whiner

the poo flinger posts will be about you

[Doityourself]

71. ...offer some milk to Hilly's champions instead..it settles the stomach much better..

[Swamp Rat]

7. Incoming sniper fire!

:hide:

:D

[goldcanyonaz]

9. They hate us and the message has come in LOUD and CLEAR

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofcool]

17. That why you support Obama?

He is a fraud and there is a sucker born every minute.

[writes3000]

18. The name-calling really, really, really doesn't help anyone. n/t

[dorktv]

20. 2nd, please people, civility costs us nothing!

Just have ice cream or turnips or whatever instead!

[goldcanyonaz]

21. and tweekers steal, are you a tweeker?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bhikkhu]

16. 30 million was my first read. It appears to be incorrect.

The correct figure appears to be 19 million.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. including her personal loans

so it's > one million dollar less than last month's debt.

She has REDUCED her debt in April.

[bhikkhu]

34. Disbursements = 28 mil, Receipts = 21 mil

That seems to reflect a $7 million increase in debt?

On edit - not debt necessarily, but negative cash flow. Neither are particularly good, depending upon asset balances.

And upon further reflection...wtf does this have to do with politics, really? Symptom of a too-long primary....

[casus belli]

40. No, there's an actual disbursement column for that.

27 a-c, and the figure is 0. She hasn't paid off any debts and she added at least 2 million to her existing debt.

[msallied]

42. Wow... so much for reducing her debt, if these figures are correct.

[casus belli]

45. Yep.

I mean, 20 million isn't shabby fundraising by any means. I'll grant her that. But when she's spending 22 million, let's just say it isn't going to get any better for her from here on out.

[msallied]

47. After seeing the numbers posted earlier of the money coming from D.C. establishment...

I can't say I feel sorry for the lobbyists who jumped into the money pit.

[Youphemism]

108. A really minor point...

Not that it matters a whole lot, and especially not to alienate someone who clearly seems to be supporting her candidate without trying to sabotage the process, but this note -- from within the text of the LA Times retraction, suggests that she's added to that debt:

Additionally, campaign officials said the New York senator gave herself another $1.4 million loan in May, producing a total current debt of $20.88 million. But the latest loan that occurred in May will not show up on finance filings until next month.

[dailykoff]

23. If Hillary said it, it's a lie.

Bank on it.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[intaglio]

70. Please read the post below and apologise

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6056020&mesg_id=6057060

[shayes51]

58. Even when she said Obama was qualified

to be POTUS?

[msallied]

29. The 30 mill does appear to be an error; however,

Being $19 million in the red, even if it is money she owes herself, is not exactly a shining beacon of a well-run campaign, now is it?

[MonkeyFunk]

35. so she REDUCED her debt in April

and people are running around here claiming she somehow gained millions in debt. It's just a lie, and people shouldn't be so quick to believe everything they read from people who can't read big numbers.

[msallied]

41. Too little, too late. She's scrabbling out of a hole she never should have dug for herself.

Does not erase bad management and financial decisions made by her campaign. If she breaks even by the end, good for her. It's the only viable reason for her to even put up the illusion of fighting for the nomination. And if people are stupid enough to send her their hard-earned money when she's got a personal fortune of her own, I pity the fool.

[casus belli]

46. No, she didn't.

Total receipts this period: 20931870.78

Totsl Disbursements this period: 22372765.27

Simple subtraction.

[NewHampshireDem]

48. But if she paid off a debt, wouldn't that add to her disbursements?

She did have cash on hand at the start of the month, and she seems to have about $2 million less on hand than at the start (see my post below).

[casus belli]

49. Yes..

10. Cash on Hand at CLOSE of the Reporting Period 29,666,453.10
6. Cash on Hand at BEGINNING of the Reporting Period - 31,711,745.93
-2,045,292.83

7. Total Receipts This Period 26,911,626.98
9. Total Disbursements This Period - 28,956,919.81
-2,045,292.83

So she was 2 million short and paid for it out of her cash on hand. Her unpaid debts are about 19 million, it's not clear how much of her cash on hand is for the GE, which would make it unusable by her campaign to pay off debts incurred during the primary.

[Doityourself]

74. No. It isn't. Her campaign has been run like shit from jump street. Worse in modern history

according to many and will be studied for years to come on how not run a campaign and what not to do...

[whistler162]

32. Like a friend who borrows your and phones your with good news

and bad news. Good news your car didn't burn up, bad news a crane moving a trailer container dropped the container on your car.

$31 million or $9 plus what she owes herself, ain't no difference.

Don't want a President who can't handle her campaign finances. We have been there and don't need it again.

[msallied]

36. Sure is a good thing Obama handles his money so well.

He doesn't have millions of dollars he can constantly loan himself when his campaign is running a lil low... lol

[MonkeyFunk]

39. There's a huge difference

between reducing your debt (as Clinton did) and increasing it by 10 million.

[NewHampshireDem]

43. Okay, that would be a good thing

But, as I read the statement she has $2 million dollars less cash on hand as well.

(That's line 6 under summary versus line 10 under summary.) :shrug:

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M5/C00431569.html

[oldleftguy]

38. Wake up Comrades!

Whoever selects the next Supreme Court Justice(s) had better be a Democratic President, or we can all kiss this Country goodbye!

[leftofcool]

52. Green mode?

[cboy4]

50. The Obama fan accountants will disagree with your figures,

naturally.

Anything they can come up with to stop the voting. :eyes:

[NewHampshireDem]

51. Is that the only song you know?

There are three primaries left--two of which Obama should win handily. So, please tell me why it's about 'stopping the voting'.

[cboy4]

53. Yea, it's been my favorite song since the 2000 election and

it's the main work-out track on my iPod.

And until you can tell me Obama will win handily (in which case, I will need next week's Super Lotto numbers for proof of your extra-sensory perception), I think we should vote. :kick:

[bowens43]

54. nd if someone posts the truth about hillary, her supporters call it a lie.......

[bridgit]

55. Welcome to Obama's base...

Trading smirk for smug :patriot:

[Spider Jerusalem]

56. Yes, she is:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/clintondebt.html

I'd suggest you learn basic mathematics.

[Vinca]

57. Pssst . . . they're doing Hillary math. nt

[Maddy McCall]

59. I'll go with the AP over a blog. AP verifies that she isn't 31 mil in debt...

but her debt load remained what it was the previous month, give or take a mil.

Snip/

But Clinton reported only about $8 million cash on hand for the primary. (She has $22 million set aside for the general election that she can't use.) She also reported $19.5 million in debts, including $10 million she has lent her campaign. Even without the loan, Clinton was in negative cash position. The loan amount also did not include an extra $1.4 million she put into her campaign in May.

Clinton did not add to her debt to vendors, who include such campaign consultants as Mark Penn and Mandy Grunwald. But she had to ramp up her spending, with a majority of it devoted to traveling and getting her message to voters. She spent more than $9 million on ads alone.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iU_P23eyGmxqE8EEa7ba6r86BpIwD90PT1680

[Mother Of Four]

80. Maddy you know I respect you...

However- in that AP article it states this:

(SNIP)
Financially, the month tracked the three candidates' political fortunes. Clinton beat Obama in Pennsylvania on April 22 and saw a $10 million surge in donations in a 24-hour period. But money and the delegates needed for the nomination still flowed primarily to Obama.
(SNIP)

But when you look at the financial disclosures that have been posted ad nauseam on the board in the last 12 hours there isn't a day she got 10 million. Certainly not as her campaign said the day or two after PA. I won't post a link here because the links been beaten to death.

Suffice it to say, until a good accountant gets ahold of the information and actually takes the time to number crunch we really can't be sure how much is owed or on hand.

Frankly, I really don't see why people are beating this till it tries to crawl.

[yourguide]

82. Maddy, it's not rocket science.

Again, take the debt listed in debt by vendor (19.5 mil) try to find the loan in debt by vendor (not there). Add the loan to debts by vendor and that gets you to 31 mil.

[MonkeyFunk]

105. No, she's not

Maddy was right all along.

[MethuenProgressive]

60. That's the way DU works. A fake HillHate 'outrage' thread gets 65 recs, is debunked, gets 65 more.

DU once had thoughtful members. What happened?

[Perry Logan]

61. Clintophobes are easily the biggest liars in this sector of the universe.

They love to start threads accusing Hillary of some new LIE!, where LIE! and LYING! and LIAR! are always in all caps.

And--as others in this thread have noted--the accusations invariably get disproved, sometimes with the first post. But this has no effect whatsoever on the Clinton-haters. They are as crazy as loons and not overly bright.

[intaglio]

62. LA Times

Headline Money shocker! Hillary Clinton's campaign debt soars to $31 million
snip/... numbers crunched early this morning by The Times' campaign finance guru, Dan Morain.

snip/... Debts $19.5 million
snip/... Loans $11.4 Million

snip/... she spent $28.9 million, nearly $8 million more than she took in

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/clintondebt.html

Please read, mark, learn - and inwardly digest because someone who does know how to deal with big numbers proves you to be mislead by the campaign you do so much to support, Maddie. So please do not call such DUers liars until you learn simple arithmetic.

[tekisui]

65. So, she's $31 million in debt?

Disgusting. What a horrible money manager. She keeps throwing good money after bad, not knowing when to stop, just digging a deeper hole of debt.

She is not fit to serve as President with such piss poor management.

[intaglio]

87. Cannot edit this but by one report the LA Times

will correct this item - My apologies if I am incorrect

[helderheid]

97. beat me to it

[yourguide]

66. HRC supporters arent so good at math...

Copy and paste the debt by vendor page into a spreadsheet then total it. That's 19.5 million, NOW try and find the loan to herself on that spreadsheet...it's not there. Now add in the loan.

Instead of berating other posters try doing some math.

[Doityourself]

69. Fact is she is in debt. She's broke. She's busted. Her campaign is in the red. Bottom line.

[indimuse]

72. GO Maddy!

k&R

[indimuse]

73. GO Maddy!

k&R

[yourguide]

76. keep K & Ring an incorrect post...

do

the

math

total the debts in the debts by vendor total...19.5 mil, look down that list for her loan, it's not listed there. add the loan in and you have the total debt.

[tekisui]

79. Keep kicking. The Clinton Bubble Brigade looks foolish. She's $31 million in Debt.

[mdmc]

75. I thought the debt was under 20 mill...

I know her campaign once acknowledged being 20 mill in the hole.

[scheming daemons]

77. Maddy needs to issue a retraction. The numbers are out. She's $31 million in debt.

Maddy's OP was a lie.

[Maddy McCall]

88. Wrongo. LA Times just issued a retraction.

Damn, I'm an historian, and I can do better math than the LA Times' political campaign funds expert.

My OP is as correct right now as it was when I posted it.

[mdmc]

103. She is 20 mill in debt?

:shrug:

[BuyingThyme]

78. This would be much easier if she used balance sheets instead

of spread sheets, like everybody else.

[JimGinPA]

81. Let Me Get This Straight - A HRC Supporter Accuses People Of Lying, Based On A Lie?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/clintondebt.html

Priceless!

:rofl:

[chascarrillo]

83. Maddy, I truly think an apology would be a good thing to consider.

[Maddy McCall]

89. For being right?

No, I don't apologize when I'm right.

[chascarrillo]

93. No, for being an asshole.

You were really rude.

[Joe the Revelator]

84. Are you going to aplogize for calling people "liars" when you were obviously wrong?

How about it Maddy?

[Maddy McCall]

90. LOL...you still have time to edit.

[Seabiscuit]

85. K&R!

[DevonRex]

86. It's over honey child. Over. nt

[Yanez Houston Jordan]

91. Let's test your threory: "PSST: HILLARY ONCE KILLED A HOBO IN VEGAS, PASS IT ON!"

[SeaLyons]

94. K&R

[DemExpat]

95. Kick and Recommend.

:kick:

DemEx

[Hoof Hearted]

96. It's the new politics of hope and unity and arugula Maddy.

Same old shit, custom Balani wrapper.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

99. I can't say I agree with calling people here liars

It was reported as such and it was an error. It's been corrected and posting said correction would be more productive than name calling.

Just my opinion. Not that it matters much since GDP is not know for it's fairness or diplomacy by the majority of it's posters. It's more like an on going grudge match between rival gangs.

[Occam Bandage]

100. She isn't 31 back, no. She's only $20M in the hole. So, er, great!

[Bread and Circus]

101. She's 20 million dollars in debt. It's still really bad. She has shown poor executive skills.

If she can't balance a campaign budget, then how the fuck is she going to save our economy?

[Shae]

107. Oh, grow up.

It was a mathematical error that was retracted as soon as it was discovered.
Okay, her campaigns only 20 million dollars in debt.

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

109. Spreads like a lierus.