The Real Cost of Sexism

[last1standing]

This is a repost of a thread I wrote April 10, 2008. I thought it would be appropriate tonight.


I've seen plenty of my fellow Obama supporters stating that there's no sexism at play in this election but I've never agreed with them.

I've seen plenty of Clinton supporters stating that most Obama supporters are sexist and I've certainly never agreed with that.

I think the real sexism running rampant in this campaign happened six years ago when Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War Resolution against her better judgment and against her previously stated beliefs. She voted for IWR because she felt that a woman couldn't be seen as weak on military issues and have a chance at the presidency. She became a hawk on military matters even though that ran not only against her beliefs but against the beliefs of her constituency, the state of New York.

The problem is, I can fully understand why she did it. She's an ambitious person, like most politicians. She had a goal that she felt could only be obtained by voting for a bill she didn't honestly agree with. I'm sure she, like most people at the time, thought the war would be quick and precise, with little bloodshed.

None of this excuses her vote, but it does provide a glimpse into the cost of real sexism. If Clinton had voted her conscience, instead of pandering to the bigotry of sexism, she would likely be the Democratic nominee at this moment. Unfortunately, she made an incredible lapse in judgment that has helped cause hundreds of thousands of deaths and the perpetual misery of untold millions.

Very few of those who support Obama over Clinton are sexists just as very few who support Clinton over Obama are racists.

The real sexism is what caused a good person to support a war she never honestly believed in.

And the cost of that sexism is steep.

[islandmkl]

1. "The real sexism..."

is when one is not true to oneself...possibly because one is out of touch with what one TRULY believes, deep inside...

'The devil made me do it'...is fundamental bullshit at its most base...

If one does not have the strength OF THEIR OWN CONVICTIONS to guide them...

I don't want them guiding me...

[Binka]

5. The ULTIMATE Sexism Is That Hillary Did Not REBUKE Bill For His Affairs

How dare she cry sexism now, when she didn't shout that in Bills face for being a serial cheat?

"when one is not true to oneself...possibly because one is out of touch with what one TRULY believes, deep inside"

[ShortnFiery]

19. To hell with my future career, I'd have physically kicked Bill's adulterous ass all the way down

Pennsylvania Avenue. Then I would have sued him for divorce and TAKEN him for all he was worth. HRC's an veritable HERO for male serial adulterers every DAMN where. HRC's political ambitions HAVE ALWAYS trumped her sense of morality. :thumbsdown:

[Binka]

20. Damn I Love You!

:loveya: Shit Fire if Hillary had done what you said she would have been President for life. She is a narcissistic manipulative coward.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Sorry no sale

She should have done the right thing by now anyway and apologized for that vote. Her failure to apologize speaks volumes.

[last1standing]

4. I'm not trying to excuse her, just understand her rationale.

n/t

[hfojvt]

11. I don't buy it though

I think she really is a hawk, just like Lieberman, and just like Bill spent most of his two terms regularly bombing Iraq.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

25. Not a hawk, not a dove..

Shes a mocking bird... She will sing whatever tune benefits her..

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I know

I just don't agree. Like I said, she has had many opportunities to apologize for her vote, as many in Congress have done.

[EffieBlack]

3. Excellent point.

Sexism and racism have ramifications far beyond what many people assume. Many people believe that racism and sexism mostly impact the targets of the discrimination. But they don't often look beyond that to see the much farther-ranging impact that sexism and racism have on our society and everyone in it.

For example, whenever I hear someone get up in arms because they believe they have been wrongly accused of being racist or sexist, I can't help but see that they are in some ways being victimized - not by the person who believed they are something they are not, but by the fact that racism and sexism still exist in our society to such a degree that it leads people to see it where it may not actually dwell.

In your example, many male Senators and Members also voted for the war in order not to appear to be soft. But there was a big difference. Men likely approached it as follows: "I'd better vote yes so that I don't look weak." On the other hand, women (especially one who wanted to run for president) probably approached it this way, "So I'd better vote yes so that I'll look strong."

In other words, the woman starts with a built-in disadvantage - a need to overcome a preconceived presumption about her ability or inability to be tough.

[last1standing]

7. You've got it. Racism and sexism affect everyone, even white men.

Until we mature enough as a society to look beyond the superficial, all of us will suffer, whether we know it or not.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. So then why'd she recently attack anti-war protest movements?

Sorry, I ain't buying it.

[last1standing]

8. Because, in her mind, she has to look tough.

That's why she was downing shots in PA and voted for Kyle-Lieberman. Her belief that she needs to look tougher than her opponents is driving much of her campaign even now.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Uh huh.

Is that how she'd run a presidency too?

[last1standing]

10. Probably, yes.

It was her campaign that turned me to Obama after Edwards dropped out. I don't believe she makes the right decisions for the right reasons in too many instances.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. When did she do that?

I hadn't heard about any recent incidents.

[dsomuah]

14. Interesting comment

Beyond her Iraq War vote, the other thing that comes to mind is her obliterate Iran statement.

But it's funny you should say that, but now that you mention it, it seems to me like there have been quite a lot of female world leaders who have gone out of their way to look tough, the obvious one that comes to mind is Margaret Thatcher, the "Iron Lady". But others like Golda Meir, Angela Merkel, and Benazir Bhutto come to mind as well.

On the other hand, there have been plenty of females who have run countries without trying to look tough. Sukarnoputri(sp??) in Indonesia comes to mind, Helen Clark in New Zealand, Sonia Ghandi.

(Incidentally, I think a lot of Clinton supporters tend to forget that while this may be the first time a female is running to lead the USA, many other countries around the world have already had female leaders - including several predominantly muslim ones - and Hillary's campaign isn't the world-changing movement they sometimes make it out to be.)

But my point is, I don't know if we have enough info to draw a hypothesis here. It's possible that Hillary is being tough because as a woman she feels she needs to show she is tough. But it's also possible that she is just showing her DLC roots as an economic liberal and foreign policy conservative. The DLC did after all endorse the war in Iraq for a long time. It's possible that Benazir Bhutto was just trying to act tough, but it's just as probable, that she just hates Al-Quaeda.

Just my two cents.

[hughee99]

15. This really sums up my biggest issue with Hillary

when given the choice between doing what she believes to be the right thing (which is also the thing her constituents want her to do), and doing what she believes is best for her, personally, she will do what's best for herself.

[BlooInBloo]

16. So her vote is everyone's fault but hers. Are you SERIOUS??? LOLOL!!!

[last1standing]

18. You should know me better than that.

It's completely her fault because she internalized what she saw as other people's prejudice. It's the equivalent of taking a swing at someone because you THOUGHT they were going to hit you. It doesn't matter if they were or weren't, you still threw the first punch.

[ShortnFiery]

17. NOTHING caused HRC to support the Iraqi invasion except her own craven ambitions and

to put it simply: HRC and Bill Clinton are megalomaniacs. They BELIEVE that they are "above the rest of us peons" in both America and The World.

They disgust me. :nuke:

[last1standing]

21. We can try to understand motivations or we can just hate others.

Personally, I think that just hating is what got us into the troubles were in today already. why don't we try it the other way for once?

[Mimosa]

22. 'Why can't a woman be more like a man?'

I can hear Professor Higgin's lament as I type.

Last1standing, you nailed it.I was a feminist activist way back when. I quit calling myself feminist when the 'movement' left me. The zeitgist of the mid 80's thru 2000 meant women transformed themselves into tough-talking, hardass ersatz versions of what they only think men are, as if feminine qualities were not of equal value.

Since Hillary was on the Intelligence Committee in the Senate I, an anti-war activist from way back when, believed that the threat from Iraq must have been DIRE for Hillary to vote to authorise the President to go to war. Now I know she was just going along to get along and i hold her (rightfully, I believe) in contempt.

Yes, the cost of sexism is steep.

[last1standing]

23. Thanks. Not too many agreeing with me but that's OK.

The hatred runs deep in this election cycle and it seems a lot of posters can't get past it to look at why things happen the way they do. It's a shame, you can never really defeat your enemy until you know them.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

24. Um, no...

"I think the real sexism running rampant in this campaign happened six years ago when Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War Resolution against her better judgment and against her previously stated beliefs. She voted for IWR because she felt that a woman couldn't be seen as weak on military issues and have a chance at the presidency. She became a hawk on military matters even though that ran not only against her beliefs but against the beliefs of her constituency, the state of New York."

--

She voted for it because it was the politically 'smart' thing at the time. Many men and women went along with that abrogation of constitutional responsibility because it was seen as political suicide to oppose it.

She did not pander to bigotry and sexism she pandered for votes!

"Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), Wyden (D-OR)."

Seems Boxer managed to overcome it, Hillary let her ambition steer her towards the easy vote *as did many democratic Men who, according to your logic, had no such pressure.

The problem is not that Hillary voted for a war she did not support, the problem is Hillary will support whatever is good for Hillary..