I'm not going to sit down and watch ANYBODY marginalize my grandson's dreams and aspirations

[kpete]

In an interview with National Journal's Linda Douglas, Rep. James Clyburn gives the corollary to the argument that Barack Obama faces a deficit with white working class males.

I'm not going to sit down and watch anybody marginalize my grandson's dreams and aspirations

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/clyburn_would_clinton_get_only.php


. I'm very proud of what Barack Obama's done. When I sat in those jails back in the '60s in South Carolina -- dreaming about growing up, dreaming about becoming an adult, dreaming about having children and grandchildren -- I now have a 14-year-old grandson, and he is very proud of Barack Obama. I'm not going to sit down and watch anybody marginalize my grandson's dreams and aspirations. And I'm not going to see anybody go out and just absolutely nullify the energy and time that my daughter, youngest daughter, put into Barack Obama's race. This young lady started going to his office at 5 o'clock in the afternoon, every day after work, staying there to 11, 12 o'clock at night, and apologized to me for having to follow her heart for fear that it might disrupt my neutrality.

So when I look at this daughter of mine, I look at this grandson of mine, and see the pride in their faces -- I'm just not going to have anybody just tamping that down, and so that's why I spoke up. Because I'm going home on weekends, and I go to these college campuses, as I will be this weekend -- I'm going to Voorhees (College) and do the commencement there, I'm going to Tuskegee in Alabama and do commencement there on Sunday -- these young people are looking at me, saying, are you graybeards in this party getting ready to go into some room somewhere and nullify everything we did in this campaign?

[DJ13]

1. An enthusiastic K&R

Excellent post!

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. I am sorry. This race should not be about race. He should not be chosen because he is black

And that is what Clyburn is suggesting. That African Americans have worked so hard and should not be denied. Well, I have worked hard to, and I would think that he should not be picked just because he is black.

They are nearly tied.

[Willo]

4. No worries. He's not. nt

[pdxmom]

6. No, his message is not that he should be chosen because he's black. You

totally misread his point and show the gap in your understanding. He's saying that Obama has worked hard and run and great campaign, and should not be marginalized just because he's black. Hillary has made this end game totally about race. Clyburn is pointing out that this is her only argument at this point, and that race shouldn't be the reason to vote for or against anyone.

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. Oh stop the insults There is no "gap" in my understanding.

I read the highlighted portion of the article that clearly states: "these young people are looking at me, saying, are you graybeards in this party getting ready to go into some room somewhere and nullify everything we did in this campaign?"

We have all worked hard for the campaigns. And they are nearly tied. And for him to suggest that his grandkids dreams and aspirations will be marganilized if he is not chosen...Well, I have a female child who is looking at the way Clinton is treated in the media and on DU and wonders when women will be treated as fairly as Obama has been treated.

Her dreams are as marganilized as any grandkids of Clyburn.

And he is suggesting that because Obama has come so far, he should not be denied because of what it will do to the AA community.

He is making it about race.

[Schema Thing]

15. You're a bit deficit in your understanding of the word "tied",

or "almost". Or both.

[Evergreen Emerald]

27. Look at the numbers. And stop with your condesending response.

[Schema Thing]

44. Exactly, the numbers show you do not understand what "tied" or "almost" mean

[watrwefitinfor]

89. No, you're wrong.

They do, they DO understand "tied" or "almost" tied.

After all, when Hillary was slightly ahead in the popular vote, or delegates, or momentum, she was "clearly ahead" of him. She was winning in every category that mattered! He was losing.

There was absolutely no tie, not even almost a tie.

It is only when Hillary is behind in all those categories, and has lost any semblance of momentum, that she is nearly tied.

Got it?

Wat

[hokies4ever]

104. You're the one with the combative tone

and the misreading of Clyburn's statement. Hillary's trying to hold Obama's 'blackness' against him and Clyburn is speaking out to say that's not right.

[Darth_Kitten]

116. LOL........if that's combative, I'm a monkey's uncle........

:eyes: Geez.

[U4ikLefty]

168. So your nephew is a monkey.

Are you related to Bush?

[hisownpetard]

63. And, umm, you're a bit deficient in your understanding and use of the word "deficit."

:hide:

[roseBudd]

20. Do you not understand why SDs nullifying trhe will of the voters is repugnant?

[Evergreen Emerald]

28. What is the will of the voters? And which voters are you concerned with?

They are nearly tied. The votes show that nearly 1/2 of the democrats are supporting Clinton.
Who are they taking it from? Clyburn's grandkids?

[reflection]

41. Obama owns the tiebreaker. Therefore he is ahead.

As for the rest of it, it's subjective. If he wants to back Obama based on race, that's his call I suppose. I imagine race is merely one of many factors Clyburn is weighing. It would be impossible to separate the issue from the man. I'm sure there are plenty of whites doing the same thing on the other side. But what can you do?

[roseBudd]

45. They are not nearly tied, it's called a primary, it isn't awarded by country wide percentages nor by

polling.

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. He has not won. He does not have enough delegates with out the SDs

to win.

Neither does Clinton. So, the SDs are giving the candidacy to one of them.

[Zhade]

118. UPDATE: Obama leads in SDs.

You have officially failed.

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. "Nearly Tied" = Almost Pregnant n/t

[mhoran]

152. They are not nearly tied

I appreciate your passion and respect the fact that you have worked hard in support of your candidate, truly.

Nonetheless, the reality is that Senator Obama leads in states won, delegates, and the popular vote. Depending on the source, he is either tied or +/- a few SDs with Senator Clinton.

The race has been close, but to say they are nearly tied is inaccurate, IMO.

[SwampG8r]

169. can we be real?

every poll shows clinton **% and obama **% (no number to argue over)
if the pollsters were asking the same question and including ALL the candidates before super tuesday hillary wouldnt beat mike gravel
the only reason it even looks like half the party supports her is because they only ask about those 2
omfreaking god she wouldnt even make the top 4

[dbmk]

171. A tie?

Given that the rest of the contests and add-ons fall out somewhere near as expected, Hillary is already locked out of reaching the magic number.

Obama needs 20 SDS.

Thats a tie Obama can live with, I think.

[krkaufman]

182. ha! NEARLY tied. So you agree that they're not ACTUALLY tied ...

... yet pretend not to recognize from whom the superdelegates would be stealing the nomination.

What a hoot!

[krkaufman]

183. NOTE: A 5% margin is NOT nearly tied.

From CNN's election center...

Current pledged delegates...

Obama: 1,592
Clinton: 1,424

That's a 168 delegate difference, or 5.6% of the pledged delegates so far chosen. Close, perhaps, but NOT NEARLY CLOSE to a tie.

[seaglass]

74. Can you write a letter to Kennedy, Kerry and Patrick and tell them that?

BTW that's a bullshit argument, the SDs have the right to choose who they choose. It is AOK that the 3 I mentioned chose Obama when the state of MA chose Clinton. In fact, if they changed their minds to represent the majority in their state, I wouldn't have a problem with that either.

[The Doctor.]

162. Here's a doosey from a Clinton supporter;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5793971#5820371

The insanity is boundless. I'm hoping that these people aren't really DUers.

[sandnsea]

21. In no reality are they tied

The race has been nearly impossible for her to win for weeks now, at least since she lost Texas. Unless you want the graybeards to nullify the vote of the people because Obama is black, which is what the Clintons are now saying. Do you support that?

[pdxmom]

23. There is no "tie". And the kids (or anyone who has supported Obama)

shouldn't be happy that a bunch of "graybeards" would go into that smoke-filled room scenerio and nullify what the voters have decided.

Never once has Obama stated "pick me, because most men vote for me". Hillary has certainly said "pick me, cause most white people are voting for me now". Huge difference.

Clyburn isn't saying Obama should get the nomination because of his race, he should get it because he (and his supporters) earned it and race shouldn't be the reason for denying him that nomination.

[roguevalley]

64. oh for christ sakes. whoever wins, wins. everyone else just get in

line behind the edwards, kucinich etc people who lost and have moved on and work for the common goal, destroying the republicans forever.

[NOLALady]

124. Yes!!!!!!!!

It's time to kick Rethug butt! I am so ready!

[Darth_Kitten]

114. Bravo!!!

:D

[The Doctor.]

161. Right.

Because if the media points out that she's a liar, it's because she's a woman, not because she's a liar.
If they point out that she's too far behind to win, it's because she's a woman, not because she's too far behind to win.
If they point out that she doesn't have enough money, it's because she's a woman, not because she doesn't have enough money.

And if it's a man that they're talking about, it's because they're just 'telling it like it is' and not just being mean to him for being a man.

Right?

You guys really need to cut the victimhood shit out and come back to reality.

[Patchuli]

115. You over-react .

I saw no "insults" to you or anyone in that post.

[mhoran]

150. I'm sorry

But I disagree with your interpretation.

[The Doctor.]

160. She's been treated perfectly fairly by the media...

She's been treated as a liar, as ununscrupulous, as desperate, and as delusional.

Here's a clue; They aren't treating her that way because she is a woman, they're treating her that way because she's a liar;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/14/did-hillary-clinton-reall_n_86674.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/03/clinton-bosnia.html

Because she's unscupulous;
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14809.html

Because she's desperate;
http://www.newsweek.com/id/136171
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/08/997279.aspx

And because she's delusional;
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1738102,00.html
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/05/more_signs_clin.html

None of those particular traits are owned by her because she is a woman. Her being a woman is just a convenient excuse to feign outrage and claim 'sexism' rather than accept the facts.

This is why you consistently run off rather than answer questions when you can't handle that particular discomfort.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5905971#5909250


It's time to come back to reality, it doesn't treat people well who don't accept it.

[krkaufman]

181. In those statements Clyburn made, he didn't mention race.

Only the effort put in and the results accomplished.

"these young people are looking at me, saying, are you graybeards in this party getting ready to go into some room somewhere and nullify everything we did in this campaign?"

Those Clyburn comments were specific to concerns that the superdelegates might overrule the pledged delegate majority, and he made them in a way that was race-neutral. YOU are making it about race.

[liberalcommontater]

175. I hope you are right.

We need the better candidate. I think Hillary has more experience - not in the legislative sense, or the offices held on your resume sense, but the political gladiator sense. As Democrats we must choose the best candidate. If Clyburn is saying that Obama is the best candidate because he can inspire and articulate and implement an effective message of change that the other candidate cannot, then while I disagree with his choice, I respect it entirely. We just have a difference of opinion.

If he is saying that the best black candidate will not be denied, and that is how I originally read it too, then I have a problem with that. The leadership question involves so much more than the historical novelty of a woman or black man as president. We will undoubtedly face issues of war and peace, terrorism, recession or depression, etc., and we need a leader, a politician, an intellect capable of navigating these issues successfully.

Look at Dimya. He's probably been told what to do 95% of the time. The 5% he has struck out on his own have probably been even worse for the country. (Don't misread that...I think both Clinton and Obama leave Bush far, far behind.)

[hisownpetard]

7. He should not be chosen because he is black. And he should not NOT be chosen

because he is black, either.

His race should be incidental, just as Hillary's gender should be incidental.

Merit should be the deciding factor, along with character.

[BlooInBloo]

24. To white folks, his being black JUST MEANS that he will be chosen because he's black...

Any black person who gets anywhere is the beneficiary of affirmative action, to white folks.

[Evergreen Emerald]

38. I do not believe that is true.

You are generalizing and being unfair.

[Zhade]

120. I agree. That only describes people like you.

NT!

[Darth_Kitten]

126. You must not know how to read people very well.

n/t

[mhoran]

154. Stop with the insults!

We can disagree without being disrespectful.

[mhoran]

153. Agreed

[Cha]

92. Not to this white folk...Obama is Obama and he just

happens to be Black and White. The bilary wants to make this divisive along racial lines but they're gonna be left holding the burning cross.

[Darth_Kitten]

119. Oh, how dramatic!!!!!

"holding the burning cross"? Funny, how in the 90's nobody would have accused the Clintons of racism. :eyes:

[JerseygirlCT]

109. C'mon Bloo - that's not fair. Many do not feel that way at all

He will be chosen because of his energy, his ability to lead without needing to be nasty and confrontational, his good ideas, and his ability to inspire people - like Clyburn's grandkids, and college kids all over the country - of all hues.

[roseBudd]

17. They are not tied, no matter how many times you type that, it is simply not true

[Chulanowa]

19. You apparently read a totally different article than everyone else

The question is, will the "old guard" of the party go into some back room to cut a deal, nullifying the hard work of everyone involved? Are we going back to the days of a handful of party members making this decision for us? While he presents it from an Obama angle, such an occurrence would be just as cheapening to you and your hard work, as well. Why bust your butt campaigning for Hillary, if she's going to be handed the nomination regardless, right?

Your attempts to spin this article into a racist diatribe is pretty shameful, by the way, and says a lot more about you than it does about Clyburn.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evergreen Emerald]

49. I disagree

Nothing I have said on here has been racist. But, Obama supporters would rather shout "Racism!" than talk about race.

You all ARE using "Racism!" if not for fun, then because you are idiots.

[Chulanowa]

62. You are reading the same post from you that I am, right?

The one that claims Clyburn wants Obama to be given the nomination because he's black? Despite the fact James Clyburn said no such thing? The implication of YOUR statement (not Clyburn's - yours) is that Obama is getting a race-based free ride. Maybe if this had, in fact, been something Clyburn had said, you would have a point, and one I would agree with. However... He didn't say this. And that's the crux of the problem here.

[Evergreen Emerald]

66. The crux of the problem is that there is a premise that Obama Won

and it will therefore be taken away from him and Clyburn's black grandchildren will wonder about racism in America.

And I do not believe that what Clyburn says; that if he is not picked by the SD's it is about race. And that comes from the idea that he has won and therefore it will be taken from him.

He has not won.

[Chulanowa]

70. You really didn't read the article, did you?

Nowhere does he say that Obama has won. Nowhere does Clyburn say that his grandchildren will wonder about racism. Nowhere does Clyburn claim that if the SD's don't pick Obama, it's about race.

NOWHERE.

He states that his grandkids - his daughter, who has busted her butt on the Obama campaign - don't want to see the party elite "go into some room somewhere and nullify everything" they did, all the effort they put in.

It's right there, black on grey, size 11 Times New Roman font.

[Evergreen Emerald]

76. Why would he say that?

No one has won? Why would he suggest that his grandkids would be disapointed? I would imagine that whoever they pick, the other side will be disappointed. I imagine that the Clinton supporters, who have busted their butts, would be very upset that the nomination was taken from them. I imagine that when the nomination is decided by the SDs there will be lots of disapointed people.

On all sides of the issue.

[Chulanowa]

81. Because the Clinton campaign was threatening that "Nuclear Option", remember?

As I said, way way back when we started... I'm certain NEITHER candidate's supporters wants their candidate - much less the other, to be given the nomination in a back room. They want their candidate to WIN the nomination, not be GRANTED it. Understand?

You're the one who took this simple statement and inflated it into yet another race-based bit of hullabaloo

[Evergreen Emerald]

83. Then I do not understand your post.

Neither candidate's supporters want their candidate to be given the nod in a back room. Yet--neither has won the candidacy with the votes of the people. So, it is moot. Because--the back room people WILL choose it.

Clyburn is voicing the Obama talking point: that if Obama does not get it--it will have been "taken."

That, is BS. Because, neither can win without the SDs. So, just like Clyburn, I could argue that the Clinton folks who have worked so hard will be disappointed if they lose.

[mamalone]

134. Thank you.....

Nail on head. Spot on. Zactly right.

[Zhade]

122. "I would think that he should not be picked just because he is black."

Your own words betray you.

[roseBudd]

51. Did it ever occur to you that your illogical arguments drive eggheads crazy simply because we are

logical and don't subscribe to magical thinking?

THEY ARE NOT TIED! HE HAS THE MOST PLEDGED DELEAGATES. HE ALSO HAS THE MOST SUPERDELEGATES AND COUNTING.

HE IS THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE. ARGUING ON AN ANONYMOUS FORUM CAN"T CHANGE THAT.

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. Magical thinking: "Obama won."

Obama cannot win without the SDs anymore than Clinton can win without the SDs.

So, if Obama wins, it will be because of the SDs. Will the SDs give the nomination to Obama? Likely.

But, to suggest that it will be "taken from him" if they choose Clinton is a false propaganda message sent out by the Obama camp. As neither can win without the SDS.

[mamalone]

138. But he HAS the supers!

The issue isn't the supers so much as it is Hillary finagling some type of "nuclear option," which no matter what you might like to think would be perceived as stealing the nomination. They aren't tied. He is ahead... and he will only get more ahead as time passes.

[BalancedGoat]

144. I don't agree.

Obama only "needs" the super delegates to win because they are a part of the system. Without out them he would only be around 33 delegates away from winning; Clinton would need close to 200. Barring a massive catastrophy for the Obama campaign, it is a foregone conclusion that he will have a majority of the pledged delegates. As far as the elections go, Obama has won that part of the process. It will then be up to the super delegates to either accept the result or overturn it (which is within their right to do). If you honestly can see no difference between the two than there is really no point in debating the subject with you.

[Raineyb]

84. If you're tired of being called a racist

Perhaps you should refrain from behaving like one.

Here's a little fact that we don't discuss enough. If Senator Clinton was not a former first lady the SD's would have had a quiet discussion somewhere and urged her to drop out or risk alienating the party. And this conversation would have happened weeks ago. But she stays, uses Rethug tactics and very few people have publicly asked her to step down.

If Senator Clinton was in Senator Obama's position she would have declared victory and started demanding that her opponent to drop out and no one would have said that Senator Obama had the right to stay in the race until the Convention (even though he like she does have that right)the way people have said about Senator Clinton. There would have been a huge outcry for him to step down or risk the party losing in November. We've not had this outcry. People say "Oh the race is over" and it's true as far as it goes but Senator Clinton continues to campaign as though she has a chance in hell. We still have SD's sitting on their asses. Why? Because they don't want to be the one to hand it to a black man? I can't say for sure but it damn sure looks that way. I can't really say I'm surprised because unfortunately, moving goalposts is a fact of life for black people in America.

If Senator McSame had said the same thing about getting the white vote that Senator Clinton said on Wednesday or Thursday (My apologies for not knowing exactly which day. I work second shift so I get up on one day but go to bed on another. They tend to blur together on occasion.) we would have rightly excoriated McSame for his racist rhetoric. But because Senator Clinton says it we have people who claim to be Democrats apologize for it.

The truth is this: Senator Obama is being treated differently because he is black. His pastor says crazy things, he has to "denounce" him. Louis Farrakhan says crazy things, Obama has to denounce him too even though he's never been allied with the man. Because apparently all black people know another and we all have the same views on everything Why we must be interchangeable! Meanwhile, Senator McSame allies himself with and actively seeks the endorsement of rabidly insane homophobic, religious bigots. We've yet to have a serious conversation in the media about these people and the Senator from Arizona's alliances. The one time it's brought up McSame brushes it off saying he's glad to have the endorsement but he disagrees with some of what the man believes. Apparently McSame doesn't have to denounce or reject. They can agree to disagree. Yet this isn't good enough for Obama?

What's worse, when these differences are pointed out the old tired, idiotic, asinine, cretinous, dim-witted, meme of "playing the race card" come out.

"The race card" is nothing more than a moronic dismissal of a very real problem. Here's a little something for you folks who love this phrase. Discrimination is not a trump card that black people pull out in order to get out of something. Black people are loathe to even bring up discrimination unless necessary because the usual response for white people who do not want to be called out on their racist bullshit is "Oh you're playing the race card." Discrimination and the disparate treatment that comes with it is not a game. It can literally be a matter of life and death. If you don't believe that ask Sean Bell. Although you will need a Ouija board to do so; dead people rarely come over to chat. This trivialization, is insulting and needs to stop. Otherwise all you are saying is that black people have no rights, dignity, or anything else for that matter that white people need bother to respect.

One last thing, when people say that the Clintons are using racist tactics that is not the same as someone calling them racist. However, the use of such racist tactics are indicative of a nasty combination of desperation and opportunism. Racists can be educated, and may turn into an ally down the road. Anyone who knows better, as Clinton clearly does, and uses such repugnant tactics anyway can not be trusted because the same way she turned on black people she will turn on white people who are true progressives.

My apologies if this comes off as a bit of a rant but someone needed to say it. I only hope that someone actually reads this.

Regards

[watrwefitinfor]

93. Read it and appreciated it much.

"If you're tired of being called a racist
Perhaps you should refrain from behaving like one."

Well said!

Welcome to DU, Raineyb! :hi:

Wat

[Lady-Damai]

95. Excellent post!!!!

[Catherina]

96. I read it! Excellent post. I wish I could recommend it n/t

[Lochloosa]

100. Perfect reply.

I will enjoy watching for you post in the future Raineyb.

Welcome to DU.
:toast:

[KnaveRupe]

103. Make this an OP, please. This needs to be read. n/t.

[beezlebum]

110. make this an OP!

:thumbsup:

[Zhade]

125. PWNED. Nicely done.

NT!

[Number23]

131. I read it

someone needed to say it. I only hope that someone actually reads this.

And all I have to say to your post is - AMEN.

[mamalone]

139. oh. my.

you can rant 'round me anytime honey:)

[NOLALady]

140. Welcome to DU.

This post was like a dose fresh air in a moldy closed room(mind).

[LaStrega]

141. I read it, too ...

Very well put. :toast:

[Revlon10]

143. Great post

I have read this, and thank you for your post

I feel the same way, if it was the other way around, it would be a different story,
but I wanted to keep it to myself, till he gets elected, people are so sensitive if you say anything wrong about Senator Clinton,
this whole race has been unfair to Obama, the media,
she can out right lie, about sniper fire,
she treats the public like children,
talk about obliterate other countries,
vote for the war, when we all knew it was wrong
wants to change the rules in the middle of the game, when she's not winning
she never gave a ish about the florida, or Michigan vote
the ambush she had for Obama on their last debate with ABC
Bill and her both play the race card
we still never got to see the full tax return
the name calling and the shame one you
the 3 am phone call
she ran a weak campaign and her oponant is better stronger, more genuine, and in touch with what we the people need

I wonder how someone who is so smart, with so much experience, and ready for day one got outwitted by this young elitist he fliped the game on her, by keeping it real, raising more money, (now no one owns his vote) honest, grassroots, and giving the people what they want. Back to our foundation, and our constitution
she acts like a spoiled brat, when she's not getting her way,
for her this is not about the people of this country, our future, our homes, our aging parents, paying for collage, our loans, our jobs, gas, our food (is it even real anymore) , our bridges and roads, the falling dollar, basic schooling, child care, and it goes on and on
its about her and her ego, if she cared she would have let go and help build a strong party to insure a in the the fall so we as a country can get back on our feet.

[Shae]

151. Excellent and informative post.

I read every word and appreciate you writing it.
Welcome to DU.
:hi:

[Revlon10]

172. Thank you.

Thank you, you are my first welcome, it feels good.

[psychmommy]

174. nice rant raineyb

you represented me well. many good points and i felt a little stress relief just from reading. you hit the nail on many heads and had me cracking up. thanks, i am proud to be interchangeable with you.

[kpete]

178. well said

trust me, I will share this

and, welcome to DU, kp

[Raineyb]

179. Thank you all!

Thank you for the nice words and the welcome. :hi:

A couple of people have suggested that I turn the reply into an OP. So I've included a wee bit of an introduction, added a preface and a couple of paragraphs leading up to the title of the post in this thread and posted it as an OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5925159

Regards

[NashVegas]

145. The Old Guard ALREADY Cut a Deal - Long Ago

The only thing now is to shepherd the voters through the gates.

[cliffordu]

36. Nearly TIed...BWAAAAAHAHAHA!!

Fuck, that's funny.

Your humor and irony has been missing from the posts around here lately, EE.

Jaysus, that's hilarious. (OR, as we like to say at my house "hill-arious")

Is your real name McCauliff???

I don't know what you have to do to get your head into a space to defend the Pantsuited Panderbear, but really, if you're not trying to be funny with all this shit, you need help.



:rofl:

[JackORoses]

69. They are not nearly tied. And the only ones who have made this about race are the Clintons.

Obama will be the next President because he transcends Race.

I didn't realize how many closet bigots existed in the Democratic Party.
People who like to pretend they believe in equality, but when it comes down to it, they revert to the prejudices of previous generations.

Obama is not winning because he is Black.
He is winning because he is an honest, intelligent Leader. Something many have never seen before.

Hillary is not losing because she is White.
She has lost because she is a Liar and a Manipulator. She doesn't respect the American People enough to run an honest campaign. She doesn't care whether voters base their decisions on truth or not.

I feel bad that you have become so attached to an illusion.
I hope your recovery is speedy.

[Evergreen Emerald]

79. I believe that when Obama used race to divide in SC, that was "making it about race."

So, I disagree with you. I think that the politics of the Obama campaign were dirty. And that they were hypocritical when they suggested they wanted to have a positive campaign and then used racism, and sexism to win.

But, go head, keep on your obama googles with which you appear to view the race.

I will be here in reality.

[Lady-Damai]

97. How did Obama use race to divide SC?

[KnaveRupe]

107. By being black, silly!

You didn't see Hillary or Edwards or Dodd, or Kucinich being black to get votes!

[JerseygirlCT]

111. I don't know - maybe he was supposed to just accept the diss from B. Clinton? nt

[Zhade]

127. Yeah, the reality that denies the ironclad proof that clinton lied about Tuzla.

You are completely out of touch with actual reality.

[mhoran]

156. When you resort to name-calling and insults...

...you undermine your own credibility.

You've taken some unfair shots throughout this thread, IMO, but you do not need to respond in kind.

[Darth_Kitten]

129. LOL.............if I believed in Obama, will my life be perfect, too?

Call Planet Earth control, you want to make a safe landing.

[mhoran]

155. Race and Gender ARE a part of this primary.

Racism in America is institutionalized and a reality.

Sexism in America is institutionalized and a reality.

Senator Obama has been unfaily treated by the MSM at times because of his race.

Senator Clinton has been unfairly treated by the MSM at times because of her gender.

These are real factors, but only one part of the greater dynamic. Senator Obama does not lead this race because he is black. Senator Clinton does not trail because she is a woman.

[Leftist Agitator]

87. "They are nearly tied."

No, they aren't. He has an insurmountable lead, and everyone knows it.

[Usrename]

90. Sure, if being a lap down, with one lap to go, is a close race.

His lead is insurmountable, but other than that they are nearly tied.

It's exactly like finishing a 400 mile race only two miles behind the leader.

[anigbrowl]

101. He has succeeded because he has worked for it. He should not be stopped just because he's black.

But that's the argument Clinton is making when she talks about his 'electability'.

[graycem]

106. He's not saying that at all..

I don't see anything to suggest that he should be chosen because he's black, I do see him saying he's frustrated that people are trying to somehow suggest that Obamas victories are somehow less than victories of other candidates, even though he's being held to a higher standard. So many people throughout this campaign have managed to find something negative to explain away his victories at nearly every turn.

"He's not connecting with white working class men"
"He won because it was a caucus state"
"He won small states"
"That state won't go blue in November"
"He's only winning because he has the AA vote and the egghead vote"
"He's only winning because people are excited about the concept of a black president"
"He's an empty suit who just talks about false hope"
"His supporters are naive"
"His supporters are kool-aid drinkers"
"His supporters are a cult"
"He hasn't been vetted" (because they can't find any dirt and he appears to have more integrity than most politicians.)
"He's too black"
"He's not black enough"
"He has no experience" (even though he has MORE elected experience than a certain other candidate).

And many more I can't think of at the moment. None of his wins are good enough for some people.

But that's ok, luckily the voters are making their choice despite all the naysayers. :)

[Diane R]

108. Clyburn did not mention race....YOU did. We're talking about EARNING the nomination.

[Zhade]

117. He's not, so you should be happy.

Any contention that he is, of course, reveals not-so-hidden racism.

And they are sooooo not tied. Obama leads IN EVERY CATEGORY.

She's done. Accept it, as she will have to do.

[totodeinhere]

135. No, but he shouldn't be rejected because he is black either.

[quakerboy]

148. That is true

However, He should not not be chosen because he is black either. And that seems the more applicable paradime at this point.

And they are not "nearly tied". Obama is up in Delegates, Dollars, Donors, states, Contests, and over 1 million votes in all delegate producing contests.

[mhoran]

149. That wasn't the point.

This wasn't about race. It was about the energy and enthusiasm and passion brought to the political landscape by a new generation of voters.

To intimate that he is being picked just because he is black is just as demeaning as suggesting that those who vote for Senator Clinton do so only because she is a woman.

Perhaps you might reread the post to understand it differently.

[Frank Booth]

166. I think Obama's being black counts as a positive.

Just like I think Hillary's being a woman is a positive as well.

Of course, a candidate's got to have much more than just being black or female. Both of the Democratic candidates do.

President of the United States is such a powerful symbol in our own country and the rest of the world. Ideally, the President should be a role model. And I think it will beneficial to this country to have a black man as President, if for nothing else than to serve as an extemely positive role model to kids in this country, no matter what race they are. I also think it would be great to have a female President, who would also be a great role model.

[Baby Snooks]

173. But it is about race

And you know who made it about race? The Clintons. Who played the race card through others and then finally through her comment about "white voters" which hopefully will be the legacy of the Clintons with regard to equality in this country. They are, in the end, racists themselves. They proved that with the governor of Pennsylvania signalling that racism was acceptable in the Democratic Party and their saying absolutely nothing in response.

Some defended them. Using the excuse that this country is not ready for an African-American president. Which itself is racist. Barack Obama's support is not just from the African-American community.

And you know what? It should be about race. Racism is still rampant in this country. The coming confrontation may be healthy for the country. It will divide the country but perhaps the country needs to be divided finally so that those who believe racism is acceptable can be shamed and then shunned by those who believe racism is not acceptable and should not be tolerated. Starting with the shaming and then shunning of the Clintons. Perhaps the Clintons believe "don't ask, don't tell" is the solution to racism as well.

Barack Obama is the newly built bridge to the future. Hillary Clinton is the old rocky road back to the past.

[JTFrog]

177. Nor should he have to face additional tests because he's black. If Clinton were in an identical

position, she would have been handed the nomination months ago. There wouldn't be any religious or patriotism tests going on.

And they are not nearly tied. Not even close. No matter how many times you repeat it, the water is not going to change into wine this time.

Only in HillaryWorld is it almost a tie when one person has a zero mathematical chance of winning and the other is only a few delegates away.

Yes, I know you prefer the Republican method of picking a candidate, but trust me, IF THAT WERE THE GAME, Obama would have had it covered just as well. Trying to change the rules or fix the fight as we approach the finish line is going to be the ruin of her entire career.

She will never be re-elected to anything after showing her true colors, no matter how many coats of white base she applies.

[Phx_Dem]

180. It's not because he's black,

it's because he's ahead. He's been ahead since he won Iowa. He has an unsurmountable lead in delegates and leads by other every measurement including Superdelegates. If the party leaders/Superdelgates were to hand the nomination to Clinton -- the person who has been behind the entire race -- it would be similiar to what the Supreme Court did to Gore. They would be taking away from him that which he rightly won just because Hillary claims he can't win -- because he's black.

He can and will win in November. I have no doubt. The GOP will be the nasty hatemonging swift-boaters that they always are, but they won't prevail because their own party is a disaster. Even the some Evangelicals are now turning against the Republicans because of the war and the economy. They've never been crazy about McCain in the first place and if they're worried about the economy, McCain will not able to reassure they becuase he's clueless about the economy by his own admission. McCain is a horrible candidate and pretty soon everyone will see just how bad he is. He can't remember, or understand, shit, he can't control his temper, he comes of like a daughtering old man who changes his mind every time the wind shifts, and he's boring. They are plenty of scandals in the McCain past and the 527s will raise every one of them.

:popcorn:


(Mrs. Phx_Dem)

[lapfog_1]

3. This is the story of this campaign

How many grandparents and parents of teenage and young adult children are stunned by the amount of passion and energy they show for Barack Obama. Kids who would never get excited by anything except maybe a college sporting event or a rock concert are now pushing hard... and it's not a one time thing, they push hard for the whole campaign... and it's for a serious cause. They get educated on the process of our government and the issues at stake. After all, the borrow and spend republicans are borrowing all that money FROM THEM and THEIR CHILDREN to come. And they don't like it one bit.

The Grandparents and parents are very proud of this coming generation... it is going to be the exact opposite of the Alex Keaton (Family Ties) young republican of the 1980s. They are very much aware that Global Warming is real and is happening in their world right now... and peak oil and the coming resource wars. And they want a say in how these issues are handled.

I hear over and over that someone my age is affected by their children's enthusiasm for Senator Obama.

[BenDavid]

5. Obama and his campaign made this about race, but hey, if all

we wanted to do is nominate a black man then go with obama, but if our goal is to win the presidency then maybe we need to look some place else.

[gbrenna]

8. Do you agree with your candidate then...

a black man can not win the presidency? I think that is a horrible thing to say.

[hisownpetard]

9. Truly, that is a ridiculous statement, start to finish.

Really.

[Mooney]

14. Obama's campaign never made this about race.

Unless you have a quote from Obama talking about how his race should be a factor in whether he gets the nomination or not. Hillary, on the other hand, is on record talking about how she alone can get the white vote. If you've watched the news at all the last few days you would know this.

Also, the argument that Hillary Clinton could win the presidency is completely ridiculous, still, but that's another discussion.

[cliffordu]

37. Kinda disgusting Benny. Kinda.

[ima_sinnic]

105. what an asinine thing to say! I really seriously regret taking you off Ignore

are all of Hillary's supporters just totally dumb and ignorant?
judging by their posts just in this thread, I would have to say yes.

First we've got one insisting that they're "tied."
Then we've got you saying Obama "made it about race." (LINK? hint: it was the MEDIA, and your own slimey, low-road, gutter-dwelling candidate and her supporters who have obsessed endlessly about race)
Then we've got some idiot from hillaryis44 who thinks that people in Puerto Rico get to vote in the GE.
We've got some who are so thick they actually think Obama doesn't know how many states there are! I guess subtle humor doesn't work with low-ball intelligence.

And all of you think she actually has a chance of winning the nomination!!'

sheesh! DUH!

[Zhade]

128. So, black men can't win?

Racist.

[mhoran]

157. Unfair

and untrue.

[grasswire]

10. what about the nullification of girls' and women's dreams of a female?

Do those mean nothing, sir?

Why are the dreams of your grandchildren more important than the dreams of millions of women who have worked for the day a woman takes office?

[Evergreen Emerald]

13. Exactly. My daughter sees the way Clinton is treated, and wonders

when in America a woman will be treated as respectfully as Obama has been treated.

[CakeGrrl]

29. How has Clinton been "treated" in any way that she did not bring upon herself?

I can't think of one example where Hillary was criticized for being a woman.

But BILL sure trotted out the "they're picking on her because she's a girl" meme.

She lied about Bosnia on her own and has been called on it.

She puffed up McCain against a fellow Democrat on her own and has been called on it.

She needs to own her own missteps and misconduct and that of her campaign, and not cry and moan that they're just picking on the girl when people point out those issues.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. You are ignoring 100's of sexist posts on DU and 100's of sexist statements

in the media. You are ignoring the misspeaks and outright fabrications that Obama was allowed to get away with.

[totodeinhere]

137. That may well be, but you have got to come to terms with the fact that it is over.

[grasswire]

42. is that all you've got?

She "lied" about Bosnia; she "puffed up" McCain?

Cancelled out by Obama's gaffes.

You're going to have to do more to show why Hillary deserves the hatred.

[AspenRose]

53. I don't know if I'd want to point my daughter to HRC as an example of

how a woman should run a political campaign. It doesn't set a good example.

[Evergreen Emerald]

58. Well, you are wrong.

You are part of the lemmings who see everything Clinton does as evil and everything Obama does as great--even when he does the same thing Clinton does.

I see what is happening on both sides. And so does my daughter.

[Darth_Kitten]

136. Uh, how has her campaign been any different from ANY man's?

You don't hold women to a much higher standard than men? Give men the benefit of the doubt where you would NEVER give a woman.

And people why women are pissed off.

[NashVegas]

147. You Know, I Do Agree With You On That

I'd show this campaign to my daughter and say, "Hillary didn't win because she wasn't ruthless enough. She didn't do enough to divide the black vote. She didn't do enough to divide the college-educated-liberal-white-people-who-never-hang-out-with-black-people vote."

[Darth_Kitten]

133. I take it you are particularly young......

sad that you don't want to see.....

[Darth_Kitten]

132. Nobody talks about the dreams of their daughters or granddaughters....

at least it's not politically correct to do so. Imagine, girls growing up wanting to be leaders and scientists and what have you and not cheerleaders for the boys. :sarcasm:

[mhoran]

159. That is a matter of opinion, not of fact.

As is my belief that Senator Clinton has been treated much more fairly and kindly than Senator Obama.

[sandnsea]

22. Because Obama WON n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

40. I guess that is the fundamental problem with this thread

Obama has not won yet.

[sandnsea]

48. Then you support overturning the voters, correct? n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

56. There is no "overturning voters" because no one has won.

Now, if someone won the nomination, and it was taken away from her/him, then I could better see this post. But, no one has won.

[sandnsea]

57. You think she'll win with 70% of the vote? n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

59. No. I think neither can win without the SDs. The propaganda

that the Obama camp is voicing is that it will be "taken" from him. Well, I am disputing that premise as he has not won. That does not make me a racist, by the way.

[sandnsea]

61. So you support overturning the vote of the people

Because that's the only way she can win. That's a simple yes or no.

[Evergreen Emerald]

65. Again, you are stating that Obama has won... he has not won anything

he has not passed the finish line, and indeed, without the help of the SDs, he cannot. He and Clinton are in the same situation.

So, the question is this--Which votes are they going to overturn? Votes for Obama or Votes for Clinton?

It is a false piece of propaganda to suggest that if they choose Clinton they will be overturning the "will of the people." The will of the people are divided.

[sandnsea]

67. Is Obama ahead? n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

68. ahead is not winning.

[sandnsea]

72. Does the vote of the people matter, or not? n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

75. You are talking in circles.

[sandnsea]

77. No, you refuse to support the vote of the people n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

80. "The vote of the people?" No one has won yet.

That is the problem with your posts...and I keep saying the same thing, and you keep responding with "the vote of the people" NO ONE HAS WON YET.

[sandnsea]

82. Are you going to respect the vote of the people

when there is a winner?

[gmudem]

99. Clinton supporters are being willfully ignorant of reality

It is the only way they can justify her continuing to campaign. It is over, she has lost, everyone knows it. You have to ignore reality to say that's not the case.

Unfortunately you can't argue with people who are ignorant of reality. You might as well be talking to a mailbox.

[muryan]

165. Ludicrious

Being ahead is winning (present tense). He hasn't WON the nomination yet, thats clearly a much more valid point.

[The Doctor.]

163. Nor has the sun risen.

[Egnever]

25. Because Obama has won the nomination

Short of the "Greybeards" Overturning the election results. Which is exactly what he is explaining here, why they will not do that. If situations were reversed and clinton held an unsurmountable lead you would have a point.

[Evergreen Emerald]

30. He cannot win the election without superdelegates.

This is not a situation where Obama "wins" and someone takes it from him. He cannot win. Just like she cannot win.

[PM7nj]

32. Take a look at the latest SD counts...

Depending on how SDs are counted Obama is up by one or down by .5

[Evergreen Emerald]

34. My point is that the SD are deciding the election...just like Clyburn

does not want.

[JerseygirlCT]

113. I think we've all got personal motivations in this race - maybe more so

in this race. Is he not allowed to consider his own as much as you are yours?

The problem is that you simply cannot rank those aspirations universally - it's a losing proposition to even try.

[Darth_Kitten]

121. Exactly......

dreams of his daughter seem like a mere afterthought.

[mhoran]

158. Because they're HIS grandchildren!

Why wouldn't their efforts be more meaningful to him personally?

Where did he say the dreams of others mean nothing?

[PretzelWarrior]

11. this is terrfic stuff

I feel the party leaders and party across the country starting to coalesce around Barack Obama as THE candidate. It has been taking some time for people to go ahead and visualize this...to adjust...but it's happening. Obama should very soon be our nominee.

[roseBudd]

16. to overturn what Obama & his supporters have achieved would be the height of hypocrisy

it is undemocratic and morally repugnant.

[Evergreen Emerald]

35. But, he has won nothing. Neither can win without the SDs.

Nothing will be taken from him. He has not won.

[Lochloosa]

102. Well, she sure as hell hasn't won.

:hide:

[rox63]

130. Once Obama has more than half of the total pledged delegates (probably on 5/20)

Will you then accept that there is no way that Clinton can win? And if she can't win, then he is the winner.

[JAbuchan08]

170. If there were no super delegates Obama would have already won

what Obama supporters are saying is that they want the superdelegates to ratify the votes of the people rather than overturning them. It is perfectly within their rights to subvert the will of Democratic voters, but just because it's within their rights doesn't make it right.

Obama supporters have just as much right to say that superdelegates should vote with the people as Clinton supporters have a right to say that superdelegates should vote against their voters.

I happen to think the latter option is reprehensible, which is within MY rights to think.

[WillyT]

18. Amen !!!

:kick:

[NC_Nurse]

26. Me neither! My whole family has been working for Barack. We're not about to

go quietly if the SD's try to pull something ugly.

[grasswire]

39. so spell out your threat here, now

Let the world know what you are prepared to do.

[sasquatch]

167. Get over yourself

[reflection]

43. That's powerful. n/t

[Scurrilous]

52. K & R

:thumbsup:

[I LUV DEM]

54. keep hope alive!

[K Gardner]

55. Beautiful.. K&R

[peoli]

71. I Love Clyburn

[VolcanoJen]

73. Fantastic!!!!!!!!!

Hearty K&R!

[invictus]

78. Super K & R

[VotesForWomen]

85. goody. the rest of us have dreams and aspirations too. nt

[Coexist]

86. I love this.

[TragedyandHope]

88. K&R - Thanks! Here's the full interview:

Q&A: James Clyburn - The House Majority Whip speaks about the state of the Democratic primary

[Catherina]

98. Thanks for posting the link. Great pic n/t

[Cha]

91. Good on James Clyburn! I love hearing

real stories from real people as an antidote to the latest bilary lies and threats.

[Catherina]

94. OOOOMPH! I was afraid to click this thinking it was an angry rant

that would get me all worked up by hitting so close to home but this is great! It hit home in a wonderful way.

Thank you for posting this :hug: K&R

[madrchsod]

112. I'm not going to sit down and watch anybody marginalize my grandson's dreams and aspirations

neither am i

i`m entering the last years and i have to make sure my kids and grandkids have a future. it`s up to me to make sure their world is better than mine...

[bigbrother05]

123. k&r

[Undercurrent]

142. Thank you!

We need to reaffirm the spirit of unity, and purpose we have as Democrats! We need to remember who we are, what we stand for, and how we got here.

:grouphug:

Your grandson is blessed to have you as a role model!

[kpete]

146. you are right Undercurrent

unity and purpose - xlnt guidestars...kp

[FrenchieCat]

164. That's what I've been saying all along......

But this ain't about Barack Obama...it is about my children's future.

[happygoluckytoyou]

176. DONT FORGET WHO THE ENEMY IS

JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN *** JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN *** JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN *** JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN *** JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN *** JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN *** JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN *** JOHN 'THE REPUBLICAN' MCCAIN ***