What I hear

[bain_sidhe]

from some Obama supporters on this forum:

"Yeah, we trashed your candidate and called both her and you the most vile names imaginable, swarmed every remotely Clinton-positive comment with jeering, bullying vitriol and treated all her supporters like shit, and yeah, we're still doing all that, but Obama won so you all have to quit whining about it now and unite with us, 'k?"

Have I got that right?

Good luck with that as a general election strategy.

:eyes:

[redqueen]

1. Hey you're going to hear it all from the RW in the GE anyway...

at least it's not coming from our fucking CANDIDATE.

Count yourself lucky.

[Bucky]

2. I did a quick Google search, but couldn't find anyone saying that

Perhaps you're exaggerating.

[roguevalley]

45. exaggerating, the new word for lie.

[rodeodance]

3. I will back you up. you got it right.

[cali]

11. how many times did YOU call Obama supporters cultists and koolaid

drinkers? Hypocrisy stinks.

[skipos]

25. Coming for you, that is HILL-A-RIOUS!!! nt

[TexasObserver]

4. maybe you should take a break and come back when you're not feeling so much the victim

[Jane Austin]

5. No, you got it wrong. ...........eom

[Faygo Kid]

6. Good grief, not this again.

I have never, in 40 years of working on campaigns, read such a constant drumbeat of "you meanies hurt my feelings" drivel.

To say you overstate reality is a tremendous understatement. There was plenty of bile to go around on both sides.

Do what you feel is best for you and the country. We'll make our case, but begging for forgiveness ain't gonna happen.

[Egnever]

39. Well said

[cali]

7. nope. you haven't got it right.

let's see; Cultists, Obigot, Snobama, The Messiah, Empty Suit, etc, etc.

Anyone who doesn't see that the nastiness ran both ways is simply blind.

I could say a lot more.

[Dbdmjs1022]

8. You've got it about half right. Here's what ) hear.

We've all trashed each other candidates, flamed each other to high hell, insulted each other's upbringings and cursed the graves of each other's forefathers. We've all been equally douchebagish. But now that we have a nominee, we need to get our act together so we don't lose to the Rethugs AGAIN!

[OzarkDem]

9. Don't forget the race baiting

Now they're trying to lure us by calling us racists and KKK members. This strategy will crash if he makes it to the GE.

If you'll recall the last debate in Philly watching the real time voter responses on the screen, Obama's support dropped drastically whenever he tried to play the race card. Not a good way to attract voters.

[bain_sidhe]

44. All of it

Yes, there are a lot of Obama supporters who said vile things about Clinton supporters.

But, I'm really past arguing about what was said, and whether it was right or wrong, specifically. I'm just telling Obama supporters who DID say any of that stuff to stop demanding that Clinton supporters "get over it" right now and line up behind Obama.

I have to say, I DO believe that Obama has clinched the nomination. I DO believe that we're going to have to unify behind him. I just don't think today is the day for Obama supporters to demand that, and especially not to demand it in the the tone I'm seeing them use.

Calling people "whiners" and "crybabies" for feeling like they've been kicked in the head, when in fact, they actually *have* been kicked in the head, is not the path to healing.

IMHO, of course.

[iamthebandfanman]

10. sorry, but i didnt see a spike in that activity

until clinton went negative.

so, ya know... cant criticize people who jumped on the band wagon when clinton supporters went negative. it made it open season.

[Lucky 13]

12. No. More like...

I'm not buying any of this healing and unity shit. Not yet. I want a fucking concession speech. I want to hear, from her own lips (as if that means anything), that this is OVER. I want it OFFICIAL. I want to be assured that she doesn't have some horrible trick up her sleeve. I put NOTHING past her now.

And because every moment this goes on, ever racially charged statement from her campaign is harming OUR NOMINEE.

This isn't over. They aren't done fighting yet. Due to some mass delusion, the supporters on this board cannot live in reality with the rest of us and accept that this is done. Hilliary and her people fight on. So I fight on. Got a problem with it? Talk to Hillary.

[cliffordu]

13. And what I hear from some of the Hill supporters is now that

she has squandered a perfectly good Presidential primary we have to somehow make reparations to her supporters to get them on board, no matter what kinds of specious bullshit they've been spewing....

Now ya wanna be seduced??

[NightWatcher]

17. I refuse to kiss Hill-people ass

If they dont want to vote with the party, good luck with McCain, I hope none of their kids are of drafting age.

You KNOW they would not be as graceful as they expect us to be if they had won.......but we'll never know that :)

[cliffordu]

19. No, we'll never know the shweet smell of

failure on the Primary Playing field... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Not quite.

It's "we're a bunch of knee jerk, hypocritical semi-literate, racist knobs who slurred your candidate every chance we got using a bunch of right wing, patently false propaganda, but now that even we can't ignore the math anymore you need to start being nice to use because we've got nothing better to do than hold our vote as hostage and attempt emotional blackmail because we're a bunch of spoiled brats."

[AllentownJake]

15. Well

You all haven't exactly been angels and if you can't see that and get over yourselves....that isn't are fucking problem.

[dcindian]

16. There has been a real difference.

While some anonymous internet posters and some right wing hacks have been burning your bridge. Your candidate has personally been doing the same to the democratic base.

And you see how well that worked!

As for letting some anonymous poster get you all up in arms.... GROW UP!

[NewHampshireDem]

18. Nope. What I said was 'Harden the Fuck Up'

And, yeah, I stand by it, because it applies in a lot of cases.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5869000

[graycem]

20. That has come from BOTH sides..

so now you plan on threatening the Democratic nominee with your vote if they (we) don't kiss up enough? A fair apology might be in order but this isn't going to get it for you. YOU have EVERY BIT as much to lose if John McCain is in the WH come November than the rest of us. PERIOD.

[bain_sidhe]

23. but at an eight to one ratio

AT least, that's how all the "polls" came out in this forum. And no, I'm not threatening the Dem nominee... I actually decided a few weeks ago to support Obama.

I'm simply pointing out that bashing people upside the head and then turning around and immediately insisting that they stop acting like they've been bashed up side the head (especially when some are still doing the bashing) is ridiculous.

Give it time.

[graycem]

26. Probably because you were outnumbered..

There are several Hillary only sites with some of the VILEST garbage being spewed over the internet, and if you're halfway honest about that, you will admit that it's true. Obama, after all is said and done, is a DEMOCRAT. So maybe we should all have our feelings hurt, sit home in the fall and just hand the WH to McCrazy on a silver freakin' platter so even MORE people can DIE in Iraq, and probably Iran. Because whether any of us like it or not, that is exactly what's at stake here. I wouldn't want that on my conscience if I were a human being. Any Democrat that sits this one out, should be utterly freaking ashamed. Probably the one time in our history, that you really will make a life or death difference, not to mention the people who died for that right to vote, damned well better vote for WHOMEVER the Democratic nominee is, or you don't deserve to call yourself a Democrat. Hurt feelings or not. There is no valid argument for sitting this one out. Sorry.

[bain_sidhe]

29. Who is this "you" that you speak of

I sat on the fence so long that I have a permanent crease across my butt. I liked all of our candidates, and still do. When I finally came down, just a few weeks ago, I came down on Obama's side, simply because I think his candidacy will be better for the *party*. I continue to think that Hillary would be a fine president, but, whether she knows it or not (I think she does), I know it's over. I don't go, and never have gone, to the "Hillary only" sites. This is the only political forum I frequent (although I do read a few political blogs, and TPM in all its flavors is a daily ritual for me).

But, to re-cast your words, "Hillary, after all is said and done, is a DEMOCRAT," too, and the bile spewed toward her and her supporters on this forum, and it IS lopsided here, I doubt anybody who was paying attention can deny that, still rankles. And I think it's very premature for those very bile-spewers to turn their bullying tactics toward insisting that Hillary supporters come on board RIGHT NOW. Especially when there are still plenty of people spewing bile.

It doesn't sit well with me, and I'm PLEASED that Obama seems to have locked it up. I can only imagine how well it goes over with those who aren't pleased about that.

Like I said. Give it time.

[graycem]

36. ah,

"you" = any titsuck that won't vote because their feelings were hurt on the internet, all the while people are dying in Iraq. Yes, it's devestating when your candidate doesn't win, but MORE devestating to any human being should be the incredible loss of life over a lie and oil.

My entire point is, that I, as well as many others have said, they would rally around the nominee, WHOMEVER it was. I don't hate Hillary. Bill Clinton was the first President I ever voted for. I AM disappointed in her tactics, and have come to accept that Washington has changed them. Allllllll of that aside, if she had won fair and square, I would've voted for her with every bit as much vigor. And anyone, on Obama's side or Hillary's side, who sits this one out because of hurt feelings, need a serious reality check.

I plan on voting for whomever the nominee is, even if by some small chance Hillary pulls something out of thin air, I will vote for her, even if I'm not happy about it, and it will have NOTHING to do with anything related to her supporters, surrogates, or choice in pantsuits, it will be because she has a big fat (D) next to her name. The reason I will is because I have a heart, and I have seen the babies being blown to bits in Iraq, the soldiers being forced to kill those babies, and the soldiers being dead or permanently screwed up because of killing those babies in Iraq. If a person can sit back and "not vote" because of ugly words on the internet, in my opinion, they deserve every bit of McCain's 3rd bush term. They deserve to lose their jobs, they deserve to pay $10 for a gallon of gas, they deserve to possibly open up members of their own families to a draft that will surely come when we're still in Iraq in another 5 years. They should vote regardless, if that apology, or sucking up ever comes.

I will NOT be gloating or rubbing Obama's "win" in their faces (I know the feeling, I felt it when John Kerry lost), and by the same token, I WILL be respectful. However, I will NOT be kissing up as some posts I've seen demand. We ALL have the same stake in this race. People are DYING. And because of that, I agree with you, they will come around eventually.

And just because inflection is sometimes hard to discern over the internet, I am NOT trying to come off as an asshole to you. I just can't understand how anybody could be considering not voting for either Democrat for ANY reason, or voting for McCain. Either of those things, I believe with all my heart, will be the final blow in our nation, that's already hanging by a thread.

[bain_sidhe]

43. I think we're talking past each other.

"you" = any titsuck that won't vote because their feelings were hurt on the internet, all the while people are dying in Iraq. Yes, it's devestating when your candidate doesn't win, but MORE devestating to any human being should be the incredible loss of life over a lie and oil.

...

I just can't understand how anybody could be considering not voting for either Democrat for ANY reason, or voting for McCain.

This is all true, and I agree... I'm just saying that today is not the day to say it. It just deepens the wounds, and they'll take longer to heal.

I'm not saying let them talk trash about Obama. I'm not saying they shouldn't start at least trying to face the fact that it's really over. I'm just saying it's too soon to start demanding that they get behind Obama. It's especially too soon for those who have been among the most prolific bashers of Clinton and Clinton supporters to say it. And especially for them to say it in such a demanding, bullying way.

[graycem]

47. Well, I agree with you

on that, that's equivalent to over the top gloating, that's why I won't be participating in those threads, or the threads that demand apologies. Of course those who are especially antagonistic on both sides will settle in when it's finalized, make peace with each other, and I guess most of the anger will start to subside. At least I hope cooler heads will prevail, and the real enemy in all of this will become clearer.

Hardly anything riles me online, so I usually stay out of the bickering but for the occasional wiseass remark, but it does disgust me to no end, when people, Democrats, say they won't vote for him (or her) for any reason, when anyone threatens they won't for the nominee, for whatever reason, but especially when it's based on what someone on the internet says. The war, the war, the war. Nothing trumps that.

So, again, I agree with you, today isn't the day,especially since she has not suspended or conceded, and when it does come around, it shouldn't be done in bullying ways. It is definitely time to stop the negativity and move on to McCain. Probably an even bigger warmonger than Bush.

[bain_sidhe]

52. Cool!

:pals:

[helderheid]

21. I'm sure you're right.

I'm sure too, that had Obama lost, we'd hear the same from some Clinton supporters.

[Writer]

22. The best way to handle bullies is to ignore them and go find new folks to work for.

There is a plethora of Congressional Democratic candidates that need our support.

[Pastiche423]

24. So it's o-kay

if it comes from someone that isn't an Obama supporter?

How I feel about Hillary Clinton has nothing whatsoever to do w/Obama. I have been dumbfounded by her actions during this primary. From just not liking her, to down right disgust is where she has lead me.

Btw, if the sig lines were up, you'd know who my candidate has been.

[grace0418]

27. It's time for the CHILDREN on both sides of this to get over themselves, put on their big boy

(or big girl) pants, and move the fuck on. The pettiness, the name-calling, and the lunacy went (and still goes) both ways. If Clinton were winning, the same exact argument could be made of gloating Clinton supporters. Do two wrongs make a right? Absolutely not. But IT'S TIME TO MOVE ON.

:eyes:

[TragedyandHope]

28. This has happened on both sides

Which doesn't excuse anything. At the same time, many on both sides have not used these terms and have kept a civil tone to our disagreements.

The problem is, the civil voices are not as loud and BOLD and their posts often have long paragraphs that are liable to be skimmed.

Both sides have to realize that we need each other and we need to work hard move beyond what has been said to win a victory against McCain.

[lojasmo]

30. Hear this: Be a goddamned democrat.

Have some fucking fortitude. Vote for the nominee.

[Martin Eden]

31. You are confusing

You are confusing Obama supporters with Barack Obama.

On one hand there is Barack Obama himself -- his platform, HIS campaign, and the enormous chasm between him and John McCain in terms of our values and the future of our country.

On the other hand we have an internet forum where any petulant fool can demonstrate their lack of respect for others.

Barack Obama is not a petulant fool who disrespected you or anyone in this forum.

There is a difference between Barack Obama and DUers who have soured you on their preferred candidate, and there is too much at stake in the general election to let yourself be confused about who you're angry with.

Victory in November is imperative.

You need to get over the ugliness of this primary. We all do.

[knixphan]

33. YES. You guys are confusing Obama supporters with Barack Obama.

That needed to be repeated. You all know what the internet is.

None of the folks here (both sides) would dare utter a rude word to me in person, I guarantee

But we all know that many see the interwebs as an excuse to take leave of their ettiquete.

Both sides have some apples of this color.

However Barack is a real person, not an internet address.

Let's talk about the person, not a handful of anonymous typers in anonymous offices...

[bain_sidhe]

34. No, I"m not

I'm talking about the Obama supporters here (no, not all, just many). So, shorter version:

If you're one of those Clinton bashers who are now ORDERING Clinton supporters to "stop whining and get behind Obama" I'm saying

BACK THE FUCK OFF.

Give it time. The true Democrats will come around in the fall, the others will fall away, but bashing supporters of the losing candidate while SIMULTANEOUSLY ordering them to stop acting like you're bashing them is STUPID.

[Martin Eden]

41. Then please explain your last comment in the original post

"Good luck with that as a general election strategy."

The meaning I derived from that is:
I'm not going to vote for YOUR candidate because YOU pissed me off.

If that's not what you meant, then you are confusing some of your readers (even if you yourself haven't confused Obama with some Obama supporters).

[bain_sidhe]

42. Fair enough

Sorry if I wasn't clear, and I can see how you might have read that into it. Let me try again: I want to see Obama win the general election. I believe that the calls ... nay, demands for immediate unity coming from some of the same folks who bashed Clinton and, more importantly, her supporters here, are an impediment to unity. Especially since they're presented in such a bullying, sneering tone. Alienating the Clinton supporters further is BAD G.E. STRATEGY.

Like Clinton, they'll have to come to the decision that "it's over" on their own. You can't force them to, and demanding that they give up, get in line, and forget about their treatment here, right now, this very moment, isn't going to hasten that day.

So, yes, I hope that we'll ALL vote for Obama in November. But I think that demanding that the people who you've been beating up (and, to some extent, still ARE beating up) join hands right now isn't the best way to get that result. Especially the way some have dismissed their anger about having been beaten up. It just makes them madder, and MORE likely to flounce off in a huff, rather than less likely.

And no, I'm not asking Obama supporters to kiss up to Clinton supporters, as some posters above have suggested. I'm just saying, let them be, for now. There will be time to call for unity. That time is not today.

If you wonder why I'm not calling out Clinton supporters... well, they're not the ones telling the other candidate's supporters to quit whining and get in line, are they?

[Martin Eden]

53. OK, I agree

The behavior of some Obama supporters is an impediment to unity.

I just want to make sure supporters of both candidates fully understand the importance of unity once we have a nominee.

[Seabiscuit]

62. You OP was clear enough to me. What you wrote above is *exactly* how I read your OP.

[marions ghost]

60. needs to be said...

:thumbsup:

[Mags]

32. Man, you have nailed it.

[nomorewhopper]

35. good luck with having an internet message board influence your political decisions

emotional much?

learn to separate the internet from real life. there is a difference, you know.

[greguganus]

57. They need an internetvention to try and find the real world. n/t

[Egnever]

37. What i hear from clinton supporters

yea we know she cant win and yea we have trashed obama every chance we got over even total stupidity like the gass tax. Yea we know she has no shot to win but we feel we should continue screaming and yelling and stomping our feet anyway because obama supporters were mean to us!

Good luck with your pitty party.

[bain_sidhe]

46. I'm not sure that they're convinced that she can't win.

But I am. So I'm trying to look beyond all of that, and trying to figure out how best to bring them into the fold. IMHO, demanding their capitulation, right now, today, and sneering at them for feeling hurt, isn't it.

[Jamastiene]

38. Amen. n/t

[SaveOurDemocracy]

40. You have it exactly right, though they'll never admit it. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

48. Oh, fuck. Yet another person somehow equates real life with what happens here.

Get a goddam clue. Get out of the house and away from here. Make real friends.

[Telly Savalas]

49. If you think McCain would make a better president, then vote for him.

[Cha]

50. You sound like a victim.

hilary is the vilest who has brought all this down on her head and now you're crying "foul". :nopity: :nopity:

[joeprogressive]

51. Yeah that is right. We aren't running for POTUS, Obama is.

Quit whining and crying. If you want a republican as pres. for another 8 years to get back at anonymous internet posters, then defect. That makes a lot of sense.

[shomino]

54. Clinton only encouraged such behavior

By taking the low road in her campaign with attacks against Obama. Say what you will about Obama's SUPPORTERS, but the man himself has been very gracious and respectful to Hillary Clinton, even in the face of such attacks.

I wish I could say the same for her towards Obama.

[Seabiscuit]

55. That's what I have seen as well. Its for Obama and his campaign to reach

and bring over the Clinton supporters. It would be the smart thing to do.

[purji]

56. would you like me to send flowers and candy?

I could woo you.
Of course if you are a man my husband believes beer and bacon are a good substitute.

[bain_sidhe]

58. Yes please!

But you can skip the flowers, I grow my own. I'm init for the candy!

Although, even though I'm female, beer and bacon ain't a bad idea either...

Seriously, if you've read the thread, you know by now I'm not looking to be wooed, I'm just saying let it be for a bit before demanding unity. Most Clinton supporters will come around, and those who don't, well, I have to wonder about their priorities. But to demand that they "quit whining and surrender" when the wounds are still fresh (and still being inflicted) doesn't help the cause of unity, it hurts it.

[Orsino]

59. Good luck with McCain as a strategy.

At some point, you may decide to forget the slights of a few Internet meanies, and make up your own mind about whom to support.

[JerseygirlCT]

61. And plenty from the Clinton supporters behaved in precisely the

same way - to my eyes, more in fact.

So... that's ok? She's lost, so Obama supporters who behaved badly should be the only ones to have to step back, apologize and move forward?

I don't think it works like that.

Plenty of people on both sides got pretty passionate about this primary. If we're going to come together, it can't remain an argument about whose feelings are most hurt.

Just look at the facts: support the Democrat, or find yourself facing 4 more years. And several crucial Supreme Court nominations.

[Skip Intro]

63. K&R. They don't know now what they've done.

But I think it will become clear as the next few weeks and months pass.