Speaking only for myself, as a Clinton supporter, I don't need any apologies

[ruggerson]

I don't need any Obama supporters reaching out to me with olive branches. We're all Democrats, we're all adults (or most of us are) and it's been my expectation all along that we would all end up voting for the eventual nominee.

For those of you that have been respectful to each other and fought this fight with good humor, grace, respect and the occasional (or more than occasional) snark :), I've always appreciated your words and your thoughts and your ideas - it's why many of us keep coming here.

For those of you that have called candidate's supporters pejorative names, sought divisiveness at every turn, disparaged opposing candidates with unforgivable language and deep hostility, please keep both your olive branch and your apologies. We all have witnessed your behaviour for many long months now, it's been a very clear insight into your character. Apologies from the worst of you, replete with the "excellent post" responses from your compatriots ring hollow and honestly do nothing to repair any of the ill will you have created. Rather than apologize, maybe it's better to take some time to reflect on what kind of human being behaves like you've behaved for the last few months.

I have a number of Obama supporters as friends in real life. They are honorable and good people, and the disconnect between you and them is stark. Obama himself is a generous soul and has good instincts, and, again, the difference between him and you is stark.

We're close to the time where we start focusing on McCain, and it's a major relief for all of us to be able to start hammering on the real enemy. To those of you who have been worthwhile adversaries and competitors in this historic nomination battle, I am happy as hell and honored to be on the same team with you and look forward to the twists and turns and unforseen battles with the Republicans that lie ahead of us.

Let's CRUSH John McCain!

[washingdem]

1. Amen. We are going to destroy McCain. He's a good guy, but he's past his time.

[FatDave]

24. Well, you're half right.

:evilgrin:

[Shae]

54. Whether McCain's a good guy is questionable. . .

Cliff Schecter (The Real McCain) in his Buzzflash interview says:

Because his temper – I can go through numerous cases that are both publicly known and recounted to me for my book, both by on-the-record sources, off-the-record sources – a variety of them. He is what most people consider dangerous and frightening. Some people say it may be an after-effect of Vietnam. I’m not a psychologist and I can’t say whether that contributed. But this is a guy that was known for his temper in high school; his nickname was McNasty. It’s been a long-term thing with him that he enjoys degrading people. He has a very violent temper towards people when they disagree with him.


http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/107

[Orsino]

55. And we should factor in the decades of Republican corruption, too.

It includes a lot of betrayal of his precious veterans, as well as the rest of America and the world. Next to all that, whether or not he could be described as a "nice guy" seems insignificant.

[washingdem]

57. I was speaking relatively... for a politician, and a Republican at that, he's not a bad guy.

[shanti]

77. no

not even relatively speaking!

[washingdem]

103. Look guys, I hate McCain the politician too, but...

He gave us 5.5 years of getting tortured every day in 'Nam. He's not an evil human being. He's just a moron when it comes to policy, and shadier than his reputation when it comes to politics, but let's be fair. All things considered, he's not a bad guy, just wrong.

[mcg]

83. McCain is not a moderate, read this ...

The Right's Man, By Paul Krugman, The New York Times,Monday 13 March 2006
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/58/18351

It's time for some straight talk about John McCain. He isn't a moderate. He's much less of a maverick than you'd think. And he isn't the straight talker he claims to be.

Mr. McCain's reputation as a moderate may be based on his former opposition to the Bush tax cuts. In 2001 he declared, "I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us."

But now - at a time of huge budget deficits and an expensive war, when the case against tax cuts for the rich is even stronger - Mr. McCain is happy to shower benefits on the most fortunate. He recently voted to extend tax cuts on dividends and capital gains, an action that will worsen the budget deficit while mainly benefiting people with very high incomes.

When it comes to foreign policy, Mr. McCain was never moderate. During the 2000 campaign he called for a policy of "rogue state rollback," anticipating the "Bush doctrine" of pre-emptive war unveiled two years later. Mr. McCain called for a systematic effort to overthrow nasty regimes even if they posed no imminent threat to the United States; he singled out Iraq, Libya and North Korea. Mr. McCain's aggressive views on foreign policy, and his expressed willingness, almost eagerness, to commit U.S. ground forces overseas, explain why he, not George W. Bush, was the favored candidate of neoconservative pundits such as William Kristol of The Weekly Standard. ...

[lumpy]

69. ..." McNasty , and..."enjoys degrading people"

This well describes many of Obama supporters we have had the displeasure of putting up with.

[Frisbee]

84. Hold on there...

I am the first to admit that our veterans deserve the best of care and treatment for their service and sacrifices for our country, and the way they have been treated by the Bush Administration is nothing short of appalling. But I am sick and tired of this feeling that somehow that means they can't called out and criticized because of that service, especially when they decide to become a public figure. I thank John McCain for his service and sacrifices, but that does not mean that now that he is running for POTUS I am going to say he's a good guy. He's not. He's a Bush-Cheney wannabe. They say Hillary was pandering on the gas tax holiday. This guy says WHATEVER he thinks his target audience wants to hear, hell, he changes position hour to hour at times. He kisses up to the absolute worst of the right-wing Christian hate-mongers (some of which he used to call agents of intolerance, which was dead on), he is willing to continue sending the youth of our country into Bush's meat grinder for oil (his words), and he wants to make Bush's tax cuts to the most wealthy of Americans permanent while the poor and middle class are struggling just to keep their homes and put food on the table. What did he do about the guy who's campaign said he fathered an illegitimate child with a black prostitute and committed treason while he was a POW? Well he celebrated his birthday party with him while people were dying in New Orleans, and he went to the White House to accept his endorsement. He has defended the warmonger in chief at every turn, when no one else would. He is either a coward, afraid to stand up to the man who allowed the false accusations to be made, or is so hungry for power that he is willing to look the other way no matter what to get that power. No, John McCain is NOT a "good guy", he is a poster child for all that is bad about the GOP, and he is a VERY bad man.

edited for spelling.

[ruggerson]

92. to say nothing

of the SC justices he would appoint if given the opportunity.

[Frisbee]

94. Another important point,,, n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. Great post and...

I hope I'm not one that falls into the latter category.

[grantcart]

3. well put

[Umbram]

4. Great post.

I've enjoyed the snark and sparring. I look forward to applying it to **FAR** less intelligent people: McSame supporters.

I am really looking forward to moving forward.

I hope those that feel the need to take online discussions on a very, very emotional level are able to move on and remember the big picture. Democrats. Not just the POTUS - the whole enchilada - federal, state, local.

[hokies4ever]

5. Even if you don't need an olive branch

I still think it's nice for Obama supporters to provide one. Not all Hillary supporters will be like you. I think somewhere around 15-20% of them polled said they would vote for McCain. It's probably heat-of-the-moment talk, but it's nice to extend the olive branch to fellow Democrats anyway.

[Brundle_Fly]

18. then they haven't had a good look at mccain yet...

"My Friends"

and were done.

[pnwmom]

30. He's saying that olive branches from the truly nasty are meaningless.

And I agree.

Those branches will probably be covered in thorns anyway.

[Symarip]

6. We're all Democrats.

Period.

I don't apologize for anything and I wouldn't expect an apology from someone I disagree with. Truth be told, if this is truly wrapped up as it feels like it may very well be, this whole process has probably helped us more than anything. Anyhow, I have a great deal of respect for good people no matter who they vote for, on the interwebs or in the less electronic world.

Let's kick some Republican ass!

[HopeforChange]

7. Thank you. I have some very good friends who are Clinton supporters

We will come together. I know we can and we will be proud to support Obama together in the end.

[Wetzelbill]

8. hell yeah

[MadBadger]

9. I've been both...So I guess I sometimes have character issues.

But you've always been one of the good ones...Lets Crush McSuperFuckinOldandLame

[Guaranteed]

10. I don't think anyone needs to apologize for fighting the good fight, but

we DO need to forget the shit, once and for all, stop fighting and move on to the fun stuff.

[lumpy]

67. It hasn't been a good fight at all. I have never , but never, heard

any good Democrat say vicious things about either Clinton on this forum before this campaign. I guess this is the example of the NeoDemocrat. Vicious, surly and disgustingly hateful. Great show of ignorance on their part. I will not pander to them at all for their disgusting behavior.

[RainDog]

68. I've been on this board for a while

and I have consistently heard negative and vicious things said against the Clintons on this forum. whether that's good or bad isn't the issue. you've probably noticed it more now because it involved your primary candidate.

but I think it's important to note that before Obama ran there were plenty of people who talked about their "issues" with the Clintons. Even more who have talked about their "issues" with the DLC. I realize there are lots of hurt feelings, but it's good to have a reality check about that particular remark.

You cannot blame that on Obama supporters alone.

[lumpy]

74. Been here for a long while. I realize there have been issues by

posters regarding the Clintons in the past. I have had issues with both Clintons, and made myself clear without resorting to calling them names. There was a time that anyone using invectives and vicious slurs against anyone would have caused them to be tombstoned. And you know why? Because allowing this affects rational discussion in a very negative way and downgrades the effectiveness of discussion. It's a pity, I know some good Dems who have decided to forgo even coming to DU because of this.
Very simply, I have absolutely no respect for the viciously negative views expressed against Hillary Clinton and no respect for those who have used them.

[NBachers]

95. Hear, Hear

Amen!

[malik flavors]

11. Hillary's done a great job. Whoever is the nominee we need to band together, for sure.

[Forkboy]

12. I like the cut of your jib.

And I LOVE this...

Let's CRUSH John McCain!

Damn straight! :thumbsup:

[tammywammy]

13. "Let's CRUSH John McCain!"

Exactly.

;)

[cbayer]

14. I would choose you to be in a foxhole with anyday.

anyday.

:hug:

[ruggerson]

37. and vice versa

:-)

[bhikkhu]

15. "happy as hell and honored to be on the same team"

I think that describes a bunch of us. Thanks.

Listening to this this good evening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD78i6eoGkM&feature=related

it seems to fit...

[liberaltrucker]

99. Thanks for the reminder

Fits perfectly!

:toast:

:hug:

[Raine]

16. Nice post...

:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

17. Good enough for me!

[mmonk]

19. Crushing McCain is good. In fact, that's what everything HAS to come down to.

[Writer]

20. I agree. Fight on, but spare me the aptly timed kindness.

The true mark of character is not when a person succeeds but when a person meets challenge. And many of you scoffed at your challenges with a furrowed brow and a petulant scowl.

~Writer~

[Window]

21. Good post.

Peace:thumbsup:



:kick:

[libnnc]

22. Grampy McNutter is toast.

Dry. Charcoal. Toast.

Onward.


:patriot:

[DerekJ]

23. Group hug

:grouphug:

[tishaLA]

25. here's to you ruggerson

now...let's go crush mccain.

[Colobo]

26. That's the spirit!

[TheWraith]

27. Excellent. Welcome on board.

As an Obama supporter, I don't need any apologies either. All I require is that the Clinton supporters either jump on the wagon, or leave. The former is enough to demonstrate that they're good and loyal Dems; the latter option is for the dedicated haters who won't give up.

I'm sure we'll see an extensive round of tombstoning once the admins close down GDP, and I admit I'll take a lot of pleasure in some of those. We've had some atrocious behavior here, some of which hasn't been fully dealt with due to the lax restrictions on GDP.

[ohioINC]

97. I'm used to failure

Gore had his presidency stolen. Kerry was cheated out of Ohio. I was a Clinton supporter but she lost to Obama in the end. If Obama does win, then the republicans will steal the election again. It's very hard to get excited about any of this. I have no reason to support Obama he's going to loose whether it is legitimate or not. "God damn America"

[liberaltrucker]

100. Welcome to DU

:hi:

Enjoy your brief stay!

:)

[ClayZ]

28. K and R

[pnwmom]

29. K & R. n/t

[K8-EEE]

31. AWESOME POST! K&R!!!

Let's ALL go after Senator McBombBomb!

[shaniqua6392]

32. McCain is all over the Detroit news market this morning.

He is holding fund raisers and a big town hall meeting today. We need to get started right away to beat him. We need to make sure Clinton supporters will vote for Obama or we are in big trouble.

[NashVegas]

33. Wordy Fucking Word

[dbmk]

34. As a foreigner (with a preference for Obama)

..I certainly hope this will be the consensus.

You guys have to win.

The potential the US has of being a world leader in terms of acting on behalf of what is best and most true in our common conscience as an international community - is astonishing.

We are talking everything from environment to preventing genocides and promoting peaceprocesses.

I truly believe that with the democrats at the helm, the world will again look to you with expectations - and not fears or disbelief.

You have GOT to make that happen.

Good post!
(and way more mature than could be expected given the last few months, I must say.)

[Apollo11]

35. Let's be honest. There have been dumb posts attacking both our candidates and their supporters.

Speaking only for myself, sometimes an apology can help the healing.

If I have hurt anyone's feelings, I will be happy to say sorry. :hi:

[futureliveshere]

36. Mostly agree, but think of this also

This is an anonymous site and many people get very very invested in the whole process and end up becoming very emotional. I have said things I regretted. I even posted a long apology when I posted something that became an HRC smear in minutes, and turned out to be false.

So please don't make the mistake of painting all the rude supporters with the same brush. Many of us need to now take a deep breath and focus on McConfused. Many of the rude supporters are probably very nice people in real life and came here to vent and rant.

[RichardRay]

38. Kudos, ruggerson...

CRUSH his ass, as Democrates united.

[madwivoter]

39. Very well said

:thumbsup:

[Teaser]

40. Class act

certainly classier than many on either side have been.

[seabeyond]

41. ya.. from an obama supporter.... ya. i agree with your post. reason

isnt it grand.

[kentuck]

42. Kick & Recommended !

Well said, ruggerson.

[Kittycat]

43. Whether you want it or not... Olive branch enclosed.

I'm looking forward to working with my fellow DEMOCRATS, going for - instead of feeling like we were working against each other. Many people here supported different candidates early on, I've honestly always been in the Obama camp (once I did choose someone to support) - but that doesn't change the fact that we have to work together to overcome the onslaught that is coming.

[d00mzday]

44. Well said! It's about the future.

A class act. You have a great spirit. The repukes want you to do what others have said, and thats to stay home and not vote come G.E. Stop playing there game, it is time to start putting away hurt feelings and selfishness aside and concentrate on getting this country out of Bush's hands. We have the kids and there kids to think about.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

45. I'm a Clinton supporter married to an Obama supporter. I've shown him

the horrible pictures of her posted here, one in particular of her tied at the stake, the not very veiled death threats and the vicious, vile name calling and he was appalled. Having been a long time DUer, I've been slowly reducing my time here, and once my Sen. Obama supporting hubby got a gander at the toxic nature of DU, he's actually expressed some reservations about my continued presence here, wondering about my own safety, based on the level of rage and anger displayed by some of the posters here.

Yep, after seeing me post actively here for years, he's concerned some whacked out, Sen. Clinton hating, name calling, death threat spouting Sen. Obama "supporter", will track me down via this website. I've met several fellow DU'ers in real life, and he's asked me a couple of times how much info they have about me. He's not one to get over excited by much, BTW, a Vietnam vet who can handle just about any situation, so his reaction surprised me, a bit.

I'm not worried,though, but I can see why he would be. He would occasionally peruse DU over the years,and found it informative and funny, although he's not the blogger of the two of us, for sure. He hadn't looked in here for a few months, and his horrified reaction to the threads and posts he saw recently is instructive of how its changed, here.

It didn't used to be that way. It didn't have to be this way. I've never,ever,ever referred to Sen. Obama in any manner that is disrespectful and certainly have not called him or his supporters names. He is a DEMOCRATIC candidate for POTUS, but that didn't stop the Hillary haters here from gleefully and maliciously attacking Sen. Clinton.

I'm proud to say I'm a Democrat, have always been a Democrat and never, ever, ever, fell for the silly illusion who called himself Dubya. I wonder how many of Obama's most recent "supporters" can say the same. And, I'm not talking about long time DU'ers here, who genuinely support him.

I can't imagine "just forgetting about" all the anger, hate, and hostility directed at Sen. Clinton, and me, as a supporter AND delegate. I won't obsess on it, or "hate" back, but I know what I saw and experienced. I'm not going to blindly accept that it was just "politics", as someone who had parents who both held public elected office when I was growing up,including a mother who was the first woman city council member in our city, I know "politics" and this was pure, unadulterated bile that was directed a fellow, longtime, Democratic Senator and her supporters.

I'm not going to meekly fall in line. Not me.

Those who supported Sen. Obama's candidacy while being respectful and civil to Sen. Clinton demonstrated the best of the Democratic party. Those who attacked, attacked, attacked, anyone who dared to support a Demiocratic nominee for POTUS,during a primary, any apologies ring false and insincere.

Rant off.

edit, grammer, clarification.

[lumpy]

75. Bleeding Heart, you said it better than I could. This is exactly

the way I feel about this fiasco. I am sure many of us who are appalled by
the behavior of some of the Obama supporters are unwilling to stand up and express themselves in the way you have. I can only hope that these offenders of decent discourse will read your thoughts and take a good long look at themselves and realize that they have behaved no better than those people that post on the most negative forums.

[Texasgal]

88. I can actually say

without any hesitation that "I" as an Obama supporter have NEVER uttered malicious rantings about Hillary.

I have maintained all the way that if Hillary becomes the NOM that I will support her NO MATTER WHAT.

This thing you speak of goes BOTH ways.

[NBachers]

96. Nice Post, BleedingHeartPatriot

So let's agree to bury the perjorative term "Hillbot" and vow never to use this word as an insult, ever again, on DU.

[DS1]

46. Both sides have had their share of screwballs

[lumpy]

76. Name one

x

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mindfulNJ]

47. classy:)

great post.:)

[TragedyandHope]

48. Thank you for the great post!

Congratulations on a well fought race!

On to November! McCain won't know what hit him.

[Phillycat]

49. God what a good post.

:thumbsup:

[myrna minx]

50. K&R n/t

[Pisces]

51. Couldn't agree more.

[Texas Hill Country]

52. a whole hearted K&R

[CindyKay]

53. I Agree 100 %

Thank You for Your Wise Words. We need to stop acting like Children. I am sure there will be Plenty of Angry Hillary Supporters & I know there are plenty of Obama Supporters that want to make fun BUT This Must End With Dignity & Respect on All sides so that We may Focus on the General Election & Kicking McINSANES ASS!!!!!!

See Now We All Can Have A Mutual TARGET ! Let's Come Together & Get McINSANE! :pals:

[Shae]

56. It'll be great

to be on the same side and stand together against the real enemy.

[ruggerson]

81. Yep, it will

[Egnever]

58. Honestly after hillary

McCain is going to be a walk in the park.

[Tom Rinaldo]

59. K & R n/t

[redqueen]

60. *sigh*

Another one that fails to acknowledge that there's no shortage of Clinton supporters (and even "no preference" people) who are are vile and hateful.

All the blame goes to Obama's supporters... again.

Can't fucking wait for this to be over.

[murielm99]

91. Please see post 61.

You have been one of the most vicious Obama supporters here.

[redqueen]

105. Vicious? Please, quot e me.

I'd like to learn from my mistakes. Please, remind me of my viciousness, so I can apologize for it sincerely.

[murielm99]

106. Why should I waste my time

if you can't remember what you said, or the vile things you have said here for weeks?

Do your own searching.

[redqueen]

107. So you were just making it up then.

Thought so.

[Neshanic]

61. Insincere apologies are the most repugnant.

"Apologies from the worst of you, replete with the "excellent post" responses from your compatriots ring hollow and honestly do nothing to repair any of the ill will you have created. Rather than apologize, maybe it's better to take some time to reflect on what kind of human being behaves like you've behaved for the last few months."

Nicely said.

[Maven]

62. Excellent as usual, ruggerson

K/R

[Pluvious]

63. Don't forget the Freeper Trolls ...

You can be sure many of the really nasty anti-O or anti-H posts
were not from actual Dems, but pranking Freeps, trying to get
us all fighting each other, and concluding to vote for McLame
if their choice fails to make the GE.

I can only hope we're not so easily manipulated...

---
"If people can make you believe absurdities, they can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire

[lumpy]

64. Great post, ruggerson. Obama supporters who have

denegrated Hillary Clinton most viscously (and continue to do so)should hang their sorry heads in shame for showing the famous Ugly American side of their natures.

[calimary]

65. Yes. We. CAN. CRUSH. john. mcsame! ruggerson, you rock!

And btw, regardless, this Obama supporter would STILL reach out to you with a hug.

I started in the Clinton camp, once upon a time, and I still find a lot to admire about her. Up til last night, I'd started on this exercise with myself - to come up with a lot of reasons why I could support her. And there were many reasons. Hell, it still may come to that. Who knows? I kinda don't think so, but I'm ready to join her if need be, just as I'm eager to push ahead for Barack. I'm hoping that eventually all this temporary animosity will be forgotten, since we ALL have "other priorities" to tend to eventually.

Let's CRUSH john mcsame!!!!!

:hi:

[faithfulcitizen]

66. great post!

[JuniperLea]

70. How sad is your OP

You don't think anyone here can have a change of heart, and offer a sincere olive branch?

How sad to be that far gone, and lost in one's own cynicism.

This OP is nothing but a big fuck you to some who may have been sincere. How sad.

[Fluffdaddy]

71. I don't need your stinking apologies

I will vote for the Big O because I'm a Democrat. But he can't win in the General.
I feel this in my gut.

[4themind]

72. Great post ruggerson,supporters on both sides have thrown mud but in the end

as long as we can brush the dirt of our shoulders and soldier on together when it counts, nothing can beat us

[izzybeans]

73. I tried to limit it to snark but on occassion I let my emotions get the best of me.

If you and I ever had an exchange like that I'm glad we are still allies.

[CTLawGuy]

78. hooray! Let's!

I look forward to seeing Hillary being a leader in the Senate pushing for health care and jobs.

[EFerrari]

80. Very generous and very well said, ruggerson.

This has been an extraordinary contest that people will study for a long time. And none of it has been easy.

[Lucky 13]

82. Kick.

Thanks for the great post.

[Old and In the Way]

85. Indeed, you get it, ruggerson.

I'm for Obama, but if Clinton should win, I'll be working my butt off to get her elected. Many of us have been around the primary block more than a few times....it's almost funny how people can can get so caught up in the personalities trap. Honestly, I think this has been one of the most civil primaries conducted by the 2 principals, given the stakes (financial and political) that they are operating under. I almost pity the winner and the mess that they'll be saddled with.....

Can't say I have always agreed with your opinions, but I do respect and value your contributions here.

Let's CRUSH John McCain!

[Sunnyshine]

86. K&R - Thanks for saying that so eloquently.

Crushers UNITE! We do have a long road ahead of us, but we are a determined bunch. B-)

[quakerboy]

87. Heres To crushing John McCain

If he has forgotten to take his multivitamins, it may be easier than anticipated. And I hear angry people tend to be more brittle, as well.

[ladywnch]

89. .....I have a number of Obama supporters as friends in real life......

some of my best friends are Obama supporters! LOL


sorry, couldn't resist the cliche'

Great post. We'll join forces to destroy McCain and the Republican machine!!!!! WH & Senate both!!!!

[Number23]

90. Names Please??

We all have witnessed your behaviour for many long months now, it's been a very clear insight into your character.

For us curious types??? O8)

[Lord Helmet]

93. sounds to me like you forgot to wear your cup

that or you're blind from condescension for people that don't agree with you -
people are going to move on from this crap to the GE either way

[liberaltrucker]

98. An olive branch from a real Democrat

:hug:

I opposed Senator Clinton for my own political reasons.
Race, gender didn't matter. But NEVER did I disparage her
or her supporters. We Democrats MUST unite behind our nominee
in a common cause-defeating the Repukes in November.

I'd say the same thing if the situation were reversed.

ON TO VICTORY!!!!

:dem:

[NickMorgan]

101. lovely post -- let's raise a toast! nt

[RiverStone]

102. I've got some extra hammers if ya need them!

Thanks ruggerson for a classy and positive post.

We need your tenacity this fall - great to be working together. :hi:

[nvme]

104. it has been rough

Now the real work begins. GO DEMS!

[shomino]

108. HEAR HEAR!!!

Great post. I am so ready to put this divisiveness behind us and move forward...

Democrats in '08!!! (Hopefully Obama) ;)