Can someone please help me understand this?

[Tim4319]

If both Barack and Hillary agreed to abide by the rules that if Michigan and Florida move up their primary dates, they would not seat these delegates. How come Hillary continues to claim victory in these two states? I was listening to the Steve Harvey Morning Show this morning and she said that with FL and MI, she has taken over the lead.

This is not the first time I've heard her say this! Why is she saying this if it is not true? Please explain?

[scheming daemons]

1. because she will lie, cheat, and SAY ANYTHING to win......

She wants a debate? She can debate with herself! She's changed her views on so many things, that she doesn't need an opponent to have a debate. She can look in the mirror and argue.

[WA98296]

3. Well stated.

[backscatter712]

28. Right wing authoritarianism for you.

If you're not one of them, you're fair game.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. She agreed not to campaign in those states

and she kept that agreement. She never agreed not to try to get them seated.

[baldguy]

9. Then the lawyers for the Clinton campaign have a different understanding of the agreement

THAN EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE!

[Hepburn]

11. LMBO....

...what a total load of Hillbot BS.

Aren't you ever ashamed at what you post? I am ashamed for you ... maybe that is enough.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. Then please show me

where in the pledge it says they can't try to get the delegates seated.

BTW, Obama broke the pledge by running ads in Florida. Clinton kept to the pledge.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. There is a formal difference between acknowledging an unofficial marker, "the popular vote" and...

...adding delegates. Actual elections were held in both Michigan and Florida (with both candidates on the ballot in the latter). Real votes were cast, certified and counted. Millions of them. Obviously the winner of the Democratic nomination is not officially determined by who gets the most popular votes, any more than the winner of the most delegates from Nevada or Texas was determined by who got the most votes in those States. The concept of "winning the popular vote" is a debate point, just like being ahead in poll match ups with McCain is a debate point. Adding up the popular votes in a State like Florida as an indicator of how popular a candidate is breaks no DNC rules, nor does it violate any sanctions. The rules and sanctions prevented the delegate selection aspect of those two primaries from being respected, but people still showed up and voted whether or not the delegates assigned as a result of those votes ever get seated.

[Tim4319]

5. Thanks Tom

One more question! Why did Florida and Michigan move their dates?

Thanks again for your enlightenment!

[WA98070]

6. Everyone, the talking heads anyway, thought it would all be over by super Tuesday...

and they wanted their votes to matter.

I feel most Americans are annoyed with the too much importance place on Iowa and New Hampshire.

[last1standing]

10. You forgot to mention the fact that she counts Obama as getting no votes in MI.

That means he loses out on an entire state in her counting. You also didn't mention that most Democrats either stayed home or voted in the repub primary because we were told our votes wouldn't count.

So the only way Hillary can win is by disenfranchising everyone who didn't vote for her in an entire state, myself included.

[rurallib]

15. Someone suggested the other day that African-American votes

should count as 3/5ths by Hillary.
:evilgrin:

[last1standing]

20. LOL! I think that was me.

That thread got locked, though, which is a shame. I thought I made some very good points there.

[rurallib]

22. My hats off to you on such an originalist take on the primaries

Worthy of a Scalia.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[last1standing]

26. *Ahem* It was a sarcastic comment.

I'm not so sure that Scalia goes in for that kind of thing. I used to think he must be joking but now I know better.

The point is that if Hillary gets Michigan's delegates seated without either an acceptable compromise between the campaigns or a FULL revote then it would be like counting African Americans as 3/5th of a vote.

[rurallib]

27. Oh I know. I about fell off my chair laughing when I read it

the first time. Sorry if you thought I was taking a shot at you.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. It's all "unofficial".

Personally I "count" Florida but not Michigan, although it's my opinion that Obama blocked a Michigan revote plan partially to prevent Clinton from winning a clean victory there.

[last1standing]

19. They've both been playing politics with Michigan and so have our local reps.

The problem is we needed a new full and complete primary or caucus that allowed everyone who was eligible to vote in the first one to vote in the second. Excluding anyone who didn't vote in the first ensured a win for Clinton and everyone knew that. It also would have left people like me disenfranchised as I could not have voted.

So is it right that Hillary wanted to take away my vote in a second primary? I'd say no. Did Obama work to keep the primary from going forward if it only included those who previously voted in the Dem primary, yes. I take Obama's side in this because if there was a new vote I wanted my voice included.

I don't think that is unfair of me.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. how many votes did he get in Michigan?

[last1standing]

29. So you're another who wants my voice silenced.

If you're willing to do that then you're willing to do and say anything just like your queen.

I have no respect for the likes of you.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. ah

only in Obamaland is wanting to have votes counted "silencing" the voters.

Delusional.

[rurallib]

12. Almost sounds like a Bush signing statement

Here's the rules everybody else played by and here are my rules and by them, I win!

[lisa58]

7. because she can't win without it and she just wants to win

[BlooInBloo]

8. I don't know why DUers give any credence to Clinton on this either.

[olkaz]

16. It's because we've entered an alternate dimension.

Haven't you noticed? Rules change ad nauseum, our best chance at a transformative leader is to be destroyed, conservative news sources are the only places to get information; We weren't paying attention and somebody divided a number by zero on their calculator.

The universe will never be the same.

[BlooInBloo]

24. :)

[Yossariant]

13. Count the votes! Don't count the votes!

[Secret_Society]

14. Actually the DNC rules...

are quite clear that in addition to Florida and Michigan, IA NH and SC also broke the rules by moving their primaries up. The penalty according to the DNS is a 50% reduction. The question is why the DNC punished Michigan and Florida much more than the rules called for and let those other states go. But, since they have let IA SC and NH break the rules and be seated fully, they should allow Florida and Michigan to be seated.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5730339&mesg_id=5730339

[mmonk]

23. It's called win at any cost.

Nothing new.

[TexasObserver]

25. It's simple. Hillary believes in lying and cheating to get what she wants.

She lacks integrity. All she has is raw ambition and the coattails of a once popular president.