If Rev. Wright were a DUer, he'd earn 100+ rec's per post.

[WilliamPitt]

Don't know if this point has been brought up here or not, but it seems pretty clear to me.

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”

100+ rec's.

“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

100+ rec's.

Maybe now, as an honest dialogue about race in this country begins, a dialogue called for by Senator Obama and a dialogue to begin in the United Church of Christ among 5,700 congregations in just a few weeks, maybe now, as that dialogue begins, the religious tradition that has kept hope alive for people struggling to survive in countless hopeless situation, maybe that religious tradition will be understood, celebrated, and even embraced by a nation that seems not to have noticed why 11 o'clock on Sunday morning has been called the most segregated hour in America.

100+ rec's.

Just sayin'.

[Bluebear]

1. Wouldn't THAT tick you off?

Kidding, kidding! :)

[quantass]

117. Never! Truth is always important.

[redqueen]

2. That's just the "cult".

The "herd".

Hmmm... what other slurs have I seen used?

[papau]

52. Wright said "Oh - that is just what Obama had to say to get elected"

[redqueen]

53. What?

:wtf:

[cliffordu]

3. keeeeked!!!

[PVnRT]

4. NUH UH REVEREND WRIGHT IS A HATEMONGER

C'mon, Will, it's not 2006 anymore, son.

[moc]

5. Sing it Brother Will

Just sayin',

[Maddy McCall]

6. Recs at DU are no indication of good writing.

It's clearly partisan in here, as far as recs.

Really, recs indicate nothing but "gotchas" in GDP these days.

[WilliamPitt]

10. Which is why I said "DU" and not GD-P"...and as for rec's not being indicative of good writing...

...well, I'm living proof.

;) :)

[Major Hogwash]

73. Hahahahaha!

Proof of something, anything.

LoL

[NanceGreggs]

7. A BRILLIANT observation, WillPitt ...

... just sayin'!

[JeffR]

8. Nice!

:kick:

[myrna minx]

9. Exactly. K&R n/t

[soleft]

11. But eventually we'd see him doing that clapping thing

And it would drop down to around 25 per post.

[Orsino]

12. That'll preach, brother.

Yes, indeedy.

[msmcghee]

13. Bullshit.

There is no white America and there is no black America. That's the wet dream for those who want to divide us into armed camps. Most Americans - black and white and brown and green - reject that crap and that's why Obama, who has failed to clearly reject that view - is sinking fast.

[WilliamPitt]

21. I ask with respect: do you know many Black people?

I do. And the perception that things are different and separated between the races, the amazing gulf between how one side sees reality and how the other side sees reality, is impossible to deny.

I apologize if my question offended. I did not intend it to. Perhaps our experiences have merely been different in this regard.

Cheers.

[msmcghee]

27. With respect, actually, yes. I know and count as friends . .

. . several very nice people who also happen to be black. One of them, an older gentlemen also happens to be a Tuskeegee airman.

Among my black friends, some are for Hillary and some for Obama. They all have different views and come from different backgrounds - and I've had interesting and polite discussions with both. I reject memes that create the expectation that one ethnic group or another in our society has a particular identity that makes them either victims or oppressors. In our society, such divisions are a political myth that only damages us as a nation.

There are wise and good people in all identifiable ethnic catagories - and there's assholes and jerks as well. Let's deal with people as they are and as we find them - not on the basis of their skin color. Progressive racism stinks just as badly as the RW kind as far as I'm concerned.

Added on edit and after thinking more about your comment for a while: If the black folks you know subscribe to the white America / black America dichotomy - perhaps they are your friends because you do too - not because their views are the dominant or exclusive views of black Americans. Having worldviews in common is certainly a valid reason for friendship.

[glowing]

66. The divisions are created to keep the top at the top... Its all created

to keep people fighting with one another, instead of working with one another for equality...

I think Rev. Wright is correct.. "different, not deficient". We are not homogenous.. if we were we'd be robots. We are different and have different interests and aspirations. Its what makes society an interesting cool place to be in. BUT when the top %ers spend tons of money, time, and effort creating hate and fear towards a difference, then we cannot enjoy one another's differences. We create a divide.. those divides can last thousands of years (look at the shiite and sunni muslims--that divide was there long before the USA got there and planted the flag).

It is hard to shrug off some of these fears and hates.. some of us have been taught these fears and hates for generations. Its in each community. Its in each family. 1st recognize.. and then try and open your heart.. Love is the opposite of fear. AND that is what the idea of God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha.. etc. is about.. Its about a path for love and acceptance.. when that happens, there is "heaven" on earth. However formalized religion has done much in hijacking the original teachings and changing them into hatred and fear.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

35. my friend (who is black) said yesterday she thinks Clintons are funneling money to Wright

I thought more along the lines of a book deal, but she thought flat out handing money over.

Uh by the way, it was a Clinton supporter who invited Wright to that
Natl Press Club event.

Why do you think someone would do that?

Why would Wright open his mouth now, when Obama was on the virge of sealing the deal?

I know that man isn't stupid, so why did he do something that may cost us the presidency?

And more than one black friend of mine said he needs to shut up.

Roland Martin said that people very close to Wright BEGGED him to stop what he was doing.
BEGGED.

Read Eugene Robinson's column on this affair.

[msmcghee]

42. I suspect this is Wright's bid for a prominent position . .

. . as a "black America" leader and spokesman. Obama's political error in not distancing himself clearly from Wright gave wright the opening. He is using Obama as a launch pad for his rise in the hierarchy. I think Wright cares more about Wright and Wright's political prospects than having a black president - especially a black president who wants to play down talk about white America / black America, oppressors and victims - especially a black president who will not stand by him when his rhetoric is questioned by the media.

Al and Jesse - move over.

[AntiFascist]

110. I think it was a mistake for Wright to try and do this....

he may profit now because he is being used as a political pawn, but he also lost Obama, and that was the foundation for his launch.

[genna]

70. a Clinton supporter who invited Wright to the National Press Club

I read Eugene Robinson's WP column today. I understand where he is coming from. I understand where the moderate left is coming from too.

However, Obama needs to TOUGHEN UP. He looked like he was heart sick today because he had to do what he needs to do to take the White House. There are plenty of people, causes, and interests you will need to leave behind to lead all Americans.

I listened to the overwhelming criticism from the moderate left about Wright's statements yesterday. I listened at how they said he would need to step away from Wright even though Obama had said he had this 20 year relationship with him. I also heard alot of them say that even if he did divorce himself from the man, he still could not explain the 20 years.

You cannot defend why you see it now and didn't see what is intolerable now.

All we have seen so far is code racial politics. At some point, Obama is going to deal with BLATANT IN HIS FACE racial intolerance. Pennsylvania has NOTHING on what the Republicans will tar him with through the rest of this primary and into the general election. He needs to understand while he seeks out a new progressive mix of politics, he has to maneuver through yesteryear's racial minefields.

15% to 19% of Democratic voters in the Democratic primary will not vote for a Black candidate. Wake up and smell what America is serving you. TOUGHEN UP. Maybe Wright is wrong for this primary and this general election, but who are you going to have to become to win when 15% to 19% of Democrats WILL NOT SUPPORT YOU.

You might still be involved in a fight with Clinton at this point, but what are you going to do about that.

[ekwhite]

86. Thanks for the concern, genna

:sarcasm:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

100. Welcome to DU Genna. Whoever is the Democratic Nominee will likely win

and we haven't begun to campaign against McCain yet.

The sooner the better.

He looks as bad as Bush when you look at his votes and everything else.

[Blue_Roses]

77. well, come to think of it,

he was there for Clinton during Monica-gate:think:

If that was the case, then not only would she lose the nomination, she would lose her re-election seat in the Senate and the respect of the Democratic party.

[comradebillyboy]

94. You are quite right Mr. Pitt

a real honest dialog on race in America is long overdue. There is a very big difference in the way the average (not all, for the math impaired) white American and the average AA see our society. However that dialog may be dangerous to some candidates running for public office and few really want these divisive points of view brought to the fore. That is the real lesson concerning the Rev Wright dust up.

[jettison]

105. The question is slanted wrong...

You never ask someone like this if they know many black people. First, they will always say "yes". "Sure, some of my best friends are black people. I talk with black people about politics all the time."

Sure, they may know a few black people, and they may have talked to them about politics, but that doesn't mean that they have any kind of real understanding of the black community. People are chameleons. Generally, a black person in a white enviornment attempts to fit in just like a white person in a black enviornment would, and black people have had to do this all their lives just to attempt to fit in and not "piss off whitey". If you're surrounding yourself with 100s of white people, and three of those people "just happen to be black" as it was put, then you are not getting the real black experience.

Unless you've been in a black church on Sunday, then you don't know. Unless you've lived in a black neighborhood, gotten to know your black grocer, made real friends with your black neighbors, etc., then you don't know. All you know are the polite plesentries which pass as "race relations". It's bullshit.

And it's incredibly unnerving to hear all of the pundits out there, all of the talking heads in the media talking like there is no such thing as racism any longer. "What race problem? I see blacks everyday, at least 6 or 7 of them are walking down the street as I whiz by them in my car. And thanks to affirmative action at my work, we even hired a couple of token black people! I never, ever have a problem with them. No racism exists!"

What a sheltered little world. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't exist. And just because all of your white buddies get annoyed when a black man says that racism still exists, you agree, and then get annoyed that a black man would dare say it.

The big mistake comes from those that believe Rev.Wrigth to be an aberration. He's not. He just speaks what's really on his mind.

[msmcghee]

120. I never claimed to have "any real understanding" . .

. . of black people or anyone else. But obviously, you seem to have me all figured out. Really, the intellectual level of discussion is here is about at the 15 year-old level.

[jettison]

121. If you can't debate, then ad hominem.

At what age does that put you?

[msmcghee]

122. You comment was addressed to WillPitt, not me.

So there was no debate underway. I did however make a general comment about the level of discussion here since you referred to me in an insulting way in the third person. If you want to debate me then address your comment to me. If you do it with reasonable courtesy and there is something of substance there - I'll first be surprised and then I'll probably return the favor.

[cali]

41. bullshit. your post that is. there is racial division in America

And sorry, Obama isn't sinking- fast or slow. Today two more SDs endorsed him. Yesterday another two. Hill has been endorsed by 1 SD since Wright addressed the NAACP. Obama is polling ahead of Clinton by double digits in the new Rasmussen NC poll. Tough shit for all you hillworlders, but there's no indication that Obama is sinking. He's still on track to win the nomination. Oh, and stop conflating Wright with Obama. His attending church at Trinity for *gasp* twenty years, still doesn't make him an ideological clone of Wright.

Will you vote for Obama if he's the nominee?

[msmcghee]

46. See my post above. I definitely do not see Obama . .

. . as a clone for Wright. Neither does Wright. That's why Wright has no problem possibly wrecking his prospects.

And yes, I plan to vote for whatever candidate wins the Dem nomination - unless something unimaginable happens between now and November.

Added on edit: I think Obama made a political mistake which kind of points out his inexperience. He thought he could trust Wright to tone down his rhetoric until after the election. By retaining his membership in the congregation - Obama hoped to garner strong support from those who are ideologically committed to the white America / black America view of politics and who would see his membership as earning that support - which apparently is a significant group. Obama made the mistake IMO of assuming that another politician (Wright) would want to respectfully ride his coat-tails rather then step on him to get ahead. By not putting Wright in a position where he could not damage him first - Obama made a serious political mistake.

He (his campaign) played the race card in S. Carolina and went for the royal flush when he could have held that card and gone for the open house. Now that hand is playing out. Face it. Obama screwed up.

[genna]

76. There is a significant difference between theologians and politicians.

I think most people know that pastors purport to speak for God and politicians purport to speak for the people they represent.

I read and reread this analysis a few times to see if I understand the gist of it: "He thought he could trust Wright to tone down his rhetoric until after the election. By retaining his membership in the congregation - Obama hoped to garner strong support from those who are ideologically committed to the white America / black America view of politics and who would see his membership as earning that support - which apparently is a significant group. Obama made the mistake IMO of assuming that another politician (Wright) would want to respectfully ride his coat-tails rather then step on him to get ahead."

The argument rests on what you imply is Obama's political calculation to believe one thing in public and do something else in private. If you believe Obama the politician is capable of that level of wheeling and dealing, then why would you vote for him in November if he is the Democratic nominee?

If he lies about fundamental beliefs what is he good for, especially when the political winds turn on him?

You are also equating Wright's motivation to getting in good with Obama should he be the next U.S. president. Obama's motivation is to bring along those poor souls who stand to gain from a black/white divide.

If your analysis is correct, why didn't Wright keep quiet when Obama was leading? What possible reason would he use to sabotage his near acquisition of power?

I agree with the other posters who have asked you how your theory works in this political context.

If your world united view leads you to support Hillary, why is Hillary a better uniter considering all the cards she has thrown during this primary?

She has united women over the age of 55. Who else is a part of her coalition of uniters?

[msmcghee]

119. Politicians, pastors - whatever.

If Obama claims a close mentoring relationship with anyone going back 20 years - and was married by the guy and admits to attending his sermons over many years - then he's justifiably a source for those who want to know who the Obama guy really is - what makes him get up in the morning. First Obama defended him and his minsitry. Now, he's been forced to distance himself - throwing Wright under the bus as many here like to say - just like Wright threw him under the bus. That has to be disconcerting to anyone deciding who to vote for.

As far as my analysis - I am not a political analyst. I don't trust my own observations on these things very much - so I don't think you should either. I'm just saying what it looks like to me. It's just my opinion and is probably not worth much.

You said, "The argument rests on what you imply is Obama's political calculation to believe one thing in public and do something else in private. If you believe Obama the politician is capable of that level of wheeling and dealing, then why would you vote for him in November if he is the Democratic nominee? If he lies about fundamental beliefs what is he good for, especially when the political winds turn on him?"

Well, I think you have to be able to do that to some extent to get elected to high office. You have to be able to spin your beliefs a bit so that more voters will be able to identify with you. The good part is most people expect that and so discount the words accordingly. They do look closely however at a candidate's unscripted reaction to events they have no control over - like the Wright fiasco. That's where voters can really start to get a clear idea about who this guy is. Based on the Wright events I see more of a consummate politician there. Sorry.

You said, "If your analysis is correct, why didn't Wright keep quiet when Obama was leading? What possible reason would he use to sabotage his near acquisition of power?"

Just guessing again but I think Wright wants to be Mr. Black America - and perhaps displace Sharpton and/or Jackson to some extent. He thought he could get there faster and more easily by stepping on an Oreo - than by being beholden to one. He's probably right about that. (I have to say that I admire Wright's political instincts more than Obama's. This whole thing makes Obama look like a beginner.)

You said, "I agree with the other posters who have asked you how your theory works in this political context. If your world united view leads you to support Hillary, why is Hillary a better uniter considering all the cards she has thrown during this primary? She has united women over the age of 55. Who else is a part of her coalition of uniters?"

Hillary's longer experience in both life and in politics makes me more comfortable with her. I also admire politicians who can stand for principle even while doing the political dance that they all must do to get elected. She openly references her principles when she speaks about policy. I share those principles - as I thought most Dems did.

When Obama speaks he seems to avoid referencing any principles. It makes me think he doesn't have any. Sure, it's nice to talk in soothing platitudes but at some point you need to know what lies behind those words - and I haven't seen or heard much to enlighten me. I'm not impressed by woo. I keep wanting to believe that there's some there there - because he could very well be our nominee and I will vote for him before I'd vote for McCain. Obama's young and he can learn. I just "hope" his progressive roots are about true progressive principles and not just about "shoving it to the man". (I understand that many DU'ers think those are one and the same thing.)

[Blue_Roses]

79. you are so full of shit

how in the hell have you managed to stay below the radar for so long...:eyes:

[msmcghee]

112. I try to avoid forums where saying that . .

. . people in the discussion are "full of shit" fly around so easily. I apparently got into this before I realized what I was doing. I have to go do something now but I will try to answer some of the posts directed at me when I get back.

[Terran]

54. Black Americans have something in common with each other

that unites them as "Black America" in a way that doesn't exist among white people. I admire the principles you express, about dealing with individuals as you encounter them and not on the basis of skin color, but skin color is something that America forces us to recognize in many situations. It's naive to deny that, and I daresay there are very few black Amercians whose American ancestry goes back to the pre-civil war days who would say I'm wrong. I hate to say this but you sound like Colbert's character when he says, "I don't see color. They tell me I'm white."

[msmcghee]

56. Respectfully, I see color. I have had experiences in life that make me see color.

I don't deny that at all. It requires effort to accept that in ourselves and then force ourselves to not make judgments or behavior decisions based on those emotions. It requires effort to be carefully objective about such things while being aware of the emotions churning in our mind. I have noticed that the black friends I have make the same effort. I'm pretty sure their negative experiences dealing with "white folks" have probably been worse in some cases than my few negative experiences dealing with black people. None of us are perfect at it but it is something worth facing and dealing with AFAIC - because it allows me to know and appreciate more people than I would otherwise.

I understand that some black people assume that because I am white that I am their enemy. I refuse to assume that any black person (or any other person) is my enemy until they show me that is the case - in which case I will sadly but realistically accept that reality. All I can do is be responsible for my own attitudes and behavior.

[Terran]

57. agreed, all you say here

I do not agree that Obama has failed to reject the racial divide, I think he's done more than any other politician to address it. There *is* a divide between black and white in the country that comes from history, if nothing else; but there is no reason why we can't cross that divide easily and give each other respect. Treating each other equally is what's it's all about. I could go on and on, but no time atm, unfortunately.

[msmcghee]

62. I think we are mostly in agreement.

My sense is that Obama has tried to reject the racial divide both in his words and as a part of his platform. That's to his credit.

However, his campaign has used racial division as a weapon against Hillary Clinton. Maybe it is the people who run his campaign that encouraged him to do that and he just went along. I don't know how it came down but it did and he's accountable for it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's just been swept up in the frenzy of people idolizing him and sending him millions of dollars and with all the pressure he has allowed others to have too much influence in those decisions. But, I'll have to say that racism really pisses me off - and no matter who OK'd it - that's what it was.

That's not to his credit and reflects his lack of experience in high power politics. I'd prefer a more seasoned veteran as the Dem nominee but I may not get my wish. In that case I'll grab some of that hope he's serving and hope that he can beat McCain and the MSM and I'll hope that he really wants to cross that racial divide and was not just saying it to get votes.

His inexperience is showing - especially in this Wright fiasco - but I can see he's a smart man and so I'll also hope that he uses those smarts to learn on the job very quickly because he's going to have one hell of a mess to deal with. Finally, I'll hope that the hateful attacks I have seen in these forums against Hillary Clinton and against many of her supporters here will not turn off too many Dems and cause them to stay home on election day - because he's going to need all the help we and other Americans can give him.

[genna]

68. If he is sinking, McCain and Clinton have hit rock bottom

If there is no white and black America, why haven't we seen a widespread integrated 11 a.m. church hour yet?

I want the Beneton America Obama paints, but as long as I've been a Democrat I never knew we would tolerate the level of racial code which has been bandied about this primary. In my mind's eye, Republicans run campaigns like the NC Republican party has in that ad.

There is more at issue than Rev. Wright this election. We are facing what could grow into a depression.

If racial smear makes more sense than economic interest, Americans will not get further than the progress seen during the BushII years. Hillary has just as many more issues leading to smear than does Obama.

He was black in the beginning. At the end of the race, he will still be black. Whatever implications or inferences that can be drawn with that fact, will be drawn with that fact. I KNOW THIS IS IMPOLITIC but Wright does not make the inference or implication deeper than what was already there.

Either Obama can do the job on the merits or he can't. His ability is not determined by racial smears nor should it be the reason voters vote him in or out.

[Raejeanowl]

118. If He Humps and "Rides Dirty" In GD-P, It's All Over For Me n/t

[msmcghee]

123. I hate to say I told you so, but . .

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Sometimes, reality has a way of impressing itself on wishful thinking.

[NashVegas]

14. No Kidding!

It's a great demonstration of the utter disconnect between a portion of Obama's supporters and cold, hard logic.

Here's Wright being covered, uncensored, on CNN saying things that DUers have been saying for seven freaking years and the sky is falling?

What do people want more? The man or the message?

[islandmkl]

15. honesty, regardless of 'truth' being evaluated...

has NO PLACE in our MSM-have-we-told-you-the-latest-about-someone-who-has-absolutely-nothing-to-do-with-the-situations-of-daily-living-and-the-problems-we-are-facing world...

they don't even 'shoot the messenger' any more...they just play him over and over and do the MSM version of a crucifixion...

[blm]

16. I agree - most of DU, including HRC supporters would've applauded him 2 yrs ago.

We all would have stood TOGETHER in attacking the corporate media's treatment of him AND Obama if it was separate from the primary race.

[DemVet]

17. From the Kool-Aid drinkers, maybe.

[Apollo11]

93. I agree

I don't see myself recommending any of PastorWright's posts.

[Armstead]

18. But Obama wouldn;t want to trot us out in public either

We're just a bunch of tin-hat left wing nutcases.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. I'd certainly give him K&Rs.

[rucky]

20. Then none of us could ever run for President!

[jody]

22. But he couldn't win a national election. n/t

[Cant trust em]

26. Neither could most people on DU.

There's no way I could.

Liberal San Francisco, non-church going, non-gun toting, pro-gay marriage, latte drinker.

Watch my candidacy sink like a stone.

[jody]

33. Agree but at least we can vote our conscious. n/t

[Cant trust em]

49. I'd love to vote my conscience, but the rest of America won't let me.

Maybe some day they'll learn that we've been right this whole time.

[cali]

23. I'd rec those comments but I sure as hell would NOT

rec his comments about AIDS, about Natalie Hollowell, about Bill Clinton screwing blacks, about black children learning from the right brain and white children learning from the left brain. Not all of his comments are pearls of wisdom, and I agree with Herbert and Robinson about his seeking the media limelight.

[Cant trust em]

25. It's not his research about the left/right brain.

Didn't he get that from someone else? I was actually pissed off at CNN for trotting out one scientist to say that his point wasn't accurate. It's not like it was his point to begin with anyway.

[Armstead]

29. But he based his whole speech on it

If a white guy said that blacks and whites have different brain structures and neurology.....Well, imagine the reaction.

[Cant trust em]

43. There's a different historical perspective when a white person makes those comments

It echoes a little too closely to white superiority that we've heard in the past. I've never been into the race double standard argument. When a person of a different race makes the same statement it takes on a different meaning and context because it is heard in a different light, and the motivation for saying it was probably a lot different. I also understand that I am in the vast minority when it comes to that opinion.

[genna]

80. Racial code has different implications depending on who is saying what.

Your point is well taken.

Taking an example out of today's 'news', the guy who endorsed Hillary today said she would make Rocky Balboa look like a pansy considering how hard she fights.

Ouch! Human Rights Campaign said no thanks.

Keith Olbermann got a multitude of hits because he said someone should take Hillary in a room and only he should come out.

Yuck! Women writers for Hillary were in an uproar.

A candidate for Congress stood on the steps of the Capitol introduced John McCain by saying you all (I guess Democrats) can have your Tiger Woods, we want McCain.

Oh my gosh! Golfers united against this outrage (just joking)


At some point, it matters who says it. The only person I think who has gotten a SERIOUS pass on this has been Robert Johnson. I believe that he will eventually face some comeuppance from a wider audience if he tries to do more in a political context. All his rants will come back up.

[cali]

39. as far as I know there is no scientific consensus that

ethnic differences point to a child learning from the left or right side of the brain. Whether it's his point or not, he said it. And imo it's a dangerous thing to say.

[Cant trust em]

44. You're probably right about that.

He's going to take some heat for it and no matter if I agree with him or not, no one is asking cant trust em for his opinion.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

32. and I sure as hell wouldn'r recommend his humping the podium

would you?

[Hippo_Tron]

60. Regarding Wright's AIDS comments, I think Obama's first speech was dead on

I certainly don't agree with them and I know Obama doesn't either. But if I had faced the institutionalized discrimination that Wright did, I'm not entirely sure that I wouldn't believe what he does about AIDS. I think he's wrong but I can certainly empathize with him. I feel like his critics would say I have a case of "white guilt".

[glowing]

67. Bill Clinton didn't help much in uplifting black people.. and you think that

NAFTA crap is effecting you, its been effecting black men very harshly for much longer. Right and Left brain research has been conducted for a long time.. science asks for reasons to questions.. nothing wrong with questions and research.. do not be afraid of it.


AND AIDS looks quite manufactured if you check out the stats. I wouldn't doubt the CDC manufactured that, just like they did Anthrax.

[Cant trust em]

24. The Rev. seems to say a lot of things I agree with

Maybe I wouldn't have used the words "God damn America". But I certainly understood his point.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

30. you're leaving off the part where he threw Obama under the bus and labeled him as insincere

wake UP!

The guy has crab sydrome.

He's keeping Obama down out of his own selfishness and ego.

he doesn't represent THE black church.

An attack on him is NOT an attack on THE black church.

He isn't a uniter, he IS a divider - he emphasizes difference.

His academic lessons are not a positive message in politics and don't belong in politics.

He is doing everything in his power to bring Barack Obama down, and a President Obama could do more to improve race relations than any other single man.

Uh and Pastor Wright is NO Martin Luther King by any means.

Wright is very ego centric. He may have done good things, but if he causes Obama to lose the Presidency, then Wright may be guilty of some of the worst disasters to happen to our country and possibly our world.

He is Obama's worst enemy right now.

He spoke at that Natl Press Club upon an invite by a Hillary supporter.

[WilliamPitt]

38. That'd get him 200+ rec's

;)

[genna]

81. Responsible for the "worst disasters to happen to our country and possibly our world"?

Come on.
Seriously.

No. NO. NO!

At some point, freedom of speech means free speech. Speech we can't stand to listen to in some cases is speech we need in our discourse.

If OBAMA is tarred and feathered by his ASSOCIATION with Wright, it is not Wright who is responsible. I don't even think it is Obama's fault either.


It will be us the voters or the superdelegates who decide to invite a Republican into 4 more years of right wing politics. If we only believe in candidates because of who they stand with, then McCain and Clinton have also lost the moral clarity to lead.

Hillary for being married to Bill for 20+ years. (Don't get me wrong, I REALLY LIKE BILL CLINTON EVEN AFTER THE SOUTH CAROLINA COMMENTS + THE PA RACE CARD NPR INTERVIEW but if I have to put up with Bill's personal penchant for dalliances I might explode).

McCain for changing positions and associations in the last 4 to 8 years so he is aligned with Bush when he stood for something else for 20+ years.


I do think the American voter is smarter than relying on our worse fears.

[The_Casual_Observer]

31. So would Malcom X, so what?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

36. Eugene Robinson: Wright Goes Wrong

Wright Goes Wrong Eugene Robinson | The Rev. Jeremiah Wright has become Barack Obama's cross to bear.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802102.html

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

37. Crabs In A Barrel - Wright.. spitting in the face of the man who defended him...

Crabs In A Barrel
Andrew Sullivan 29 Apr 2008 10:17 am


One African-American supporter of Obama has had it with Jeremiah Wright:


To break it down, here's what Wright is doing: he's spitting in the face of the man who defended him, who said he was "like family" and did so without any undertones of private anger or resentment. He did so unconditionally. Now Wright is using his newfound notoriety to become the next racial demagogue, and who cares if it's at the expense of Obama? If CNN, MSNBC and Fox News are booking me as the Black Pat Buchanan in a few years, then it's all worth it!

Obama extended his hand to help Wright above the fray. Instead, Wright has pulled him back down into the barrel, making it even more difficult for the most talented politician we've seen in years to escape the politics of race, resentment and self-victimization that continue to condemn us all.


One response to all this is to despair. We're seeing many of the worst aspects of America's culture war come back to target the one politician who had the chance to get us beyond it. It is no accident to me that Wright is of the Vietnam generation that bequeathed us these divides; and it is no accident that the Clintons will eagerly pivot off it; or that the far right will exploit it; or that Obama's tolerance for a man like this for so many years will hurt him. And yet I refuse to believe that we have to remain captive to this syndrome; I refuse to believe that racial discourse has to be framed by Pat Buchanan and Jeremiah Wright; I refuse to abandon the hope I felt only a few months ago.

This moment is far too important to surrender to the forces that want to return us to the divisions and obsessions of the past. The only way past this, perhaps, is through it. Obama needs to repudiate Wright's grandstanding and reiterate in clear terms the rationale of his candidacy: that the past is over, and we have to move forward in ending this war in Iraq, restoring America's standing in the world, repairing the massive and mounting debt, bringing America back to the forefront of human rights, and bringing the best aspects of America to the foreground again.

The world is watching. And we still can.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/04/crabs-in-a-barr.html

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

40. AA friend on my list serve says: Throw Jeremiah Under the Bus Now

Subject: Throw Jeremiah Under the Bus Now
Date: Apr 29, 2008 8:05 AM

Hello all. My husband and I are an African American couple living in the triad area. This past Sunday, we had the privilege of canvassing for Barack Obama.

In light of Wright's media blitz, we are urging the Senator to throw him under the bus. Obama took the high road when he did not disown him during his amazing speech on race. However, the Rev. has not been returning the same kindness to Obama by staying out of the limelight until the end of the primaries.

In addition, the Senator needs to stop talking about race period. Before you guys start throwing stuff at me, listen. Obama doesn't win when he talks about race and race is a much sexier topic for the media to twist. He needs to push the 'Next Question Please' button when it comes up. No discussion or trying to explain to people his views anymore. Don't TAKE THE BAIT!!! The electorate demands soundbites. Here are some examples on how Obama should handle these questions:

George: You have been unable to distance yourself from the controversial pastor remarks. Does that mean you are un-electable?

Obama: The American people deserve to hear about things that will affect them in their everyday lives. Here is my plan to create more jobs....(talk until stupid interviewer interrupts again)

George: Senator you have not answered my question, are you unelectable?

Obama: As a community organizer, I worked with people to....

get the idea?

Use every interview as a chance to campaign, literally. See The George as a plant in the room who has given you free advertising time.

Then follow up on the stump with how the media keeps asking the same questions over and over again.

Answer a question once, definitively and when it comes up again, ask the questioner to refer back to your original answer(just briefly site the date and time so they can go look it up themselves). Then launch into your hopes for America.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

45. But would he get a Squirrel Award for it?

(Note: This is not conferring a Squirrel Award upon the OP, just a humorous reply to the topic. Thank you. That is all.)

[EFerrari]

47. He'd get mine. But then Obama would have to be angry and saddened at me, too.

lol

[The Night Owl]

58. LOL! {EOM}

[Bread and Circus]

48. I think you missed the part where Scaife bought out DU, we are much more "mainstream" now

:scared:

[suston96]

50. Any pro-obama post automatically gets 100+ recs. Nothing new here.

[ecstatic]

51. Gingrich has been saying that Wright is closer to a far-left winger than

anything else.

[Hoof Hearted]

55. So I guess DU should steer clear of baptizing babies then.

Looks like Wright is going to have to get his recs from under the O bus now.

[Uncle Joe]

59. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, WilliamPitt.

[crankychatter]

61. I'm interested in the flaws and merits of Obama vs Clinton

so I'll keep surfing

[Shakespeare]

63. I agree, with the exception of yesterday's NPC comments.

That was a big, sneering gauntlet being chucked right at Obama's face. That was different.

[ClericJohnPreston]

64. Do you rec this quote

Of Obama, not Wright:

"I have always been able to work together with Republicans to find compromise and to find common ground."

What a liberal......

[biggerfishsmallpond]

65. rec'd

target 100

[Zynx]

69. If that second one got over 100 recs I would be disturbed. 9/11 had nothing to do with race.

[EFerrari]

71. Not with race but with imperialism, which more or less requires

dehumanzing people to go forward. And that can take many forms. :shrug:

[Zynx]

72. I'm not going to lie. In my judgement that is a stretch.

To say that 9/11 "woke up White America" is dishonest and we all know it. Looking at every event as being a racial one is pretty damn absurd.

[EFerrari]

74. My post above tried to inform you that the comment wasn't about race

but about imperialism.

And, while 9/11 did not seem to wake up "white America", it did sharpen up a lot of us who had been watching the Empire and who had been worried about consequences, both here and abroad.

Eta: Wright listed the six empires under which the New Testament was written. It's not a wacky abstraction for him. And, historically, he's right. :)

Eta2: Let's see if I can remember them. Greece, Assyria, Babylonia, Egypt, Rome, damn -- I don't remember the 6th one.

[uponit7771]

75. I'M HIP! But on the other end he could've worked WITH Obama and been able to be more affective in...

...taking on establishment.

Obama is correctly stating that Wright wasn't too constructive to OBAMA'S goals.

[Tinksrival]

78. Between you, me, and the DU...

We could see what Wright was about. The rest of America? Not so much.
Barack had no choice, and Wright didn't make it any easier Monday

[genna]

83. Barack had no choice

He did not have a choice. Wright was unapologetic. He also mocked the MSM to their faces and on their turf.

Barack also has to accept the 20 years. He was in for a penny and in for a pound.

If he has turned away now because Wright has demonstrated to the US something intolerable, the seeds had to be there all along.

Tell me how he gets elected renouncing and repudiating during the political season when he had no problems for 20 years.

If he can make that work, OBAMA IS A GENIUS. We might need to make him a king for life and send him out to resolve the issue of Jerusalem for Israelis and Palestinians.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

82. Absolutely. But I And Most Of America Probably Wouldn't Want The Posters Doin It Each Time To Be

president either.

[mudesi]

96. A good thing Wright isn't running then! (nm)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. You Need To Learn How To Interpret Context. You Failed To Do So Here.

[McCamy Taylor]

84. Agreed.

[ekwhite]

85. K&R

[King Coal]

87. So, Pitt is against him posting here because he would ruin my record?

I'm flattered.

[GoldieAZ49]

88. He just got tombstoned by Obama, think O asked how he liked his pizza?

Wright will come back under the same IP

:rofl:

[CaptJasHook]

89. A fuckin men, nt

[AngryOldDem]

90. Good post, but a little obvious.

When a recent post here that basically called Obama supporters clueless ignoramuses got 19 recs and a lot of high fives from the usual crowd, that kinda told me that the criteria for Home page posts here are pretty damned low to begin with. That, plus I think name recognition has a lot to do with it as well. As in, "If it's posted by XXXXXX, then it's GOT to be good!" Not always.

[P0pEye]

91. Wright is ruining it for Obama!

I've read the bible quite a bit and I've yet to see where it says "God damn America".

This guy is an egotistical loose canon.

It is no wonder Obama is finally denouncing this guy.

He's hurting Obama's chances in November.

[Stuckinthebush]

95. The OT is full of Yahweh damning nations

I'm thinking the US would be a good candidate to be damned by the god of the old testament.

Of course, I think it is all hooey anyway.

[P0pEye]

103. The OT should be taken for what it is ...

The OT is God's view of sin. The NT gives us the "age of grace" where God gives us His Son as a payment for sins.

I won't bore you with any more, but I will say that if Rev. Wright wants to damn America, he should make room for Rev. Phelps that wants to do the same thing because "America accepts homosexuality".

Both are crack-pots

[Stuckinthebush]

116. Yeah, but Xtianity uses both as needed

The OT is often cited as evidence of what happens when god gets pissed off.

The whole book is interpreted differently depending on need and want.

Anyway, I'd agree that Phelps is a crackpot but I'm withholding judgment on Wright.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. Respectfully, That Demonstrates How Different DU Is From America

That's an empirical observation and not a normative one... If Obama agreed with his statements or thought that a plurality or majority of Americans agreed with them as you suggest DU does he would not have repudiated them...

[Kolesar]

97. Because our school text books are full of imperialist propaganda

I lost track of who has repudiated who.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. That's Why I Said It Was An Empirical Observativion And Not A Normative One

There were some things Reverend Wright said I agreed with and some things I disagreed with. But I always knew where he was coming from...

[Kolesar]

102. I need a little help with the "normative"

I agree with your empirical observation/data, but ... how do you mean? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normative

(note: this story is depressing the hell out of me)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. Sure

I am describing a phenomenon... I am not endorsing it or saying it's positive or that's the way it should be...

I agree with Reverend Wright's thesis that America is flawed and that it has not always treated people of color fairly... The problem is it is hard to "perfect" America... Heck, we can't even "perfect" ourselves...

I'm old school on race... I really try not to see it and believe with the same opportunities we would then fail or thrive on our own accord... As LBJ said "it's not a fair race when one contestant shows up in shackles"... African Americans aren't in shackles now but I want to see an America where we all have the same opportunities...

[bigtree]

99. kinda makes one wonder about what DUer Obama's response and reaction would be to his posts?

I don't imagine Wright would restrict his threads to these agreeable subjects you've posted here. Many a DUer has been ostracized for one or two errant words.

You have to know that recs from this forum, right now, are skewed by the majority support of Sen. Obama here. Even with that advantage, I think Wright would still find himself on the defensive if he brought his full racial repertoire. That prospect is as apparent as Obama's distancing himself from the pastor. It certainly didn't look political. He seemed sincerely bugged.

What is the need you and other supporters feel to rehabilitate or bolster Wright's image? It's an effort which is at odds with the candidate you support's very public distancing from the reverend and his clear rebuke of the man and his words.

After all of the defense of Obama's association with the man, is there no criticism of the senator for making such a fuss yesterday over a speech that most of his supporters were embracing with the same spirit that you do in your post? I've seen just the mention of Wright's name by the opposition treated as political exploitation.

In view of your feeling that some of Wright's rhetoric would be popular here, does Obama get any criticism for pushing off of Wright to insulate his campaign from the reverend's statements he says are controversial?

[LynneSin]

101. Well perhaps if he blamed the right people like pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays & lesbians...

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians ... the A.C.L.U., People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"

-- Jerry Falwell, September 13th, on The 700 Club about last week's terrorist attacks

:grr:

[ClassWarrior]

104. Perspective.

It's what's for dinner.

NGU.

[Seabiscuit]

106. Yeah, never underestimate the blindness, mean-spiritedness and sheer stupidity of DU'ers.

At least where defending one's candidate is concerned.

I've seen even stupider threads got more recs than that. The "Greatest Threads" displayed on the Home page every day is all the evidence one needs to prove that point.

[npincus]

107. Well not buying into some of his theories... right-brain/left-brain

style learning, HIV created by the gov't, etc.

[ClassWarrior]

109. It's not "right-brain/left-brain style learning." It's rb/lb style teaching.

One or the other usually dominates a culture. In our culture there was much fuss made in the 70s when right-brain style teaching was introduced, i.e. Montessouri schools. They're still considered by some to be "out there."

:shrug:

NGU.

[npincus]

111. Wright said something to the effect of that white children and black children

learn differently in accordance right brain learning styles - left brain; right brain responding to creativity (black children), left brain responding to logic (white children)- this is not verbatim but what I remember Wright talking about. He spoke about blacks and whites having different learning styles ("diferent is not deficient" his theme).

I am respinding to the OP and the views of Wright, not pontificating on my own views.

http://www.mathpower.com/brain.htm

[ClassWarrior]

113. No, he was talking about teaching traditions.

That's what I'm saying.

NGU.

[npincus]

114. wrong. Wright speech excerpts:

National Press Club Speech

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/28/transcript-rev-wright-at-the-national-press-club/

Black learning styles are different from European and European- American learning styles. They are not deficient; they are just different.


NAACP Speech

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/wright.transcript/

African and African-American children have a different way of learning.

They are right brained, subject oriented in their learning style. Right brain that means creative and intuitive. Subject oriented means they learn from a subject, not an object. They learn from a person. Some of you are old enough, I see your hair color, to remember when the NAACP won that tremendous desegregation case back in 1954 and when the schools were desegregated. They were never integrated. When they were desegregated in Philadelphia, several of the white teachers in my school freaked out. Why? Because black kids wouldn't stay in their place. Over there behind the desk, black kids climbed up all on them.

Because they learn from a subject, not from an object. Tell me a story. They have a different way of learning. Those same children who have difficulty reading from an object and who are labeled EMH, DMH and ADD. Those children can say every word from every song on every hip hop radio station half of who's words the average adult here tonight cannot understand. Why? Because they come from a right-brained creative oral culture like the (greos) in Africa who can go for two or three days as oral repositories of a people's history and like the oral tradition which passed down the first five book in our Jewish bible, our Christian Bible, our Hebrew bible long before there was a written Hebrew script or alphabet. And repeat incredulously long passages like Psalm 119 using mnemonic devices using eight line stanzas. Each stanza starting with a different letter of the alphabet. That is a different way of learning. It's not deficient, it is just different. Somebody say different. I believe that a change is going to come because many of us are committed to changing how we see other people who are different.

As I said, Wright spoke of right brain-left brain learning style differences between African Americans and shites (presumably European descent).