I've never heard anyone but old, white racists use the term "Race Card" until Hillary supporters did

[Dr Fate]

They are always going on and on about "those black people playing the race card again" and "they need to stop saying people are racist, they have their affirmative action..." blah blah blah.

Its the old time "reverse racism" talking point that I grew up hearing in the South- always from old-time racist types.

Using the phrase "race card" is designed to appeal to racists or people who pretend to think that there is no more racism against black folks.

Men who never once actually suffered due to any racism, btw.

The same people who say "why dont the black people shut up- havent we given them enough- besides, white people are not racist anymore-its the 'reverse racism' that is the problem now..."

"There they go again- playing the race card to get into our schools and take all our jobs..."

These are the exact types who that phrase is supposed to appeal to.

It's a term invented BY racists to appeal to racists.

I've never heard the phrase "race card" used by Democrats in my entire life until recently- now it is one of the favorite terms of the average Hillary supporter.

Can anyone show me a progressive or non-racist crying "he's playing the race card" against a black person before now?

Another question- if you use the language of racists to appeal to racists, what does that make you?

Doc

[Dr Fate]

1. Yo- folks giving me recs- please reply to the thread itself!!! n/t

n/t

[Lerkfish]

4. okeydoke: you're absofrigginlutely correct. "race card" is well understood by old racists.

and the clintons, by intentionally blatantly and transparently using race to beat Obama, and THEN accusing Obama of using the "race card", show themselves to be exactly what they are: people counting on the racism of others to draw in their votes.

[papau]

21. OK - race card played by Obama to chg subject from Hill's NH win - and "consolidate" base as extra

delegates awarded to black areas made winning black vote more important than any other group.

Obama did not "play race card directly" - he had David on the phone pushing ever comment by any Clinton supporter that could be stretched to "sensistive to blacks" as a race card- David played the race card - and it worked.

[Dr Fate]

34. Show me a progressive or non-racist using the term "race card" against a black person before now.

Show me an example of this language being used to appeal to anyone but a racist.

The term was invented by racists, for racists.

You know as well as I do that claiming that a black man is "playing the race card" is designed to appeal to white folks who harbor racist feelings.

Obama winning Black support and Clinton supporters trying to appeal to white racists is not the same thing to me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. Bullshit.

Why would anyone want to change the subject from Hillary's NH "win" - when she went into it the favorite by 25 points, and barely hung on with a 3 point win?

Though the state fell into her column, NH was an undoubted win for Obama - and it scared the shit out of her. THAT's why, the following week, Bill was in SC, dismissing Obama's lead there as being natural, since he WAS the 'black candidate' after all.

[Dr Fate]

62. Some prefer pandering to racists as opposed pandering to black people concerned about race.

I hate to put it so bluntly, but is that not what I'm basically hearing?

[Lerkfish]

2. proud to kick and recc.

:) although I miss your skull avatar.

[shrdlu]

3. Is it racism to claim racism...

where none exists? Just asking...

[ej510]

5. It's hard for some white people to see racism when they never experience it.

the ones that deny it are usually the racist.

[Lerkfish]

7. is it racism to accuse the person you just called another black man like Jesse Jackson

of using the race card?

I'm just askin.

can you, seriously, claim that the clinton campaign has NOT used racial references against Obama?

then don't stand outside during any lightning storms, is my advice.

[ej510]

30. I don't know if you are talking to me but if you

are I just want you to now that I am black I know there is racism in this country I experience it all the time in the good ole liberal bay area.

[Lerkfish]

44. nope, was talking to the other poster

somehow the wires got crossed in the hierarchy when you read it, I think.
you and I are sympatico on racism, as far as I can tell.

[Dr Fate]

11. If you use terms invented by racists to appeal to racists, is that racist?

My post has already asked this question in advance-
Is using the language invented by racists in a specific effort to appeal to racists, racist in itself?

[blm]

77. Doc - we are SO on the same page......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5645844&mesg_id=5645844

[democracy1st]

97. good job

[Catherina]

15. Where none exists or where you're too blind to see it? n/t

[jonestonesusa]

24. I think you're doing more than asking;

you're trying to discredit the claim of racism with the straw man conditional. Are you saying that racism does not exist in this presidential campaign? Why do you hesitate to make your statement overtly?

[EFerrari]

25. It's not racism to raise the question. It's racist to try to quell the discussion. n/t

[mckeown1128]

6. it was part of the republican lexicon...

now of course it is adopted by the Clinton half of the party... as a tool to use against Obama... hmm... would they be using this talking point if he were white...hmmm..

[Justitia]

43. Yup, along w/terms like "class warfare". -eom

[Dr Fate]

61. "Welfare" "affirmitive action" "Jesse Jackson" and now "Rev. Wright" are the same thing.

All are buzz words or code words to get a rise out of people who prefer to think that it is black people and their "reverse racism" that causes all the problems with race.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

86. Hillary managed to drop "Farrakhan" in at the debate.

It was like a trifecta of racist dog whistles.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Somebody used the term "white guilt" against Obama supporters here.

Right up there with "n***** lovers" IMO.

[Lerkfish]

9. this primary has certainly exposed the ugly underbelly of certain people

and it has not been pretty at all.

[Dr Fate]

12. I believe I first heard that term from Tucker Carlson or some other bow-tied GOP/media type.

It certainly wasnt from a DEM or progressive where I first heard about the concept of "white guilt"- and it is certainly not a term designed to appeal to non-racist DEMS- but the opposite.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

87. OMG you're right!

We're traitors to our race! It's so obvious and I'll be sure to point that out to anyone who uses it on me again.

[carolinayellowdog]

10. Big Dog-whistle

At this point, I don't care whether Bill Clinton is a racist, or someone who uses the language of racists to appeal to racists. The former can be excused perhaps as the result of ignorance compounded by cultural programming. The latter is nothing but pure unadulterated evil.

[Catherina]

13. I am so sick of those people

There are posts I read at DU that sound like Buchanan or Limbaugh wrote them.

I realized how naive I must be because out where I live, White, Black, Latinos, Straights, Gays, Christians, Jews, Atheists, live with no problem. It's been a real eye-opener to see how many Dixiecrats are still in the Democratic Party. I thought they'd all gone over but now I see I was wrong. AFAIC, I'll trade every Dixiecrat for a decent Republican who doesn't believe in obliterating people.

[carolinayellowdog]

26. If racist Dems were all down in Dixie

we would have no problem. Most white racists in the South are Republicans, and those who are Democrats are more than outweighed by the black voters down here. As David Sirota has explained, it's racist whites in states with a particular proportion of African Americans where the problem is most apparent:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/pennsylvania-the-persiste_b_98170.html

[Catherina]

52. It's funny you bring that up

Racism in the North always lurked under the surface. The had slavery in the South but in the north they had mean-spirited racism.

[Cant trust em]

14. Race card is just a synonym for playing the victim

It puts the onus back on the person who is making the race claim.

[Lerkfish]

17. um, nope. Its a well known and used term among bigots.

you can claim another definition if you wish, but that's the facts.

[Cant trust em]

20. That's what I mean, maybe I muddled my post

but it's like people who claim that others are using the race card are themselves playing a victim card. Like they're just trying to deflect that they're doing something racist. So they say that someone else is unfairly bringing race into the equation and therefore they aren't racist.

[Lerkfish]

41. my bad, I misunderstood your post.

:hugs:

[Cant trust em]

59. This is why writers have proofreading

so an independent source can come in and say that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

[Dr Fate]

22. I can assue you that Canttrustem is on our side, Lerk- but sure, lets clarify...

It's a term used against black people who are making legit claims of victimization or racism.

[Cant trust em]

28. Thanks for getting my back. NT

[EFerrari]

33. It's an obvious way to prevent a discussion.

I was surprised the first time I read it on DU on threads about immigration, but, whatever.

There may be people here who sincerely believe racism has been extinguished in this country. If there are, they are in for a rude awakening.

[Lerkfish]

40. thanks for the clarification.

:)

[Binka]

16. I Agree Doc The Race Card Is A Canard Manufactured By Racists

It is demeaning AND offensive. Also the term "playing a card" as if this were bridge or poker is dismissive. Playing cards is a GAME. I heard this term often from my relatives in PA when I was a kid. I hated it then and I hate it now, IMHO the whole concept of reverse racism is a travesty. Read Tim Wise on the subject he is very GOOD!

[Dr Fate]

19. Manufactured By Racists- and used specifically to appeal to racists.

It certainly wasnt invented by non-racist liberals to appeal to good DEMS or fight discrimination and advance minorities.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

80. I love Tim Wise

Whenever some dimbulb posts some crypto-racist b.s. I fire one of his essays back.

[union_maid]

18. You're absolutely right!

It's not just the Clinton campaign using it, either. The media seems to be accepting and using it indiscriminately. Things are going approximately to hell in a handbasket, public discoursewise.

[EFerrari]

23. Thank you. K&R

[ShortnFiery]

27. Two classic LIVING examples of thinly-veiled racists are Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan.

Ole Joe S. has a "southern charm" not all that divergent from Bubba Clinton, but the intent is clear. White entitlement ... Miss. Hilly is superior to those "angry black folk" ... especially Michelle is oh so ANGRY! :(

Watch for the catch words specifically "angry" and "arrogant" to replace the traditional "uppity."

Because of these biases, Barack Obama DARE not go too negative on Miss. Hilly. Therefore ole Joe and Pat can also EMASCULATE him for not attacking her ... but if he does, then he's being too "arrogant."

I despise listening to either Joe Scarborough or Pat Buchanan. They are the living, breathing examples of "white privilege" male.

[Dr Fate]

63. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

I can gurantee you those two you mention have used the term "race card" against balck people more than once...Clinton borrowed it from their ilk to appeal to the same people that the Repubs aim the term at.

As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

[truth please]

76. You are sooooo good and right

If he attacks her he becomes the angry scary black man. Michelle is angry but if she was white she would be passionate. He has been called arrogant so many times it is pathetic. The icing on the cake was being called a boy and racist people trying to clean it up by all but calling it a term of endearment.

[TahitiNut]

29. It's a very common right-wing whine.

It's like vampires (or cocckroaches) complaining about sunlight.

[Cant trust em]

31. as I read this post, NPR is talking about the race card. NT

[sampsonblk]

32. Yep: It's a term invented BY racists to appeal to racists.

You got that right.

[IndianaJones]

36. true...of course, I've never seen white people get so concerned over race issues...

in such a short period of time as Obama's supporters have. I mean, they've discovered MLK, racial inequality and institutional racism...all in the period of 6 weeks.

[Lerkfish]

42. bullshit. absolute bullshit.

1. I've been concerned about race issues all my life.

I just never dreamed I"d have to discuss it in terms of one democratic senator attacking another democratic senator. In short, the events of the day have brought the ISSUE to the forefront, but my CONCERN has been constant.

[Justitia]

45. Yeah, I'm sure you've really been paying attention too.

:sarcasm:

[Lerkfish]

50. oh, you're talking about hillary throwing her bookbag against the wall when MLK died, right?

yeah, that was opportunistic and ghastly, I agree.

[Dr Fate]

55. If you are talking about me specifically, feel free to back it up with examples.

Feel free to use any post from my entire history at DU to prove that I've held different views on racism in America until now.

[Cant trust em]

57. Ooooh, Skinner's gonna be pissed.

But those rules are for your protection.

[Catherina]

142. You're confusing them with the LIV crowd

Some people in this country are actually educated and informed.

Instead of bitching about it and feeling left out, study a bit about MLK, racial inequality, institutional racism and catch the fuck up with civilized people.

[Nia Zuri]

37. That's cuz they're mostly old, white racists

[jonestonesusa]

38. Going back to the O.J. Simpson trial

...that's when I first heard the term "race card," for Johnnie Cochran's defense of O.J. Simpson, including a particular method of defense calculated for black members of the jury (if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!).

Personally, I thought the evidence to convict Simpson was overwhelming, but as a mostly disinterested black observer, the evidence I thought was most damning to the prosecution was Mark Fuhrman, former LAPD detective now employed as a conservative talk show host. He testified to not recently using the N-word, and then in cross-examination it came out that he wrote a screen play with racial slurs and he was eventually convicted of perjury. Since Simpson's lawyers were experts at theatrics, they managed to tap into the differences in perception between African Americans and whites on the public image and procedures of the LAPD, and Simpson was indeed acquitted.

I'm sure some others remember this - the phrase "playing the race card" was a cutesy way to describe what happened in the good ol' MSM.

[2rth2pwr]

39. Gratuitous racism charges from Obama supporters after Hillary win?

check.

Same old, same old.

[Dr Fate]

56. I'll bite- show me a progressive or non-racist using the term "race card" before now.

The term was invented by racists and is being used to appeal to racists- but you go right ahead and pretend that this is something good progressives as well conservative racists should be doing.

[indimuse]

46. old white..huh?

ANYTHING "Racist" Began wit Obama and will end with Obama...He will LOSE again!!!

[Dr Fate]

58. I'll bite- show me a progressive or non-racist using the term "race card" before now.

You sound like those old white men I grew up hearing in the South:

"If anybody is racist, its the blacks ! It's called 'reverse racism'- they get everything their way and they are the real racists..." type crap.

And those are the exact people the Hillary campaign hopes to appeal to by using the language they understand.

Yeah-I said "old white" for a reason- it certainly isnt young white progressives or black people using code words like "race card" everytime race comes up as a legitimate issue.

[indimuse]

64. you are waaayyy wrong, poor thing.

lol!

[Dr Fate]

66. I'll bite- show me a progressive using the term "race card" to attack a black person before now.

Show me.

Until now-I've never heard anyone but white people crying "reverse racism" use it and other similar code words against black people.

[sandnsea]

47. What does a black man have to do to prove he's won??

If it were a white man beating a black woman, she'd have been kicked to the curb in February.

[EFerrari]

48. No kidding. n/t

[nomorenomore08]

49. Excellent point! The fact that Clinton is still hanging on proves that race is an issue.

There's another thread going around about how Obama can't go too hard after Hillary because of the race/gender dynamic. Gotta keep his hands off them white wimmens, doncha know. (very heavy):sarcasm:

[Lerkfish]

51. AMEN.

there, in one sentence, is the whole issue.

[Catherina]

98. Walk on water like Obama's being forced to do n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

101. Get 2024 delegates.

[DemVet]

117. Cry me a damned river, would you?

Obama doesn't WIN until he reaches 2025 delegates.

What about that don't you understand?

[OzarkDem]

130. He has to get 2025 pledged delegates

Its pretty simple.

[blm]

53. Bill knew EXACTLY who he was talking to when he said race card was played against HIM.

And knew exactly what he was doing when he denied he did it.

[Dr Fate]

67. Of course he did- it's only DU's Hillary folks who are pretending this is something progressives do.

n/t

[smiley_glad_hands]

54. K&R. eom

[tishaLA]

60. this has been my position all along

although I didn't quite say it that way. The first time I heard the term "race card"--the moment of its invention, I think--was during the OJ Simpson trial, when Johnny Cochran said what we all know to be true: that Blacks have a different experience in the justice system than whites (certainly economic factors mitigate this somewhat, but that is beside the point). And it is just dumb to talk about the "race card," if such a thing existed, being "played," as if the discourse in American politics isn't always-already infected with race either covertly or overtly. When Obama talked about the "original sin" of America being its treatment of race in the public sphere, this is precisely what he was addressing: the fact that race cannot not be a factor because its history in American politics is so overdetermined.

[Dr Fate]

65. I cant remember where I first heard "race card"- but I'm 100% sure it wasnt from a progressive....

....and certainly not used by a progressive to attack a black person.

[BootinUp]

82. But the OP has the facts reversed.

There is no way that "race card" came from the Clinton campaign first in this primary. Any use of it by them has been to defend against the charges hurled at them from the other side. Don't force me to dredge up threads to support what you must know as well as I.

[quakerboy]

68. as to the title

I don't know that the "Until" is appropriate in this title.

[Dr Fate]

71. Semantics aside, my point stands. n/t

n/t

[quakerboy]

75. True enough.

thanks for the OP

[Radical Activist]

69. "Playing the race card" is one of the most vile right wing terms out there.

It disgusts me. Its a dismissive way to claim that there is no racism and that anyone who claims racism exists is "playing" a game.

[Dr Fate]

72. Accusations of "Playing the race card" was aimed at "working class" voters- AKA poor white voters.

Note how the "working class" has now somehow exclued working black folks from their ranks according to Hillary/Media.

It's the "working class" people who "dont like the race card" after all.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

84. "Working class" and "blue collar" are code for white.

Because if black or brown people have jobs too then there goes their beloved strawman about how "those people" are lazy and on welfare.

[loyalsister]

106. Sort of like the standard use of "women and Blacks"

as if one can not be both.
Hillary's alleged strongest supporters who have been measured as white women are simply referred to as women.
While the the racial democraphics of Obama's supporters is consistently noted.

[goletian]

70. not necessarily racists, but definitely not real liberals/progressives.

"race card"
"free black pass"
wanting "states rights" instead of strict adherence to constitution

all bigot buzzwords. ive been posting on a forum thats predominantly conservative for years, and they love talkin about race cards. love it. and they absolutely love hillary. and they befriend the most recent hillary supporters, too.

[Dr Fate]

73. Maybe not- but what else do you call one who uses a term invented by racists to appeal to racists?

If not racist in itself, then certainly cynical and not geniuine.

[goletian]

79. if theyre trying to appeal to racists, theyre just very wicked people. - nt

[mrreowwr_kittty]

85. It's worse than being a racist.

Most racists are ignorant, fearful people looking for someone to blame their problems on. They're bad enough. But people who cynically exploit racism, while knowing all along exactly what they're doing, are more evil by orders of magnitude.

[me b zola]

74. K&R

[Dr Fate]

78. kick

n/t

[BootinUp]

81. Do we have to go dig up the sorry history of this

primary for you?

It was not the Clinton campaign that hurled that phrase first my friend.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

83. Link to where the Obama camp used the phrase first.

And no, 'racism' and 'race-baiting' don't count. Those have different meanings.

Race card. In the context that the OP is using.

Put up or STFU.

[BootinUp]

88. If the charge from the Obama campaign was "race-baiting"

and not "race card" I fail to see the importance of the distinction. I consider their meanings to be equivalent, I don't generally use either of them and I find them both distasteful when used dishonestly. You might win this argument on a technicality, enjoy it.

Heres a good recounting of the race issue in this campaign.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

First came the Martin Luther King-Lyndon B. Johnson controversy. Responding to early questions that he was only offering vague words of hope instead of policy substance, Obama had given a speech in New Hampshire referring to Martin Luther King, Jr. "standing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial" during his "I have a dream" speech. (This rhetorical formulation was reminiscent of a campaign speech delivered in 2006 by Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, another client of David Axelrod, Obama's message and media guru; in a later speech, Obama would repeat Patrick's rhetoric word for word.) When asked about it, Clinton replied that while, indeed, King had courageously inspired and led the civil rights movement, President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act into law. "Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act," she said, adding that "it took a president to get it done." The statement was, historically, non-controversial; the historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, among others, later said that Clinton "was absolutely right." The political implication was plainly that Clinton was claiming to have more of the experience and skills required of a president than Obama did--not that King should be denigrated. But the Obama campaign and its supporters chose to pounce on the remark as the latest example of the Clinton campaign's race baiting. Representative James Clyburn of South Carolina, a black congressman--neutral in the race, but pressured by the Obama campaign arousing his constituency--felt compelled to repeat the charge that Clinton had disparaged King, and told the New York Times that "we have to be very, very careful about how we speak about that era in American politics." Several of the Times's op-ed columnists, including Bob Herbert and Maureen Dowd as well as Rich, rushed to amplify how Hillary was playing dirty, as did the newspaper's editorial page, which disgracefully twisted her remarks into an implication that "a black man needed the help of a white man to effect change."

Clinton complained that her opponent's backers were deliberately distorting her remarks; and Obama smoothly tried to appear above the fray, as if he knew that the race-baiting charge was untrue and didn't want to level it directly, but didn't exactly want to discourage the idea either. "Senator Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson. I didn't make the statement," Obama said in a conference call with reporters. "I haven't remarked on it. And she, I think, offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act. She is free to explain that. But the notion that somehow this is our doing is ludicrous."

Meanwhile, below the radar, the Obama campaign pushed the race-baiting angle hard, rehearsing and sometimes inventing instances of alleged Clintonian racial insensitivity. A memo prepared by the South Carolina campaign and circulated to supporters rehashed the King-Johnson matter, while it also spliced together statements of Bill Clinton's to make it seem as if he had given a speech that "implied Hillary Clinton is stronger than Nelson Mandela." (The case, with its snippets and ellipses, was absurd on its face.) The memo also claimed, in a charge soon widely repeated, that he had demeaned Obama as "a kid" because he had called Obama's account of his opposition to the war in Iraq a fanciful "fairy tale."And a few reporters, while pushing the Obama campaign's line that black voters had credible concerns about the Clintons' remarks, had begun to notice that the Obama campaign was doing its utmost to fuel the racial flames. "There's no question that there's politics here at work too," said Jonathan Martin of Politico. "It helps campaign to... push these issues into the fore in a place like South Carolina."

When asked about the race-baiting charges, Obama campaign spokeswoman Candice Tolliver roiled the waters: "Folks are beginning to wonder: Is this really an isolated situation or is there something bigger behind all of this?" Representative Jesse Jackson Jr., the Obama co-chair, as before, was more direct and inflammatory, claiming that the "cynics" of the Clinton campaign had "resorted to distasteful and condescending language that appeals to our fears rather than our hopes. I sincerely hope that they'll turn away from such reactionary, disparaging rhetoric." The race-baiting card was now fully in play.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

90. Race-baiting and race card are NOT equivalent.

In fact, they're damn near opposite.

Nice try but no cigar.

[BootinUp]

91. I'll wait for your definitions... nt

[Dr Fate]

93. I'll give it a shot- "race baiting" is something racists actually do.

"Race card" is a phrase they often use when they are engaged in "race baiting."

When one engages in this "race baiting"- he might use code phrases such as "black people always play the race card" to appeal to other racists.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

94. That's pretty much the size of it. nt

[GoldieAZ49]

103. So Wright was "race baiting" not "playing the race card"?

or was "playing the race card" while engaged in "race baiting"?

[BootinUp]

105. heh. nt

[Dr Fate]

113. It is funny that Hillary supporters find Clinton's & Wrights tactics to be similar.

I disagree that they are, but its interesting that the comparison of the two makes you laugh.

[BootinUp]

124. Please feel free to expand

on "it is interesting".

[Dr Fate]

133. It's interesting that the closest comparison to Bill's tactics you could muster is Rev. Wright.

I thought all you guys hated Rev. Wright- but now you seem to be saying that if he attacks white racists, it's okay for Bill appeal to them.

[BootinUp]

137. What are you talking about?

Your OP as I understood it takes issue with the Bill Clinton using the phrase "race card". It is my position that the Obama campaign has been attacking the Clinton campaign on manufactured race issues in very sly ways, pushing the phrase race-baiting as far back as January. The media has characterized those Obama campaign charges saying that the Clintons played a race card. Any references by Bill to "race cards" is a reference to the hub bub that the Obama campaign pushed in a disgusting manner back in January and February.

Hope that sets the record straight, I said nothing about Rev Wright.

[Dr Fate]

139. Obama "manufactured" Clinton's on record use of race baiting tactics?

Obama manufactured Clintons use of Wright & Farakkan to appeal to certain white voters who dont trust black people?

Bringing in Farakkan is just like Bush's use of Willie Horton.

Obama manufactured Clinton's use of old-time code words invented by & for racists?

News to me.

If Obama was predicting Clinton's use of race baiting, subtle or otherwise, it looks like he called it right.

[Dr Fate]

111. While he was praying with the Clintons after Bill's affair?

Either way, Wright is not the candidate or running mate of either.

While the Clinton camp is imitating the Sons of the Confederacy and almost every southern Republican I've ever met, dont forget to bring up "Jesse Jackson", "Farakkan" "Affirmitive Action" , "reverse racism", "WILLIE HORTON" and "welfare queens" too.

What the Clintons say about Black Democrats who "play the race card" and what Rev Wright says about 200 years of discrimination and white racists are two different things.

Assuming for the sake of argument that Wright really was "race baiting"- that makes it okay for Clinton to do it?

[Dr Fate]

92. Race baiting is something that racists really do. And racists also use code words like "race card."

"Playing the race card" is a phrase designed to appeal to folks who dont like black people.

If someone would use a term like "race card"-a term invented by racists to be used to appeal to racists, then isnt that race-baiting?

Since when is accusing someone who uses racist code words of "race baiting" racist in itself?

Using racist code words IS race baiting, isnt it?

I've heard progressives accuse racists of race-baiting before- but I've never heard a progressive attack a black person by claiming that they were "playing the race card." I've only heard the Rush-bo types do that one- until now.

If Obama indicated that Hillary was up for race baiting, then her use of phrases invented BY and FOR racists proves him right.

[kdpeters]

100. "Senator Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark" EXACTLY!!

"Senator Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson. I didn't make the statement," Obama said in a conference call with reporters. "I haven't remarked on it. And she, I think, offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act. She is free to explain that. But the notion that somehow this is our doing is ludicrous."

We heard her remark with our own ears and we know for ourselves why we have problems with it and what it seemed to reveal about the candidate herself. To now claim that the fallout from Hillary's unfortunate remark is Obama's fault -- is due to race-baiting -- is to be as clueless in your privilege as your candidate.

She doesn't get it; neither do you. But don't tell me it's my problem that you don't.

[Dr Fate]

89. Obama used the term "race card" to attack black folks?

Or did Clinton/McCain/media use that term in the same way I've heard racists use it my whole life?

Like I said, Until recently, I've never heard anyone but white racists use that code-phrase in the way I've been hearing it used over the past few days by Hillary/media....

[EFerrari]

95. Dig and learn. n/t

[BenDavid]

96. No one said black folk were playing the race card. Only the

obama campaign is guilty of playing the race card. Hell, I even show you all that obama played the race card back in December of 2006 and showed many times where he plays the race card and it does un-noticed because of the willing whoremedia that covers for his ass. Hell Jesse jackson jr should have had his ass fired from the obama camp when he played the racial card against HRC. Hell, if obama believed any of what he is saying then why did he ever allow racial divisiness his campaign launched against Hillary and Bill? The fact is damn simple. obama can give a damn good speech, but that is all he has done. He doesn't live up to his words. His words are empty bullshit.

[Dr Fate]

114. I'll bite- show me a progressive using the term "race card" to attack a black person before now.

n/t

[JI7]

99. finally someone mentions this

[VotesForWomen]

102. yeah, and i never heard anybody but nasty sexists use the term 'gender card;' go figure. nt

[loyalsister]

104. That has bothered me too...

Especially "reverse racism" with the implication that there is a correct form.

[Why Syzygy]

107. We are at the Race Fork in the Path ...

I scan the news.google headline search results several times a day. Late last night, it seemed as if they all turned negative against Obama and race was the prevailing theme.

I can't post any more for a few hours... don't mean to hijack your thread, but want to get this out there.
Thanks.

Something is going to have to budge. Some people are making the point that RACE is keeping the SUPERDELEGATES from endorsing Obama an putting and end to it. That is not a good headline for us.

If true, we are at an impasse. Are they willing to take the plunge and get behind a BLACK MAN?
Do our Democrats have the guts?

No more little tit tat games about *RACE CARD* (and yes I've heard it for years and it doesn't mean anything racist to me). The race speech was an attempt to move things along.
Are we stalled?

We've got to get Real with it. I'm ready. Who else?

Look at this ~


How can Obama, Clinton not be tired?
The Associated Press - 1 hour ago
NEW ALBANY, Ind. (AP) — How can they not be tired? Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton are undeniably exhausted. They've been campaigning hard for more ...

Early primary paid off for state and Clinton
Los Angeles Times, CA - 3 hours ago
SACRAMENTO — Californians can be thankful the state held its presidential primary on the earliest day legally possible. And Hillary Rodham Clinton should be ...

Trouble Ahead for Obama
Washington Post, United States - 5 hours ago
By Robert D. Novak When Pennsylvania exit polls came out late Tuesday afternoon showing a lead of 3.6 points for Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama, ...

Barack Obama's 'bitter' Pa. lesson
New York Daily News, NY - 1 hour ago
BY MICHAEL SAUL Blue-collar whites shunned Obama on Tuesday in the Keystone State, raising questions about his ability to attract the key voting bloc in a ...

Obama suffers from the working-class blues
Reuters - 4 hours ago
By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent - Analysis WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Bowling and beer could not help Barack Obama. Neither could waffles and ...

For Democrats, Questions Over Race and Electability
New York Times, United States - 6 hours ago
By ADAM NAGOURNEY It is the question that has hung over Senator Barack Obama’s presidential campaign, and it loomed large on Tuesday night after his loss to ...

Washington diary: Trench warfare
BBC News, UK - 4 hours ago
By Matt Frei The candidacy of Hillary Rodham Clinton refuses to die. She has been compared to the Duracell battery bunny that keeps on shuffling when others ...

Clinton grabs $3.5 million after victory
Washington Times, DC - 4 hours ago
By SA Miller and Christina Bellantoni COURTING THE PARTY ELITE: Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton says she leads the popular vote if the disqualified Florida and ...

Obama Gets Encouragement and Warning From Wilder on Race Issue
Bloomberg - 5 hours ago
By Heidi Przybyla April 24 (Bloomberg) -- Doug Wilder, the nation's first elected black governor, has both encouragement and a warning for Illinois Senator ...

From the last entry (excellent story) >

Obama Gets Encouragement and Warning From Wilder on Race Issue
By Heidi Przybyla
April 24 (Bloomberg) -- Doug Wilder, the nation's first elected black governor, has both encouragement and a warning for Illinois Senator Barack Obama. ...snipped

Wilder predicted a tight race for Obama against the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Arizona Senator John McCain. He said he had advised the candidate on how to handle the race issue.

`High Ground'

``I've told him to keep the high ground,'' he said. ``Let the rest of us do what needed to be done'' in responding to attacks.

``I told him it's going to be very difficult, particularly running against a woman,'' he said. ``And racially it's going to be even more difficult.''

When Wilder ran for president for three months in 1992, internal polling in New Hampshire, the nation's first primary state, showed him at the top of the preference list based on his positions, his biography and his speeches, he said.

``As soon as my picture was put up associated with that, it would go down,'' he said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSjvMcTY4.Ak&refer=home

[acmavm]

108. The only people I see playing the 'race card' and using the term are

Obama supporters who think he's 'entitled' to the presidency and they call everyone who things otherwise a 'racist'.

[GoldieAZ49]

109. You got that right!

and it has gotten so out of hand I don't care what they consider racist anymore!

screw it!

[Dr Fate]

120. We are quoting Bill Clinton. Do you deny that he said it, then lied about saying it?

???

[Dr Fate]

115. I'm quoting Bill. So you missed where Bill Clinton said the phrase, then lied about ever saying it?

It must be a loaded phrase, or Bill never would have lied about ever saying it.

Also, look at all the Hillary supporters on this thread who are defending his use of the term. Do a DU search of the term and count the Hillary supporters who are using it just like the Republicans have used the phrase for years.

Sorry, pointing out Hill's use of racists terms is not racist in itself.

[acmavm]

132. Please, don't act so disingenuous. You've seen all the threads

where Obama supporters fling around that epithet at anyone they even THINK disagrees with their savior.

[Dr Fate]

136. Obama supporters use the term "race card" to attack a black person?

Obama supporters aim that code word at white voters to make them oppose a black person? News to me.

No- that is old white racists, the media, and now Clinton who uses that term in that context.

Feel free to show me the Obama supporters who use that Republican-invented code words to attack a black person- you know, like Clinton did.

[OzarkDem]

127. Its a concern w/ Obama the candidate

Pretty much any criticism of him is labeled racism by his campaign and supporters.

What happens if we elect him POTUS and the public wants to criticize his decisions and polices? Are voters, Dem leaders, the news media and others going to hold back from questioning him or criticizing his decisions for fear of being called racist?

In tough times like these, every POTUS needs to be open to criticism, especially one as inexperienced as Obama.

I don't look forward to electing someone who I won't be able to criticize if they win.

[Dr Fate]

140. Legit criticism is fine-It's the calculated "Wille Horton" style race baiting at issue.

You can crticise Obama all you want- just know that if Clinton uses code words and Willie Horton style association games to bait white voters in the NC or beyond, the non-racists & minorities are going to notice and call it out.

Once we call out these racist tactics, thats where you guys come in with the old-time Republican talking point: "they are playing the race card again."

[rodeodance]

155. that is true for many of them.

[Perry Logan]

110. And I never heard anyone say "race card" until the Obama people did. It's just about all they say.

[Dr Fate]

119. We are quoting Bill Clinton. Did you miss where he said it, then lied about saying it?

He must have realized that it was a racist phrase, which is why he back-tracked and lied about ever saying it.

Obama used the term "race card" in the same context as Bill Clinton and old-time racists do-to attack a member of a minority?? Thats news to me.

[spoony]

112. So, is it your claim that no one has ever used

the inflammatory labels of 'racist' or 'racism' falsely? And if that is not your claim, then what does one call it when that happens? And if it is your claim, well that's a whole different level of delusion.

[Dr Fate]

118. I'll bite- show me a progressive using the term "race card" to attack a black person before now.

Show me a non-racist or a non-race-baiting person using the phrase "race card" to attack a black person before now.

If you use terms invented by white racists that are calculated to appeal to white racists, that might be race-baiting.

[spoony]

122. I'm asking what you'd rather call it

if you think people have ever, do ever, falsely claim racism. Like another poster, the first time I heard the term was during the OJ trial. I was relatively new in the country and don't know if/how it was used before then. I'm not asking you to bite anything, nor am I saying that racists have never used the term. I do question the notion that every person who uses it is a racist.

All I ask are two easy questions: Do people ever falsely claim racism, and if so what should we call it to avoid your disdain?

[Dr Fate]

125. If you use language invented by racists and use it to appeal to racists-what are you?

Any "code word" or pharse calculated to and used to get racist white people (latent or otherwise) to oppose a black person is either racist in itself or using racism & race-division in a cynical manner.

Is it false to claim there is racism where terms invented by racists & blatently used for racist appeal are being used?

Seriously- have you ever heard progressives attacking a black person by accusing them of "playing the race card" before.

Could you imagine Jimmy Carter attacking a black person by accusing him of "playing the race card."

Instead of accusing Obama of "playing the race card"- wouldnt it have been better if they had just laid off the Republican talking points designed to make white racists not like Obama in the 1st place?

[spoony]

128. I take it you have no intention of answering me

So I will depart and wish you well.

[Dr Fate]

134. You want me to answer a hypothetical. You falsely claim there was no racist tactics being used..

...and that one must say that it is "playing the race card" when one claims racism where there is none.

But you cant say "there was no racism involved" when terms invented BY racists were specifically used to appeal to racists.

If there was no use of racial wedges by Clinton, the WTF were they doing talking abourt Wright, Farrakkan & "race cards" to begin with? Those things were siad to make whites oppose Obama as black man- and that is a fact.


I answered you- Clinton shouldnt cry "he's playing the race card" when he KNOWS racism is a present factor-that's the GOP's way, not what progressives do.

[Dr Fate]

143. What would *I* call it? LOL- it's not my job to come up with non-racist tactics for you.

It's not my job for to come up with ways to frame the Clinton's use of "Willie Horton" style association games or their use of racist code words.

If Bill wants to race-bait, then it's your job, not mine to come up with the spin.

"Obama is playing the race card" seems to be the best line he could come up with to defend Clinton's Willie Horton style race-baiting- and then he lied about even saying that.

[spoony]

151. Not talking about specifics, not about Obama and Clinton

Your condemnation of the phrase "race card" seems pretty universal. So I asked a simple question, and your reply, as best I can piece it together with all the static about the candidates, is that even when there is no racism and it is claimed, saying that in that instance the "race card" was played validates that there was racism...even though it was introduced after the claim.

In other words: you've painted yourself into a dusty little corner because you didn't think your argument through. I suspect even you know it doesn't make much sense.

[Dr Fate]

154. I'm talking about using the phrase in the same context as the white-racists who use it.

And now, the Clintons and certain DUers use it the same way- to brush off any black person who calls out race-baiting.

I'm not condeming the use of the phrase standing alone- I'm condenming the use of code words and buzz words that are calcualted to upset white racists.

I'm also talking about the Willie Horton style, race baiting association games played by Hillary (Farakkan, etc). This tactic was indeed introduced after it was predicted that Hillary would race-bait.

I'm not the one in a corner- that would be Bill Clinton and his defneders, who was so cornered that he felt the need to lie about aiming that phrase to rile up white folks.

Care to explain why he felt the need to lie about what he said?

But first,tell us how Clinton bringing up Farrakkan is not the exact same thing Bush Sr. did by bringing in Willie Horton. Hell- you might even call both examples "race-baiting."

[Mme. Defarge]

116. Recomended!

[AtomicKitten]

121. K&R

Nice to see you around these parts, Good Doctor.

:hi:

[demokatgurrl]

123. I've heard it from the NAACP. n/t

[Dr Fate]

126. You heard the NAACP attack a minority or anyone else using that phrase?

You heard the NAACP using the phrase in the same context that white racists use it?


Link?

[OzarkDem]

129. What terminology do you suggest?

The accusation of racism is used for nearly any criticism of Obama or his policies. Please enlighten us on how others who have a legitimate disagreement with him can make their case.

Unless you're saying Obama is immune from criticism?

[Dr Fate]

135. LOL- So I have to come up with non-racist tactics for you to use? LOL!

First off, Clinton cant claim that Obama is merely "playing the race card" when they are intentionally bringing in Wright, Farakkan & code words like "race card" to intentinally stir up racial differences and appeal to racist voters.

You can have a legit disagreement with Obama- but dont just claim he is "playing the race card" when we note that it is Clinton who is bringing in things calcualted to make white voters dislike Obama based on race.

Clinton's use of "Willie Horton" style association games with Obama was no accident- it was calculated and it is race-baiting by definition. It's not my job to come up with non-racists terminology for you to use in defending that.

[spoony]

152. OP gave me the same non-answer. In the same words, lol.

[Dr Fate]

158. Exactly- its not my job to help you come up with non-racist ways for you to explain yourselves.

Clinton was intent on race baiting- she even tried to associate Obama with Farrakkan. You know, the old "Willie Horton" style associational tactic.

Even after that, Bill is saying that it is Obama, not him who is "playing the race card."

You want me to tell you what he should have said instead- that's your job, not mine.

My vote is that he shouldnt have race-baited OR used that phrase to defend his race-baiting in the 1st place.

[spoony]

160. My job? What on earth are you on about?

I asked a perfectly simple question that you still have absolutely no answer to, except to ramble on about Clinton as if that's what I'm talking about.

[Dr Fate]

161. You asked me to provide you with the terminology that Clinton should have used.

And I answered- he should have never race-baited in the first place- then there would be no need for additional racist code or terminology to cover for it.

If the Clintons had not engaged in their "Willie Horton" style race baiting, then I doubt Clinton would have found the need to use racist code and then lie about it right afterwards.

What should Clinton have said instead of "race card?"- the answer is he should have acted like a PROGRESSIVE instead of a Southern Republican and stayed away from race-baiting and his subsequent spin & lie all together.

[spoony]

162. No, actually, I did not ask you that.

What I asked you was what, besides "playing the race card," should a person call it when another person falsely claims racism. That's what "playing the race card" means to me. What would you call it?

[Dr Fate]

163. Noting Clinton's use of "Willie Horton" style tactics does not amount to a false claim of racism.

Clinton's use of those tactics is race baiting.

That is the flaw in your argument- it is incorrect to say that trying to unfairly associate Obama with Farrakkan wasnt calculated to appeal to angry white males & racists. It's the identical tactic Bush Sr. used w/ Willie Horton.

If the Clintons had not attempted to turn angry white males against a black man by using racist code and association games, your question would make sense.

You want me to discuss a hypothetical situation where there was no race-baiting on the part of Hillary- but fact is, there was.

As much as Hillary people like to claim her page from the Willie Horton playbook was manufactured by an Obama memo- it happened-she engaged in race-baiting. Its a factual claim, not a false one.

[spoony]

165. Holy shit, are we having the same conversation?

"Clinton's use"
"associate Obama"
"Hillary people"

How many bleeding times do I have to make clear that I am not talking about the candidates! We are clearly not on the same page, or the same book. Maybe not the same library. Have a good night, Dr. Fate.

[Dr Fate]

166. I was talking about Hillary's race-baiting to attack Obama. I *AM* talking about candidates here.

You dont want to talk about candidates? Errr-okay. But what else would we be talking about but "candidates" in GDP? LOL!!!

If you want a vague, general discussion on racist tactics and the terminolgy used therein, then feel free to start your own thread. Try GD.

My posts are in relation to my own OP, not your hypothetical situations.

Good night to you too- I'll take your bowing out as an indication that you have ran out of ways to deflect or pretend that Clinton was not trying to appeal to racists.

[Jed Dilligan]

131. But what changed?

[Stinky The Clown]

138. The first I ever heard it was in the OJ trial .......

.... and I **think** it was Johnny Cochran who said the words 'race card' first.

Before that, while I may have heard it, I have no recollection of having heard it.

[Dr Fate]

145. I could only find people discussing whether it was being used or not...

...I couldnt find an example of Cochran using it in the context that my OP establishes...

[Dr Fate]

141. kick

n/t

[Dr Fate]

144. One more kick- last chance to defend Clinton's race-baiting. n/t

n/t

[dchill]

146. I've go one name for you. Johnnie Cochran (RIP).

First time I ever heard the term, it came out of his mouth. He and Robert Shapiro used it to refer to the prosecution in the OJ Simpson case. I agree with you that the Clintons are using the term in a flatly disingenuous way.

[Dr Fate]

149. Right- Clinton obvioulsy knew it was suspect, or he wouldnt have lied about ever saying it.

n/t

[jjchvz]

147. Race card, smace card.

Race card, smace card.

[Dr Fate]

148. Bill, is that you? Denying what you said again, I see.

;) ;) ;)

[dchill]

150. Well argued - I think I've changed my mind!

:crazy::eyes:

[TexasObserver]

153. Agreed. If they say "race card," they're voting Republican in the general election.

It's always code for "God damn, N*****s!!"

Racist vote Republican in the general election. It's a core GOP value.

[Dr Fate]

156. The Clintons & the DUers who use code words that might vote for McCain?

Could be!

Wouldnt suprise me.

[TexasObserver]

157. The Clintons have definitely taken their campaign there, repeatedly.

They've cast aspersions at blacks implicitly with their code attacks about Obama. I won't even repeat them here, but they've used a variety that all plug into the racist attitudes of some of their constituency.

[Dr Fate]

159. Which is why I posted this thread. I want people to be able to spot it in NC and beyond. n/t

n/t

[KoKo]

164. Former VA Governor Doug Wilder got MSNBC Airtime...saying Black Guy agains White Woman making her

CRY...was NOT GOOD. And Wilder went on in his interview to say that Hillary throws "Hissy Fits" and it's all about Women and how voters see women. He was explaining how hard it was for a "black man" to go against a "white woman" because they get "so emotional.

It was dreadful...Get "the hook" for Wilder. He sounds like some "old school racist" and I've never heard anything like that from Obama's mouth....