It will be Clark, and I couldn't be more pleased

[troublemaker]

Despite the Kerry campaign's heroic efforts to maintain the surprise factor Clark is lookin' more and more to be the man. I just hope the smart money stays on Edwards and Gephardt for another week or two.

Riddle me this: If Clark is not the pick how the HELL could the Kerry campaign treat Clark like this? If he was out they would have the decency to make a show of considering him. They certainly wouldn't have "sources close to Kerry" constantly batting down Clark speculation by implying Clark is a loose cannon or incompetent campaigner.

Kerry "sources" have fed newspapers exhaustive lists of speculative names with Clark was conspicuously absent. Either he's being routinely insulted and is too dumb to get it, or his name is left off the lists for a reason.

Clark has somehow become the Democratic party's chief on-call spokesperson on military and foreign affairs but Kerry won't even pretend that Clark's worth considering for VP? No frickin' way... that's just not how politics is played. (On Edit: Meaning that public lip-service consideration for VP is a traditional political courtesy. Since Clark has so enthusiastically endorsed Kerry and since Kerry knows that Clark has some dedicated supporters he would normaly rate faux consideration even if Kerry hated him. There's no down-side to including his name in meaningless lists of who "we're looking at.")

Clark has been auditioning for the job and doing well. Raising money. Appearing on TV around the clock. And since dropping out Clark's appearances have become more cautious, measured and serious than when he was running. That's not a guy who's out of politics. (In the new CNN/Gallup poll of voter preference it's Edwards at 23% (or 26%?) with Gephardt and Clark tied for second at 15%, so Clark's TV blitz is paying off.)

BTW, I appreciate that we all value straight-talk, but Clark's comments on the VP slot are less than meaningless. His statements are not lies, they are protocol. Vociferous objections to the very idea of being offered VP are basic etiquette for people who want the job.

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Don't Jinx It!!!

:eyes:

[troublemaker]

10. Fortunately we lack that power.

Posts on message boards are presumed to be crazy so pro-Clark posts should actually diminish his perceived prospects, CW-wise.

[Jack_Dawson]

12. What makes you think it's Clark?

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. Hi Jack!

:hi: Nice to see you again. Aren't you excited about Wes being VP?! :7

[Jack_Dawson]

54. What's UP, In-cog?

Of course if Clark WAS VP I'd be excited...but what makes you so sure itz gonna happen?

:beer:

[eaprez]

2. Not How Politics is Played?

Name me an instance when one of the primary canidates was selected a VP running mate?

[k in IA]

4. Reagan - Bush, Kennedy-Johnson - there's two.

[cjbuchanan]

9. The thing with those two examples

Is that both those years, their respective parties were split.

It might happen this year, but the fact that the party is very much together seems to reduce those chances.

[k in IA]

28. I think Kerry should do whatever he feels would be best.

Edwards or Clark would be just fine with me but there are a lot of other people that would be great. Who really votes based on VP? I certainly will not.

[troublemaker]

5. Historically it's not unusual

GHW Bush and Lyndon Johnson come to mind.

Since those were both winning tickets, I wonder what the historical trend is (?)

[eaprez]

7. Thanks!

Thanks! Thats what I wanted to know. Frankly, I don't understand all this fretting over the issue. Its his choice - he will pick who he picks and I will support him - no use fretting about it. He doesn't call me (perhaps he calls all of you) for input on these matters.

[troublemaker]

44. Also what about Edwards and Gerhardt?

The same argument would knock them out, too.

[cally]

3. I don't think the Kerry campaign is dissing Clark

He may be given a high position in the next admin even if it's not VP. Clark is not a career politician and may not care so much. I would NEVER say Clark is too dumb to understand anything.

I still hope it is Clark but it could be Edwards. :shrug:

[Scoopie]

36. Did anyone ever answer my question?

Maybe I need to do a search because the threads are always long gone by the time I come here at night, but I have asked WHERE in the administration, besides VP would Kerry put Clark?

SoS - Holbrooke seems to have the bead on this one.
NSA - sub-cabinet level and not worthy of Clark's talents.
Def. Sec. - 10 year military rule; therefore, Clark can't serve.

Where else would Kerry put him besides VP?

64. How about Chief Of Staff?

Potentially more powerful than even the VP, Cheney and Rumsfield both formerly held the COS position, as did another general - Alexander Haig.

Chief of Staff seems like a military position, in a way. If nothing else, I think Clark woulddo an excellent job in that capacity.

[neuvocat]

6. Clark also said

that if he were offered it, he would do so because it was his duty. A little cheesy but it sounds good to me.

[eek]

11. I've been to 2 live Clark events and i think his cheese is real

Believe you me -- I keep my corn-detector turned up high and I'm tellin' ya - when general Clark turned and pointed to the US flag and said 'I love that flag" it was Cheese, not processed cheesefood.
He was sincere.
That New American Patriot thing of his is real.

[Donna Zen]

34. Difficult for me to understand: yes; Cheesy; no.

I finally got a handle on this when I read something a member of one Clark's philosophy classes wrote. He said when they were discussing Plato Clark emphasized the "silver" star. It is not the star of the king/ruler, but the star of the server and defender of democracy/country. Clark truly believes that we are all given gifts and we should all use those gifts to make the world better rather than serve only ourselves.

To me...I don't know. I try to be altruistic but damn it's hard. Wes Clark is an amazing person.

[cjbuchanan]

8. Nothing against Clark, but

It would be strange if Kerry wanted him to be VP for his team to be, "constantly batting down Clark speculation by implying Clark is a loose cannon or incompetent campaigner."

Do you really want to even imply the possibility of this subplot developing if this is the #2 on your ticket? "Loose cannon" is not a phrase you want associated with anyone dealing directly with your ticket.

That said, I'll be happy, and amazingly shocked, if it is Clark.

[H2O Man]

14. I'm curious:

when anyone from the Kerry campaign called Clark a "loose cannon"? Not saying it hasn't happened, but I have not seen or heard anything approaching that.

[troublemaker]

17. Not for attribution, of course.

But the Howard Fineman's of the world--the real CW hacks who start every sentence with things like "what I'm hearing from the Kerry campaign is..."--always imply that Clark is considered too risky... too many mis-steps during his campaign, etc.

But of course yesterdays "risky" is tomorrow's "bold." (And Clark never stopped campaigning; seems like he's appeared in public and on TV just as much since dropping out... I think he's learning on the job.

[troublemaker]

16. The "surprise" thing is childish but it's treated like Gold

I wouldn't down a guy to keep the press off of him, but recent campaigns have made such a fetish of deceiving the press on the VP pick that nothing would surprise me.

I wish I had saved the link for a Sunday NYT VP round-up article from about a month ago. They practically mentioned county commissioners! But no Clark.

We'll see. Either way I can't wait.

[Qutzupalotl]

13. I think you're right.

Clark is it, and he knows. Did you see him on Hardball last Friday? When asked about VP speculation, he gave the standard non-answer, started smiling, and finally started laughing. He knows!

[HooptieWagon]

15. I'd be happy with Clark as VP

But I think he'd be a GREAT SecState.
For campaigning purposes my favorite VP would be Ann Richards. She is quite the fiery campaigner, and might just be able to snatch Texas from BushCo. Graham would make a great VP, but I'm afraid his laid back campaigning style won't play well nationally.
Any thoughts on McCain as SecDef? He might just accept that offer, he could still save face with the republicans by saying he's doing it to "save" the military from the libruls....
How about Edwards as AG if he isn't offered the VP? Or...Eliot Spitzer? Either would be super by me.

[glitch]

19. Ann Richards would be AWESOME vp nt

[Scoopie]

37. Another one of my questions...

was it ever answered?

Can Edwards be AG?
Yes, he's an attorney and, yes, he was a clerk many moons ago, but considering that he spent most of his life as a personal injury lawyer, does he have both the experience with the U.S. Constitution and the clearance by the Supreme Court to practice in front of them? Has he ever had a case go before the Supremes (if he had, that would answer the second question - attorneys must be cleared to argue before the Supreme Court and it's a grueling process).
Even though I'm in no way an Edwards supporter, I'm not trying to be mean with this question. I'm seriously wanting to know the answer.

[Tom Rinaldo]

38. Yes

I think Edwards is highly intelligent. He is a real achiever. He clearly understands the role of law in society, and he can articulate a vision, which is an important part of leadership. There are scores of highly skilled specialists in the law who actually handle the case work in the Justice Department. Edwards understands the way the legal system works and he is fluent in its language. Those are the prerequisites in my opinion. Attorney General is two parts politics and one part law. I think Edwards will come down on the correct side of most important issues, more so than most. Elliot Spitzer is someone else I like, but he may want to be Gov of New York.

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. It usually isn't the AG who goes before the Supremes n/t

[Virginian]

18. I think it might be Edwards because

Kerry said, "There are two Iraqs."
That seems to be borrowing from the Edwards theme of Two Americas.

[cosmokramer]

32. What?????

That makes no sense whatsover.

:dunce:

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. I hope you're right!

However, I have to say that I have never heard the words "dumb" and Wes Clark used in the same sentence. ;)

[Sparkly]

21. Can you imagine the media response?

After all the "Do you think it's Edwards sure could be Edwards everybody likes Edwards a likely candidate is Edwards who is young and charismatic Edwards came in second in the primaries Edwards is charming it's very possible Edwards he's from the South Edwards could be the VP pick could it be Edwards gotta love Edwards Edwards Edwards... Hey, our polls show people feel positive toward Edwards, what a surprise!!"

[Skwmom]

24. The corporate media

sound more like used car salesmen every day.

[TexasSissy]

22. Isn't it CNN that Clark has mainly been on? He works for CNN.

He used to be a correspondent/consultant for CNN.

If this is incorrect, please advise. Has he been on MSNBC, CBS, ABC? I've only seen him on CNN.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. He was on MSNBC Hardball

last Friday. I haven't seen him on Network TV for a while. He is on CNN a lot...lately, but he doesn't work for them anymore.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. He was also on the Today show today.

Here is the thread about it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=559481&mesg_id=559481

I know he was also on Fox (ugh) sometime in the last week.

[julialnyc]

26. He has been on every channel

CNN, msnbc, fox (plus he's been on network TV (like The Today Show today)). He is everywhere (I think he's done at least a show a day for a week and even two shows some days). Clark has been an enormous asset to Kerry. Clark is perfect for VP. The VP is supposed to be the attack dog and defender for the nominee. Now that we just handed power over to the Iraqis, Kerry has booked Clark on TV shows non-stop to counter the republicans.
He was amazing on Larry King last night......so was Shoshana Johnson (the ex-POW)

[Adelante]

30. Not all of his media appearances

But I had these calendared:

6/29/04 - NBC Today show
6/29/04 - CNN Inside Politics
6/28/04 - CNN Larry King
6/27/04 - CNN Live
6/25/04 - MSNBC Morning News
6/25/04 - FOX The Big Story
6/25/04 - MSNBC Hardball
6/24/04 - AirAmerica Radio - Ed Schultz
6/18/04 - FOX Heartland
6/15/04 - CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
6/10/04 - National Public Radio - Here and Now
6/10/04 - MSNBC Hardball
(Eastern Europe & North Africa)
5/27/04 - CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
5/27/04 - MSNBC Hardball
5/25/04 - CNN Paula Zahn Now
5/16/04 - C-Span Road to the White House
5/9/04 - NBC Meet the Press
5/2/04 - CNN Inside Politics Sunday

[Jai4WKC08]

42. He was on CNBC somewhere in there

I remember because he was talking (mostly) economic issues for Kerry.

[cosmokramer]

47. Eight in five days...INCREDIBLE...

I admire him more each day...

[cosmokramer]

31. Christ, he has been EVERYWHERE...

...all networks. NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, even FOX!

[Scoopie]

48. Clark doesn't work for CNN now

And hasn't for about a year.

They're lucky - after their horrible treatment of him - that he graces any of their shows besides Aaron Brown's - at all.

[Darkamber]

29. Isn't Clark a member of Kerry's Military advisory group?

I think Clark is already guaranteed a position in Kerry's administration. It might not be VP, but I'm sure you will see him in Kerry's administration.

[janx]

35. I've always believed that Clark would have a place in any

future Dem administration.

When his chances started looking bleak, and when it still looked as if Dean had a chance, I actually remember remarking about that to a friend.

The guy has too many qualifications to be ignored.

[Scoopie]

39. For the millioneth time... WHERE?!

SoS will be Holbrooke.
NSA is sub-cabinet and isn't worthy of Clark's talents.
Def. Sec. - Has to have been out of the military for 10 years.

So, if not VP, where?

[Darkamber]

53. I say Sec. of State or NSA

There's no guarantee that Holbrooke will be SoS. And in this period of time with terror a primary concern I see NSA as a very important position and one where I would want someone with Clark's talents there.
I would feel secure if I knew it was Clark running the shots from the position of National Security Adviser.

Only Kerry knows for certain, but Clark will not be left out...that is one think that I would be willing to bet on.

[Scoopie]

57. Hmmmm...

See... I just don't see it that way.
While, I agree Clark would be a most excellent SoS - I still think it's Holbrooke's for the taking.
And, I have a lot of trouble with someone of Clark's talents in the NSA position, unless it gets bumped to cabinet-level. For all it's hoopla, it's really just an advisory position.

[Mz Pip]

33. Playing devil's advocate here.

Was Cheney all over the media before Bush picked him?
Was Lieberman all over the media beofre Gore picked him?

Clark was my man in the Primaries and I would like nothing better than to see him face off against Cheney in the VP debate. But us Clarkies have learned not to get our hopes up too much.

MzPip
:dem:

[Auntie Bush]

41. "But us Clarkies have learned not to get our hopes up too much."

Yeah, but I'm a slow learner! :silly:

[troublemaker]

43. That's a good point, but...

Cheney and Lieberman were known quantities. My theory is that Clark is actually being auditioned. Given his comparative lack of political experience it would be irresponsible not to put him through some paces in the vetting process.(and Kerry is an ultra-cautious politician) If Clark had been ineffective the last few months, gotten off message, said controversial things, etc. then he would have been out of consideration with little harm done.

[troublemaker]

45. More Musings

Every time I go through the mental VP game I reach the same conclusion. It should be 1) an outsider (not someone in congress) 2) with impeccable national security credentials.

Number one knocks out everyone in congress. Number two knocks out everyone else. As Bill Clinton said, Clark is a gift to the Democratic party.

Also, I think Kerry is a serious man who may have given thought to the real significance of the VP post-9/11. It's not just that the VP needs to be able to serve as President, but that the VP needs to be able to serve as President when suddenly thrust into the role in the middle of a violent crisis.

[cosmokramer]

46. I agree completely!

The VP slot isn't 'on the job training' for someone without significant foreign policy experience.

[Scoopie]

49. Agreed

And with so much agreement - I could have written this.

:)

[janx]

50. But why wouldn't Kerry himself be there?

I don't get it. ?

and I like Clark, but I keep seeing this line of reasoning, but I don't see how it follows.

[cosmokramer]

51. The VP is a security position. In these volatile times...

...wouldn't you want someone experienced and capable should a crisis arise?

[janx]

56. Tell me about the volatile times--

I'm not sure you are sure of what that means.

[cosmokramer]

62. I know exactly what it means.

Don't talk down to me. I have been in the game of politics for quite some time and I don't appreciate your snarky attitude.

[troublemaker]

52. Kerry would be dead. That's the point.

The VP's only real job (aside from breaking ties in the Senate) is as an insurance policy to take over in case the President dies.

If the Prez dies of a heart attack there's time to break in the VP as next President, but if the President dies in a massive terror attack or something like that the VP is thrust suddenly into the job in the middle of an unfolding crisis.

[cosmokramer]

55. The VP could be anything the pres. wants it to be...but the function is

'security'--2nd string quarterback. Still, the VP also helps call the plays (2nd string QB). Clark would be perfect, but there are many, many other contenders who would NOT be good for the slot. The dems need to stop thinking of the VP spot as a 'training ground', and think of it as it is: 2nd string QB

[digno dave]

58. I am afraid a lot of the media has it out for Clark

Edwards seems to get a free pass. This is something to consider when choosing a VP.

[WI_DEM]

59. this is what turns me off of Clark

the gawd-almighty certainty of some of his supporters that he is the choice--and not only is he the choice but he deserves it more than anybody else. Time will tell.

[Auntie Bush]

61. Funny...that is exactly what I didn't like about Edwardians.

Me thinks the pot is calling the kettle black.
If the shoe fits...wear it.

[cosmokramer]

63. People should remember that when they point the finger at others...

...they should be careful of the four digits still directed at them.

[Gloria]

60. I'm surprised that I haven't seen any discussion of what Clinton said

about the VP on Larry King last week.

He said that John Kerry will know by how he feels. That he's doing the right thing for the country, picking the best person in case he is dies, is shot, or is in a plane crash. Yes, Clinton enumerated all those possiblities.

He said that you'll be able to tell how Kerry feels....he'll feel proud and you'll see it in the way he looks and acts. Clinton went on to say that if the VP choice makes Kerry feel this way, that TRUMPS everything else, including "winning a state" and all the usual markers.

[Dr Fate]

65. Mrs. Kerry can start choosing the wall paper & curtains for the WH...

...if this is true.

I hope the hell it is!!!

[TLDHOME99]

66. Is Kerry smart enough to choose Wes Clark?

Clark is beyond a doubt the most qualified, and IMO the best candidate for VP.

His qualifications are obvious, his charisma is obvious, but will Kerry choose him, or some milk toast VP who won't outshine him?

We are all smart enough to choose Clark. I just hope Kerry is.

When, oh when, will Kerry put us out of our misery and tell us who his VP will be?