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The Weather Underground did not murder anybody.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:19 PM
Original message
The Weather Underground did not murder anybody.
They did not "blow up the Pentagon." (Did you notice that it was still there on 9/11, the day that somebody flew an airplane into it?) The Weather Underground did not blow up the New York Subway. It too is still there.

The Weather Underground did not kill any police officers or U.S. government employees. They didn't kill anybody but themselves. Three of them died when a bomb they were building blew up by accident. That was the end of the group. That happened in (cough cough) 1970.

I'm not in favor of violence, including violent overthrow of any government. I'm not in favor of the approaches taken by the Weather Underground. I'm not defending them. However, I do think it's pretty stupid to go around posting dumb lies about a group that existed 40 years ago. If you're going to gripe about old groups, at least get your facts straight.

Thank you.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. I feel better about them already. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Maybe Obama could bring him to a couple of campaign appearances and get this out there.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Obama doesn't know him well enough to bring him to campaign appearances.
They served on a charity board together about a decade ago, and apparently Ayers' and his wife held a fundraiser for Obama (like about a million other people in the U.S.). That's the extent of their relationship.

I was ten in 1970. Obama was eight or nine.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. "That's the extent of their relationship" - untrue.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm all ears. Please link to facts that show otherwise.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:16 PM
Original message
I thought you would own up to your error
..making a visit to the Ayers home while running for a state Senate seat, and then agreeing to being on panels with him and serve on a foundation board together...
Besides serving on the Woods Fund board, in 1997 he and Ayers were to be on a University of Chicago panel organized by Michelle Obama, then an associate dean. And Ayers could reinforce Obama as an elitist: In 2002, Obama and Ayers were scheduled to be on a UIC panel with this lampoon-able title: "Intellectuals in Times of Crisis http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/901879,CST-NWS-sweet...

The two taught appeared speaking together at several public events, including a 1997 University of Chicago panel entitled, "Should a child ever be called a 'super predator?'" and another panel for the University of Illinois in April 2002, entitled, "Intellectuals: Who Needs Them?"
Who+Needs+Them%3F%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us&client=firefox-a" target="_blank">http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:TJ3IVCGCPTkJ:www.hu...



They served together on this panel- http://www.uic.edu/classes/las/las400/conferencealt.htm


This conference is part of the Center's mission of helping to create a more engaged civil society, working towards social change, fostering coalitions between theorists and activists, and combating anti-intellectualism in contemporary culture. It will be both a celebration of ideas and a rigorous examination of the roles and responsibilities that intellectuals play in society.

We will engage the public in the following ways:

* Lively panel discussions that encourage public discussions and debates

* Breakout sessions that include activist tours of the Chicago area and innovative collaborative projects in diverse Chicago neighborhoods

* A working breakfast session that will be a chance to learn about exciting scholar-activist projects in Chicago and network with one another for future collaborations

* A "mini-conference" on the ways that intellectuals intervene in the critically important topic of genetic ethics.

The participants will draw from many different kinds of intellectual work, including journalism, activism, academics, public policy, business, and the arts.


Conference Schedule

April 19th

2:00-3:30 p.m., Chicago Illini Union, 828 S. Wolcott
Conference Registration

3:30-5:00 p.m.
I. Why Do Ideas Matter? (a keynote panel)
We introduce the meta theme of the conference by hearing success stories from diverse voices discussing their experiences intervening intellectually.

Timuel Black, Chicago activist; Prof. Emeritus, City Colleges of Chicago
Lonnie Bunch, President, Chicago Historical Society
Bernardine Dohrn, Northwestern University Law School, Children and Family Justice Center
Gerald Graff, UIC, College of Liberal Arts & Sciences
Richard Rorty, Stanford University, Philosophy

6:00 p.m. Patricia Williams (Columbia University Law School) Harold Washington Library Center

7:30 p.m. Dinner for Patricia Williams and Conference Presenters

Saturday, April 20th 9:00-11:00 a.m.
I. Working Breakfast
This session brings together people taking on important social problems in theory and in practice. They will gather according to interest, such as "housing," "poverty," "human rights," and "education," to teach each other to create new collaborative networks. All are invited to participate.

Guest participants will include:
Arvis Averette (housing issues)
Jim Duignan (DePaul, Stockyard Institute)
Stevan Weine (UIC Psychiatry, refugees and survivors of terrorism)
and others

11:15-2:00 p.m.
III. Lunch and Public Encounters
Alternative breakout tours led by Chicago activists. Tours of Bronzeville and other communities, and visits to organizations that are working on partnering theorists with activists.

2:15-3:45 p.m.
IV. Intellectuals in Times of Crisis
Experiences and applications of intellectual work in urgent situations.

William Ayers, UIC, College of Education; author of Fugitive Days
Douglass Cassel, Northwestern University, Center for International Human Rights
Cathy Cohen, University of Chicago, Political Science
Salim Muwakkil, Chicago Tribune; In These Times
Barack Obama, Illinois State Senator
Barbara Ransby, UIC, African-American Studies (moderator)


4:00-6:00 p.m.
V. Mini-Conference on Genetics and Ethics: a special topic panel that acts like a test case of public intellectual work.

Lori Andrews, Chicago-Kent College of Law
Rex Chisholm, Northwestern University, Center for Genetic Medicine
Eduardo Kac, School of the Art Institute of Chicago
Martha Nussbaum, University of Chicago, Law and Philosophy
Dorothy Roberts, Northwestern University, Law
Arnold Eiser, University of Illinois at Chicago, General Internal Medicine (moderator)

6:00-6:45 p.m. End of conference reception.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
65. This backs up exactly what I said. They served on a committee together ten years ago.
And Ayers and his wife have supported Obama's campaign. That's what I said. How is that a crime?
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #65
84. You left out the panel discussions they participated in together.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Are you just being deliberately obtuse?
"You left out the panel discussions they participated in together"

Um, isn't that what people do when they serve on a committee?

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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #90
102. You didn't mention commitees, and panel discussions are individual events.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. well i guess the foots on the other hand now
:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #105
110. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. When all your arguments are refuted, stoop to ridiculing the mentally ill.
How pathetic.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. You did not do that, did you? Touchy aren't we?
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
117. It doesn't sound militant enough to frighten me n/t
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Will you be leaving right after she steps down or will you
hang out until after the General??
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Maybe we could start a pool.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. A pool is a fine idea - we could take a percentage and donate it
to the most deserving Hillary shill we can locate on this board. Maybe a prize for longevity or something...

:rofl:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Well, they are going to need jobs after she drops out....
:evilgrin:
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Heh heh.
:headbang:
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. My girlfriend's super is ex- Black Panther.
One of the sweetest people I know.

But Girlfriend has known him for 35 years. Says he used to be one scary character.

He spends all of his free time counseling gangstahs.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The Black Panthers were actually a very interesting group, unfairly maligned by the media.
Personally, I think that the Weathermen (later renamed Weather Underground) were a bunch of overprivileged jerks, but the Black Panthers were the real thing. They started their group to protect the poor and disenfranchised in the L.A. neighborhoods. They weren't perfect, no, but they had the right idea.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Yeah.... I can talk to the guy for hours.
He says the reason they adopted the bad-ass persona (he lives in NYC) was to get the attention of young black people, not necessarily to scare Whitey. But the Powers That Be kind of turned the tables on them.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. God forbid that there be a black man with a gun!
After hundreds of years of murdering, kidnapping, enslaving, torturing, raping, and cheating black people, this country still panics when black people actually ask us to stop.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. Precisely. It was a tactical mistake - and they did enjoy white fear n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. What approach would have been more acceptable to the whites?
The establishment murdered Martin Luther King despite his non-violence. Martin Luther King didn't carry guns, but he was still enough of a threat to be murdered.

What part of "we aren't going to allow our people to be murdered and oppressed any longer" would have been acceptable, do you think?
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
79. When I offered free computer classes in a former crack house
I faced the problem head on, so to speak. What was acceptable? Let's see ... when I met the dealers in their own home to vouch for property (they didn't believe Chad had earned these fine electronic goods), they ignored me, not even saying, "Hello". In the south, this is unheard of.

Scary? Hell no. Chad enjoyed himself thoroughly, survived Florida's modern slavery system and when my mother passed away ... stopped by to offer a hug. I still have his testimonial in my press kit - and he appeared on the evening news w/me when our work was profiled.

So, I don't have "think". I've acted. What will you do today to make things better?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Well, I started this thread, to answer your question.
I don't recall questioning your credentials, however. I asked you what approach might have worked better for the Black Panthers?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. Wow.
Trippy.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. They enjoyed the fear of white racists.
So do I, frankly.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Smile.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
56. The powers that be unleashed COINTELPRO on them
They used misinformation, police repression, assassination, and fostering violence between other groups and the panthers to sow the seeds of factionalism and stop the black panthers.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. And stop a movement toward worker's rights and human rights, too.
Can't have that in a corporatist state.

We see what good this did.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #56
74. And it was the Weather Underground that uncovered COINTELPRO
by breaking into FBI offices. It's why the W.U. went free, because the FBI was pulling so much shit.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. It looks like we have a live one on this very thread.
Somebody's citing FBI documents downthread. Surprise surprise.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #74
99. It's nice to know that the US government can get away with criminal conspiracies
murdering citizens and violating their rights because they advocate for a different political path. The US government can engage in illegal wars and murder millions of people, with no one held accountable. But if a small group of people get fed up with that behavior and blow up a building with no one in it in a misguided attempt to change things, or break into an FBI office expose the levels of our governments criminality, they are terrorists.

What a world we live in.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. But if a couple of people get fed up and blow up a building full of children and feds
and they happen to be a right-winger, then they get called "misguided," get executed real fast, and then get forgotten. While the forty-year old organization of lefties who killed nobody but themselves is constantly trotted out as "terrorists!!!!"
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. I can remember in 1969 getting off the elevated in a poor neighborhood in Chicago
Edited on Fri Apr-18-08 01:48 PM by truedelphi
And being escorted to the apartment building that I ws visiting by one of the Black Panthers.

Maybe six months later around 3Am, the leaders of the Black Panthers got assassinated by the Chicago police.

At first, the newspapers claimed that the police had simply gone to arrest them, but the BP had interfered and opened fire.

It was later determined that the hundreds of rounds of ammo fired on the scene came from the police.

The Black Panthers got off one and only one shot - and that one hit the ceiling - as the shooter hadn't even had time to sit upright in bed when the police with their guns ablazing, stormed into his bedroom.

Thus ended an era of BP sponsored child care centers, free clinics, food banks, etc.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Thank you for witnessing for the truth.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. The Black Panthers were good people too.
The biggest threat to white america is free school breakfast programs, apparently.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
62. Some were. Some weren't
Don't gloss over the truth of the past. Never helpful.

Although without a doubt the media portrayal was almost entirely distorted. Just as some of the white liberal awe was misguided and quite farcical.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. As a matter of fact
Edited on Fri Apr-18-08 01:38 PM by yourguide
they made it a point to set up the bombs so they would detonate in the middle of the night when the fewest people would be in the building and would call in ahead of time to evacuate anyone in the building.

their goal was simply to harm the government, and speak out against the government, not to harm any individual. they took special care NOT to harm people.

I suggest you all netflix "the weather underground"...it's a great film, they aired it on PBS multiple times.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Their goal was to stop the war.
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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
33.  Vietnam.......Millions were dying.......there was a draft......police crackdowns
I went to DC to protest the Iraq war in 2004. Thousands were dying. People still dying. What I did wasn't enough. Nothing has been enough. Imagine millions dying and your Friends, family, neighbors being drafted. I can't....Vietnam and the Holocaust just blow my mind. How could people let it happen. I don't condone what they did but I get it.

Anyone truly interested in understanding the way it was can watch this documentary:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808456154/info

and as fellow DUer, chascarrillo pointed out, it can be downloaded for free with netflix.

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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. In 1981 The Weathermen killed killed two police officers and a Brinks guard
I suppose you want me to spoon feed you now, in light of the fact that you failed to do your own homework on this.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Wrong. The Weathermen didn't even exist then.
Former members of that and other groups killed people in 1981, but it was a completely different group, and Ayers and his wife had long since severed their relationships with it.

The Weathermen died in 1970.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
49. Oh brother
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_ (organization)

October 20, 1981 - Brinks robbery in which Kathy Boudin and several members of the Weather Underground and the Black Liberation Army stole over $1 million from a Brinks armored car at the Nanuet Mall, near Nyack, New York on October 20, 1981. The robbers were stopped by police later that day and engaged them in a shootout, murdering two police officers and one Brinks guard as well as wounding several others.



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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Just because wiki says it doesn't mean it's true.
The group in 1981 calling themselves the Weather Underground had nothing to do with the earlier group. They were tag-alongs. They were johnny-come-latelies.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Oh please do... cause you're thinking about that lady that Clinton pardoned.
Edited on Fri Apr-18-08 01:39 PM by redqueen
*sigh*



See what I mean? About resistance to factual information? It's like an epidemic here.


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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it, or something like that.
This country is full of willfully ignorant people who have had their brains washed in lies manufactured by the corporate-owned media. It makes me very angry, and has pushed my views far further to the left than before.

I used to consider myself sort of middle of the road. Now I call myself a socialist. Marx looks wiser all the time.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Willfully ignorant.
Spot on.

Other than selfishness, that's about the least forgivable trait I can think of.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. The two seem to go hand-in-hand.
Those who are making profits from this war - and those who believe that somehow they too will someday profit - are willing to turn a blind eye to just about anything, including murder, rape, and torture.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. Different group, numbnuts
At least try and get your slime lined up before you splooge it all over these boards, 'Mkay???
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. The Weathermen and later the Weather Underground Organization, was was a violent radical left group
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Just because wiki says it, doesn't mean it's true.
And even that wiki article - which contains numerous errors of facts - notes that it was former members who were involved in the 1981 killings. Not Ayers. Not his wife.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Oh, but did you specify Ayers in your op?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I specified 1970 as the end of the group.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
71. Wrong again. The FBI said the group went underground in the early 70s, did not end.

Had you done your homework on this, instead of my having to spoon feed you, you would have found that the in 1976 the FBI's Chicago Field Office prepared 420 pages of documenation on the activities of the group.

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/weather.htm


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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. The FBI never lies or misrepresents anything.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. But the FBI offered a lot more proof than you did, didn't they.
By the way, are Obama followers now supporting these killers?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. Definitely. Obama followers support killers. The evidence is all around you.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. The question was rehtorical. Your inability to offer as much proof as the FBI did .....
makes your argument extremely weak.

AMEN
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. Maribelle, the FBI "proof" was all thrown out of court.
Why? Because the Weather Underground broke into the FBI office, and found evidence that the FBI was spying on Martin Luther King, spying on John Lennon, assassinating Black Panther leaders, and plotting to blow up Americans in terrorist attacks and blame it on leftist radicals.

Remember that? No?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. I have a feeling that one of two things is true.
Either (1) Maribelle remembers it well or (2) Maribelle wasn't alive when it happened. Either way, I think that Maribelle has a lot more involvement in this than "she" has chosen to share here.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. If they're "killers..."
Does that make Clinton an accomplice for pardoning them?
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Unfortunately, the killers got away. The women were mere go-fers.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. self delete. Crabby post.
Edited on Fri Apr-18-08 02:33 PM by cliffordu
:sarcasm:
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. Will you be leaving right after she steps down or will you
hang around until after the General Election??
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. Are you having a problem staying on topic?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Your topic is specious and based on willfully ignorant half truths.
On that basis, I say, Yes!! I can stay on topic
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. Are you just making this up as you go along?
Like one of those "round robin" stories where one person writes a sentence and then another person writes another?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #89
96. LOL!
Fear, uncertainty and distrust. The FUD factor. They're taught it in...you know.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #83
101. Who did Bill Ayers kill, again?
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #83
120. Oh, I see, you have a lower opinion of women than the Weathermen did?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Different people using the same sort of name.
Stop with the willful ignorance....

This is Democratic Underground...


What about the Weather man???

Weather Underground:

http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getFore...
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PM7nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Didn't they call the police telling them what building they were going to bomb?
So the police could evacuate that building?
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes.
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
128. Well, that makes it all better then.
:crazy:
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Weather Underground Killed One Less Person Than Laura Bush's Car. n/t
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. !!!
:applause:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your attempt to spread facts is appreciated.
However I fear it's all for naught.

There are people claiming Bill didn't do anything but sign NAFTA right after he took office, cause all the work was done by GHW Bush. So... no fault on Bill for any of that... at all.

*sigh*
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thank YOU yardwork! :) (n/t)
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Love you cat! She/he looks just like mine!
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. Clinton pardoned two Weathermen
relax ok?

this is such a non-goer, even McInsane will back the fuck up

Mario Savio taught Community College

Jerry Rubin... didn't he become a Stock Broker for chrissake?

and the Hippies? Good grief... high times magazine, Pirate economics... enter Milt Friedman and the Log Cabin Republicans...

this is all such ancient news it's of ZERO value... just a nasty spoon at the bottom of the kitchen sink
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. They weren't Weathermen. They were a much later group.
I agree with your points, though. It should be a non-issue. I just felt it was important to get some facts out there. That line "They blew up the Pentagon!" is a direct quote from a long-time DUer posted in one of today's handwringing threads.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. thanks for the correction... I'll read more when I'm not distracted by real bullets
you're right...

my ignore function is better than xanax

we DO have a REAL problem or two... and there is VERY little discussion of longer term tactics

My fellow Obama supporters seem to be heavily distracted with trifling, short term battles... getting our energy, artfully funelled nowhere

it's a bit frustrating
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
36. Everyone - thank you for the recs!
As an old history major, it irritates me to see blatant falsehoods spread about U.S. history. There's plenty of gore and bad behavior to be found - just assign it to the right people, m'kay?
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
38. But Hillary helped GWB kill 4,000 US troops and over a million Iraqis
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Sh! That's not important! Look over there! Weathermen!
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
109. Yikes! I see 'em too!
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. Timothy McVeigh wouldn't have killed anyone if he had died while building his explosives.
Incompetence does not mitigate intent.

As for the Black Panthers, interestingly, Obama grabbed Bobby Rush's district in Chicago. I have a soft spot for the Black Panthers, as I believe they were much maligned by the media. But the Weathermen? Play the word association game with people and chances are the first word they think of is "bombs." The Weathermen have no one to blame but themselves for that.

Some mistakes follow us all our lives. C'est la vie.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:07 PM
Original message
The Weathermen and Weather Underground were too different groups.
Some mistakes are just fucking stupid. C'est la vie.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you for your correction.
You're just so damn sweet, it's hard to believe you support Obama.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. You're so naive and intellectually dishonest...
I have no problem believing you "support Clinton."
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. You don't know me. So don't pretend you do. n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Your posts tell us everything we need to know.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. The Weathermen didn't intend to kill anybody, as far as I can tell.
I'm not defending them. But it's stupid and ill-informed to go around saying "they blew up the Pentagon!" or "they murdered innocent people!"
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. Mistakes happen. I'm sure they didn't intend to kill themselves, either.
Explosives as a method of protest just don't sit well with most people. :(
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. I doubt that anybody disagrees with that.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
119. What did they intend?
In spite of their incompetence?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #119
126. As far as I can tell, they wanted to end the war in Vietnam.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. I'm sure you're happy that most of them killed themselves in 1970, then.
The remaining members went on to successful careers as professionals.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. I'm not happy to see anyone kill themselves with explosives.
Or to kill anyone else with explosives. Why would you say that? :shrug:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. You seem to feel more strongly angry against the Weathermen than against bushco.
Terry Robbins, one of three Weathermen who died, was a friend of my family's. I don't agree with his tactics, but I don't think he was doing it out of greed or the desire for profit or power, either. He wasn't an evil person.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. We're not discussing the BFEE in this thread.
I guess you can search the archives for my former vehemently-worded posts against bush.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. I am. The BFEE is all I discuss on this board.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
43. The end of the group was not when some of their members blew themselves
up, they weren't even "underground" at that point yet. They changed tactics considerable after that though. Still blowing stuff up but being extraordinarily careful to ensure no one was near their bombs when they set them off.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. It was the end of the Weathermen and the end of Ayers's involvement.
And that should be the end of this silly distraction. Obama does not support violent radical groups. There is nothing in Obama's policies or history that indicates any support whatsoever for anything violent or particularly radical.

People running around DU playing six degrees of separation should be ashamed of themselves.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
55. They were incompetent
Left a nice whole on 11th street though. (Filled in now.)
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
68. She didnt say they did... she said the bombs killed people and they did.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Who is she?
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #70
106. Hillary, in the debate, she said "and people died", she did not say that they murdered people.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. Who said anything about Hillary? I wasn't talking about her.
You're the first person to bring up Hillary in this thread. You're seeing insults where none exist. My OP was about uninformed posts on DU.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. Then why did Clinton pardon them?
:shrug:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #77
97. Thanks Hooligan. Meanwhile the fact that the debate mods
Asked this question abt one single rather unknown individual, means they could avoid bringing up a discussion of the men and women who have destroyed millions -Cheney, Bush, Powell, Rice, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, the heads of Blackwater and Halliburton, Gonzales, etc.

Let's face it - most people have never heard of Bill Ayers, and many of the millions this nation is destroying curse the people I am naming every moment of their lives.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #77
107. the difference is that this guy is unrepentant to this day and the others paid their debt in prison.
Edited on Fri Apr-18-08 04:28 PM by Texas Hill Country
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #107
112. What should he repent? Thinking mean thoughts about the gubmint?
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. there are a whole lot of people that found that offensive. very offensive.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #116
125. It's unpatriotic not to question one's government.
It's unpatriotic to insist that everybody support the U.S. government, right or wrong. It's against the point of the U.S. Constitution, which states that it is our obligation as citizens to watchdog our government.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #112
124. Repent being against the Viet Nam war?
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
91. The Weather Underground is bad, but Orlando Bosch is an American hero?
Funny how if you're a mass murderer who blows up airplanes, you're ok in America as long as you're right wing and a Republican donor; but if you're a left winger who blows up an empty building, you're the devil incarnate.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #91
98. A moment of sanity. Thank you.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #91
122. Noooo!! Smeagol hates nassty facts. We dont want to hear them, no precious..We dont want them to Be!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
103. Bushler killed 4000+ American soldiers and John McCain supports him and will continue his policies.


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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. A breath of fresh air!
Hugs to you, Swampie!
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
108. they are the best source of weather on the internet
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #108
113. I know. I can't believe how they're being slandered here.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
118. OH MY GOD!! Photographic evidence that Obama consorts with terrorists.


Although, neither one of them look too happy about it. Looks more like each one is trying to apply the death grip.

My point being, this "hanging with terrorists" meme being drummed up by Clinton campaign hitmen really makes me wonder if Hillary is actually being paid under the table by John McCain.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #118
127. LOL! "My grip is stronger than yours."
No need to wonder who won. Obama will be our next president and Rumsfeld is....where is Rummy these days, anyway?
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
121. "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows,"
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
123. But Hillary said "people died" and Bill Ayers wrote something on 9/11 isn't that HUGH!!!!!
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
129. Hillary on the other hand was once a republican
and they have blown a lot of shit up, and killed a lot of people.
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