Obama chides Carter on Hamas meeting, yet he had to "reach out" to homophobes to have a "dialog"

[Bluebear]

"If we don't talk to our enemy, we're just like Bush" I was told when people insisted that we must include anti-gay bigots in the campaign. I don't get it.

[ShortnFiery]

1. B.S. Obama respects Carter, but he also knows that it is "risky" and "not authorized" for him

to go. I admire Jimmy Carter, a true humanitarian - BUT - he has to act in concert with our government. Like in North Korea, Jimmy Carter can "reach out" BUT NOT on behalf of Our Government.

On Edit: There's been NO GROUNDWORK for Jimmy Carter's trip and the current President does NOT support him. :shrug:

[uponit7771]

2. zzzz, thud

[Bluebear]

3. Whatever did DU do without you all these years?

[baby_mouse]

4. A fat harvest for your ignore list is on the way, Bluebear.

And mine.

Good thread, for that at least.

[Bluebear]

6. ---

[DJ13]

5. .......

[Bluebear]

10. Ha ha! Boy I'm going to have to remember to use that snappy picture!

:eyes:

[MadBadger]

7. In Non-Bizarro world, Terrorists do not equal anti-gay bigot.

[Bluebear]

9. Well, I'm just bizarre, you know.

[JoFerret]

27. What world is that?

You want to live in it?

[cali]

8. LOL. What a lack of intellectual acuity you demonstrate with this

piece of contortionist nonsense. Not all things or events or comparable. This surely isn't. Obama's screw up with McClurkin is wholly unrelated to the matter of Hamas or the serious matter of I/P and our questionable role there. The exigencies that force any candiate for president to repudiate Carter's meeting with Hamas are worth discussing. Obama's willingness to have a dialog with homopobes and others who don't support full civil rights for the GLBT community, is worth discussing. Trying to pair the two, is shallow bullshit.

[TankLV]

13. and yet, on all your posts, you continue to try to DEFEND obama's actions on these instances...

why is that?

[cali]

18. I don't. I've never defended Obama on McClurkin. He was flat wrong

and I've said so dozens of times. Why do you lie so much?

[TankLV]

11. funny - you noticed that too, huh?!

and they STILL try defend that and that ASSHOLE BIGOTED preacher...

[Tarc]

12. So let's see if we can get St. Obama's hypocrisy straight here

Obama has indicated on numerous occasions that he will reach out to Iran, a supporter and funder of Hamas, and seek to negotiate rather than the current Bush style of antagonizing rhetoric?

But he condemns Jimmy Carter for reaching out to Hamas, rather than the current Bush style of antagonizing rhetoric?

Hrm...

[nichomachus]

15. You people just don't get it

If Obama were talking about negotiating with Iran as a private citizen, then you would have a case, but he's not. He's talking about doing it as president.

The argument against Carter free-lancing it with Hamas is that he is now a private citizens and governments get a little upset with private citizens being free-lance diplomats. I'm sure that when Obama is in the White House, he will take a dim view of Dubya bouncing around making deals with the Saudis etc.

This lack of understanding of the issue and shrieking "hypocrite" all the time makes the Hillary people look really foolish.

[Bluebear]

16. I am not "a Hillary people", actually.

[Tarc]

20. The only lack of understanding here come from O-Bot true believers like you, I'm afraid

Carter has done more humanitarian work and conducted more diplomatic missions then a green-thumbed nugget like Obama could ever hope to. Carte isn't some rich, jet-setting globetrotter out to make a name for himself; he does these sorts of missions in the interests of bringing warring sides together.

Perhaps Obama and his loyalistas could pull their heads out of their assholes for a moment and stop trying to appease conservatives by lining up behind Bush to slam Jimmy Carter's courageous missions.

[Bluebear]

21. There is a real disrespect of anyone who has come before, isn't there?

It's as if the Democratic Party only began this year and nobody paved the way :(

[nichomachus]

22. That would make so much more sense if I were an Obama supporter

I'm not saying Carter isn't a good person. I like him. And I dislike Bush as much as anyone. But it is not in the nation's interests to have free-lancers running around trying to negotiate with foreign governments.

It's a terrible precedent to set.

How would the Hillary people feel if she won and then Obama started globe-hopping to cut deals with foreign governments? We're seeing right now how Hillary has suffered because Bill is working at cross-purposes with her on trade deals.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. Whoa. I thought the official position was that Hamas is NOT a

legitimate government. So how could Carter be negotiating with a foreign government if it is not a foreign government?

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think he took the wrong tack on this - Carter is a private citizen who can talk to whomever he wants. Obama should have taken a publicly neutral stance - it's through contacts like this that real developments can eventually emerge.

Carter is trusted by both sides - no matter what the Israeli official position might be - and if he can find some common points on which to later base formal talks, more power to him.

[nichomachus]

24. Not quite true

Private citizens cannot talk to whomever they want. If you were to go to Cuba to talk to Raul Castro, you would be in serious deep shit when you got back. Guaranteed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. That's because travel to Cuba is forbidden. Travel to Palastine

is discouraged but not forbidden. So far as I know, the only places Americans can't go are Cuba and North Korea, and there is nothing that says we can't talk to them if we don't got there.

Private citizens MAY talk to any damn person they want to, if that person is not under restraint by the government and wants to talk to them.

I have no idea where you came up with that.

[JoFerret]

29. Who are this "you people"?

.

[haymakeragain]

17. More simpleton logic.

Keep tryin' Tarc, but I'm afraid it ain't gonna help. People just don't like Hillarious enough. Sorry.

[cali]

19. Let's talk about the forces in American politics that

make it political death for a presidential candidate to endorse something like Carter's talking to Hamas. Can it be changed? What needs to happen? And btw, Iran is a powerful state, Hamas is not a state actor. And he's condemned the bush rhetoric far more than Hillary and she's criticized him harshly on his willingness to hold direct talks with Ahmadinejad and Chavez. Maybe we should talk about your rank hypocrisy.

[lark]

31. Bingo

You hit the nail exactly on the head. Hillary just plain "lies", but when Obama doesn't tell the truth, it's OK because it's politically expedient. Typical, OK for the man but not OK for the woman BS.

[haymakeragain]

14. Gawd, how simple.

Damn it's hard to please everyone. What one instance are you complaining about?

[JoFerret]

26. Bloody right. Unity and love

What crap

[Skip Intro]

28. Stop making sense!!!!

[BeyondGeography]

30. But he did attend closed-door fundraisers in San Francisco

you know, that place Hillary has been referring to with her dog whistle.