About Obama/Wright...

[liam_laddie]

Excellent column on Obama/Wright (cross-posted as a reply in GD)

From an article about the Rev. Wright dust-up, by an assistant prof at Xavier, a Jesuit institution here in Cincinnati. Published in today's (4/8/08) Cincinnati Enquirer. Thoughtful and spot on, IMHO.
Excerpts below, worth reading the entire article here:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080408/EDIT02/804080316

Wright's teachings are part of African-American opposition to empire
BY ADAM CLARK
Does the fiery rhetoric of Sen. Barack Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, undermine Obama's well-crafted narrative of national reconciliation? Is it poor judgment on Obama's part to be a 20-year member of a church that preaches such a controversial, inflammatory message?

Obama's recent speech on race and politics was an attempt to quell the moral panic introduced to his presidential campaign through the latest Willie Horton stunt - the endless repetition of sound bites and video clips that caricature the ministry of a prominent African-American minister.

-snip-

Wright, however, is a preacher; his oath is not to the Constitution but to the Gospel. The statements of Wright may be out of step with the presidential politics of the Obama campaign, but they are not out of step with biblical faith. The forceful denunciations of America's invasion of Iraq, her support for the unjust practices of foreign governments as well as the invocation of God's wrath for the inhumane treatment of blacks and people of color are not the crazed anti-American ranting of an old uncle, but statements about the meaning of faith in a God who upsets the powers through identifying with the poor and marginalized.

-snip-

Anxiety and uneasiness about the speech acts of black preachers such as Wright should be replaced by anger at the events and conditions that give rise to their fire. Instead of repeating patterns that stigmatize and disqualify these voices from a dialogue on reconciliation and democracy, such voices should be partners in finding more authentic grounds for conversation.

Adam Clark is an assistant professor in the Department of Theology at Xavier University.

edited to correct link. BTW Clark is African-American.

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. You can't liberate w/lies.

The govt did not create AIDs for genocide or invent crack deliberately.

There's no excuse for this - it doesn't help anyone.

[DerekJ]

3. Fredda Weinberg , I remember you .. For a Jewish who had some of his/her family tortured and killed

under the Nazi regime, you for one should understand, How anger about mistreatment can last for years.

Or what do you think?


You called it a lie, yet you don’t actually know if he actually believes what he is saying.

[Fredda Weinberg]

13. And I'm supposed to be angry at whom, exactly?

I know that the cycle of hatred can be broken ... and it's kind of shocking that you would encourage others to keep it going.

Whether or not Wright believes the vitriol he's spewing, it's still a lie.

[DerekJ]

18. 4 hours later I get an answer... Let me discect your hipocracy.

"Whether or not Wright believes the vitriol he's spewing, it's still a lie."


lie2 (lī)
n.
1-A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2- Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.


An important criteria of lying is to have the intention to deceive. If you believe your statements to be true, and the statements turned out to be false, you are either mistaken, or ignorant.

So when you just called him a liar, you yourself, are either ignorant of the definition of the word “lie”, or you are purposefully disingenuous.

“I know that the cycle of hatred can be broken”
A full branch of my family is Jewish, and I know damn well that no one has forgotten, especially the elders. So .. ummm.. Don’t play the “We’re all over it” crap .. won’t fly with me.

As of me encouraging the vitriol, I am really surprised that this was your conclusion of what I said. I am not encouraging it, I am excusing it. There is a big difference. Who am I, or for that matter who are you, to tell a minority how they voice their anger against injustice that have been done to them?!!

Just imagine if someone would to tell the Jewish community “Shut up about the concentration camps already”.
Or is it just because they are black?!!!

edit: html tag

[Fredda Weinberg]

20. I haven't forgotten ... how can I? But I don't hate Germans

I don't have to imagine someone telling Jews to forget about concentration camps ... heard it my whole life.

And Wright lied according to your definition. He never offers evidence for his accusations, but presenting them from the pulpit is definitely meant to create an impression.

If you want to encourage anger generation after generation, go ahead. But spewing at me is just venting.

[DerekJ]

22. And Wright doesn't hate white people, and If you don't believe me I can show you some of his white

pastor friends, coming to his defense saying "how could you say he is racist, when we have been his friends, and have known him for along time?!!"

Wright is speaking about the injustices done to him and to his generations, the same way the Jews speaks about the atrocities they have faced. They don't hate Germans, but they have to mention them when they speak about the brutality they had to endure.

When you speak about the Germans, you are speaking about the Nazi, Gestapo Germany, not the modern day Germans who have nothing to do with what their ancestors have committed. When Wright is speaking about whites, he is speaking about the whites that have humiliated him, and enslaved his ancestors, not the modern day whites, that have done no wrong to him.
He befriends whites; the same way Jews befriends Germans now.

Wright didn’t lie, he was echoing the already existing believes in the black community, False as they might be, you can’t proclaim all the black people who believe in those rumors as liars. Fools, and ignorant may be. Liars; No.

“But spewing at me is just venting.”
I am not sure I follow you here. But if you think I am black venting about the injustices done to me, let me correct you; I am a white Canadian.

[Fredda Weinberg]

23. I didn't make any assumptions about you or even Wright, but I do

know hate mongers when I hear one. You excuse the libel by noting that it's a common belief in the Black community ... I know ... I listen to public access and have heard this all before. No, they are not fools ... like bigots past, they know the easiest way to build cohesion is to create external enemies.

BTW, you're wrong about the target of Wright's fury ... listen again. It's not at whites of old or I'd be right along with him. Instead, he's condemning this generation - and personally, I don't bear any guilt for him to play on.

[DerekJ]

24. Well, You might not like what I will say next, but I will say it anyways.

I've engaged a several Jewish people in a discourse about Rev. Wright. The more honest ones shouted their concerns straight away. They said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that we could care less about his rhetoric. They also said, they have themselves shared similar injustices ("kike" was mentioned in the conversation), and they can certainly relate. What really bother them, and what they greatly disturbed about is his pro-Palestinian / Hamas views.

Let me stop here and add that my family has Israelis in them, but also some of them are Jews who have repeatedly voiced their concern against injustices being done to the Palestinians by Israel (You don't want to be on the dinner table when they start getting at each other throats).

Your post shows no substantiated reason for your great dislike (Dare I sat apparent hate) to him, so that leaves me with this as the only way to explain it.

[cliffordu]

4. Well, fuck it then. I'm NOT voting for Wright, ever again!!!

[GoldieAZ49]

6. nor am I voting for him or those that condone and fund him

be it for 20 years or 20 days.

[cliffordu]

7. Yeah, except that Wright isn't running.....

:hi:

[GoldieAZ49]

5. It helps those that make their money off of racial divisions

Truth doesn't matter to them, they are selling hate, anger and division.

It is sickening.

[Tellurian]

9. Promoting racism from the pulpit!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. LOL

If you were concerned about people benefiting from racial divisions you wouldn't be engaging in race baiting attacks on Rev. Wright.

[GoldieAZ49]

11. Wright has race baiting attacks down to a fine art

and his $1.6 million dollar home is a fine payoff for him

[Saturday]

2. Someone better tell Adam Clark that the Presidential candidate

has denounced Wright's words. Take up your argument with him.

[liam_laddie]

8. Oh, brother...it's NOT an argument.

Clark is saying that in order to understand what a patriotic (Wright is a Marine and medical corpsman vet - if military service is one's only measure of being a patriot) African-American Christian preacher thinks about certain aspects of this country's history, one cannot take ONLY a few words from one sermon out of 30 years of content, and inflate it to a full portrait of the man. Oh, wait! Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly won't agree with me...TFB.
If one knows about Wright's history, his use of the word "damn" as a verb has plenty of precedent in the Old Testament. Jahweh used it quite a bit when he/she/it was pissed.
Read the entire article please...

[DrFunkenstein]

12. Prepared Sermon in MLK's Pocket When He Died: "Why America May Go to Hell."

It was to be the talk immediately following his "I Have Been to The Mountaintop" speech.

You cannot look at the state of blacks in America - recall for a moment the world revealed by Hurricane Katrina - without confronting disappointment, indignation and rage. You cannot transcend those emotions without confronting them. You can only cover them over until they inevitably bubble up again.

Furthermore, you cannot begin to examine the soul of race in America without looking at poverty and injustice coming as a direct action of the federal government. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We cannot perpetrate violence on others "without batting an eye," only to stare in wonder when violence is returned to our shores. That is not creating a moral equivalence, nor is it a justification of terrorism. But it is our duty as human beings to look at this with clear eyes and allow our hearts to feel that suffering. By doing so, we can allow for transcending the mistakes of our past and working towards a more perfect union.

[liam_laddie]

15. Thanks for this post...

The US of A is tasting just a bit of hell right now; I suspect it'll get much worse in the near future.

[2rth2pwr]

14. What kind of Preacher willfully breaks the 10 commandments during service?

"You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name."
This commandment is to never take the name of God in a vain

"GodD*mn America, ..US of theKKK A.."

[liam_laddie]

16. Who defines "wrongful" or "misuses," much less "in vain?" n/t

[2rth2pwr]

17. ...

We are to fear and love God so that we do not use his name superstitiously, or use it to curse, swear, lie, or deceive, but call on him in prayer, praise, and thanksgiving.

[Skip Intro]

19. He practially preached that Hillary was enemy number one of the AA community.

I saw it as racist bullshit, and still do. I can read the spin here, but every time I watch that clip, the reality is unmistakable.

I want no part of that racist hatemongering. NONE.

[Willo]

21. What kind of preacher would kill another person?

People really need to stop saying they would leave a church where the pastor said this or did that.
You might want to educate yourselves on the leaders in the bible.

A couple of "oops" from some of the biggest, well-known, men of God include:

Moses - a murderer
David - a murderer and adulterer - plotted and killed the husband of the wife he was sneaking around with.
Paul - a mass murderer

Sounds like the story Jesus told about the man who prays "Lord, at least I'm not like him."

Jesus would probably say to you, "Oh ye hypocrites"