"They (young women) shouldn't be punished with a baby." Obama

[elixir]

Obama made this statement in a recent rally in PA when asked about abortion etc.

"They (young women) shouldn't be punished with a baby."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Stop_these_abortions_.html

Andrea Mitchell, that bastion of honesty, truth and the almighty dollar, brought it up in an interview with an Obama surrogate. There was a lot of tap dancing.

Sounds like Obama has another problem on his hands. He'll have to spend precious campaign time cleaning up his mess... again.

[Alexander]

1. First the Shillbots claim he's secretly pro-life, then they attack him for being pro-choice.

He can't win with you guys, can he?

[redqueen]

4. He's a republican mole! He's too liberal!

:crazy:

[americanstranger]

30. Too black! Not black enough!

They never freakin' stop, do they?

I'd give them points for persistence if they weren't just posting lame 'gotcha' points.

- as

[EmilyAnne]

118. He's muslim! Wait, he's a christian....but not the right kind!!

[Texas Hill Country]

180. that statement implies a bit more than pro-choice... it goes way deeper than that.

[Kittycat]

OH NOES!!! This is HUGH - SERIES!!!111!!oneeleventy!1!

:eyes:
Who would have thought... A democrat that is PRO-CHOICE!!!

[elixir]

23. Hey, it could be. Who would think a father of two would categorize parenthood as punishment.

[redqueen]

60. Say it slowly... "con...text"

He didn't say ALL children are a punishment... but for a young mother who can't support a baby?

:think:

:eyes:

[Kittycat]

120. I know you're not that clueless...

Forcing a 16yo to keep an unwanted child is PUNISHMENT.

[Kittycat]

136. Elixir... Here's some more context for you

Enjoy :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5329963

[bobbert]

137. Only for his own daughters, not all women like you say in the OP

I think a father has a right to consider something a punishment if his daughters disobey him. Whether they consider it is a burden or a blessing is up to them.

[tblue37]

152. The wingnuts who want Roe v. Wade overturned want to hang an

unwanted baby around the woman's neck like an albatross. They often say things like "You wanted to have your fun, but now you don't want to pay the price." This is the attitude he is referring to when he says that forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is intended by some as a way of "punishing" her for having sex and thinking she should not "pay the price," which is how they (the wingnuts) think of an unwanted pregnancy.

Furthermore, I believe you posters who are attacking him over his use of the word know this is what he was referring to, but you are nitpicking and being deliberately obtuse because you are so desperate to find any fault with him.

Please, give it a rest.

[Erin Elizabeth]

2. I love quotes with absolutely no context.

They're so easy to understand!

:sarcasm:

[elixir]

7. Here you go.... Don't trip on your tongue.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Stop_these_abortions_.html

[Alter Ego]

13. Um, I hate to break it to you, but put in context there's nothing wrong with it.

"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

That's what he said. He was referring to his daughters being punished for potentially making mistakes that would leave them with a baby they weren't ready to take care of.

That's all it means.

[elixir]

61. I think there are plenty of better choices than "punishment" - "daunting responsibility" for one.

[moriah]

81. Perhaps "Punished by pregnancy"? Better?

I hope you read another post I made here. Bottom line is that parenthood and babies are not punishment.

Holding a woman hostage by her body and making her endure a potentially life-threatening condition when it is not her choice very well could be considered punishment.

[MADem]

83. I agree. No matter WHAT the context, it was an idiotic choice of words. NT

[CreekDog]

145. shoulda, woulda, coulda...

on the campaign trail for 2 years, i think saying things that could have been said better is the norm for even the best candidate.

i'm bored... :boring:

[MADem]

173. Well, if you're bored, why bother chiming in? The topic must have some attraction,

unless you're just spinning your wheels here for shits and giggles....

[DLnyc]

108. ??? "I think . . . plenty ... better ... punishment" ???

You think punishment is plenty better? You are a fanatical sadist!!

[elixir]

151. ouy otg ti, LncyD. Hyw n'tdo oyu codede sith neo?

[endarkenment]

111. If the state forces you to remain pregnant against your will

that is not a 'daunting responsibility' it is a vile punishment.

[elixir]

153. You Obamaphiles are so wrapped in knee jerk rheotoric you don't understand

the point of this post. I agree with his stance but he could have made his point in a myriad of different ways, the use of "punishment" was ugly at best.

[elmerdem]

160. you, just you, elixir

are the problem. You are worried about his choice of an ugly word? Hmmm...bad choice of a word or fabricating, completely, being under sniper fire & repeating it 4 times until you are caught &then saying you misspoke. Which would show the true character of a presidential candidate? & you call people names for "their" knee jerk rhetoric? Oh the irony!!!

[gcomeau]

21. From your link...

...not that I needed it since I watched him say this live on the CNN feed:

"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

Oh no, he surely has to do damage control in this. He doesn't want his daughters getting pregnant or infected with an STD when they're 16 years old, what was he thinking? He's totally going to lose the "pro teen pregnancy/pro-STD" demographic.

How desperate does someone have to be to try to spin that as a negative?

[Erin Elizabeth]

35. Well, as someone who is FOR the spread of STDs

I found his comments absolutely OFFENSIVE! It's GOOD for teenagers to get STDs, because then they can more readily recognize the symptoms later on when they are adults and get re-infected.

Duh.

This sets the whole pro-STD movement back by MONTHS. Months, I'm telling you. We have SO much work to do. Our KFSTD (Kids For Sexy Time Diseases) group is going to go ballistic over this.

[elixir]

67. And I think all teenage mothers should be told they're being punished!! I'm with you.

[Erin Elizabeth]

96. Unfortunately for your argument, he was talking

about his own two daughters. Not all teenagers with children.

[gcomeau]

128. Be better than that. Please.

I am extremely confident that you know damn well that if a teenage girl is forced to have a baby she doesn't want then it damn well is punishment and no two ways about it.

Do you really want to pretend otherwise just to try to take Hillary's opponent down a tiny little peg? Are you going to put your ethics that low on your list of priorities here?

[elixir]

63. So when one of his daughter's becomes pregnant at 15 should he tell her she's being punished?

[bunnies]

79. Could you possibly twist this any more?

I dont think so.

Try to follow: a 15 year old being forced to have a baby she doesnt want IS being punished.

Do you really not get it? He was talking about ABORTION. Make the argument for a 15 year old to be forced to have a baby. Go ahead. Make that argument. Please.

[Megahurtz]

You are so ignorant

aren't you or are you just playing dumb?

[endarkenment]

112. No shit. This is crap from the Clinton dead enders. Rightwing Crap.

[Renew Deal]

124. Are Hillary's supporters pro-STD?

:rofl:

[jgraz]

159. Of course they are. To them, experience is an STD.

[Erin Elizabeth]

22. Ah, context! It's lovely!

"This is a very difficult issue, and I understand sort of the passions on both sides of the issue," he said. "I have two precious daughters — they are miracles."

But politicians must trust women to make the right decisions for themselves, he said.

"This is an example where good people can disagree," the Illinois senator said. "The question then is, are there areas that we can agree to that everybody can get behind? We can all agree that we want to reduce teen pregnancies. We can all agree that we want to make sure that adoption is a viable option."

The exchange appeared to be prompted by Obama's earlier comments that he does not favor abstinence-only education, but rather comprehensive sexual education that includes information on abstinence and birth control.

"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

***********

What exactly in that is he going to have to "clean up?"

[Renew Deal]

122. lol, another crisis du jour goes splat

:rofl:

Push this story so Obama's numbers jump another 5 points. :bounce:

[Bonobo]

3. Obama hates babies!!!

[elixir]

10. "Obama hates babies!!! " Thank you, you summed it up perfectly.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. ...and then he eats them!

[YOY]

82. Wif teh Muslimian KURRY POWDER SPICE!

and teh Revrind Right makes shure thay are onlee the wite babees!

[bunkerbuster1]

95. snort.

Good one.

[Guava Jelly]

5. You think this one will float

Another turd in the stool..
I love seeing people go out of their way to carry water for the right..Excellent job!!! :yourock: :sarcasm:
Now tell me why I should vote for your candidate without trashing mine :)

[peace13]

28. She's a snappy dresser? n/t

[Guava Jelly]

40. We do need a president that dresses nice

Thank you :)

[elixir]

70. You couldn't find a cute smilie that says "I love you". My candidate doesn't call

teenage pregnancy punishment.

[Larkspur]

6. I'm happliy single and cheerfully childfree and forcing me to have a baby against my will

is torture.

Good for Obama for seeing through the anti-abortionists facade.

[elixir]

73. Who the hell is forcing people to have babies?!! He said unwanted teenage pregnancies

are punishment. He doesn't have the right or the ability to make that judgment.

[EmilyAnne]

8. He ALSO said that he plans to punish convicted felons "with a baby!" This is a travesty!

I can understand giving them, like, an egg that they have to diaper and clean and care for like a baby. If the egg survives in the prison for an entire week without any cracks, the prisoners should be released. THAT makes sense. Giving them an actual human baby may be going too far. Then again, I blindly trust this man so whatever he says should be. The word made flesh and all that....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. So you're saying you're against a woman's right to choose?

I can't believe you, Elixir.

[elixir]

18. I'm against categorizing parenthood as a punishment. He could have said it much better,

he misspoke.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. OK

So what do you think the punishment for having an abortion should be?

[EmilyAnne]

36. Semantic as hell, you are. That's a last resort, you know? Attacking someone on tone, semantics,

minor timeline discrepancies, etc. It really is a silly waste of time, but its pretty funny to watch in a way. When this is all the critics have at this point, its a pretty good feeling.

[2rth2pwr]

134. "Don't tell me that words don't matter"

[EmilyAnne]

139. I'm sorry Hillary Clinton is not winning.

[anigbrowl]

66. It only seems that because you're misquoting him

"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

[truth please]

90. To Some Women It Is A Punishment

If you don't want a baby it is a punishment. Every woman does not think having a baby is wonderful. I think it is a personal choice and to have it forced on you is not wonderful. I know women that don't want children and get pregnant on birth control. Are they supposed to have a baby they don't want when they were being responsible? I guess they have to spend the rest of their lives not having sex to make some people happy. Mistakes happen people and you don't have to raise them for 18 years if you don't want to. If you do then God Bless You, if you don't God Bless you too!

[JuniperLea]

11. The baby would be punished by a mother that didn't want her/him...

Would be more accurate... but would probably have the GOP all over him.

Better his own should squabble about this... :eyes:

[elixir]

29. Parenthood does not equal punishment.

[Alexander]

38. Forcing someone to have a child against their will isn't punishment?

Okay. :crazy:

[moriah]

75. The baby isn't the punishment... continuing the pregnancy is.

I'll vote for someone to overturn Roe v. Wade the very instant that it is possible to transfer an embryo/fetus at all gestational ages post-implantation to another woman's uterus, or to an artificial womb. Adoption is one way to avoid having the baby, but so far there's no way at this time for a pre-viabile fetus to survive outside of the mother's womb -- which means a woman who does not want to have a child but whose birth control fails or who is raped must suffer a potentially life-threatening condition that is not of their choice, or let the baby that cannot survive without her die.

I was date-raped the month I started a new job. I hadn't expected to have sex and I'd been off of birth control for a long time. He didn't use a condom. I would have loved to have been a mother, but I hadn't been at the job long enough where I would be eligible for FMLA when the baby was born. They would have fired me, and if I hadn't been able to save enough money I would have to go on public assistance. Even if I'd given the baby up, I would have still lost my job. I was also taking medication contraindicated for pregnancy. (Yeah, even if I wasn't planning on having sex I shoulda stayed on BC if I was taking nasty stuff, but .... hindsight is always 20/20.). I needed the medication to be able to continue working. I was not in good health. I went to my doctor and discussed the idea of having a child, and he said that he would advise me not to get pregnant even if I came off of the medication, and reinforced the nastiness of the meds I was on for a baby.

I had an abortion.

I still grieve. The baby is never the punishment. But I could not justify continuing a pregnancy when it could potentially harm both me and the baby so much, even if I did give it up for adoption. For all I knew it was already harmed.

I know you agree with me, Alexander.

Take care, and thanks for being a guy who supports choice!

[Alexander]

80. I agree. I merely take issue with the lame attack by the OP.

These are the same kind of people who claim Obama is secretly pro-life, too. That's what bothers me.

They won't hesitate to contradict themselves if they think they can peel votes away from Obama. Which they can't.

[shimmergal]

138. Thank you for sharing your story.

It must have been terrible to be in that predicament.


I've often said that if anti-choice people would lobby for development of a "uterine replicator" (term borrowed from Lois Bujold's science fiction series), I could sympathize more with their other efforts. So far I haven't seen any willingness to take up this cause, which leads me to think it's as much about controlling women as about saving babies.

[Mooney]

44. If you're 16 years old and you have an unwanted pregnancy and you can't take care of the child

then it's a punishment for everyone involved, including the baby.

Why do you hate babies?

[elmerdem]

162. well I'm sure many parents would

say that sometimes it is equal to punishment & I'm sure your dumbass would take that out of context too.

Having a child is punishment when:
they do the same thing you did when you were their age.
they repeat something you said that you didn't want repeated in front of the person you said it about.
they point out that you are telling a lie when you have told them not to lie (even though it is an innocent white lie).

Look anyone can turn words around & use them anyway they want against the person who spoke them. You are doing it in this whole thread. But you are doing it in such an imbecilic way that you are making yourself look like an ass.

[Shakespeare]

I'm sorry. That's a bad statement HOW, exactly?

Sounds like a kind, thoughtful, pro-choice answer to me. :shrug:

[Barack_America]

12. So now you're advocating pro-life views?

I'm assuming that you put this statement up because you disagree with it.

So where does that put your views on abortion?

You think that abortion should NOT be available to young women who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant?

[elixir]

25. Parenthood does not equal punishment.

[Alexander]

39. The best you can do is repeat this lame talking point? How sad.

[elixir]

55. With choice, parenthood doesn't equal punishment. He "misspoke".

[Alexander]

62. The state forcing someone to have a child against their will is punishment.

If you don't think so, the 700 Club would love to have you.

As I said, Obama can't win with you Shillbots. First he's pro-life, now he's too pro-choice. :eyes:

[cali]

109. Pathetic. Just Pathetic. And completely dishonest to boot.

He was talking about unwanted teen pregnancy. Damn straight it feels like a punishment. I know.

[slinkerwink]

43. Parenthood in your teens does equal punishment

You try living in DC with pregnant 14 year olds on the subways.

[Barack_America]

46. So says the anti-choice movement.

Just take a moment to think of who you are aligning yourself with here.

Unplanned pregnancies often ARE a punishment; to the mother, but more importantly, to the child. This is just one of the reasons why women must always have the right to legal and safe abortions.

[madwivoter]

51. Certainly not in all cases, but it could if you were 16 years old...

...and pregnant because no one took the time to teach you that your actions can have very permanent consequences.

I don't see anything wrong with what he said, that's just my opinion.

[Drunken Irishman]

57. FORCING someone into parenthood IS a punishment. Drr.

[GodlessBiker]

92. Parenthood can equal punishment. It all depends.

[endarkenment]

107. State imposed parenthood certainly is.

Your supposed support for reproductive rights seems entirely dubious.

[Renew Deal]

125. Should I dare to ask your parents?

:evilgrin:

[NJSecularist]

14. More irrational OMGisms from Hillary's supporters. n/t

[Alter Ego]

17. It's kinda like when they decided that Obama hated women

from that forced-perspective shot of him looking at Hillary during a debate.

[Erin Elizabeth]

37. I was told I hated women

because I'm not for Clinton.

:eyes:

[bunnies]

15. A woman forced to have a child she does not want IS being punished.

Thats why we Democrats are pro-choice. REMEMBER?!

[anonymous171]

16. I thought he was secretely pro-life?

First he was a closet conservative, now he is too liberal. Get your messages straight.

[peace13]

19. Go on and finish the story.

There was more to the story as you know. Who was the man speaking for Obama? He went on to say that he has heard Obama speak passionately about the subject of abortion am I right? Obama speaks to the point that if things are better for young women, education, sex education, economy and the like, that the need for abortions would go down and that would answer the whole question.

You have tried to say something that was not said with our dear Andrea. I will admit that she was really looking for a story though.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. One can be pro-life personally but pro-choice for everyone else

[NDambi]

59. That's me!!!!

[SeattleGirl]

27. Sorry, but I have no outrge at this statement, because I have said exactly

the same thing many times. "Punished with a baby" is exactly how the Reich Wing looks at it: if a woman DARES spread her legs (doesn't matter if it was voluntarily or not), then NO abortion for her! SHE HAD SEX AND SHE MUST PAY!!!

Obama is saying no, babies ought not be punishment.

Sorry, nice try, but it doesn't work.

[jobycom]

31. Bad choice of words, nothing more. Of course, the way Obama supporters jump on Clinton

for every little issue, I guess I should want to make a big deal about it. It's the big things about Obama I don't like, though, not the occassional awkwardly-worded comment.

[goletian]

48. not a bad choice of words at all, imo. he considers his kids miracles...

so it makes sense for him not to want babies viewed as punishment for carelessness and/or ignorance.

[jobycom]

91. I thought that was sarcasm at first

now I'm wondering if you read his comments at all... ?

[goletian]

158. im lost - nt

[JayFredMuggs]

49. Obama supporters JUMP on Clinton?

Where? When?

I see Obama supporters wondering why she's running as the person with the most "experience", and then she has to make up LIES about her record.

[jobycom]

88. Got a mirror handy? Take a gander at it. nt

[Alexander]

146. So instead of providing examples, you retort with attacks.

Typical Shillbot.

[jobycom]

157. I responded with very specific example, and you backed that example with your next post.

Again, look in a mirror. Look at your attacks. Look at the phrase "Shillbot." You're my example. You're the proof.

[DerekJ]

32. Lowwwww Lowwwwwwwwwww

[ecstatic]

33. I'd prefer for the MSM to run with this story rather than the Wright story

Even though it's obviously a misspeak, many women would (even if secretly) agree that being forced to carry out an unwanted pregnancy is punishment.

[Mooney]

34. If you have to try this hard to manufacture a controversy,

then you're losing.

[Willo]

41. Stop reaching...

just help yourself to one

[DearAbby]

42. Obama is wrong to want to

give his daughters information/education, how to avoid pregnancy and STDs? There are consequences not being informed, like an unwanted pregnancy, aides, or both. Jesus, elixir...this is wrong?

[goletian]

45. i think hillary has finally secured the nomination thanks to this slip up, good catch! LOL - nt

[cliffordu]

47. In the news: Ho hum, another straw, another grab

:hurts:

[niyad]

50. what was the context a few weeks ago, when he said something

along the lines of supporting a woman's choice, so long as she made the decision "prayerfully"? seemed to rule out women who are not religious, and any woman who didn't feel the need to agonize over the decision. sorry, I don't have a link.

[JayFredMuggs]

52. Are you trying to grasp at another straw?

How about you explain first, how Hillary did that mis-speaking about snipers in Bosnia, OK?

[niyad]

76. are you comprehension-impaired? obviously, since I asked a direct

question to which I would like an answer. not "grasping at straws" here, although you can whine all you want to. and, if you haven't seen obama supporters here jumping on everything sen. clinton has said, then I would say you definitely have some comprehension problems. is the other site boring today?

[Alexander]

85. Are you reading-impaired? The OP makes it clear he's pro-choice.

Yes, because he's a Christian, he made that comment about women praying before making their decision. Whoop-de-doo.

"is the other site boring today?"

We Obama supporters typically don't frequent another site, unlike the Shillbots who boycotted DU for their own echo chamber. Nice try.

[niyad]

148. no, I am not reading-impaired. I understood exactly what the OP was

doing. I was asking a question about the context of another remark he made, which bothers me. as seems to be typical of obama supporters who cannot stand to have any questions raised about their candidate, you attacked me, instead of answering the question, and, again as usual, whined and then attacked. nice going--it gives me so much confidence to see how his supporters act.

shillbot? you are sure you are on the correct site?

[msallied]

53. *GASP* You mean he's... Pro-CHOICE????

[Garbo 2004]

54. Were you of childbearing age before Roe vs Wade? Wondering if you know what it was like then. nt

[pop goes the weasel]

56. how is that a problem?

It's something that is commonly said, and understood. Why would you be looking to make trouble and to distort the clear meaning that a baby shouldn't be a punishment?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. We shouldn't be punished with some of these stupid threads

:evilgrin:

[redqueen]

64. Heheheh.

Well, there is an ever-so-slight entertainment factor. :7

[proud2BlibKansan]

154. Ever so slight would be the operative phrase there

:rofl:

[uponit7771]

65. AMEN!!!

[rucky]

68. Well, they shouldn't be.

:shrug:

[SoCalDem]

69. Nope. he said it correctly

Having a baby at 15 IS a punishment

[UALRBSofL]

71. elixir, thanks for posting

I remember hearing Obama had spoke about the female vote and how he was pandering to them, but, I didn't hear about this statement. His statement sounds desperate to get the vote, but, discounting children is not the way to go about it.

[DrFunkenstein]

72. What a Scumbag! He Is Totally Unelectable! Only Clinton Can Speak Plainly and Honestly!

Any day now, his numbers are going to start going down. I know that his numbers have actually been increasing while Clinton's are decreasing into the largest gap of the year, but I am sure that she will win every one of the remaining contests by huge margins by reminding voters of Obama's misstatements.

[MadBadger]

74. Disgusting Hit Job by you and I would Expect Nothing Less.

He referred to his children as miracles and was talking about in terms of teenage pregnancy. Shame on you.

[Sparkly]

77. What was Andrea Mitchell's point?

I've discussed the issue with many people whose thinking goes to the guilt or innocence of the woman, as they see it. The most obvious example are people who say a victim of rape or incest should be allowed the freedom to choose abortion, but a woman who engaged in sex willingly and became pregnant should not. That's not about the "innocent life" of the fetus, or abortion as murder; it's about punishment for what they consider reckless behavior.

[Barack_America]

93. Yeah, isn't it funny how pro-lifers never seem to think of children, just fetuses?

They are more than willing to "punish" the child to a life with ill-prepared parents, low income, etc. Anything to exact their revenge on the woman for being "loose".

Restricting women's access to abortions IS punishment, and is intended to be exactly that.

[Sparkly]

97. Right.

As George Carlin said, "If you're pre-born, you're golden. If you're pre-school, you're fucked."

[David__77]

78. This won't hurt him with Democrats.

In fact, if Clinton even looks like she's abetting an anti-choice line like this one, it might hurt her. Clearly, he was speaking about young women who do not wish to have babies. The point is that we need family planning tools, including abortion. I don't see what the problem is, unless you're just hoping that some backward people will take it incorrectly. Personally, I don't think that will happen. It will certainly prove to highlight Obama's pro-choice standpoint, which, if one recalls, is the position of most Democrats, and certainly most superdelegates!

[YOY]

84. You do realize this tactic is why many of us dislike Hillary, don't you?

n/t

[Erin Elizabeth]

94. Thank you, and amen.

[YOY]

99. It's all they have.

Kind of sad really...but we all knew this going in.

Apparently to voice otherwise is to be in cahoots with misogynists...that and to be a Repug but Repugs have been clamoring over each other to make sure it's Hillary they have to deal with in November.

They are sure they can beat her. She takes all the "wide-eyed optimism" (or "naivete" as they prefer it) out of the equation.

[Megahurtz]

86. He's got that exacly right.

Nobody should nose into a woman's life over Abortion. It the woman's business only.

Neocons butt the fuck out! :grr:

[Tatiana]

87. Single mother checking in here.

Had my child when I was a teenager. Let me tell you... those first six months with a cholicy baby that never slept, combined with trying to finish school, felt like honest to God punishment. Learned a valuable lesson: keep my legs closed until I was ready to tackle the financial and emotional consequences of a child and had a partner to help out.

But I initially thought Obama was referring to women who might have gotten pregnant as the result of rape or something like that. Being forced to carry such a child to term could be viewed as punishment...

[Rob Gregory Browne]

89. This has got to be one of the biggest stretches I've ever seen. nt

[mrJJ]

100. Religious Freedom & womens rights

snip

Furthermore, The Family takes credit for some of Clinton's rightward legislative tendencies, including her support for a law guaranteeing "religious freedom" in the workplace, such as for pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions and police officers who refuse to guard abortion clinics.

snip

Sharlet generously attributes Clinton's involvement to the under-appreciated depth of her religiosity, but he himself struggles to define The Family's theological underpinnings. The Family avoids the word Christian but worships Jesus, though not the Jesus who promised the earth to the "meek." They believe that, in mass societies, it's only the elites who matter, the political leaders who can build God's "dominion" on earth. Insofar as The Family has a consistent philosophy, it's all about power--cultivating it, building it and networking it together into ever-stronger units, or "cells." "We work with power where we can," Doug Coe has said, and "build new power where we can't."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/ehrenreich

[Megahurtz]

98. Flush It elixir!

This bogus Spin-Tactic of yours really stinks.

[Sadie5]

101. O will be blaming Hillary for his answer before the day is over

It's easier than admiting he is wrong and that he has no idea what he is talking about.

[Catherine Vincent]

102. Getting pregnant is punishment?

He could have used a better word than punishment.

[endarkenment]

104. Being forced to have a baby is punishment.

Being forced to remain pregnant is punishment.

Are you actually a woman? I know I'm not, but I understand what Obama was saying in the context he said it, and as a strong advocate for reproductive rights 'being punished with a baby' is one of the vilest things the theorcratic asshat republicans would like to do to women.

[Megahurtz]

131. No Shit!

WTF is wrong with these people? :crazy:

[Barack_America]

110. Being forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy is punishment.

How would you characterize denying a woman's access to legal, safe abortions?

[Oleladylib]

116. I think the best way to combat an unwanted pregnancy is to not get pregnant..IT's STUPIDITY

[Barack_America]

123. Nobody disagrees with that. But unplanned pregnancies DO happen...

And denying abortions to women who find themselves in that position IS punishing them.

How else would you characterize it?

[moriah]

129. Please read post #75.

I don't care to go into it all again, so go ahead and read that post.

Please don't paint too broad a brush here.

Sure, not getting pregnant in the first place is the BEST way. And if I could have avoided being raped I would have.

[Megahurtz]

132. O-M-G

:banghead:

[endarkenment]

103. Reads like you are propagating rightwing bullshit to me.

[Vinca]

105. The question was about abstinence education and Obama

said he was in favor of teaching both ethics and morals as well as contraception. He mentioned his own 2 daughters and said he would teach them what was right, but also about contraception because if one of them made a mistake they shouldn't be punished by having a baby or contracting an STD. He made perfect sense and I'm not getting the point of the outrage on this particular statement.

[jenmito]

106. I started a thread about this, how Andrea Mitchell ALSO brought this up, taking it out of context:

She was talking to Tim Roemer and said to him that Saturday during his town hall in PA, Obama said, in response to a question about abortion, "They (young women) shouldn't be punished with a baby." When Roemer responded that Obama cares deeply about women who are forced to make the difficult choice of having an abortion or not, etc., she asked him if that means Obama "misspoke." Roemer said no, that he knows Obama's position on abortion and he knows it's a difficult decision. I can't believe she pulled that one sentence out of his long, complete, thoughtful answer to that woman who was obviously "pro-life." And Roemer didn't see the town hall. It's like she was trying to "catch" Obama "misspeaking." I saw him answer that question. Talk about misprepresenting someone's position.

[elixir]

149. I think his words speak for him and stand alone. He could have used other ways to

phrase this statement w/out using punished. If Hillary had said this she would be roasted in endless flamebait posts.

[Forkboy]

113. I don't know what makes you so dumb, but it's working.

[Oleladylib]

114. Babies shouldn't be punished by the words of asshole politicians.

If he really said that I hope it follows him all the way out of the campaign.

[Megahurtz]

133. Women should not be punished

by ignorant people.:think:

*On EDIT*:

[Umbram]

115. Note to self - HRC supporters now attack Pro-choice positions. (nt)

[anonymous171]

121. On another thread they were attacking him by saying he was a Liberal.

It's getting to the point where I can't tell the RWer attacks from the Clinton supporter attacks.

[Umbram]

126. Consistency requires integrity. (nt)

[bobbert]

117. Where's the abortion comment?

It seems like the only thing he was talking about was condom use education. I think he wants to encourage the use of condoms and make sure his daughters use a condom every time they have sex rather than avoiding the conversation all together. You people are spinning this left and right. He as asked about abortion ETC, it was probably the etc. that he was referring to at that point.

[undeterred]

119. The highest category of women seeking abortions is

unmarried black women 18-24 earning less than $15,000 per year.

Under those circumstances I could not take care of myself much less myself and a child so it would be a punishment.

[BklynChick]

127. Andrea Mitchell has a huge bias towards Hillary, hardly a bastion of honestly

[Catherine Vincent]

130. I don't think so.

She doesn't like anyone except maybe Republicans.

[apocalypsehow]

135. Tell your candidate to pay her bills and quit acting like a deadbeat. That's a REAL "mess" that

needs cleaning.

[totodeinhere]

140. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill...

in your desperate attempt to grasp at any straw. We all know what Obama was talking about and there is nothing wrong with what he said unless you are a right wing anti abortion thug. (I'm not saying you are but only those who are would object to what Obama said.)

[zulchzulu]

141. OFMG!!! OBAMA THINK S BABYS ARE PUNUSHMINT11!!!!!

:sarcasm:

Wow. Expect a comment from Hillary Clinton on how babies are NOT punishment...

:crazy:

[NYCGirl]

142. The Christian Broadcasting Network agrees with you 100%!

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Punished_with_a_baby.html

Not that Obama was counting on the Evangelical vote, but CBN's David Brody is making much of this:

I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby.


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/348569.aspx

[Willo]

143. I'll extend why you guys are reaching and should stop on this topic

There are several threads popping up on this now, with constant changes to his words and intent.

I have an adult son in the Navy now. He and others may be called for ground duty in Iraq. But, not before he'll be given a whooping, whole two frigging months of training.

In my head now is the constant fear that any day, I may lose my eldest son, the one I gave birth to at the age of 16 to this BS war.

I almost lost him when he was 2 months old. For over a week he had a cold that wouldn't go away. He was too young to cough up or swallow the mucus so he would choke, sometimes until he turned purple. I was in the doctor's office three different times and the ER once. I was told, "you new mothers, babies sneeze when there's something in their noses and cough when something's in their throats. (I felt she was really saying "you young mothers") I was also told he was too young to give any medication. I was left to continue a horrible pattern of coughing and choking to death. I was afraid of what it might take to get him help.

One afternoon, well after having his bottle, he was in my arms and started coughing, then choking. The milk spewed out of his mouth in an arc, and he went limp. There was no question something was very wrong. I couldn't feel his heart beating. Something I was used to checking just for the pleasure of it. I told my girl friend to call the ambulance. I sat him on my lap, tapping and shaking him lightly, while calling his name, as if he were only asleep. He started moving again, almost as if all I did was wake him up.

The medics arrived, they were holding my son as I explained in detail what happened. Suddenly the medic says "his heart just stopped again, let's go". His heart stopped twice more on the way to the hospital and a few more times during his two-week stay.
They never could figure out why it would happen. My tiny little baby had tubes and monitors in and on his body. He caught whooping cough during that stay. But, he stopped coughing and choking and came home. Since he been in ICU, the nurses would respond immediately when he coughed. As young as he was, he learned to fake a cough if he felt he wasn't getting attention fast enough. It was amusing. Later, I began to believe that he had gone through a form of what is called crib-death syndrome.

He grew up healthy and strong. He is a fine young man. Good looking, honorable and I'm damn proud of him.
I was pretty mature at 16, smart, levelheaded. But, I was still only 16. I had a lot more growing and maturing of my own to do. The ultimate responsibilty I had upon his birth, was to raise him to be a responsible, adult man. There is no way, any 16 year old can say THAT is a responsiblity they should take on.

That I did it, does not change the fact that I did my son and myself a disservice by not doing the responsible thing, by PREPARING myself with the maturity and finances that a few more years would have afforded. I also created an extra burden upon my parents, and no doubt upon my siblings.

So, whatever I didn't have because of not preparing properly, was a PUNISHMENT upon him, me and a whole host of innocent people.

In your quest to discredit Obama, know there are true stories behind this one. My son, who from K-1 to now, hugs me with a force that takes my breath away, he would not appreciate what you're trying to do here.

[dogday]

147. My only Son went to Iraq last year. Returned home with

an injury, got married and is going to school and working... He hopes he will never have to go back.. His injury is such that scar tissue is preventing him from having 100% mobility, but you don't even notice it...

I know how you feel.. I lost a great deal of my hair that year my Son was in Iraq...

Best of luck to you and your family... My thoughts and prayers go with you and him..... :hug:

[Willo]

150. Thank you dogday. I really appreciate it.

I'm sorry your son was injured. Hopefully its enough to keep him home.

Hugs to you and yours.

[dogday]

161. I am with you, I think people are really losing perspective

about what is important in this world.. I hope Obama stays true to his statement that he will end Iraq.. That sways me a lot to his side, but I just can't commit... Well whoever comes out of this the Candidate will have my vote....

[Autumn]

156. Willo hug you son for me

My nephew did two tours in Iraq, came home from the first tour with an 80% hearing loss in his right ear,sent him back under stop loss for his second and he came home with muscle damage to his right hand and arm. I helped my sister raise him and he has been a joy to my DH and I. Children are never a punishment and I believe Senator Obama doesn't think so either. I think he was pointing out an STD is a punishment.

[Willo]

164. Thank you Autumn and a big hug to you and your family as well

Unfortunately there are way too many stories like this and worse, more to come.

[peace13]

163. Thanks for this.

Peace and love to you. Kim

[Lerkfish]

144. newsflash: Hillary supporters are context-impaired

you may now continue with your scheduled programming

[Seabiscuit]

155. Nothing but a clumsy choice of words. This minor gaffe, if that's what it is, will sink.

[Annces]

165. Wow that is a doozy

It shows very little sensitivity on the subject from so many angles.

[RememberWellstone]

166. I thought it was choice and not punishment?

I thought it was a private choice to have an abortion not a punishment to have children? I am confused by this reasoning. What if we did'nt have the legal right to abortion, then it would be considered hard not punishment.

[slinkerwink]

167. he was talking about sex education, not abortion. his full quote is below:

"This is a very difficult issue, and I understand sort of the passions on both sides of the issue," he said. "I have two precious daughters — they are miracles."

But politicians must trust women to make the right decisions for themselves, he said.

"This is an example where good people can disagree," the Illinois senator said. "The question then is, are there areas that we can agree to that everybody can get behind? We can all agree that we want to reduce teen pregnancies. We can all agree that we want to make sure that adoption is a viable option."

The exchange appeared to be prompted by Obama's earlier comments that he does not favor abstinence-only education, but rather comprehensive sexual education that includes information on abstinence and birth control.

"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

[yellowcanine]

168. I see nothing whatsoever wrong with that statement. More false outrage will be generated of course.

NO ONE is going to switch from voting for Obama because of this statement. OTOH people seeking to justify in their own little minds a vote against Obama - this could be enough for them. Well whoopie dee, Obama never will have their vote anyway.

[sueragingroz]

169. K & R

[jefferson_dem]

172. Same here.

To show how fucked-up you Hillary followers are.

:kick:

[Mike03]

170. It won't be an issue for anyone with two functioning neurons left.

Everyone knows what he was saying.

[TZ]

171. Stoooopid

Like the Falwell pro-lifers are gonna vote for Obama..

[walldude]

174. We got the anti-baby vote!! KICK ASS!!

:rofl:

[merh]

175. here is an OP to consider

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5334347

[Bluerthanblue]

176. context is EVERYTHING- and truth is often

uncomfortable.

"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

This statement shows exactly the context Obama was speaking about. That an UN-INFORMED teen whose parents have sheltered them from knowing what SAFE SEX is all about, leave the kids vulnerable to unwanted, unplanned pregnancies, and WORSE- to HIV and other diseases.

The uncomfortable truth is that many people DO believe that bearing a child as a result of teen sex, is a kind of :"that'll teach you" "hey, you made your bed" consequence/punishment. Not a very responsible one from the perspective of the teen who has been put in the situation IN PART because of the lack of adequate education about sex- or for the baby, who is nothing more than an innocent bystander, and often likely victim.

I think what Obama said was absolutely right on particularly in that he personalized it with reference to his own beloved daughters.

People will pick apart anything he says looking to derail him- Just as your OP is trying to do.

But it won't work.

You'll find that out before too long.


peace~

[LulaMay]

177. I guess we know why he needs David Axelrod. Yikes.

[DemBones DemBones]

178. Worse, he has voted for infanticide

by voting against laws to save the lives of babies born alive after an abortion.

Even NARAL doesn't object to legislation aimed at saving these babies.

Obama thinks that babies who are born alive after an abortion should be killed outright or tossed in the medical waste bin to die of cold and starvation. We treat unwanted animals far more humanely.

Once a baby is born, killing it is murder and it should be illegal. Medical personnel should be required to care for these babies.

The woman is no longer pregnant, she's gotten what she wanted and does not have to take the baby to raise, but the baby deserves to live.

[JayFredMuggs]

179. First, do you have a link to your outrageous statement?

And when you find a link, please read it fully before posting lies.