Please explain exactly what is going to happen to make her the nominee.

[IDemo]

Look. I know that Obama has said Hillary should remain in the race. Of course he doesn't want to alienate her followers. But that does not mean he also doesn't have a very clear picture of the reality: barring a Hindenberg-like collapse of his campaign, he is going to win the nomination.

So what is it going to be, Hillarians? Will there be a sudden tidal wave of support for her in the remaining primaries, along with the unquestioned seating of FL/MI delegates, along with the successful recruitment of Obama's pledged delegates, along with a reversal of Obama's super delegate surge, along with another contrived non-scandal ala 'Pastorgate'?

Which factor(s) do you still hold on to that makes you seriously believe there will be a win for Hillary, or at least a deadlocked convention?

[enki23]

1. hillary and her backers will do all they can to destroy obama

and to tear the shit out of the democratic party in the process. presuming that's successful, she'll try again for the nomination in 2012, after four years of "i tried to save you all from yourselves" bullshit. that seems to be the only viable plan for her at this point.

sorry hillary backers. after her vow to try to take it all the way to the convention, by any means possible, she doesn't merit even a modicum of respect anymore. i don't want to see her further humiliated in public the way some do, but i want to see her quietly step the fuck down now before she does further damage to our chances in november.

[IDemo]

2. But are her followers content with that scenario?

I find it hard to believe they would actually prefer a continuation of BushMerika for another 4 years, simply to give Hillary another shot in 2012. At the rate they are going, there may not be anything left of the nation by then to lead.

[enki23]

3. some seem to be, yes. but i'd imagine most aren't.

thing is, they are unlikely to believe that *is* her plan, no matter ho clear it might become (assuming, of course, that's the direction she actually takes). cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing. hillary could come out and say that was her plan, and a good number of them wouldn't believe it. *shrug*

[IDemo]

6. And meanwhile, we have McCain, who doesn't know an al Qaedan from a condom

Gaining MSM headlines like this:

The World According to John McCain

He's both the consummate pragmatist and a zealous crusader for causes he feels just.

[Lerkfish]

7. I can only surmise from observation

that a mccain presidency is preferable to the clinton campaign than an Obama presidency.
Where that leaves her supporters, I don't know.
But certainly it leaves the democratic party, obviously not a priority or concern of the Clintons, in a less optimal state than it would have been if she'd graciously dropped out after losing eleven in a row contests.

Apparently, the clintons will not drop out, however, in spite of encouragements to do so from other party members, both (I presume) in private and now very publicly.
What this indicates to me is that politically, the clintons view themselves as more important than the party -- reminiscent of Holy Joe Lieberman's rejection of the democratic party to form his own bogus merkin party. Ultimately, even though Clinton CAN stay in the race until the convention, and even though she MAY win, albeit only through shenanigans, threats and overt cheating, even IF she were to steal the nomination, the party itself will have ONCE AGAIN, snatched defeat from the jaws of pure victory.

If this occurs, we need to evaluate what benefit, or harm, the DLC has in relation to the democratic party. Two of its largest and most poweful members, Joe Lieberman and the Clintons, have demonstrated their outright disdain for the party. They have demonstrated that they feel the party should be loyal to them, instead of vice versa. They've demonstrated they feel they are the messiahs and anyone who dares to be "disloyal" is publicly flogged LITERALLY as Judas Iscariot.

This is coming from Al From, Carville, and other DLC strategists and leaders. We need to examine whether any party can survive an infestation of any group that holds the party hostage and nominally dispensible.

[frogcycle]

4. not offering an explanation but you said it yourself

"barring a Hindenberg-like collapse of his campaign"

if - and this is a big (unsubstantiated) if - there is something "out there" that will make him unelectable - his "Willie Horton" if you will (and Rev Wright most assuredly is NOT it) and it surfaces, and his support goes the way Deans did over a trumped-up "scream," then all bets are off.

I kind of like an insurance policy. If (another big "if) the remaining campaign could be positive, a horserace in which the jockeys are urging on their horse but not throwing obstacles in the path of the other, then that would be healthy for the end game against McCain.

Arguing that the shit-flinging should stop, right fucking now, is fine, and I support it. Arguing that she should quit and anoint him is another matter. I don't think Edwards or Biden should have quit. Money made it necessary, but that is wrong.

Edit: note my sig line - I don't "support" either one. Just making an observation.

[IDemo]

11. She has unfortunately signaled her willingness for a Hindenberg

I think all they have going now is fervently wishing for (or actively seeking out) another Rezko or Wright.

[frogcycle]

12. yes, unfortunately

I'd have no problem with continuing in order to keep the door open (a tiny crack) but really don't like the "win" at all costs approach. It is not a fucking GAME! Winning isn't everyfuckingthing.

[saltpoint]

5. No practical analysis of the race equals a Hillary nomination.

All indications suggest that Barack Obama will take the stage in Denver. He's run a convincingly superior campaign.

What remains is to what extent the media, both mainstream cable news and daily newspapers, plus the more detailed analyses from NewsHour, The Nation, The Progressive, etc. will offer in terms of framing Sen. Clinton's desperate post-Feb. 5th temper-tantrum. The MSM likes a dogfight in the alley -- it's a ratings boon -- but most folks who know U.S. political history know that Hillary Clinton is finished as a presidential candidate.

Her campaign is strapped with negatives. Reports suggest that cash flow could be a problem. Analysis has already suggested that her consultants and campaign staff are a problem -- a big problem. Her husband is at once her claim to international name recognition and the reason she lost South Carolina by 95 trillion votes. He hasn't been much help anywhere else either, actually, and his own reputation appears tarnished owing to his alignment with her poorly managed campaign.

Surrogates are suppoed to rally the faithful generally and assist in a candidate's standing among undecideds especially, and Billy Shaheen, Geraldine Ferraro, and others have failed at both goals, actually sending the Hillary Clinton profile into race-baiting territory, not an especially practical political strategy when your chief opponent for the nomination is Afro-American. She lost virtually all demographic groups in the Wisconsin primary except corporate hacks and angry Zell Miller fans.

The stench of entitlement follows Hillary Clinton everywhere she goes. Coy, coquette-ish claptrap does, too, often crossing the border into plain dishonesty. Knowing full well what church Obama belongs to, Mrs. Clinton said she didn't think he was a Muslim, "as far as I know." What shitwork.

The praise of John McCain by both Hillary and her increasingly negligible husband did not sit well with many Democrats who are working anonymously with decidedely smaller budgets than she started out with to elect Democratic candidates in many local and state races.

Hillary Clinton has run one of the most arrogant, divisive, and incompetent political campaigns in modern memory.

[wileedog]

9. I dont think this can be over-stressed

"Hillary Clinton has run one of the most arrogant, divisive, and incompetent political campaigns in modern memory."

Keep in mind 4 months ago she had every advantage in the world. Up 30 in the polls, awash with cash, the MSM in her back pocket touting her inevitability.

You'd have to catastrophically clustereff your way through 3 months of primaries to actually lose this election to a guy who many were curious why he was even running last year at this time.

And that is exactly what she did. Having no plan after Super Tuesday is breathtaking in its incompetence, and as many have said is comparable to Bush in Iraq being completely flummoxed when we weren't greeted with flowers and candy in the streets. Her decision to go negative, if it doesn't work (and returns so far are pretty crappy) may actually ruin her future with the party forever, and tarnish her husbands legacy in the process.

THe Hillary fans like to point out "electability" in the GE as the key reason the SDs should overthrow the PDs and install her over Obama. I hope the SDs realize the same campaign staffers and consultants and advisors who managed to lose one of the most 'sure thing' elections in history are going to be the same one's running the GE.

And that might be the only way a bufoon like McCain can win. There are no Superdelegates in the GE to hand her an election she has lost.

[saltpoint]

10. Hi, wileedog, and yes -- last year this time no one thought Barack Obama

represented a likely contender. His instincts appear to be far advanced of his chronological years, and he seems to be on track for the History textbooks of the next generation.

Agree with you also that Mrs. Clinton has sqaundered every advantage. If Joe Biden or Chris Dodd or Bill Richardson had the name rec and the bank account of Hillary Clinton just a few months ago, their names might be in more headlines this afternoon. What she lost was a titanic lead and a huge chunk of dough, and then post Feb. 5th, she just turned mean.

It's been a bit ugly, and the longer she stays in the worse it's likely to get.

[4themind]

22. OP worthy -nt

[Cha]

23. Good analysis, wileedog and

Welcome to the ol DU.

[Life Long Dem]

8. I asked a Hillary supporter a similar question.

I asked, Is Hillary going to catch Obama in delegate count? They answered "probably not." But added - "If photos are produced of Obama eating babies, it will be a good thing that she's still in the race."

Odds of that seem less than the given 12% chance of her winning.

[AllentownJake]

13. She's running "compartitive" adds in PA

With the stupid red phone at 3 am line. She's up by 12 points and she's going negative. The only reason to do that is to damage him here for the GE.

[Johnny__Motown]

14. The Clouds Will Part, A Beam Of Light Will Shine Down and Celestial Choirs Will Sing

or not

[CK_John]

15. Cheney will bomb Iran in early April and everything will change. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

16. There is no scenario - unless Obama is shown on tape in a menage a trois with W & Laura Bush.

n/t.

[Jersey Devil]

17. Oh, the humanity!

You made me spit my coffee, dammit! :rofl: :rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

19. I'd still rather have Obama.

[BlooInBloo]

18. I hope she stays in the race forever. No matter how long ago the race ended. Run Clinton, RUN!

[stevenleser]

20. K&R

The important point is that there is no path to the Presidency for Hillary. No way does she beat McCain after Bosnia/NAFTA/Northern Ireland.

[FyurFly]

21. The release of a video

of Jeremiah Wright presenting Louis Farrakhan with an award and Senator Obama is visible in the audience. You heard it here first folks.